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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

JoeOtterbein

(7,702 posts)
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:59 AM Jan 2020

The coming clash between Bernie and Biden

Politico

The former vice president’s record on Social Security is about to be torn open by Sanders.

By MARC CAPUTO and HOLLY OTTERBEIN

01/13/2020 07:02 PM EST

Bernie Sanders’ first major tangle with Joe Biden — over a 2010 deal that Biden struck with Republicans that liberals believed threatened Social Security — helped fuel his national rise.

Now Sanders is set to reprise that clash Tuesday night on the debate stage, where the Vermont senator is preparing to lay into Biden over his record on Social Security.

For the past week, Sanders and his campaign have telegraphed his attack over the former vice president’s long-standing record entertaining cuts to the program that are anathema to progressives and many mainstream Democrats.

Sanders’ speechwriter and senior adviser David Sirota said Tuesday will be time for Biden to answer hard questions about his past onstage.

“Joe Biden has repeatedly worked to cut Social Security, and has never offered up a good explanation for that crusade. His Social Security record is not only atrocious on a policy level, it is an enormous political vulnerability in both a primary and a general election,” Sirota said. “Bernie Sanders has exactly the opposite record — he’s fought those cuts and fought to expand Social Security, and that is a contrast Democratic voters deserve to know.”

snip


more to get upset, or not, about at link
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The coming clash between Bernie and Biden (Original Post) JoeOtterbein Jan 2020 OP
Sanders will find out what happens to candidates who go after Biden. highplainsdem Jan 2020 #1
Can we say True Blue American Jan 2020 #3
NOT just like everyone else. Cuthbert Allgood Jan 2020 #22
Yeah...... Bernie, THE INDEPENDENT. Joe is much love and respected. Sanders, not so much. trueblue2007 Jan 2020 #31
.... Skidmore Jan 2020 #2
.... I hate to say I told ya so.... Happy Hoosier Jan 2020 #4
David Sirota is the true face of this campaign. The Valley Below Jan 2020 #5
"We would not seek a battle as we are. Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it." LanternWaste Jan 2020 #6
Sanders and his campaign are on full attack mode. TidalWave46 Jan 2020 #7
Seems to be a routine - Biden, Buttigieg, Warren, Biden, etc. George II Jan 2020 #10
only problem is.... getagrip_already Jan 2020 #8
Sirota and Gray have been tweeting about this almost hourly for the last three or four days... George II Jan 2020 #9
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2020 #11
If he's been on tape wanting to cut those programs, surely you can tell us where to find them.... George II Jan 2020 #13
A link, mayhaps? nt Codeine Jan 2020 #19
Really? On tape? MineralMan Jan 2020 #20
Thats been debunked so many times, I question your intent in repeating it. marble falls Jan 2020 #21
BS is WRONG.. BS needs to talk about his OWN Cha Jan 2020 #30
This is a telling paragraph Uncle Joe Jan 2020 #12
In the English language, "freezing" is entirely different from "cutting". Plus.... George II Jan 2020 #14
Even Reagan and some Republicans thought it was cutting social security. Uncle Joe Jan 2020 #15
No it isn't, CUTTING is cutting! As I said, there was a lot more to it than that AND the freeze.... George II Jan 2020 #17
Yes it is, inflation ranged from 3.9% to 4.8% in 1984 Uncle Joe Jan 2020 #35
Suit yourself but that story line against Biden isn't making it out there in the real world. George II Jan 2020 #36
Actually prescription drugs which most seniors rely on had even higher inflation Uncle Joe Jan 2020 #37
Yes, and under the REAL Medicare (not some plan that co-opts the name) most of those.... George II Jan 2020 #38
Politico is lying. The GOP rejected it because it also froze military spending. Drunken Irishman Jan 2020 #16
Oh c'mon man! Surely you don't want to introduce unfiltered FACTS into this discussion, do you? George II Jan 2020 #18
LOL!! peggysue2 Jan 2020 #23
I would put Biden's overall record in Washington up against Sanders' every day of the week.... George II Jan 2020 #24
As would I, George peggysue2 Jan 2020 #25
I usually DVR True Blue American Jan 2020 #27
Bidens 8 years True Blue American Jan 2020 #26
We can even look at their records back in their 30s..... George II Jan 2020 #34
Your daughter is a writer for Politico? saidsimplesimon Jan 2020 #28
You are welcome! JoeOtterbein Jan 2020 #39
Jill Stein voter, David Sirota. Hassler Jan 2020 #29
Who's fomenting discord now? OilemFirchen Jan 2020 #32
Biden has a long long record Buzz cook Jan 2020 #33
Another divisive thread wrapped up in a shill's article NYMinute Jan 2020 #40
 

highplainsdem

(49,060 posts)
1. Sanders will find out what happens to candidates who go after Biden.
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:01 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,995 posts)
3. Can we say
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:09 AM
Jan 2020

Kamala Harris?

John Kerry is out there backing why Biden voted. Just like everyone else. They did not think Bush was a liar after he promised war would be a last resort.

Fool me once,uh,er, you can’t fool me twice, or something like that!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,995 posts)
22. NOT just like everyone else.
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 04:29 PM
Jan 2020

Many people knew Bush was a liar.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

trueblue2007

(17,243 posts)
31. Yeah...... Bernie, THE INDEPENDENT. Joe is much love and respected. Sanders, not so much.
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:39 PM
Jan 2020

In my opinion, Joe as FAR MORE GOING FOR HIM. BS has less foreign policy experience. Joe has the Respect of the world leaders. Joe has stood on THE WORLD STAGE .... Bernie hasn't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Happy Hoosier

(7,446 posts)
4. .... I hate to say I told ya so....
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:10 AM
Jan 2020

... but I told ya so.

A certain candidate is willing to do anything, apparently, to rip down Democratic candidates.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
5. David Sirota is the true face of this campaign.
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:14 AM
Jan 2020

Burning bridges. Scorching earth.

Appalling.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
6. "We would not seek a battle as we are. Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it."
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:24 AM
Jan 2020

(Henry V: Act 3 Scene 6)

Not upset (or not) as much as simply bemused by the melodramatic pretense of an upcoming clash.

I get it... it's been a really bad month for Sanders so far, and you guys gotta do what you guys gotta do.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TidalWave46

(2,061 posts)
7. Sanders and his campaign are on full attack mode.
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:27 AM
Jan 2020

From Trump to the media to progressives.

Should make for a great debate as the record is set straight and Sanders is put in his place.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
10. Seems to be a routine - Biden, Buttigieg, Warren, Biden, etc.
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:36 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

getagrip_already

(14,911 posts)
8. only problem is....
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:28 AM
Jan 2020

Joe seems to only be running against trump. He isn't taking of bernies bait, and I do believe it is driving bernie a bit nuts.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
9. Sirota and Gray have been tweeting about this almost hourly for the last three or four days...
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 11:29 AM
Jan 2020

...and it's totally misrepresenting what Biden said.

Biden has NEVER worked to cut Social Security, they're twisting his words.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to JoeOtterbein (Original post)

 

George II

(67,782 posts)
13. If he's been on tape wanting to cut those programs, surely you can tell us where to find them....
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 01:29 PM
Jan 2020

....the fact is he never said it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
19. A link, mayhaps? nt
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 02:18 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MineralMan

(146,339 posts)
20. Really? On tape?
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 04:00 PM
Jan 2020

So, no doubt you have a link to corroborate that. See, we don't know you yet, so you'll have to help us trust you by posting links and like that for your statements about Biden.

I'll just wait here, OK?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

marble falls

(57,403 posts)
21. Thats been debunked so many times, I question your intent in repeating it.
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 04:11 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(297,877 posts)
30. BS is WRONG.. BS needs to talk about his OWN
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:33 PM
Jan 2020
"Problematic Record".. I dare him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Uncle Joe

(58,470 posts)
12. This is a telling paragraph
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 12:09 PM
Jan 2020


(snip)

Biden’s earliest forays into Social Security cuts happened in 1984, when congressional concerns over Reagan-era deficits grew and he co-sponsored a failed proposal with Republicans to freeze spending, including cost-of-living adjustments for Social Security, which would have had the effect of a financial cut for recipients and a savings for government. Reagan and the Senate Republican leadership opposed it, saying it contained serious cuts to Social Security.

(snip)

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/13/bernie-sanders-joe-biden-clash-2020-098433






Thanks for the thread JoeOtterbein.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
14. In the English language, "freezing" is entirely different from "cutting". Plus....
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 01:40 PM
Jan 2020

...that paragraph and the article gloss over and misrepresent the political dynamics of the 1984 (36 YEARS ago, btw) budget debates in Congress.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Uncle Joe

(58,470 posts)
15. Even Reagan and some Republicans thought it was cutting social security.
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 01:42 PM
Jan 2020

Freezing benefits without freezing inflation is a cut..period.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
17. No it isn't, CUTTING is cutting! As I said, there was a lot more to it than that AND the freeze....
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 02:12 PM
Jan 2020

...was going to be temporary.

So, what was Sanders doing in 1984 when Biden was debating on the floor of the Senate?

As I also said, one needs to really look into what was going on in DC in 1984 and the political/budget dynamics at the the time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Uncle Joe

(58,470 posts)
35. Yes it is, inflation ranged from 3.9% to 4.8% in 1984
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:12 PM
Jan 2020

anyone having their benefits frozen was taking a pay cut.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
36. Suit yourself but that story line against Biden isn't making it out there in the real world.
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:19 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Uncle Joe

(58,470 posts)
37. Actually prescription drugs which most seniors rely on had even higher inflation
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:50 PM
Jan 2020

in the real world.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
38. Yes, and under the REAL Medicare (not some plan that co-opts the name) most of those....
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 06:59 PM
Jan 2020

....prescriptions drugs have co-pays of $2.00 or even less!

We take four for our blood pressure and cholesterol. We pay $6, $6, $6, and $5.40 for 3-month supplies.

Last week we had to go to an Urgent Care facility for my wife. Her examination cost $10 and 10-day supply of antibiotic cost $10.

AND OUR TAXES HAVEN'T GONE UP in years!!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
16. Politico is lying. The GOP rejected it because it also froze military spending.
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 01:54 PM
Jan 2020
The vote today reflected the difficult issues raised by the freeze amendment. Some conservatives supported it despite its impact on military affairs, saying they wanted to reduce the deficit. But other conservatives said they could not support the military freeze, which would be strongly opposed by the President anyway.


https://www.nytimes.com/1984/05/03/us/senators-reject-spending-freeze.html
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
18. Oh c'mon man! Surely you don't want to introduce unfiltered FACTS into this discussion, do you?
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 02:14 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

peggysue2

(10,844 posts)
23. LOL!!
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 04:34 PM
Jan 2020

Unfiltered facts. The audacity of some posters to try to unravel the truth, rather than playing the ole disinformation tune.

If the Senator from Vermont wants to dump on Biden? Bring it on. Better candidates than Bernie have used the same strategy and reaped the whirlwind. So, go for it!

But from where I sit? This whole twitter campaign against opponents has the whiff of desperation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
24. I would put Biden's overall record in Washington up against Sanders' every day of the week....
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 04:39 PM
Jan 2020

...I say OVERALL record, not cherry-picked by David Sirota.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

peggysue2

(10,844 posts)
25. As would I, George
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:05 PM
Jan 2020

John Kerry made some interesting comments about these Biden attacks coming out of the Sanders' campaign. He said it's because Sanders simply cannot compete with Joe Biden's experience and skillset of working across the aisle, of getting things actually accomplished and particularly Biden's knowledge and familiarity in the foreign policy realm. Since the Iran dustup, foreign policy has now become a thing, an area around which Sanders is weak. So, the strategy is to attempt to bruise the record--be it Biden's or Warren's--take their strengths and try to turn them into weaknesses while hoping voters don't notice Bernie's own shortcomings.

Personally? I'm weary as weary can be of Bernie Sanders' schtick. The grumpy old man approach is not attractive and these ramped up attacks are even less so.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,995 posts)
27. I usually DVR
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:08 PM
Jan 2020

The debates as I am at the Y pool at 6 AM. Intend to watch this one live.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,995 posts)
26. Bidens 8 years
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:05 PM
Jan 2020

As VP prove his record.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
34. We can even look at their records back in their 30s.....
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:59 PM
Jan 2020

Joe Biden was serving in the Senate and was commuting to Wilmington almost every night to care for his two critically injured son as a single parent.

The other guy?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
28. Your daughter is a writer for Politico?
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:13 PM
Jan 2020

Thank you for sharing her articles with us.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JoeOtterbein

(7,702 posts)
39. You are welcome!
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:03 PM
Jan 2020

Thanks for posting!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hassler

(3,394 posts)
29. Jill Stein voter, David Sirota.
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:33 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
32. Who's fomenting discord now?
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:48 PM
Jan 2020

David Sirota, Marc Caputo or Holly Otterbein?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Buzz cook

(2,474 posts)
33. Biden has a long long record
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 05:51 PM
Jan 2020

Some of it is questionable. I haven't heard it questioned in the media.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NYMinute

(3,256 posts)
40. Another divisive thread wrapped up in a shill's article
Tue Jan 14, 2020, 07:05 PM
Jan 2020

I thought reporters were supposed to be objective and unbiased. Here they are openly propagandizing a non-issue.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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