Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumMiami Herald: Democratic hopeful Bernie Sanders is worse than Trump on U.S. trade with Mexico
Trump has built his Presidency around scapegoating Mexican immigrants and trade, yet Bernie wants to double down on Trump's isolationsionism. Also, like Trump, Bernie has historically been very critical of NATO.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/andres-oppenheimer/article239315183.html
During Tuesdays Democratic presidential primary debate, Sanders a front-runner in the polls for the Feb. 3 Iowa caucuses lashed out against the newly negotiated U.S.-Mexico-Canada North American free-trade agreement, USMCA. The trade deal could be ratified by the U.S. Senate this week.
This deal will result in the continuation of the loss of hundreds of thousands of good-paying jobs as a result of outsourcing, Sanders said. He added that, We have forced American workers to compete against people in Mexico, in China, elsewhere, who earn starvation wages, a dollar or two dollars an hour.
Sanders claims about USMCA, the Trump-negotiated updated version of the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) are wrong. His assertion that large numbers of U.S. jobs would be lost are as misguided as were Trumps earlier complaints about NAFTA, and as misleading as Trumps absurd claims that most undocumented immigrants from Mexico are criminals and rapists.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
getagrip_already
(14,891 posts)Oh nose, not criticism! this won't end well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TheRealNorth
(9,500 posts)The Biden bros are 10× worse here.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
David__77
(23,558 posts)Different sites, different rules.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
David__77
(23,558 posts)...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
sandensea
(21,688 posts)As opposed to Cheeto, whose Latin America policy of late is basically limited to ingratiating himself to Brazil's Bolsonazi.
Drumpf loves the idea of political prisoners, corrupt privatizations, and deforestation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)<snip>
"In 2007, Sen. Bernie Sanders was working overtime to kill Ted Kennedys immigration reform bill. As part of his effort, he appeared on then-CNN host Lou Dobbs program for an interview.
Appearing above a graphic reading FIGHTING AMNESTY, Sen. Sanders tells Dobbs that pro-reform Senators are selling out American workers. In fact, they are selling out our entire country.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/6/1480425/-Watch-Bernie-Sanders-Agree-with-Lou-Dobbs-Illegal-Aliens-Rant
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)...because he did say the same thing.
https://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/08/dont-believe-what-jeff-sessions-said-about-jobs-and-immigrants/
While announcing President Donald Trumps decision to end the Deferred Action for Child Arrivals program, which protects undocumented immigrants from deportation if they arrived as children, Attorney General Jeff Sessions made a startling and blatantly incorrect claim:
[The DACA program] denied jobs to hundreds of thousands of Americans by allowing those same jobs to go to illegal aliens.
Hundreds of thousands? How did Sessions arrive at this number? It appears that he simply counted the number of adult Dreamers, as the programs beneficiaries are known, and assumed that each had denied a job to an American.
Thats terrible economics. Its a classic application of a well-known fallacy called the Lump of Labor the idea that there are a fixed number of jobs in the world, and those jobs get divvied up among people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Horseshoe theory anyone?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to TomCADem (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
NNadir
(33,574 posts)...I would be very careful of using the term "worse than Trump" on anything.
Senator Sanders is a fool, and would be a total disaster for the environment at precisely the time it is collapsing, but I very much doubt that he is "worse than Trump" on anything.
Again, I have no use for Sanders, but if he is ignorant, he is not more ignorant than Trump, if he is dogmatic and simplistic, he is not more so than Trump.
If forced to do so, I would vote for Senator Sanders since there is clearly a case of "lesser than two evils."
Since Trump is the most evil, ignorant, sexist and racist (at least post-slavery) President in US history, the use of "worse than Trump" in any context is not really a worthy attack.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wiley
(2,921 posts)but he would never get elected.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)...than Trump has been threatening trade wars with Mexico and China, yet Bernie Sanders is the only candidate that has bragged about going even further than Trump with respect to protectionism. Of course, he has not been specific, just saying that he would be more "rational."
Put another way, has there ever been any trade deal that Bernie supported? The answer is no. Bernie has always postured on the issue of trade and scapegoated immigration and trade as a cause of the problems faced by American workers. He has painted himself into a corner on the issue.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NNadir
(33,574 posts)...their parents, the parents being isolated themselves on grounds that are purely racist.
There are, I think, a hell of a lot of things more important than trade deals.
Children in cages, for me, would be one of those.
Senator Sanders is a fool; and he is far more ignorant than any other mainstream candidate, but he is not a Nazi.
OK?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)...that has overwhelming bipartisan support. Trump has flirted with shutting down the U.S. Mexico border, yet even he has indicated that he would support the trade agreement. With Bernie, part of his brand it to oppose trade agreements. It is pure isolationism.
You focus on the Trump's cruelty, which is indeed a difference. But in terms of pure ideological opposition to any type of trade agreement, Bernie goes even further than Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NNadir
(33,574 posts)...would be to stop calling him by his familiar first name.
The frequency by which one calls former VP Biden, "Joey," or Mr. Yang "Andy" is far lower than the rote evocation of Senator Sanders as "Bernie." The familiarity is suggestive of someone who is your friend, someone you'd invite into your home.
Now, I would vote for Senator Sanders were he the nominee, which I really hope won't happen, but if forced to do so, I would do it weeping for my country and for the planet. I certainly would not invite Senator Sanders into my home; I wouldn't have a beer with him; I would simply, as I am doing now, hope for better times.
You're offended by Senator Sanders' views on trade and I'm offended by his climate rhetoric, which we go further toward killing the planet and will do so faster than is currently underway, and what is underway is an all time record for the destruction of the planetary atmosphere.
But for me, he's not "worse than Trump" on the issue most important to me, climate change. He is not more uneducated than Trump.
I fully concede that Senator Sanders views on trade are repulsive, or would be so in normal times. But again, I very much doubt that his views on trade with Mexico would extend to putting people in cages, children in fact. These are not normal times.
Senator Sanders may be childish in his economic views, but cannot be more childish than Trump. Senator Sanders may have contempt for the poor in the third world that we find repulsive, but it is not more repulsive than Trump's views, particularly since Trump's views are based almost entirely on virulent racism, where Sanders views are just based on simplistic thinking and ignorance.
There is a difference, I think.
If you cannot abide my remarks, let's just agree to disagree.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,454 posts)While his populous message may sound good to some, I have to wonder if he really understands the complexities involved
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)As a Floridian, I need to explain an important bloc to my fellow DUers, South Florida's right-leaning international voters. A large swath of them are expatriates from failed states, such as Argentina and Cuba and know far less than they claim.
Oppenheimer's position that NAFTA2.0 will reduce job losses for the American economy is a total non sequitur when we take into account the simple fact that this revised trade agreement includes only modest changes.
Sanders', Harris', Booker's and Schumer's opposition on climate grounds are further proof.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and it's nothing new. It's not the rabid version of RW populist movements, also of course, definitely a nationalist-lite version in comparison.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oasis
(49,429 posts)a rough ride in his presidency, should he make it through the general election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Wawannabe
(5,685 posts)Is this a kneecap on Bernie by a major newspaper and is it recent?
Seriously. Its high time to OUT bernie. He is not the right person to represent the Democrats.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)shoring up Mexico and other southern countries. It will be good for both of us. This "Economic Patriotism" -- as Warren euphemistically calls it -- is nothing but America First and Nationalism.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stonecutter357
(12,698 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden