Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumTrump's Racist Demagoguery Only Works, Says Sanders, Because Too Many Americans Feel Establishment
Has 'Failed Them'
(snip)
"What about [divisiveness] is that Trump is a symptom of a widespread problem?" asked Staples. "I mean, how do you address that? The problem exists whether Trump is president or not is what I'm saying."
"How did Trump become president?" Sanders said. "I think it speaks to something that I talk about a lot and that is the fact that...tens and tens of millions of Americans feel that the political establishment, Republican and Democrat, have failed them. Maybe the New York Times has failed them, too."
Link to tweet
(snip)
Sanders's full comments on offering voters an alternative to Trump and the political establishment were left out of the Times's video:
Now, I think, you raised the question, let me take it a step further. You haven't asked me, I suppose it's somewhere on your list, why I think I'm the strongest candidate to beat Trump... And that is that there is a hard-core support for Trump, which I'm not going to be able to get through. You're right. It is racist. It is sexist. I run into that. It's hard to believe the attitude toward women in some parts of the country. You really would have a hard time to believe it. We're back into the 18th century in some these places. It is homophobic. It is anti-immigrant. Do I think I'm going to win those people over? Nah, no way. But do I think we can get a sliver? I can't tell you how much, 3%, 5%, 8%, of people who voted for Trump because he said, "I am a different type of Republican. I'm not going to cut Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security. I'm going to have trade policies that work for workers. We're not going to be shutting down plants in America."
(snip)
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/01/17/trumps-racist-demagoguery-only-works-says-sanders-because-too-many-americans-feel
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)How about LGBTQ people and access to restrooms - did the Democratic establishment "fail them" too?
Maybe if one is not a woman, protections that the Democratic "establishment" preserved for their reproductive rights wouldn't really be on their radar.
I have heard someone dismiss the Black Congressional Caucus, the Human Rights Campaign and Planned Parenthood as "the political Establishment" and they sure aren't Republican.
Are they truly to blame for Trump's demogaguery?
But taking that "establishment" earned money and marketing doesn't "fail" a candidate planning to run in an "establishment" Primary, apparently.
.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)that are uninsured or under-insured, just write them off because incremental progress was made.
Go ahead and write off approximately 30,000 American deaths every year and hundreds of thousands of annual medical related bankruptcies because progress was made.
Write off the fact that African American women are over three times as likely to die in childbirth than white women because progress was made with the ACA.
While you're at it write off any logical reason that a for profit "health" insurance industry with no purpose other than to make blood money and find reasons to deny coverage should even exist.
Why on earth should such a vampire industry with not only no redeeming value but literally costing our nation in blood and treasure be institutionalized by We the People's government?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)You have no response to my points, and they clearly got under your skin.
Bold text even!
You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that there was a choice between the ACA and MFA.
There was a choice between the ACA and nothing.
But I guess the lives all those people with pre-existing conditions that got care, and begged the GOP not to repeal it, or they would die aren't really as important as purity.
Ted Kennedy learned that hard way what happens when you make perfect the enemy of the good. Bernie apparently had no interest in learning from Kennedy's experience with "single payer or bust" back in 1971, when Bernie was still in rural Vermont.
Here's some history on Single Payer for you, not that it will make any difference, but I'll put it in bolded text:
We might actually have something much closer to what Canada has now, if Ted Kennedy and the Democrats hadn't walked away from making a deal (because Democrats wanted single payer or nothing) with Nixon in the 70's, who was proposing something to the left of the ACA.
Ted Kennedy has said that not making a deal then was one of the biggest regrets of his political career.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/when-kennedy-nearly-achie_n_269935
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)furthermore people covered by the ACA are still getting screwed that's my bolded point which you couldn't bring yourself to address.
There is a choice for Medicare for All now, the only question is will the American People be satisfied with crumbs when they could have the whole pie?
On the other hand you did post a Monty Python video, so you have that going for you.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)When one is without an actual argument for the lives of those who were saved by the ACA, of which the alternative to was 'nothing' not MFA, one casts about for an accusation that takes the attention away from one's faults in one's arguments.
Do go on. There aren't any facts that will defend your misapprehension that there was a Bernie approved alternative for those saved by the ACA, and that anyone who points that out is someone is somehow celebrating or dismissing the deaths of others.
There I put it in bold, so it's more factual, yes?
I hope that if you got the point of the sketch, you learn something and aren't too offended. But your rather sanguine response indicates otherwise.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)for the very existence of the for profit "health" insurance industry, that's your evasion.
The life boats on the Titanic were great, saved many lives and no doubt the people were thankful but I believe the overwhelming majority would've preferred the ship not sink.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That seems to be difficult for you to get.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Really?
That's where you've landed? The desperation....
Sad.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)you don't care...so there's that.
I agree with you ehrnst, it is sad.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results don't you?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Some people just refuse to learn, don't they?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ArcticFox
(1,249 posts)I clearly recall people calling for each of those things while establishment politicians told us it wasn't politically possible.
It was only ACA or nothing because of the refusal to advocate for these alternatives that would help many many more people.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)No fair!!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)how some blame our side for getting the only health care ever gotten by any Democrat (exception being CHIP)...and had the courts not ruled against us, we would have expanded medicaid in all states which would have pretty much covered everyone. Now my fear with MFA is the vote are still not there...public option yes if we get the Senate...but if we refuse to beef up and fix the ACA which Trump jhas attacked repeatedly...we will lose it and then people will have nothing ...now I know some believe that the suffering of the masses will bring about a revolution, but I am not of that opinion..it brings only suffering and death for Americans. Those who champion M4A while disparaging the ACA are playing the GOP's game...they are in court to destroy it...and this gives SCOTUS almost permission to do so.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(94,792 posts)...because there wasn't support for MfA?
I suspect that if we'd achieved a public option, we'd be hearing that it "wasn't enough" as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ArcticFox
(1,249 posts)Are you trying to say ACA was enough? That a public option would be enough?
So we should just write off millions and millions of our fellow Americans so long as we have recently made some little bit of progress?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)MFA and ACA isn't actually factual.
It was a choice between the ACA and nothing. Obama had given up on even trying for the ACA, but Pelosi convinced him that she could get it through, and she did.
The idea that MFA was pushed aside for the ACA is fiction.
Is that clearer?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(94,792 posts)No Presidential candidate is saying its enough.
What theyre saying is that incremental improvements FROM ACA is a policy we can build political support for, as opposed to risking LOSING based on an MfA or Bust strategy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)...how it will be implemented, how it will be administrated, how it will be funded, or if it even will work? And in the process, we should throw millions of Americans off their current insurance plans that they fought decades to get?
Has anyone ever, EVER, objectively truly quantified the for profit health insurance industry PROFIT? I have, and was immediately excoriated every time I've posted it.
I prefer to deal in reality, not political speculation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)in the name of purity.
The display of naked privilege in that is breathtaking.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ArcticFox
(1,249 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ismnotwasm
(42,020 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
And Im done with that argument. Just done.
I am happy to see diverse communities rising up and fighting against racism, especially since the very foundations of our country were based on racism. Populist denial of racism as a powerful force that can be overcome by the right paycheck just disturbs me no end.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ismnotwasm
(42,020 posts)Thats not how white supremacy works. Thats never been how it works
Im actually doing a lot reading about this topic from non-white people. Reading articles, books, some social media. Some arent Democrats, although they will vote against Trump. Being Anti-racist is more than an economic philosophy or good intentions
That particular genii is not going back in its bottle and the time for pretending is long past.
I must admit, There are people who do use the economic argument very compellingly, but they tend to be hard core socialists. Bernie Sanders is not a hard core anything.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Then again, he was pretty isolated from most of the hard, dangerious work of civil rights action and Vietnam war protests once he left college and headed to rural Vermont. He was traveling in Europe with his fiancee during the height of the war protests.
Perhaps he got it from books. It's so much easier when it's all theoretical.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ismnotwasm
(42,020 posts)Theoretical as opposed to actual. And when he did seek the actual he tended to find poor examples. You know, the Soviet Union and Cuba.
To be fair to Bernie Sanders, its what a lot of well meaning but ultimately futile seekers do. Build up an ideal, then try to find an example somewhere.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)works that way simply because one wants it to, and thinks it does.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)racism is foundational to the creation of the US, and to much of the wealth that was created.
Sanders is correct, in my view, in that many Americans are not doing well, were not doing well, and have no real hope of doing well. That reflects on the unrestrained form of capitalism embraced by the US governing class.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ismnotwasm
(42,020 posts)In some ways, many Americans are victims of supply and demand, environment, along with technology and the emergence of a strong global economy. Look at coal and logging.
We are living in the midst historical change, too fast to keep up.
Still, do I want Americans to do well at the expense of others? No. So we try to come up with complex trade agreement that multi-nations will actually agree too. This is what President Obama tried to do, and was roundly criticized for it, right here on DU among other places. I am no nationalist.
Thats by the wayside because Republicans DO believe in minimally or no regulation, supply-side Economics. They actually believe this somehow benefits all Americans. Its the biggest scam ever.
I can think of few economic situations worse than unrestrained capitalism. Thats not what Democrats want. Thats not what theyve wanted.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)now is not to pin it on Democrats when repubs have worked against all progress.
Especially now.
It angers me greatly when he throws dems in with repubs like this and ultimately I believe his goal is very different from mine, I want ANY person with a D including him in the WH...That is what I want, I fear others do not want that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)As we both have said, and repeated, and re-iterated, BOTH PARTIES ARE NOT THE SAME.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)...economic inequality is the root cause of racism, often egged on by those in power to keep those at the bottom fighting amongst themselves. It's been happening in America since the 1600s.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ismnotwasm
(42,020 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Historically, whites (white men, specifically) have held the economic and political power wherever they went in the world. After Europe saw a massive technological boom in the late 1400s and early 1500s, that put them in a position to dominate the globe militarily and economically. Most racial tensions involving white supremacy can be traced back to that time period.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ismnotwasm
(42,020 posts)I get that. Its complex, as who was doing what and which king was doing who. Had a professor who thought modern day racism could be traced to the defeat of the Spanish Armada.
Understand, however White males, in particular felt is was their god-given, biblically approved right to dominate. White supremacy isnt a symptom it is the primary problem.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)who were the teachers?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ismnotwasm
(42,020 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)and benefited the most from racial division?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)They are the primary beneficiaries of an inequitable, capitalistic "flawed system that produces millionaires."
For instance, those that profit from selling their wares, and share part of their take with on Amazon a notorious abuser of their employees for the benefit of the 1%.
Did I answer right?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)On edit caveat, this post was made before you edited yours'.
Now lets see if we take that one step farther, who are the majority owners of today's corporate media conglomerates?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And who are the most threatened by the free press when it refuses to submit to their will?
The very same!!!
Bernie Sanders thinks media is unfair, so he created his own
Enemy of the People: how Trump makes the media into the opposition
Are Bernie Sanders' attacks on the media fair or Trumpian?
Both complain about Jeff Bezos bitterly (when WAPO gets under their skin), but continue to make $$$$ off of Amazon...
The universal language, I understand...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)both good and evil forces will try go around or over it.
The only question becomes which way the majority in the middle that still don't realize the dysfunction will break to?
Will they follow a racist, misogynist, xenophobe pathological liar bent on division as in Trump?
Or a leader proposing universal policies that lift all the people as one family regardless of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation etc. etc. as in Bernie?
However at some point a choice must be made because the "middle" under dysfunctional systems; bent on waywardly steering the nation for narrow self-serving purposes becomes increasingly untenable until nations reach an absolute breaking point or implode.
Time is of the essence particularly as now a days with climate change, the world is literally at stake.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)along with vicious attacks on several innocent strawmen who did nothing wrong!
Fish aren't biting, Hon. Does this work for you IRL?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ismnotwasm
(42,020 posts)You implying a conspiracy over centuries rather than accepting a WRONG cultural standard evolved You do read history, I cant imagine you dont.
Once the idea of racial supremacy is there, it transcends income. From political leaders to military forces to the poorest people. White supremacy was an unquestioned standard for a very long time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)and the stranglehold on the actual point!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)never wanted to be mega-wealthy and powerful?
Their primary interests almost always predominate government policies at the expense of the masses and it doesn't even take conspiracy (although that can also happen) so much as just long term narrow self-interest
Divide and conquer is biblical in age and yes I agree with you that once racial supremacy takes hold it becomes a self-fulfilling social dynamic however I believe the best counter to divide and conquer tactics are universal policies.
It's not going to be an overnight panacea by any stretch but I believe in the long haul universal policies treating everyone as equal will bring the people together and curtail the potential rise of future demagogues as in Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ismnotwasm
(42,020 posts)Or the notion of noble blood? Or even the power of spiritual leaders. It took Henry the 8th to take the Catholic Church down
Or, what our driving philosophies contained
What they wanted they took.
This is the human legacy and for all Platos Republic he believed men were superior than women for instance. That slavery was justified.
This notion of superiority goes back millennia, its not a modern western concept.
I am not arguing against economic change as much as I firmly believe this notion of superiority, in our case white supremacy, is a powerful driver no matter what the economic system.
My city. Seattle. I love my city for all its flaws. My city has 11,000 homeless. You go out there and its almost post apocalyptic. Our safety nets are failing all over. We are out of time. We are too late for far too many.
And for every lost soul who is white, there are even more who are of a different race. disproportionately so.
Its like the silent epidemic of missing and murdered indigenous women. Ill see a TV clip about a missing blonde, when we are in the middle of a Native women horror.
Love Bernie Sanders all you want, I have no problem with that. I have a problem with denying or minimizing racism.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)Furthermore, societies are dominated by the most powerful and wealthy and make no mistake about it, the majority of them are most concerned about their own narrow personal interests
"Promoting the General Welfare" of the nation is just a nice slogan that goes well with American Flag pins on lapels.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)whites who are racists and there's lots of black folk and brown folk* who are racist too. Racism is
EVERYBODY'S problem and we all have to solve it together.
*note: I've left out "the yellow folk" since a person smarter than I am said that if a person appears to
have yellow skin it's likely that they have jaundice.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
When we have ALL the levers of power and systemically disenfranchise white people. Then you can come back and say that. Any animosity we have towards just about everybody else is deserved. White folks got the black people are subhuman train rolling and the whole world took it up. We catch flak from people's that have very little to no interaction with black folks other than what they have been taught So thanks but no thanks on that right wing talking point.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)it doesn't hold true in other places around the world. I stand by my previous comment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ismnotwasm
(42,020 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)be more likely to support Trump since he too is a racist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beastie boy
(9,505 posts)imagined.
Can anyone seriously contend that racist demagoguery, wherever it comes from, will lose its effect as soon as establishment, whatever that means, stops failing Americans?
Was there ever a period in America's history that can remotely corroborate this crazy theory?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)He has my vote in a general.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,045 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Me.
(35,454 posts)why does it escape him that he is the establishment and he has a fat paycheck, good healthcare, 3 million to run his office, a fat pension in waiting and so on and so forth to prove it? And if he thinks the establishment is so bad, he's responsible for it being so too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Capitalism has been very, very good to Senator Sanders and his family, and he has not turned his nose up at the rather generous rewards of such that are of chartered jets, multiple homes, trips to the Rome, and selling products on Amazon.
I understand that he has long been anti-charitable giving, out of principle, no matter what the current economic situation is, right now, for so many of the victims of a flawed "system that produces millionaires" he says he is the only hope of, the money just does accumulate.
Terrible problem to have. Especially when someone points it out in public, where politicians do their work, and one gets rather testy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)It's this sh*t right here and the way some of y'all lap it up like milk from a saucer because this man happen to say it. If the left wants to co-opt Sander's racial blind spots when it comes to racism in America, fine, enjoy losing presidential primary after primary.
At this rate, he either just doesn't get it, doesn't care, or doesn't want to get it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Louder and more emotional does not equate to more numerous.
I hope that some some people remember that come time to count actual votes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And many, many others.....and I have reciepts:
https://rewire.news/article/2019/04/30/heres-how-bernie-sanders-missed-the-mark-at-she-the-people-forum/
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/politics/bernie-sanders-black-voters-2020/index.html
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/03/09/bernie-sanders-race-black-voters-2020-225611
But the thing is, I never claimed that Bernie didn't speak for you, so that protest is irrelevant. So there's that.
NOW the conversation can end.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)The Clark County Black Caucus said Thursday that it would throw its support behind Bernie Sanders, the latest in a flurry of Nevada endorsements this week as he seeks to shore up support in a key early contest.
"When you look at his platform and his consistency, over the years he has a long history fighting for civil rights and economic justice," Yvette Williams, chair of the Clark County Black Caucus, tells CBS News.
"We've interviewed him as well, and he has concrete plans in place that will address many of the inequities, inequalities, and injustices of black America," Williams added.
(snip)
The Clark County Black Caucus' endorsement comes as other Nevada groups have rallied to Sanders. On Tuesday, the immigrant rights group Make the Road Action made public its plans to leverage their organizing heft in Nevada for the Sanders campaign. Meanwhile, the Clark County Education Association, Nevada's largest teachers union, announced Monday that it too would back the Vermont senator.
(snip)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/with-a-flurry-of-endorsements-bernie-sanders-shores-up-nevada-support/
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287427502
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)But when someone sends out WOC to try to do damage control on their missteps concerning women and POC, you know it isn't going well with either.
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)well at least in your defense, you're consistent...so there's that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I anticipate another strawman being attacked.
Very manly.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)It seems that using the ignore feature would be beneficial to your sense of well being.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)I have never put anyone here at D.U. no matter the differences on ignore.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I can understand why you're embarassed to admit it.
Just concerned for your emotional well-being.
You're welcome.
hyperperbolically-cheery response in 3...2...1...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)may seem "over the top" to anyone wanting to stay on the status quo low path regardless of the end destination.
Thanks for your concern.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)claiming that it's all 'relative' while accusing the other person of taking "the low road" when they make a point that lands hard against one's own cherished tropes.
Do take care of yourself. High blood pressure is a scourge of men.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)nothing to respond with. So it's on to Cenk Uygur in Texas that has nothing to do with Nevada and whatever else you have there.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And you have a REAAALLLLLYYY big twitter following?
Why doesn't that count?????????
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(94,792 posts)Show us how Bernie is SUCCESSFULLY reaching to the broad reach of African American Democrats, who actually bother to vote.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brooklynite
(94,792 posts)Take a look at the distribution of African American voters between Biden and Sanders. (Tap on their pictures)
https://projects.economist.com/democratic-primaries-2020/candidate/bernie-sanders/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)people claim to be "reaching out to them" haven't managed to excite them enough to do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Because if one can't even get them to the polls, "reaching out" doesn't really have much value in terms of actual results.
What does reaching out even mean, if those being reached out to don't act?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)Actually, now is a good time for EVERY Person on this thread to say that!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Those "young people and POC" that are supposedly being "activated" to participate in the civil responsibility of voting.
We know that DU participants - for the most part - are fully aware of the value of voting as progressive action.
Unlike some who didn't vote until they first ran for office, when it benefitted them personally to do so.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)But here you go:
VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)I did this a few times in the past and some folks were annoyed with it...weird.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)complied with your insistence that they reply immediately with those words.
Just a thought.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)He is not doing well enough to win the nomination with 20% overall...notice few articles and posts tell us what the the actual numbers of young Black voters Sanders has on his side...there is a reason-Biden is close. It was posted here recently.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)...feels the "establishment" has failed them. In fact, I'd bet most of them don't even think that there IS and "establishment".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)who is far more likely to survive in a wasteland where the 'establishment' of community supported protections from the social darwinism has been eliminated.
Women, POC, LGBTQs, the disabled, children and the elderly pay the biggest price in the reality of actual war and the destruction of institutions.
But KICK ASS, DUDE!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
W_HAMILTON
(7,876 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Afromania
(2,771 posts)Another fucking grab ass apoloscuse for people that hate my ass. You know how ylthose mother fuckers got left behind? By electing the shittiest bastards they could and cold kicking reality in the face 8n favor of dumb shit and lies, but go ahead and keep patting them on the hand.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eko
(7,372 posts)"How did Trump become president?" Sanders said. "I think it speaks to something that I talk about a lot and that is the fact that...tens and tens of millions of Americans are too fucking lazy to participate in their own governing, Republican and Democrat, they would rather sit there and post stupid shit on social media. They dont know history, science, even basic facts on how their government is made up. They would rather watch and talk about the frenzy of the day, they feed on that. And when all you do is eat shit that's all that comes out of you. "
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)this dates long before the Internet came along.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Eko
(7,372 posts)I say lazy. And yes they absolutely can become lazy for no other reason than they can do it. As for the internet, before that was TV, also we have to define what "this" is in your statement before we can really have a discussion.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
was disenchantment which leads to apathy.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Disenchantment : a feeling of disappointment about someone or something you previously respected or admired; disillusionment.
Now you have to show that is the main reason for tens and tens of millions of Americans feel that the political establishment, Republican and Democrat, voting for Trump.
Ill give you a start, that's not true.
https://www.people-press.org/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/
Also,
Trump voters median income exceeded the overall statewide median in all 23 states, sometimes narrowly (as in New Hampshire or Missouri) but sometimes substantially. In Florida, for instance, the median household income for Trump voters was about $70,000, compared with $48,000 for the state as a whole. The differences are usually larger in states with substantial non-white populations, as black and Hispanic voters are overwhelmingly Democratic and tend to have lower incomes. In South Carolina, for example, the median Trump supporter had a household income of $72,000, while the median for Clinton supporters was $39,000.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/
and then,
Most of the Republican front-runner's votes are from the top end of the income scale
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2016/04/20/where-donald-trumps-support-really-comes-from
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)that's approximately one out of every two Americans eligible to vote.
About 100 million people couldnt be bothered to vote this year
Roughly 43 percent of eligible voters didn't bother filling out a ballot this year, according to turnout estimates from the U.S. Elections Project. To look at it another way, the people who could have voted but chose not to vastly outnumbered those who cast a vote for Clinton, Trump or a third-party candidate.
(snip)
Subtract all those people and you've got about 232 million people potentially eligible to cast a vote this fall. But only about 132 million of them did, give or take the one or two million votes that have yet to be officially certified. That means that 100 million people who have the legal right to vote simply decided it wasn't worth the hassle this year.
(snip)
Some of these non-voters may have been discouraged by long lines or policies designed to suppress participation among certain demographic groups, like minority voters. But the research, like a 2014 study from the Government Accountability Office, suggests these policies can at most affect turnout rates by a percentage point or two.
(snip)
It's clear, in other words, that tens of millions of Americans who could vote nevertheless decide not to. If you believe that high participation rates are a sign of a healthy democracy, this is a huge problem. As the Pew Research Center noted earlier this year, our voter turnout is among the lowest in the developed world.
(snip)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/12/about-100-million-people-couldnt-be-bothered-to-vote-this-year/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
betsuni
(25,686 posts)the Obama administration. The right-wing media bubble brainwashed them into believing everything got worse. They thought unemployment went up, taxes went up, regulations for small businesses went up, deficit went up, crime got worse, white people were the actually disadvantaged ones, etc. There's no way these people were worse off in 2016 than during the worst of the Great Recession and bursting of the housing bubble. (Shitty economy caused by Republican trickle down nonsense and untaxing wealthy, deregulating industry, privatization -- ensuring the government makes life worse for people so they can run against the government and blame Democrats for failing Americans.) When Trump became president the economy suddenly was fine, booming even.
His voters imagined economic hardship. They don't want Republican policies but can't vote any other way, and here comes Trump with his populist message who says he hates the Republican establishment too! Here was someone who dispenses with mere dogwhistles and just says racist things out loud! The Republican Party is now the white nationalist party. The establishment has lost control of the monster.
Democrats have nothing to do with it. Republicans politicized evangelicals (automatic base every election!). They lie and cheat. Politics as total war. Not enough just to win, the enjoyment comes in making the enemy suffer. Once you reside in the right-wing bubble, you'll have no idea what Democratic policies are -- of course you'll "feel" that they've "failed" you. You'll believe whatever they tell you on Fox News.
Trump's racist demagoguery only works because both sides? No.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lunasun
(21,646 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
David__77
(23,555 posts)Certainly alienation helped to consolidate social bases of fascism and racism historically. Does fundamental transformation in governmental and economic relations automatically transform ideas? No. Cultural transformation is also needed.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)I do believe that fundamental transformation in governmental and economic relations while certainly not automatic or instantaneous can foster an overall greater social environment conducive to racial healing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,666 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,666 posts)In the real world, trump would destroy a weak candidate like sanders. It would be really sad to see trump destroy sanders and I agree that sanders chance of being the nominee or being elected is nil
Link to tweet
The chances of Sanders actually becoming president, however, are also close to nil. I say this because in 2016 I got a glimpse of the Republican partys opposition research book on Sanders, which was so massive it had to be transported on a cart. The Newsweek reporter Kurt Eichenwald, who got to see some of its contents, declared that it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn [Sanders] apart.
According to Eichenwald, the book includes damning material such as the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermonts nuclear waste to Texas where it would be dumped in a poor Hispanic community, that he honeymooned in the Soviet Union, and that he appeared at a 1985 rally in Nicaragua at which Sandinista supporters chanted Here, there / the Yankee will die. And then theres Sanders fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men
After the Trump campaign and Fox News got through weaponizing this research, the usual conservative charges against Sanders that his domestic program would cost nearly $100tn over the next decade, that he would ban individual health insurance, send taxes into the stratosphere, and sympathize with terrorists and leftwing regimes would seem almost benign. The Republican campaign against any Democratic presidential candidate is guaranteed to be ugly, but against Sanders it would be gruesome. The result most likely would be a Democratic wipeout on the scale of Labours under Jeremy Corbyn.
Thats why Sanders is the preferred Democratic nominee of Trump and his aides. It explains otherwise puzzling stories such as Trump coming to Sanders defense against Warrens no-female-president claim, saying sexism is not his deal. And while living in Washington has made me cynical in some ways, I would not be in the least surprised if conservative dollars are swelling the coffers of Our Revolution, Sanders dark-money Super Pac which doesnt have to disclose its donors.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,459 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,666 posts)trump and McCarthy really really want sanders to be the nominee. If sanders is the nominee, trump will win 45+ states and many downballot candidates will lose https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/why-trump-mccarthy-seem-so-eager-side-bernie-sanders-n1116941
First, Trump and McCarthy seem to believe Sanders' supporters can be manipulated -- a belief I suspect the Vermonter's backers will find insulting -- and intra-party divisions in Democratic politics can be stoked to ensure Trump's re-election. McCarthy's reference to superdelegates was especially notable: some Sanders supporters are under the mistaken belief that Democratic superdelegates derailed the senator's 2016 candidacy, which is not what happened.
Second, Republican attempts at mischief notwithstanding, the New York Times reports that Donald Trump's political advisers see Bernie Sanders as "their ideal" general-election opponent. To that end, the article added, members of the president's team "have been doing what they can to elevate [the independent senator's] profile and bolster his chances of winning the Iowa caucuses."
Which, naturally, helps explain why the president sided with Sanders last night, and why McCarthy seemed so focused on helping Sanders yesterday afternoon.
It's likely that many Democratic primary and caucus voters will look past these tactics, which is just as well. But as these efforts intensify, at least we'll know the motivation behind them.
Postscript: It's worth emphasizing, in case this isn't obvious, that Team Trump may see Sanders as their "ideal" 2020 foe, but Republicans may very well be wrong. Plenty of Democrats saw Donald Trump as the weakest GOP candidate four years ago, and we now know those assumptions didn't work out especially well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TexasTowelie
(112,517 posts)to investigate Levi Sanders? Vermont needed that money for the maple syrup war with Canada.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,666 posts)There is a ton of great oppo on sanders. In addition, Russia would use the fact that sanders delegates booed John Lewis, Elijah Cummings, Stacy Abrams and other African Americans at the national convention to suppress African American vote. Russia has a ton of really bad behavior by sanders and his delegates available for use to suppress the vote of African Americans.
None of the Democratic candidates are using this oppo because no one really thinks that sanders has a chance of being the nominee. There are tons of video of sanders praising Fidel Castro, the old Soviet Union, Central American socialists and other enemies of the United States that would make great attack ads. trump has the money to run these ads on a constant loop so that sanders would be lucky not to repeat the results of the 1972 election.
In addition, Russia targeted African American voters last cycle to depress or suppress their vote.
Link to tweet
Without strong African American voter turnout, no Democrat stands a chance. sanders has made Russia's efforts easy in that all Russia has to do is play videos of sanders delegates booing John Lewis, Elijah Cummings, Stacy Abrams and others. There is a ton of anger out there about this stunt by sanders delegates at the National Convention.
I am glad that we will not have to find out. I will support the nominee of the party but I really doubt that sanders will be the nominee. No Democrat has wasted their time going negative on sanders because no one thinks that sanders has a chance of being the nominee.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,666 posts)Trump had a two foot thick book of oppo research on Sanders http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers....
The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I dont know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden