Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumSanders was an elector for a 1980 presidential candidate who said US soldiers should shoot officers
I hadn't known this before last night, when I read a CNN piece by Joe Lockhart, then checked for the report on Sanders' association with the Socialist Workers Party, a Trotskyist group that had split off from the Communist Party USA.
http://m.cnn.com/en/article/h_b2b013b579c3336442a6c4f131303fdb
I looked for that Washington Examiner article and found what it said about Sanders' association with the group:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/campaigns/bernie-sanders-campaigned-for-marxist-party-in-reagan-era
But his personal files from his time as mayor of Burlington, from 1981 to 1989, archived at the University of Vermont, show that he supported and campaigned for the communist SWP and maintained a close relationship with its senior members. While Democrats campaigned for President Jimmy Carter in 1980 and Walter Mondale in 1984, Sanders spent the Reagan era supporting fringe Marxists with no chance of reaching the White House.
In 1980, Sanders "proudly endorsed and supported" Andrew Pulley, the party's presidential candidate, who once said that American soldiers should "take up their guns and shoot their officers." Sanders was one of three electors for Pulley on the Vermont ballot, stating in a press release: "I fully support the SWP's continued defense of the Cuban revolution."
Four years later, he backed and campaigned for the SWP presidential nominee Mel Mason, a former Black Panther, saying it was important for there to be "fundamental alternatives to capitalist ideology." During the campaign, Mason praised the Russian and Chinese revolutions and said: "The greatest example of a socialist government is Cuba, and Nicaragua is right behind, but it's still developing."
I did some more googling to check on whether possibly Andrew Pulley had made that statement after 1980, in which case Sanders' endorsement of him couldn't have had anything to do with inflammatory rhetoric about soldiers shooting their officers.
What I found was that Pulley had said this about 10 years earlier. So there's little chance that Sanders wasn't well aware of it.
He still supported Pulley and was one of the three electors for Pulley on the Vermont ballot.
Sanders was 39 years old at the time of the 1980 election.
He wasn't a teenager or even a 20something who might try to dismiss decisions made re the 1980 election (when he could have supported Carter against Reagan instead) as due to some youthful naivete.
This is definitely NOT the Scandinavian model that Sanders and his supporters would like you to believe is the type of socialism Sanders has supported. (The Scandinavian model isn't socialism, anyway, but regulated capitalism with a wide safety net supported by high taxes.)
Anyway, THIS part of Sanders' background -- from when he was nearly 40 years old (and four years later when he again was an elector for the 1984 SWP candidate) -- is what the Republicans are likely to go after, if by some unfortunate chance Sanders becomes our nominee.
This is why Trump and the Republicans so obviously want Sanders, not Biden, to be our nominee.
I don't know how Sanders explains this.
Note: See replies below for links to more info.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)You might want to look for a secondary source.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,060 posts)I'm using that one because it's concise.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)You might want to check out these links and consider adding them to the end for support:
https://www.jpost.com/American-Politics/Bernie-Sanders-joined-a-party-that-supported-Iran-during-hostage-crisis-614524
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7088909/Sanders-campaigned-radical-Socialist-Workers-Party-investigated-FBI.html
https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernies-past-with-the-far-far-far-left
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,060 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,060 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,060 posts)https://www.thedailybeast.com/when-iran-took-americans-hostage-bernie-backed-irans-defenders
In fact, the SWPs position on Iran is part of what distinguishes it from democratic socialist groups. When its presidential candidate, Andrew Pulley, came to speak at the University of Vermont in October 1980, Sanders chaired the meeting. Pulley attracted only 40 students to his rally, where he concentrated, according to the SWPs newspaper The Militant, on the Iran-Iraq war, and condemned anti-Iranian hysteria around the U.S. hostages. Military action against Iran was not at that point theoreticalPulleys speech came six months after the attempt to free the hostages in Operation Eagle Claw had failed.
-snip-
Six months after the 1980 election, on May 21, 1981, Sanders spoke at another Pulley rally. For the last 40 years, Sanders said, the Socialist Workers Party has been harassed, informed upon, had their offices broken into, had members of their party fired from their jobs, and have been treated with cold contempt by the United States government. Even worse, he went on, apparently referring to the Iranian hostage crisis, now anybody who stands up and fights and says things is automatically a terrorist. He claimed that he had been investigated himself by the FBI because I was an elector for the Socialist Workers Party, referring to his formal role in the 1980 election with the Trotskyists.
The Sanders campaign did not respond to a request for comment. Asked about the SWP in 1988, Sanders, then the mayor of Burlington and a congressional candidate, talked down the connection, saying that: I was asked to put my name on the ballot and I did, thats true." Today, no mention of Sanders association with the SWP appears in any campaign biography he has issued. But Sanders remained tied to the party after 1980. He was a featured speaker at a Boston rally for the SWPs Massachusetts gubernatorial candidate and the partys slate for Congress in 1982, the year after he was narrowly elected mayor of Burlington. In 1984, he again spoke on behalf of the SWPs presidential candidate, this time former Black Panther Mel Mason, telling The Militant that at a time when the Democratic and Republican parties are intellectually and spiritually bankrupt, it is imperative for radical voices to be heard which offer fundamental alternatives to capitalist ideology." It remains unclear when Sanderss affiliation with the SWP ended.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MH1
(17,608 posts)before people had so much time to dig in this much. (Although the pros would have gotten to this stuff so I should probably revise my thinking that he might have won in 2016.)
He has ZERO chance this year unless the GOP completely implodes, even more than they already have .. and they won't. The combination of "moron vote" plus electoral college, puts us at a huge disadvantage to start with.
(Never mind that for all the warts, a Sanders presidency would be SO much better than Trump's. It's irrelevant if it can't happen.)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Zolorp
(1,115 posts)He would never have even gotten past the early states then.
I'm glad they're vetting him now when they didn't vet him then.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)It has remained largely unknown to the general public partially due to obfuscation and partially due to the fact that his Democratic opponents have not hammered him with "opposition research."
But he would never survive a general election with his record.
Let's not make a yuge mistake.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Zolorp
(1,115 posts)I wasn't wrapped up in 2016 and couldn't make up my mind until the day before the primary in my state when I decided to go with Hillary. I could have easily gone for Sanders, too. It was a last minute decision for me and I really didn't pay a lot of attention to it. I've always mostly gone with the flow in these things and always vote for the Democrats in general elections because my family always did that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
getagrip_already
(14,907 posts)It was a 2 person race, and she was ahead, so her team made the strategic decision to not attack.
Now, it's a 5 way race, and sanders has gone low against several. Glass, meet stone.
But people here are correct, he is un-electable in the GE. He will get railroaded to an epic loss, and democracy along with him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)Four years later, he backed and campaigned for the SWP presidential nominee Mel Mason, a former Black Panther, saying it was important for there to be "fundamental alternatives to capitalist ideology.
It seems the author doesn't just vilify Socialists he finds Black Panther to be an epithet as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)writing off someone because they are or have been a Black Panther?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)a Black Panther is irrelevant. It is all about options for Sanders so people don't have to vote for a Democrats...as you might imagine, as a Democrat, I object to this sort of thing. vote blue no matter who...not third party.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)as a way of saying someone is a well understood bad person is exactly what I am objecting to so it is relevant. As far as I know many Black Panthers are registered as Democrats and run as such.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)That's your highlight, not the writer's. If you go to Mel Mason's wikipedia page you'll see that the FIRST sentence under "Political Activism" is
So what's the big deal? Was he a member of the Black Panther Party? Looks like you're the one concluding that it's "a way of saying someone is a well understood bad person.."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melvin_T._Mason
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)The author uses it as one of his points to discredit Mr. Mason.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,369 posts)Where does he use it as a point to discredit Mr, Mason?
The author also says this about Mr. Mason in the article:
"We had a long-distance relationship, but that kind of changed after he ran for Congress. I didn't have as much contact anymore. I have a lot of respect for him, but I just don't think the programs he put forward are what workers need in this country," Mason said. "We were calling for the formation of an independent revolutionary labor party. We felt that it was necessary for workers in this country to enact a revolution."
Where is the part where the author discredits Mr. Mason for being a former member of the Black Panthers?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)it is all part of praising Russia, China, and Cuba. As a white person who knows and talks to lots of white people Black Panther is used to describe dangerous black people. I have to admit I am only speculating from what I read. Maybe the author has a deep respect for the Black Panthers and my cynicism is keeping me from seeing that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,369 posts)Like Mr. Mason, Congressman Bobby Rush is a former Black Panther.
A civil rights activist during the 1960s, Rush founded the Illinois chapter of the Black Panthers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Rush
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)as part of the laundry list of things bad about people Sanders endorsed/endorses.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,369 posts)Later in the article, the author gives another description based on Mr. Mason's work and affiliations since that run:
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)the author used Black Panther had no racial animus, I'm skeptical of his intentions. I see us at an impasse and can't think of anything more to add.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,369 posts)all as biographical details. If there were racial animus, that list would probably have been shorter.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)can add to what we have said before.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)choice other than Democrats...I don't even remember any Black Panthers so it is meaningless to me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)have registered as Democrats and run as such. I don't honestly recall anyone running for office as a Black Panther.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)....that the FIRST sentence under "Political Activism" is
I don't see the significance of you calling that out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melvin_T._Mason
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)...except that implied by you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)that it indicates being a Black Panther is one of the things wrong with Mr. Mason.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)I just don't care. That seems to be ancient history to me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)to be an example of a bad thing that people Sanders endorsed did. I believe the Black Panthers were a very good organization that was one of the chief victims of cointelpro.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)And I don't think any would disagree that he has...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,369 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,722 posts)sanders is a very weak candidate who would be destroyed. The Clinton campaign had a 101 page memo with 1000 pages of back up of oppo on sanders but never had to use because sanders was never a serious candidate.
Link to tweet
sanders had been mathematically eliminate by the results of the super Tuesday contests and so there was no need to use this oppo
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)No exceptions.
If they are going to run by pointing out contradictions or problematic actions in other candidate's records, their own are going to be pointed out.
No exceptions.
I anticipate much anger over this, and not much in the way of explanations.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)years to try to get something on a candidate is not helpful IMO. Lets talk about the here and now. And BTW, I said the same thing about people using this same tactic to try to get Biden for something he did a long time ago.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=429339
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
getagrip_already
(14,907 posts)That makes it current. He could disavow his former positions, but won't.
So the age of the issue becomes current.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)said in response. I can't rely on paraphrasing
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)...defend and support the Cuba Revolution and subsequent government?
Where was Sanders during the Cuban Missile Crisis? Oh wait, that was during JFK's administration - the President who Sanders said made him physically nauseated.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)Trump wil eviscerate, pulverize , puree and excoriate Sanders over this and he will lose 49 states.
Anyone who thinks he has any chance in the GE has extremely thick blinders on AND is very high on koolaid.
Goodbye Sanders -- drop out already. You're no Democrat, you're a Marxist in Democratic clothing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to highplainsdem (Original post)
Post removed
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)"But his personal files from his time as mayor of Burlington, from 1981 to 1989, archived at the University of Vermont, show that he supported and campaigned for the communist SWP and maintained a close relationship with its senior members."
Social justice did have/will have people who support it, irrelevant of labels, and those who don't, because of labels.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Takket
(21,652 posts)This should not have any influence on who anyone votes for in the primaries or general.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,979 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tiggeroshii
(11,088 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)It's vetting. It's shining the light.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
David__77
(23,559 posts)It reminds me of that Jeremiah Wright nonsense.
The generational split is striking to me.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,714 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
David__77
(23,559 posts)I can think of a lot worse things!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
RandySF
(59,484 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden