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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
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But how will he pay for it? Andrew Yang's Freedom Dividend (Original Post) redqueen Jan 2020 OP
I'll say this squirecam Jan 2020 #1
Will never happen. Already running trillion dollar annual deficits. democratisphere Jan 2020 #2
If you watch the video squirecam Jan 2020 #3
Dreaming. Health Care is bleeding this country dry. democratisphere Jan 2020 #5
Here's an economist's view redqueen Jan 2020 #6
Interesting squirecam Jan 2020 #11
Because too many people have no or not enough income. redqueen Jan 2020 #12
But the video squirecam Jan 2020 #13
Right well tax cuts are an even easier sell redqueen Jan 2020 #14
So... squirecam Jan 2020 #15
No, you've skipped a step redqueen Jan 2020 #16
I didn't post the video squirecam Jan 2020 #17
Definitely results, which is why the a plan that can get through Congress is preferable imo. redqueen Jan 2020 #18
Because the message squirecam Jan 2020 #19
I don't see how that framing or plan would make it more likely to get through Congress redqueen Jan 2020 #21
Ironic, isn't it? nilesobek Jan 2020 #20
It's a little depressing. redqueen Jan 2020 #22
Here's the thing, those new taxes disproportionately hit higher incomes. redqueen Jan 2020 #4
Then fix things squirecam Jan 2020 #7
Apparently that's easier said than done, because we have had people falling through the cracks redqueen Jan 2020 #9
How many times does this have to be said? OilemFirchen Jan 2020 #8
A VAT on its own is regressive. VAT + UBI is not. redqueen Jan 2020 #10
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
1. I'll say this
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:31 PM
Jan 2020

He does explain how he pays for it, through new taxes.

But I don’t like the idea that millionaires get this income.

Nor do I agree that those already getting $1000 in assistance should be left out.

If this program is to be implemented, it should be based upon income and need.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
2. Will never happen. Already running trillion dollar annual deficits.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:35 PM
Jan 2020

People shouldn't be lured with fairy tales.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
3. If you watch the video
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:36 PM
Jan 2020

He does say how the program would be paid for.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
5. Dreaming. Health Care is bleeding this country dry.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:38 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
6. Here's an economist's view
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:39 PM
Jan 2020




And here's the full video
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
11. Interesting
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 07:02 PM
Jan 2020

He admits that 90% of Harvard students picked plan a - the means tested plan. And admits that plan a has the more progressive tax.

Which begs the question why Yang keeps arguing for plan B, if plan a is both more progressive and easier to “sell” to the public.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
12. Because too many people have no or not enough income.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 07:24 PM
Jan 2020

And that number is going to keep growing.

Right now those people are / may be eligible for some form of aid or another - but many won't get it. Whether due to the humiliation and stigma, the ridiculous rules, or whatever.

It's easier to sell because we still have this Puritan work ethic mindset. And that's also why we have so many people living on the streets, or in their cars. Progressive tax plans are not helping them. They have not been helping them for decades. I'm ready to try a trickle up economy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
13. But the video
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 07:26 PM
Jan 2020

Shows it isn’t an easier sell.

The easier sell is the means tested income plan.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
14. Right well tax cuts are an even easier sell
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 07:27 PM
Jan 2020

so we should just do that?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
15. So...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 07:33 PM
Jan 2020

You dont want the aid. You’d rather not get anything, then change the message to one that works.

Got it.

And your tax example doesn’t work. The choice isn’t between raising taxes or cutting them. It’s between selling a plan giving additional income...

In which, one way got 90% approval, but because it isn’t plan B language, you Won’t use it, and thus get nothing instead.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
16. No, you've skipped a step
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 07:35 PM
Jan 2020

We need to get any plan through Congress.

Students at Harvard maybe aren't the best focus group for determining what can be expected to pass.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
17. I didn't post the video
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 07:46 PM
Jan 2020

You did.

And the video you posted showed that 90% of Harvard students agree with me.

If I had a focus group and 90% of respondents said burger A tasted better then burger B, you better believe I’d sell burger A.

If you have a video that shows 90% of Yale students picked plan B, then post it.

Otherwise, I think you should reconsider. Is it the income you care for, or the language used to get it enacted.

Id care for the actual results.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
18. Definitely results, which is why the a plan that can get through Congress is preferable imo.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 08:28 PM
Jan 2020

But I do think it is ironic that you seem to be advocating for messaging that's tailored to the opinions of college students.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
19. Because the message
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 09:41 PM
Jan 2020

Is better tailored to getting the income passed.

I don’t think older voters, of which I am one, would prefer B either.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
21. I don't see how that framing or plan would make it more likely to get through Congress
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:12 PM
Jan 2020

so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
20. Ironic, isn't it?
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:01 PM
Jan 2020

That the very last minority candidate is being judged by Ivy League elitists whose schools have been found to discriminate against East Asians.

It's all about the money as usual.

The Empire has decided that the majority of Imperial Credits should be super concentrated in the hands of 650 American billionaires.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
22. It's a little depressing.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:19 PM
Jan 2020

We are going to have to have UBI, sooner than most think. It would literally help every American citizen 18 and over (excepting only during time spent in jail) - how is that somehow not enough?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
4. Here's the thing, those new taxes disproportionately hit higher incomes.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:38 PM
Jan 2020

By exempting necessities, and hiking the VAT on luxury goods, this form of tax along with UBI is one of the most fair and efficient forms of wealth redistribution.

So although yes, Jeff Bezos will be eligible to opt in to his $1000/mo dividend, he will be paying in WAY more than that in taxes.

As for existing programs - which are based on income and need - they leave too many people out. That is what we are trying to fix. Only a fraction of people eligible for SNAP / TANF actually get it. Only a fraction who are disabled get disability, and that often takes years. Why continue fucking over people on need, just to prevent the few at the top from getting a fraction of their taxes back in the form of this dividend?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
7. Then fix things
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:44 PM
Jan 2020

So those in need get it.

I’d rather see that then the Trump family getting a check they don’t need.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
9. Apparently that's easier said than done, because we have had people falling through the cracks
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:48 PM
Jan 2020

for decades.

Obviously the same old same old simply does not work.

We will need UBI eventually regardless - so why wait? Republicans are now championing it. Are we going to let them implement this revolutionary change?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
8. How many times does this have to be said?
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:46 PM
Jan 2020

A VAT, like all forms of flat taxes, is regressive. Period. It doesn't matter how much a person pays, it matters how much a person pays as a percentage of their income or wealth.

BTW, fuck Ron Paul.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
10. A VAT on its own is regressive. VAT + UBI is not.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:50 PM
Jan 2020

Also, how do you think European countries pay for their awesome safety net and other social spending?

It astounds me that one of the most un-loopholeable forms of taxation, which almost every other developed country uses BECAUSE it is so hard to dodge, is so demonized here. Oh wait no it doesn't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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