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In reply to the discussion: 16 Penn swimmers say transgender teammate Lia Thomas shouldn't be allowed to compete [View all]moriah
(8,311 posts)57. May I ask an honest question of you?
From the article:
Thomas, a senior, spent three seasons competing for Penn's men's team. She transitioned to a woman and has competed for the women's team this season after undergoing testosterone suppression therapy for more than two years.
Is it possible that the reason Lia was low in the men's rankings while undergoing testosterone suppression therapy WAS that she was on it? I mean, she was swimming against men with all their natural testosterone at play plus the height and muscle buildup made possible by their past testosterone levels.
A lot of people are seeing that difference in ranking and getting outraged over it, but I do wonder what her male ranking would have been without transitioning. We don't know what that would be.
I wish the NCAA would do more "open" vs "mixed" events, because "mixed" rules still categorized students as either male or female. (Plus, I'm totally cool with trans women doing NCAA women's gymnastics, especially if they're going to be graded on the same "feminine artistry" and more than 180 degree splits as the women who had that flexibility all their lives instead of just recently thanks to estrogen.)
I also want to make sure that if rules are passed about hormone levels for trans athletes that they do not adversely affect athletes who are naturally intersex but were raised as female. Many of the rules about hormone levels FOR trans athletes have come from testing people who may not have known of intersex conditions before being trained for international competition.
If those who *are* "gender-critical" (not saying you are) think that we should leave nature as-is.... then accept people who are intersex but have always identified as female being able to play just like they accept Michael Phelp's marfanoid arm span to height ratio without disqualifying him from competition.
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16 Penn swimmers say transgender teammate Lia Thomas shouldn't be allowed to compete [View all]
melm00se
Feb 2022
OP
I think they're right. Lia wasn't Olympic material when she was swimming as a male, .
pnwmom
Feb 2022
#2
forcing her out of the competition is just as bad as forcing her out of a women's restroom
cadoman
Feb 2022
#37
I haven't seen anything indicating that she was near the top before she began the hormones.
pnwmom
Feb 2022
#59
As long as it doesn't validate trans people only having 50% gynecology or urology care coverage next
FreepFryer
Feb 2022
#8
She went through puberty as a male, and swam as a male for the first years in college.
pnwmom
Feb 2022
#30
Should this affect any Title IX athletic scholarship she may receive?
JustABozoOnThisBus
Feb 2022
#25
Did she have the surgery to become physically a female or can she revert back to male at her conveni
keithbvadu2
Feb 2022
#29
Whether or not she had "bottom surgery," no surgery could decrease the breadth of her shoulders,
pnwmom
Feb 2022
#31
It's not a trivial issue to the women on her team, or other serious women athletes
pnwmom
Feb 2022
#40
I think whistler understands that he has no coherent answer to this problem
greenjar_01
Feb 2022
#53
There is a coherent answer. It just isn't one that checks the proper boxes.
cinematicdiversions
Feb 2022
#54
I realize that this isn't exactly on point, but there is a parallel here.
BobTheSubgenius
Feb 2022
#42
Yes, it's similar. Lia Thomas was ranked #462 when she was Will; but now she's #1,
pnwmom
Feb 2022
#46
I have wanted to see a woman player, in any sport, who was so dominant they could compete with the
robbob
Feb 2022
#63
Something else to now think about, and why I disbelieve many of you.
IngridsLittleAngel
Feb 2022
#69
Trans women are fighting for everything... And that includes fighting "our friends" on DU
IngridsLittleAngel
Feb 2022
#75
So is "If we let trans women into female restrooms, it'll be easier to sexually assault us!"
IngridsLittleAngel
Feb 2022
#77