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Gun Control & RKBA

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discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:49 PM Feb 2015

The RKBA v 2nd Amendment [View all]

My apologies in advance for addressing a subject which could, and probably should occupy volumes in a single short post.

IMHO, apart from government and society, the right to keep and bear arms is the right to own and use, for the purpose of personal defense, common weapons. The term weapons covers more than just firearms. It is a familiar scene in a movie where a small contingent stands reasoning with a larger angry group carrying torches, clubs and pitchforks. A knife or gun is not necessarily weapon. Tools designed to cut or to fire bullets can be used for purposes other than aggression. A weapon is most generally that which is used to subdue an opponent. A weapon can be a gun, a hand or foot.

Many essays have been written as long ago as Augustine of Hippo in the 4th/5th century on the justification for a forceful defense. Read them if you care to. Taken in its most extreme instance, a forceful defense is killing someone who is trying to kill you. In my mind, saying that there is a right to life but not an ultimate right to defend your life, is a contradiction.

The 2A (2nd Amendment) expresses this right. True, the militia clause is there but that clause does not cancel anyone's natural right of defense or the right to prepare to do so, namely to acquire, own and carry weapons. This topic is where many arguments begin, where debates become heated and relationships become strained. IMHO, the militia clause is part of the Bill of Rights to ensure that no individual state or subordinate agency of government will form it's own armed contingent and outlaw arms to individuals such that tyranny would be more easily enforced. The intent of the Founders, in my opinion, was to secure the state and federal governments against becoming tyrannical. The nature of a militia force allows for an armed contingent to be raised for any proper reason, anywhere and anytime.

The 2A expresses 2 ideals in parallel. The means to enable raising a militia force and the right of individuals to prepare for both militia service and their own defense by keeping and carrying arms.

All due respect to Justice Stevens, et al. the militia clause does have effect but does not limit the amendment to a sole single purpose.

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The RKBA v 2nd Amendment [View all] discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2015 OP
The Amendment does not safeinOhio Feb 2015 #1
the amendment does not... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2015 #2
To secure a free natio safeinOhio Feb 2015 #3
What's the purpose of the other amendments? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #4
So, what they really meant was not what they said safeinOhio Feb 2015 #5
For close to 200 years..... but a collective right. gejohnston Feb 2015 #6
Why is the second half of the statement always ignored? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #7
More to the point of the 1st and 2nd safeinOhio Feb 2015 #8
That refers to specific practices in specific places. I doubt Bloomberg and his frothing horde Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #9
which case is that? mauren Feb 2018 #34
LINK: discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #35
Go read the British Bill of Rights of 1689 hack89 Feb 2015 #11
On the contrary... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2015 #24
I quote... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2015 #10
See, THIS is why I switched sides in the gun debate. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #12
"Bloomberg and his frothing hord" safeinOhio Feb 2015 #13
unlike child killers and future muderers Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #14
How would you describe a group that relies on calling people Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #15
Not like safeinOhio Feb 2015 #17
People who want to disarm peaceable people are grabbers. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #18
Disregard the extremes on both sides safeinOhio Feb 2015 #20
I can't help but notice that as an interlocutor you are Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #21
I hope you will also point out Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #27
all on DU support reasonable gun laws Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #26
authoritarian racists like Bloomberg? gejohnston Feb 2015 #33
I'm guessing you were responding to someone else discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2015 #16
No, I was responding to you. Arguments should be evidence based, as yours is. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #19
Please see #22 discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2015 #23
I miss him too gejohnston Feb 2015 #25
I fear the same for ProgressiveProfessive discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2015 #28
I know for certain he isn't gejohnston Feb 2015 #29
They are good people. They are on my list of those I look forward to meeting one day. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #30
sad discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2015 #31
I understand discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2015 #22
Well regulated militia vs. standing army JackW Feb 2015 #32
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