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jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
3. 1939 scotus miller decision
Sat Aug 10, 2019, 06:08 AM
Aug 2019

The problem today with the 2nd Amendment is the 2008 supreme court 'heller' decision, involving a gun owner who was stripped of his guns due to a restraining order. He appealed, it went to supreme court, where presto chango 2ndA became an individual right (rkba - right to keep, bear arms), despite centuries of precedent having established it as a militia based right (based on england's 1689 'have arms' decree within their bill of rights signed by WM & Mary after the glorious revolution).

However, the previous most recent supreme court 2ndA decision was in 1939 when scotus had a similar case involving one jack miller & his accomplice frank layton, who crossed a state line with an illegal sawed off shotgun & claimed 2ndA protection. It ended up in supreme court, and the court ruled against miller (even tho he had died by then), citing the following opinions, within my summary:

The 2008 supreme court heller ruling was a political verdict, 5-4, and a subversion of the 2nd amendment by right wing demagogue justice scalia.
In 1939 the supreme court previously 'last' ruled on the 2ndA prior to heller, a unanimous 8-0 ruling (one recusal since new arrival) and offered these interpretations:

The Constitution, as originally adopted, granted to the Congress power -- "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress."
With obvious purpose to assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness of such {militia} forces, the declaration and guarantee of the Second Amendment were made. It must be interpreted and applied with that end in view.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/307/174/case.html

1939 miller cont'd, my edits: In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use {by jack miller} of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than 18 inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a {current} well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right {of jack miller} to keep and bear such an instrument

This 1939 supreme court ruling on miller was UNANIMOUS. Not one justice felt the above wording to be wrong or misleading about any individual rkba, they clearly called it for the militia interpretation. Not one justice thought 'whoa fellow justices, look how we worded that, future generations are gonna think we're ruling for a militia interpretation'. Nope, all thought it was proper wording, that it was indeed a militia interpretation.
{.. Note, the 9th recused justice later wrote a book or paper supporting gun control.}

Tack on an amicus brief citing adams, by the US justice dept in 1938 to the 1939 supreme court re miller: In the only other case in which the provisions of the National Firearms Act have been assailed as being in violation of the Second Amendment, the contention was summarily rejected as follows:
The second amendment to the Constitution, providing, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed," has no application to this act. The Constitution does not grant the privilege to racketeers and desperadoes to carry weapons of the character dealt with in the act. It {2ndA} refers to the militia, a protective force of government; to the collective body and not individual rights.
http://www.guncite.com/miller-brief.htm

Scalia kicked stare decisis (scotus bound by previous interpretations handed down thru the years), in the ass & the right wing put him on a pedestal.
The Militia Act of 1792, coming a mere 5 months after the 2ndA was enacted in bor, was intended to define what the 2nd amendment described - the well regulated militia part, how to drill when to meet. The Militia Act of 1792 was superseded under Teddy Roosevelt circa 1903, disestablishing the citizen's militia part & replacing the 1792 act with the US militia code which established the national guards & the unorganized militia.

US Militia code, circa 1903 under teddy roosevelt: 10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age.. et cetera:
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=206865

Note in class 2, the unorganized militia (99% of americans belong or belonged or will belong) does not meet the requirements of the 2nd amendment, in that, by definition, an unorganized militia is NOT well regulated. It could not possibly be what madison intended in 1791.
There is no 'well regulated' citizens militia today as envisioned by the bill of rights, the 2nd amendment is obsolete & antiquated. But still loved by gunnuts, as a false god.

Yup, Scalia's opinion in DC vs Heller enshrined something made up out of whole cloth RockRaven Aug 2019 #1
And Scalia in Heller literally got people killed in DC sharedvalues Aug 2019 #4
Money and power Buzz cook Aug 2019 #2
1939 scotus miller decision jimmy the one Aug 2019 #3
Can we change the name of this forum? "Gun control and made-up Republican RKBA"? sharedvalues Aug 2019 #5
Or better "Gun control and our well-organized militia" sharedvalues Aug 2019 #6
Consider this possibility: guillaumeb Aug 2019 #36
2ndA and slavery jimmy the one Aug 2019 #56
It's been considered here several times before, and shown to be false friendly_iconoclast Aug 2019 #63
I would like to see them back up this claim. gejohnston Aug 2019 #7
gun control hardly needed in 1790's jimmy the one Aug 2019 #8
not true gejohnston Aug 2019 #9
As you've seen, if ones' only strengths are 'repeated argument by assertion'... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2019 #11
the go to after gejohnston Aug 2019 #16
then 1792, and now 2019 jimmy the one Aug 2019 #12
Historial fact, gejohnston Aug 2019 #14
ad hoc u hoc et al hoc jimmy the one Aug 2019 #19
I made no such claim gejohnston Aug 2019 #37
henry dearborn's firearm census 1803 jimmy the one Aug 2019 #20
Estimated ownership gejohnston Aug 2019 #30
malcolm, far right wing gun guru jimmy the one Aug 2019 #21
Personal attack gejohnston Aug 2019 #27
his rebuttals leave me almost speechless jimmy the one Aug 2019 #34
I honestly don't care. gejohnston Aug 2019 #39
It's sad that you and 16 other people believe that law review articles actually have legal weight friendly_iconoclast Aug 2019 #10
A interesting article with an irredeemable flaw sarisataka Aug 2019 #13
So you agree the NRA changed the meaning of the 2nd Am sharedvalues Aug 2019 #17
I feel like a squirrel preparing for winter, sarisataka Aug 2019 #18
Shrug. The NRA is a domestic terror organization sharedvalues Aug 2019 #24
no irredeemable flaw, except by you jimmy the one Aug 2019 #22
Many words... I will use fewer sarisataka Aug 2019 #23
moot, miller jimmy the one Aug 2019 #25
Thank you. I didn't have the energy to deconstruct sarisataka's many misleading points sharedvalues Aug 2019 #29
1938 DoJ amicus brief to 1939 supreme court jimmy the one Aug 2019 #28
Wow. DOJ 1938: "2nd A does not grant to the people the right to keep and bear arms" sharedvalues Aug 2019 #32
And finally we come to agreement sarisataka Aug 2019 #40
? What? sharedvalues Aug 2019 #45
bor both guarantee of rights & limitation on congress jimmy the one Aug 2019 #49
We may be reaching the same point sarisataka Aug 2019 #41
scalia mischaracterized england's 'have arms' decree of 1689 jimmy the one Aug 2019 #43
wrong as usual gejohnston Aug 2019 #46
cognitive dissonance jimmy the one Aug 2019 #47
No, I said what the Miller decision said gejohnston Aug 2019 #48
just ask jimmy the one Aug 2019 #50
why aren't you citing the decision itself? gejohnston Aug 2019 #51
Obvious answer: Because, when read in full, it doesn't say what James claims it says. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2019 #52
defence, english style jimmy the one Aug 2019 #54
No contradiction there, save in your own mind friendly_iconoclast Aug 2019 #55
not mutually exclusive gejohnston Aug 2019 #57
plausible enough jimmy the one Aug 2019 #58
the comprehention problem is strictly yours, gejohnston Aug 2019 #60
based on england's 'assize of arms' jimmy the one Aug 2019 #53
What other right is a collective right? krispos42 Aug 2019 #15
But Scalia claimed to be an originalist. guillaumeb Aug 2019 #26
Yes. Scalia was a right-wing partisan and his "originalism" was just a front sharedvalues Aug 2019 #31
Scalia had an agenda, guillaumeb Aug 2019 #33
Oh no question, he was a judicial activist. Exactly sharedvalues Aug 2019 #35
Thomas is just as bad. So many conflicts of interest. eom guillaumeb Aug 2019 #38
Yes. His wife is an insane rightwing crazy. sharedvalues Aug 2019 #44
Funny, gejohnston Aug 2019 #42
Been following this melm00se Aug 2019 #59
Yes sharedvalues Aug 2019 #62
Yup. "Only slender support for individual right to own gun" sharedvalues Aug 2019 #64
This idea of a collective right is so interesting to me. MarvinGardens Aug 2019 #61
Considering the legal treatment of GLBT, minorities, women and minors SQUEE Aug 2019 #65
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