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Sancho

(9,073 posts)
10. It may not be as big a mystery as you describe...but it's certainly complex.
Mon Jul 27, 2015, 08:07 AM
Jul 2015

Last edited Mon Jul 27, 2015, 08:39 AM - Edit history (1)

if you study the broader topic of social justice, you can see it might include economic parts like distributive justice and retributive justice. Bernie tends to take the socialist position and concentrate on the economic problems and fixes. The world is so complex that other issues can become most important in the eyes of some groups with less focus on the economic piece.

Almost any inequity can become a cause that people will refer to as social justice. Racism, gender bias, age discrimination, health care, perceptions of "class", educational opportunity, voting rights, legal/criminal fairness, power, child protection/advocacy, and disability/special education rights have all become common topics. Even the right to "bear arms" is an issue of "justice" to some people, while some think gun control is "right" to be safe. Certainly, birth control and choice has entered the women's rights stage. Do you have a right to die with dignity? Do we have a "right" to protect the environment?

The progressive movement could be said to have started with women's right to vote, labor rights, and political reform. There was an economic effect, but that was not the original focus. There certainly is a socialist component to progressives, but the modern progressive movement covers a lot of ground!

Socialism, where Bernie comes from, is mostly focused on economic issues and fair distribution of wealth.

Liberalism usually concentrates on "freedoms" like speech, religion, or even free markets.

All these ideas, as you point out, interact with each other and overlap. I think it's fair to say that Bernie comes from the socialist perspective and puts less emphasis on other ideas. It's also fair to point out that Bernie comes at issues from a different view than others who perceive economic justice as less important than some other problem that they face.

There are LOTS of examples, but here in Florida you may be undocumented. Your child was born in the US. You have a job, money, and family. The child is a citizen and goes to school. You can't vote, drive, participate in SS, or anything else because if you are deported - what happens to the child?? Go with you back to a foreign land? Break up the family? That is the exact thing that happened to two employees I know the last year here. You could care less about TPP, Wall Street, or minimum wage. Half your family is here and are citizens. You only vote on one issue: path to citizenship!

Another real example. You are a black physician. You move to Florida and immediately find segregated schools. The real estate agents "steer" you into black neighborhoods. The country club and yacht club can't find anyone to endorse you for membership! You even get pulled over on the main road into the neighborhood. I'm talking about a black doctor who lives in my neighborhood TODAY! You don't care about economic inequity!! You are very interested that the University of Florida is 95% white, the school board is 95% white, and voting districts are gerrymandered! You want legal and political justice.

In other words, Bernie speaks to a segment of America, but he needs to broaden his message as he moves to the sunbelt states. Frankly, Hillary tends to be less dynamic, but fits a larger set of issues in the eyes of many people. I think the Democratic party problem is that it's hard to put all the ideas in one basket.

Labels (like progressive, liberal, and social justice) don't help if they become a reason for name calling. I'm sure Bernie will face GOP attacks as a "socialist" or even "communist" if he gets to a general election. The recent criticisms of Bernie's platform as "missing the boat on my issue" were predictable (and some on DU mentioned it long before Netroots). If Bernie adapts, he will do better - but it will be tough because he has been labeled already by his own history. All candidates have to live with the past even if it's not fair.

It's interesting that Obama avoided a lot of criticism because he had a short and limited history, so the GOP had to resort to making up stuff (like birth certificates). It helped Obama that people could not find a reason to vote against him. As an economist, Obama has been moderate at best, but that was not clear going into his original election.





This was all done to give that smug turd Chuck Todd a reason to ask stupid questions. gordianot Jul 2015 #1
two sides of the same coin noiretextatique Jul 2015 #2
strategic divide and conquer by some candidates and their supporters. nt magical thyme Jul 2015 #5
indeed noiretextatique Jul 2015 #23
It has to be a part of the plan/modus operandi Android3.14 Jul 2015 #3
Then we should get united over race. gollygee Jul 2015 #40
divide and conquer magical thyme Jul 2015 #4
Hey…. MrMickeysMom Jul 2015 #6
+1 n/t Bonhomme Richard Jul 2015 #7
because it's a wedge issue on which Hillary can get the upper hand Doctor_J Jul 2015 #8
Social Justice is a wedge issue? JoePhilly Jul 2015 #14
there is a group that is making it one Doctor_J Jul 2015 #16
it's much easier for party centrists to focus on identity politics nashville_brook Jul 2015 #20
Your response demonstrates that you still don't get it ... JoePhilly Jul 2015 #25
{Sighhh} ... How many times does this need to be said and in how many different ways ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #27
I'm going to tell you .... JoePhilly Jul 2015 #28
Now see? ... There you go ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #32
Here? zappaman Jul 2015 #31
K&R blackspade Jul 2015 #9
It may not be as big a mystery as you describe...but it's certainly complex. Sancho Jul 2015 #10
Cotton and polyester are very distinct things but once those fibers are blended TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #11
bernie called them parallel issues restorefreedom Jul 2015 #12
There is a great deal of overlap, but they are separate gollygee Jul 2015 #13
There is a very long history.... Adrahil Jul 2015 #15
The richest black man in town is still pulled over more often, incarerated more often Sheepshank Jul 2015 #17
I agree artislife Jul 2015 #22
Systemic racism and income inequality do reinforce each other Baitball Blogger Jul 2015 #18
Because it allows marginalization of one of the candidates n/t whatchamacallit Jul 2015 #19
This has been ongoing for several years AgingAmerican Jul 2015 #21
Who benefits from this false dichotomy? Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #24
Right Wing Dems Teamster Jeff Jul 2015 #29
This tells some of the horrors far too many face AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #26
I invite you to read (re-read) Dr. King's ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #30
He didn't say it in Other America because it's a different speech. jeff47 Jul 2015 #33
Well. I went to the speech that the OP cited ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #35
IMO, he was speaking of the need for both fights. jeff47 Jul 2015 #36
True ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #37
And whether those previous words were the totality of his plans jeff47 Jul 2015 #38
I think it's significant that earlier in the speech you cited ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #39
Yep, they are two fights. Somewhat complimentary, but two fights. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2015 #42
And, though it cuts against the dominant DU 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #43
We seem to have two pools of people talking past each other. jeff47 Jul 2015 #44
I see it a little differently ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #45
Bernie Sanders and his supporters... malokvale77 Jul 2015 #34
I quit arguing they shouldn't be separated days ago. Just do what is right on both issues. mmonk Jul 2015 #41
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