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Midnightwalk

(3,131 posts)
15. No it isn't obvious at all
Sun Feb 16, 2020, 01:11 PM
Feb 2020

Lichtenstein has like 38 thousand people. Luxembourg and Montenegro have 500k and 600k people which is the same size as vermont.

There are articles on why it failed. Here’s 4 reasons from Forbes. (There’s 6 but I think I’m limited to 4 clips?)



1. Vermont insisted on platinum-plated insurance coverage

2. ‘We can move full speed ahead…without knowing where the money’s coming from’

3. The Vermont plan would have required a 160 percent tax increase

4. Hospitals and insurance companies had every reason to fight the plan


[link:https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/12/21/6-reasons-why-vermonts-single-payer-health-plan-was-doomed-from-the-start|]

More from the Washington Post
[link:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/why-vermonts-single-payer-effort-failed-and-what-democrats-can-learn-from-it/2019/04/29/c9789018-3ab8-11e9-a2cd-307b06d0257b_story.html%3foutputType=amp|]
“What I learned the hard way,” Shumlin said, “is it isn’t just about reforming the broken payment system. Public financing will not work until you get costs under control.”

.....

“I see no evidence from the Medicare-for-all advocacy community of a serious effort to understand and learn from the lessons from Vermont’s failure,” said John McDonough, who was a senior aide to Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) and is now a professor at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. “Those who ignore history are cursed to repeat it.”

....

By then, the computer runs kept showing that the only way to set taxes at rates as low as they were striving for was to provide skimpier coverage than most insured Vermonters already had.


I cherry picked some provocative paragraphs. The article is worth reading in my opinion.

I agree we need universal coverage. I think medicare for all is the most politically divisive way to get there. Step one in my opinion is to get a public option up and running so that we don’t have to tell people trust us. We can say it’s these benefits that are delivered today. Go after cutting costs immediately by pharmaceutical reform. Fix some of the other gouging such as the out of network scam. Lower costs will make further coverage reform easier too

Medicare for all is not Medicare so we can’t point to that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
Vermont flatly rejected a version of "Medicare for all" because it was too expensive..... George II Feb 2020 #1
It can't work statewide, particularly in a small state. CTyankee Feb 2020 #2
Just about all of those countries also have private insurance available and.... George II Feb 2020 #4
You're asking millions of people to take a chance by giving up what OnDoutside Feb 2020 #8
actually, no, I'm not, even tho it can work. At this point, it's too late to ask that. CTyankee Feb 2020 #13
Of course it CAN work, but it can't work when at least 43% of the voting public vote for a party OnDoutside Feb 2020 #33
Canada has approx 38 million citizens. UK approx 66 million. boston bean Feb 2020 #11
California and Colorado backed off once they studied the costs. Legislators didn't have guts to Hoyt Feb 2020 #14
No it isn't obvious at all Midnightwalk Feb 2020 #15
Your statements are contradictory. Blue_true Feb 2020 #38
wonderful history! I think you are right about Europe. However, we are alone in the entire CTyankee Feb 2020 #39
I believe that like minded states banding together to set up their own system will Blue_true Feb 2020 #41
If he does, after godhelpus he gets reelected, it will be a great tool in our ads against him. CTyankee Feb 2020 #44
Difficult to provide a healthcare system that was hijacked by wall street democratisphere Feb 2020 #3
You can't make everything free bucolic_frolic Feb 2020 #5
Yikes! Laelth Feb 2020 #7
Canada has approx 38 million citizens. UK approx 66 million. boston bean Feb 2020 #12
Have the Canadians been asked whether they would like our health care system? CTyankee Feb 2020 #16
Not that I know of. boston bean Feb 2020 #17
Britain has been privatizing. Don't cite them at least. Their healthcare is a nightmare. emmaverybo Feb 2020 #27
Overuse is an interesting problem Midnightwalk Feb 2020 #18
That's so true. Actually in the UK (and Ireland), they brought in a prescription charge to make OnDoutside Feb 2020 #34
Credit where it is due. Laelth Feb 2020 #6
What I don't like is when someone uses M4A as a cudgel against other candidates. Scurrilous Feb 2020 #20
I hear that and agree with the sentiment. n/t Laelth Feb 2020 #21
Thanks. Scurrilous Feb 2020 #24
And when this goes nowhere the DAMAGE that it will do to the Democratic party will be mighty. nt UniteFightBack Feb 2020 #9
To be truthful Biden, not a lot has happened in the last 35 years for average and poor America. Autumn Feb 2020 #10
Republicans lost so badly in the midterms largely because of the damage they did to the ACA, and OnDoutside Feb 2020 #35
Joe was great on Meet the Press Gothmog Feb 2020 #19
Good to know! Cha Feb 2020 #22
There was concern expressed on another thread that he looked tired. Scurrilous Feb 2020 #28
They were talking out of the left side of their butt. That was clear and to the point. OnDoutside Feb 2020 #36
Yep. Scurrilous Feb 2020 #37
Thoughtful. Genuine. Relates the big picture. Not policy-bound, strapped to a suite of plans emmaverybo Feb 2020 #29
The Revolution comes first. dalton99a Feb 2020 #23
Per minute? Scurrilous Feb 2020 #25
Joe's timing is off to make this claim now Tom Rinaldo Feb 2020 #26
His timing is perfect. He needs to score in Nevada. Fair for Bernie to make points against emmaverybo Feb 2020 #30
Oh of course Biden needs to "differentiate" now and it is absolutely fair for him to do so. Tom Rinaldo Feb 2020 #31
Maybe if Joe and other Democrats had been fighting for it too instead of Sanders being the loan wolf Quixote1818 Feb 2020 #32
Affordable Care Act, anyone? If this country had the sense God gave a flea & elected a Dem Senate Hekate Feb 2020 #43
If they couldn't even pass Obamacare with a public option TexasBushwhacker Feb 2020 #40
Rainbows and unicorns... the usual Burnie bull$hit. Still In Wisconsin Feb 2020 #42
What an asinine statement. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2020 #45
President Obama landed on the moon March 23, 2010. Scurrilous Feb 2020 #46
I agree with Joe DesertRat Feb 2020 #47
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