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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 09:36 AM Original message |
Libya: Zuma Says Gaddafi Ready for Truce. NATO & Islamic Militants "Not Interested" |
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dipsydoodle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 09:42 AM Response to Original message |
1. Yes - A compliant regime will be installed. |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:12 AM Response to Reply #1 |
6. No way in hell. |
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PurityOfEssence (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 04:09 PM Response to Reply #6 |
54. Bullshit. He threatened nationalization in 2009 and cut the French percentage of the take |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 05:59 PM Response to Reply #54 |
58. Exactly. The terms that Gaddafi's Gov offered were not appreciated by Western Oil Conglomerates. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 07:54 PM Response to Reply #54 |
62. Nonsense, it was already nationalized and they got extended contracts for years... |
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PurityOfEssence (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:18 PM Response to Reply #62 |
71. They went from being able to keep 50% of what was produced to 27% |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:22 PM Response to Reply #71 |
73. 50% of 100 is a lot smaller than 10% of 10000. |
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PurityOfEssence (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:51 PM Response to Reply #73 |
79. When the threat of nationalization is seriously used for leverage, it's a different game |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 11:06 PM Response to Reply #79 |
80. Oh, no, of course oil interests exist, that's irrelevant to the people who rose up. |
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PurityOfEssence (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-01-11 12:32 AM Response to Reply #80 |
84. Who's talking about THEIR motivations? I'm talking about ours. |
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dionysus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 09:43 AM Response to Original message |
2. you'll be sad to see him go, thats for sure. |
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SDuderstadt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:02 AM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Why, dionysus! |
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dionysus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:03 AM Response to Reply #4 |
5. why SDuderstadt, i didn't know you was back in town. |
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SDuderstadt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:27 AM Response to Reply #5 |
9. Oh, dionysus... |
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dionysus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:49 AM Response to Reply #9 |
10. t-thank you. |
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SDuderstadt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:53 AM Response to Reply #10 |
14. Leave the... |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:22 AM Response to Reply #2 |
8. Always sad to see ruthless, racist, imperialist buchery. I protest it and face guns and bullets as |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 03:45 PM Response to Reply #2 |
47. I faced guns and bullets in the anti-imperialists struggle. Gaddafi's Libya aided this struggle |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 03:52 PM Response to Reply #2 |
48. I guess in the same way you were sad when Saddam was let go. Right? |
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dionysus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 04:33 PM Response to Reply #48 |
56. whatever you say champ. |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:00 AM Response to Original message |
3. Qaddafi not prepared to leave Libya, South African presidency says |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:19 AM Response to Reply #3 |
7. Obama not prepared to leave America. Mandela not prepared to leave South Africa |
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thewiseguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:51 AM Response to Reply #7 |
12. So Mandela and Obama are equal to Gaddafi in your opinion? Racism? |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 11:01 AM Response to Reply #12 |
15. There is a habit of imperialist bullies with no moral standing telling others to "get out" or "go |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 11:49 AM Response to Reply #12 |
17. Leaders. There's nothing racist in the comparison. |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:14 PM Response to Reply #17 |
23. Apples and Oranges |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:36 PM Response to Reply #23 |
30. No and that's precisely how this stuff happens over and over and over, |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:49 PM Response to Reply #30 |
33. I agree with you about Iraq and Afghanistan |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 01:16 PM Response to Reply #33 |
42. Johnson, Carter, Clinton and Obama have all been involved in regime change. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 04:19 PM Response to Reply #33 |
55. So you think Sadaam HR record compares favorably to Gaddafi's??? Get a memory! |
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Ikonoklast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:00 PM Response to Reply #7 |
19. Yes, elections...as long as Qaddafi has been in power, now he wants free elections. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 05:36 PM Response to Reply #19 |
57. An political reform and elections planning committee began 4 year ago. A few militant factions |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 07:53 PM Response to Reply #57 |
61. Bullshit, Saif backed down from that, *and* they backed down from a stipend from oil income. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:53 AM Response to Reply #3 |
13. Tabatha, I think you skipped the most relevant part of that report |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 11:50 AM Response to Reply #13 |
18. The Libyans are already talking amongst themselves. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:52 PM Response to Reply #18 |
35. Tabatha, you are smart enough to know war propaganda when you see it. Use your head. Think |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:53 PM Response to Reply #35 |
37. Deleted message |
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 01:57 PM Response to Reply #37 |
45. You don't have to be a Gaddafi shill to recognize a pattern of behavior |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:51 AM Response to Original message |
11. recommend. |
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dipsydoodle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 11:44 AM Response to Original message |
16. Kick. |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:09 PM Response to Original message |
20. Qaddafi's forces are leaving him, his sphere of influence is shrinking, he has to hide out now. |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:11 PM Response to Reply #20 |
21. lol. "genocide". uh, right. |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:12 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. What was Gaddafi going to do in Misrata and Benghazi if the rebels and NATO hadn't stopped him? |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:24 PM Response to Reply #22 |
25. your misuse of the english language = war crime. |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 01:21 PM Response to Reply #22 |
43. Pretty much what the US did to Fallujah.. |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:16 PM Response to Reply #21 |
24. That is exactly what Gaddafi's defected military are saying. |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:24 PM Response to Reply #24 |
26. i can't help it if he, like you, doesn't know what genocide means. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:25 PM Response to Reply #26 |
27. Deleted message |
Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:27 PM Response to Reply #27 |
28. "your guy" = more spin from the spin factory. and fuck the cia-sponsored "rebels". |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:52 PM Response to Reply #26 |
36. I really don't give a flying fig about the literal |
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PurityOfEssence (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 04:02 PM Response to Reply #36 |
51. Summary: those on the 'good' side may distort as they please |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-01-11 03:38 AM Response to Reply #36 |
85. lol. the voice of the propagandist. the meaning of words doesn't matter. |
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sendero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 07:58 PM Response to Reply #20 |
64. +100 |
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bluestate10 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:06 PM Response to Reply #20 |
66. The Brits are putting bunker busting bombs into the fight. |
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Modern_Matthew (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:29 PM Response to Original message |
29. We must ignore him to keep the bombs falling. There's no such thing as a truce... |
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center rising (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:41 PM Response to Original message |
31. Any truce that has Gaddafi still in power is unacceptable. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:44 PM Response to Reply #31 |
32. Because regime change has always worked out so well for us |
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tabatha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 12:51 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. One place it worked |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 01:09 PM Response to Reply #34 |
38. In South Africa! Funny!! The Western powers propped up the racists to the end |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 01:14 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. At Cal during our protests, we had every kind of Fed instigator |
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PurityOfEssence (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 04:06 PM Response to Reply #40 |
52. Certainly some fishiness was going on; I was there then, too... |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 01:13 PM Response to Reply #34 |
39. The American government was not responsible for the fall |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 01:42 PM Response to Reply #34 |
44. Tabatha, So you believe Western military intervention caused Black Majority Gov. in South Africa?? |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 07:49 PM Response to Reply #31 |
59. It has always been. The devout islamic militant opposition view him as a heretic and have refused |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 07:55 PM Response to Reply #59 |
63. Devout islamic militant opposition? |
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Canuckistanian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:19 PM Response to Reply #31 |
72. Or even the possibility of Gaddafi remaining NEAR power |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:28 PM Response to Reply #72 |
76. Agreed, and if somehow he is proven innocent in the ICC he can return like so many other tyrants... |
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Canuckistanian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 10:02 PM Response to Reply #76 |
78. Really. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 01:16 PM Response to Original message |
41. The West wants the banks and the oil. Gaddafi wants them for the Libyans. He's doomed. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 02:30 PM Response to Original message |
46. Mandella Supported Gaddafi. It is DELUSIONAL to compare Madella's struggle to Libyan rebel cause |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 03:55 PM Response to Reply #46 |
50. Has he said anything about his behaviour in 2011? Desmond Tutu says he has to go |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 04:07 PM Response to Reply #50 |
53. We all share Tutu's sentiment in what you cite. We don't support the murderous Western solution |
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Doctor_J (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 03:54 PM Response to Original message |
49. Saddam tried to surrender too |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 07:52 PM Response to Original message |
60. Islamic militants? What islamic militants? |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:10 PM Response to Reply #60 |
67. Islamist who take up armed insurection and say things like: |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:12 PM Response to Reply #67 |
69. They speak for all the rebels? I see no evidence for that. |
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bluestate10 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:10 PM Response to Reply #60 |
68. Fantasy islamic militants. They are the worse kind. They hide under |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:12 PM Response to Reply #68 |
70. I know, it's overt racism, I'm just seeing if he can justify it this time. |
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PurityOfEssence (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 11:24 PM Response to Reply #70 |
82. That was most uncalled for |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 11:30 PM Response to Reply #82 |
83. Fair minded? |
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bluestate10 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:00 PM Response to Original message |
65. Gaddafi is a butcherous liar. Why should NATO believe that monster? nt |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:22 PM Response to Reply #65 |
74. Guess you contradict the Defense and Intelligence testimony prior to decision for war |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:26 PM Response to Reply #74 |
75. The decision to stay out of it and remain in a logistics role? |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 08:44 PM Response to Reply #75 |
77. No, that the claims of the militants could not be substantiated by intel |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-31-11 11:09 PM Response to Reply #77 |
81. Oh, those claims by that one idiot who wrote that shitty article being against R2P. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-01-11 12:18 PM Response to Reply #81 |
86. Much of the summaries and testimony from the Council on Foreign Relations draws same conclusion: |
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