Reply #72: well I'm confused [View All]

You said:

I'd say we learned that this is another failure of state agencies and the medical community to keep their records updated.

Here's what was reported in a news item quoted earlier:

State rules on concealed-weapons permits and federal guidelines on who can possess a gun address mental illness. The state concealed-weapons rules ask whether the applicant has been confined in a mental-health facility for more than 14 days for treatment or committed as criminally insane. Even if an applicant answers "yes," there is an opportunity to explain the circumstances or provide evidence of rehabilitation. The federal guidelines ban anyone who is addicted to drugs or is "of unsound mind" from possessing a gun...

NICS, as I understand it, should contain info about (a) criminal convictions, (b) restraining orders, (c) adjudications of mental incompetence, and (d) committals to a psychiatric institution for dangerousness (to the person's self or others).

Here we go. The FBI also says -- in relation to firearms purchases:

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nicsindex.htm

5) Persons who are unlawful users of or addicted to any controlled substance

Criteria for Entry

The Department of Defense, the U.S. Coast Guard, and state law enforcement have the authority to enter and update records on persons who have been unlawful users of or addicted to any controlled substance.

Do we know that "state law enforcement" had that information? As between doctor and patient, unless there is a mandatory reporting provision, it's privileged information. (There may well be some sort of mandatory reporting to somewhere for methadone programs, but to NICS?)

I would think that the same would be very definitely true of treatment for schizophrenia. That is privileged information. I know that if I wanted my doctor telling the world and its dog that I was being treated for schizophrenia, I'd be sure to let her know.

And there's that hole. If you have a psychosis and are vulnerable to delusions to which you respond with violence, but have never been committed to an institution, you're not in the NICS system.

And we know my position on that: anyone wishing to acquire a firearm should perhaps be required to furnish a medical report showing that s/he does not have such a disqualifying condition, but no one's medical records should be released to a government agency (like your NICS system) for purposes that have nothing to do with his/her own interests, i.e. in the case of a person who never in his/her life wishes to acquire a firearm. That is quite simply an appalling breach of privacy.

The thing is, in this case, that he doesn't seem to fall within the mental health reporting requirement in the NICS system:

3) Persons who have been adjudicated as a mental defective or have been committed to a mental institution

He was just asked a question on a form, about which he apparently chose to lie -- or possibly, although not very probably, told the truth with an explanation and it was accepted.

Oh, pardon me -- I would guess that the authority responsible for issuing the permit IS NOT ALLOWED to access the NICS system for that purpose. Would that be right?

Ask 'em a few questions, give 'em the permit to carry a concealed weapon, and if they aren't eligible to purchase one, well, there are always gun shows and the classifieds.


You know how you folks don't want George Dubya Bush's government being in charge of something like a firearms registry? and how that's one of the big arguments against it -- big bad gumming not gonna get my name?

Well imagine how some other folks feel about the keystone-cop arrangement for issuing concealed firearms permits that this looks like. Big dumb gummint not gonna send people with guns out onto their streets, I think might be what they're thinking.