Reply #55: No he wasn't.. [View All]

madfloridian, once again, I am going to post the facts of the BK bill, in an effort to stop the lies being perpetrated here. If other people want to know the facts, please read the whole post.

First of all, this bill has NOT inhibited legitimate people from filing for BK's. In fact, BK's are on the rise. If what YOU said was true, they'd be going down, not up. Here are the latest statistics;

Chapter 7 bankruptcies continue its steady rise since the new bankruptcy laws went into effect in October of 2005.
Chapter 7 quarterly filings have been as follows:
Quarter Ended:# of Chapter 7 filings
March 31, 200663,548
June 30, 200691,674
September 31, 200696,442
December 31, 200699,446
March 31, 2007117,830<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
June 30, 2007131,039<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

And, here is who filed;
Average age: 38;
44% of filers are couples;
30% are women filing alone;<<<<<<<<<<
26% are men filing alone;
Slightly better educated than the general population;
Two out of three have lost a job;
Half have experienced a serious health problem;
Fewer than 9% have not suffered a job loss, medical event or divorce;
Highest bankruptcy rates: Tennessee, Utah, Georgia, Alabama.

And, here's a stupid part;

A family earning $24,000 had an average of $36,000 in credit card and similar debt.

Now, you tell me, why should I feel sorry for someone who made the decision to take out that much credit, knowing they had NO VIABLE way to pay it back. That's what I mean when I say people don't live within their means. If you don't make enough money to pay your bills, and buy things, how the hell can you EVER pay a credit card bill??


Yes, there is a means test now, however, it doesn't seem to be inhibiting ANY BK;
Means test for Chapter 7
Although the intent of the law was to make it more difficult for individuals to file for bankruptcy under Chapter 7, under which most of their debts are forgiven (or discharged) and to force individuals to file under Chapter 13 under which part of all of the debts are repaid under a plan, it has, in practice, not substantially made a large effect. Approximately 85% of debtors are not subject to its "means test" and a large percentage of the rest are able to "pass" the means test.(meaning, it doesn't affect that many people)

Under the old law, filers had a presumption of eligibility to file under Chapter 7, with the final determination made by bankruptcy judges, who evaluated the specific nature of each bankruptcy. In lieu of this judicial discretion, the new law substitutes a means test to determine whether filers have enough income to pay some portion of their debts, and thus file under Chapter 13.

The means test applies to filers whose gross income (based on the six month period prior to filing), is above the median income in their state (ranging from $72,451 in Massachusetts to $42,290 in West Virginia, as of 2005). Individuals whose incomes are below the median automatically qualify for Chapter 7. Filers whose incomes are above the median must then calculate their Disposable Monthly Income (DMI) to determine whether they are able to make payments on their debts sufficient to qualify them for Chapter 13. The DMI is determined by subtracting priority debt payments, secured debt payments, Internal Revenue Service determined expense allowances, taxes and certain other expenses from a filer’s monthly income. If the DMI is less than $100 per month, they are permitted to file under Chapter 7. If the DMI is above $100, they must file under Chapter 13.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_Abuse_Preventio...




AND, if you all knew anything, at-all, about BK's, you'd know that most companies file chapter 11. None of them get off for free, which I have explained below.

And here are the 10 largest companies that filed since 1980;
TOT. ASSETS PRE-BANK. ($MIL)
Kmart1/22/2002$17,007.00
Federated Dept. Stores1/15/1990$7,913.00
Montgomery Ward Holding Corp.7/7/1997$4,879.00
Macy (R.H.) & Co. Inc.1/27/1992$4,812.00
Allied Stores Corp. 1/15/1990$3,502.00
Southland Corp.10/24/1990$3,439.00
Ames Department Stores4/25/1990$2,130.00
The Circle K Corp.5/15/1990$2,045.00
Carter Hawley Hale Stores2/11/1991$2,045.00
Ames Department Stores Inc.8/20/2001$1,975.29
Revco D.S. Inc.7/28/1988$1,844.00

All of these companies filed chapter 11. Meaning they REORGANIZE, and pay back debt. They do NOT get to write it all off.

World Com, the largest BK-ever, filed a chapter 11. Meaning they also REORGANIZED. Once a company files Chapter 11, ALL major financial decisions must be made by the bankruptcy court. Secured creditors are paid first, followed by unsecured creditors, and then, the company stockholders. In A Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, the U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission makes sure that the corporation is not withholding information. I see no way here for any company to get off scott free.


If you hate Joe Biden FINE. But stop the lies, and making it sound like he did a bad thing to people. He voted for this bill for ONE reason. That reason was clearly stated, in his address, on the Senate Floor, and is as follows;

March 10, 2005
Statement

Floor Statement: Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005

Mr. BIDEN. Mr. President, several years ago, when we were considering this legislation, I spoke here on the Senate floor about some important provisions that I think have been overlooked in our discussions. In my remarks today I will repeat what I said back then, in March of 2001.

We have heard a lot in recent days about how this bill lacks compassion--specifically, that it will hurt women and children who depend on alimony and child support.

Critics claim that by making sure that more money is paid back to other creditors, this bill will make it harder for women and children to get what is coming to them.

I am particularly proud of my record of protecting women and children during my career in the Senate. That record includes the Violence Against Women Act to protect women threatened by domestic violence.

I am here again today to show that, contrary to a lot of the rhetoric that has been tossed around, this bill actually improves the situation of women and children who depend on child support. It specifically targets the problems they face under the current bankruptcy system into a virtual extension of the current national family support collection system.

There may be other aspects of this legislation that we can debate: the balance between creditors and debtors, between different kinds of creditors, or between different kinds of debtors. But on the question of child support and alimony, there should be no dispute.

Because this bill strengthens the collection of alimony. Period.



What is so wrong with that? NOTHING.

Now, let's address the credit card rates, again.

First of all, credit cards are totally voluntary. No one forces anyone to get a card. Secondly, your "rate" depends on a lot of factors. Your current income to debt ratio, your ability to pay, your credit history, the way you currently pay your credit cards, and how much you owe every other creditor, and how long you have owed them. If you're not happy with the "rates", then by all means, pay them off and close them, or, if qualified, transfer to a lower rate card company.
CREDIT CARDS ARE OPTIONAL. Use them or not. If you do use them, you are RESPONSIBLE for the debt.


And, how about this comment;

Hurricane Katrina bankruptcies
"Jim Sensenbrenner, Republican chairman of the House Judiciary Committee noted "If someone in Katrina is down and out, and has no possibility of being able to repay 40 percent or more of their debts, then the new bankruptcy law doesn't apply".
The Justice Department's US Trustee program has since said it would relax the strict Chapter 7 rules for disaster victims, including those affected by Hurricane Katrina. The Justice Department trustees oversee the administration of bankruptcy cases, and have discretion in ruling over bankruptcy filings. They also said the trustees would not challenge debtors who couldn't meet paperwork requirements because documents were destroyed by the hurricane, and that victims of Hurricane Katrina may skip the credit counseling requirement before filing."

The bottom line is this, you are getting your opinion, from someone else's opinion, I am getting MY information from FACTS that exist on the internet, if someone would choose to do the research and seek the truth. If you persist in this asinine attack even after I have shown you facts to clearly dispute your lies, then you need other professional help.

Every time this topic pops up again, I am going to post this. The lies and spin have to stop. BK's cost EACH one of us $400.00 a YEAR in increased cost. I'd think people would appreciate having that money BACK in their pockets, but maybe that's just me.