Reply #83: I think we're more on the same side now than you think. [View All]

But using words like extremists, and taking a thread that was a dump on Republicans and making it about the Left (as you did the other day) does not help. I know the Left pisses you off, but at least they're going after people to their right (that's not to say that all the complaints from the Left are automatically valid). You have enemies on both sides of you, and that's the way it goes being a centrist. You can complain about people on either side of you or try to co-op them. Which do you agree with more, liberal ideas or conservative ones? If you don't like being stuck in the crossfire then pick a side and stand for it, strongly. That's all the Left is really asking for. Truly.

That doesn't mean you have to convert to a Kucinich fan, but there should be far more common ground between him and you than there is between McCain and you (and I'm guessing there is, as you don't strike me as much of a McCain fan, or much of a conservative). As I said, I think we're on the same side more than you think, yet you consistently try to equate the Right and the Left as being the same. It's flat out wrong, for one, and intellectually dishonest, for two. Liberals don't ban books, they don't promote wars, they don't take away rights, they don't do the shit that the Right does, period. You are saying this to protect a politician you like and admire, and that's understandable, but the end result is still flat out wrong.

And neither of those comments you spoke of are extremist, and neither defies logic. Given the influence that the Tea Party has gained it's clear there was a demand for someone who appeared more conservative (I say "appeared" because to me McCain was already there). I also believe that the message that Obama ran on appealed greatly to many on the Left, but there are many instances where what he said and what he's done don't mesh, and that's where much of the trouble is coming in. The Left is still taking the exact same stance it has all along. The Left was against warrantless wiretapping, they were against the wars in the Middle East, etc. They still are. But there are many centrists who said they hated these things when Bush was doing them, and now no longer seem all that bothered by them. The Left has been consistent, the center not so much. If it was allowed I could rattle off many names of people here who were very vocal about these issues when Bush was in office, but who now defend them.

The Left didn't abandon Obama in 2010, despite a lot of the rhetoric online. Liberals, which includes those like me on the left, turned out to vote in excellent numbers in 2010. Obama lost many independents however, who are a notoriously fickle bunch (which is why I believe it would be best to shore up the Left flank before trying to appeal to them...it provides more wiggle room when you have a solid flank). As Independents are all over the political spectrum, both the claim that he was too liberal and not liberal enough could apply depending on which Independent you ask. They should be sought after along with the Left, not at the expense of the Left.

Neither point defies logic at all, and just because you may not personally agree with an assessment doesn't mean it's extremist or beyond logic. You can open your mind without having to agree with said position.