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Reading this transcript is almost as difficult as reading freeper-speak. "Okay, let me start off a little bit by answering some questions...." Duh, shouldn't that have been "let me start off by making a statement? NO QUESTIONS HAD BEEN ASKED, GEORGE! --------------------------------------------- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12570-2005Jan15.htmlSunday, January 16, 2005; Following is the White House transcript of The Washington Post's interview with President Bush, conducted by staff writers Michael A. Fletcher and Jim VandeHei Friday aboard Air Force One en route to Jacksonville, Fla.: THE PRESIDENT: Okay, let me start off a little bit by answering some questions. I'm looking forward to the inauguration. I'm going to be able to absorb a lot more of the sights, sounds, the drama this time. I think last time I was in awe of the whole moment. Having done it once, if experience is any judge -- the convention experience is any judge about this, I'm really looking forward to kind of being as much a participant and observer at the same time -- a much more heady observer. I'm excited about the second term. I worked hard to get there, and campaigned on some specific issues that I'm looking forward to working with the Congress on. Priorities for the second term: of course, win the war on terror, spread freedom and democracy. And at home, reform systems that will say that we have recognized we've got problems for future generations that we intend to deal with. One is Social Security, one is the tax system. As well, I'm mindful of the twin deficits we face. The fiscal deficit -- we will address the fiscal deficit in two ways: one, by submitting a budget that will continue to keep the pledge of cutting the deficit in half by five years, and secondly, addressing some of the unfunded liabilities inherent in the fiscal budget. In terms of the current account deficit, the best way to deal with that is to, one, ensure that currencies around the world are market driven, not controlled by state, and secondly, at home, is to make America an attractive place for people to take risk, a place to invest. That's one of the reasons why I've started talking about legal reform early. One way to make sure America is the best place in the world to do business and the best place in the world to attract capital, therefore, is to reform our legal system. I'm taking on three issues: asbestos reform, class action and medical liability reform. Today I'm going to be talking about education. We need an energy bill. I'm looking forward to working with the Congress to get an energy bill. We'll continue to be a free trade administration. So those are issues I'm looking forward to working with Congress on, as well. And I'm excited about it -- you can clearly see where I think the country needs to go. I told that to the people when I was running, and I'm looking forward to leading the Congress. Why don't we start with some questions? The Post: There was this report -- it was reported in the papers this morning -- from the National Intelligence Council. Always by our front-page stories. (Laughter.) Right there. And it essentially says that Iraq has become a terrorist breeding ground, it's created terrorists who are going to take those new terrorist talents and go elsewhere after the war. Is this at all contradicting your assertion that you're always making America safer from terrorists? THE PRESIDENT: The report -- and I welcome these studies -- basically says America must stay on the offense. And there are two ways to stay on the offense. One, use our intelligence services, as well as the intelligence services of friends and allies, to find people and bring them to justice before they hurt us, and secondly, to spread freedom. And it's a -- I think the report was somewhat speculative; this could happen. And I agree. If we're not diligent and firm, there will be pockets of -- parts of the world that become pockets for terrorists to find safe haven and to train. And we have a duty to disrupt that. I firmly believe that a free Iraq will be a major defeat for the Salafist movement and the extremist movement, those who want to use terror as a weapon to impose their will on millions of people throughout the world. The Post: Secretary Powell said this week that American troops will begin leaving Iraq this year. Is that true? THE PRESIDENT: The way I would put it is, American troops will be leaving as quickly as possible, but they won't be leaving until we have completed our mission. And part of the mission is to train Iraqis so they can fight the terrorists. And the sooner the Iraqis are prepared -- better prepared, better equipped to fight -- the sooner our troops will start coming home. The Post: Can you be sure that by the end of your second term, that there will be a significant reduction? THE PRESIDENT: I'm still on the, as quick as possible. The Post: Do you disagree with Colin Powell's assessment, then, that he thinks it can be done? THE PRESIDENT: My assessment is, is that we will -- one of the reasons why the military sent an assessment team to Iraq recently was to assess our training mission, because success in Iraq will depend upon the Iraqis defeating the enemy. And so we're constantly assessing to see whether -- where we can improve training, how we can do things better, and what the Iraqis think they need, in order to do their job. And so the troops have been helping to provide as much security as possible for the elections. The political process is going on. And at the same time, doing their job and training these Iraqis. So we're constantly assessing, and that's what this is. The panel will report back to determine how best to train the Iraqis. My answer to your question is, as soon as possible, based upon fulfilling the mission. The elections -- I am pleased that the elections are going forward. I recognize that there are a group of terrorists trying to stop the election process. I have been amazed by the spirit of the Iraqi people. There's a big front-page story; I'm sure you read that. Please don't tell me you haven't. The Post: I read them all. THE PRESIDENT: Please don't tell me you haven't. The Post: Read them all. THE PRESIDENT: But there is a spirit there that I appreciate. And I talked to President Yawar today. I talked to Prime Minister Allawi earlier in the week. And they recognize that the terrorists are mean and tough, but they also are focused and determined that these elections go forward. And it is that determination which impresses me. So the political process is unfolding. And it is a process. In other words, this is the election of an assembly, which will choose leadership. And out of that leadership will, obviously, become -- we'll work to develop -- further refine the security strategy, as well as watch a process unfold that will write a constitution. And it's important for people to understand that. Unlike our system, that has "the election," and it defines what America -- how America will be governed for four years, this is a process. The Post: In Iraq, there's been a steady stream of surprises. We weren't welcomed as liberators, as Vice President Cheney had talked about. We haven't found the weapons of mass destruction as predicted. The postwar process hasn't gone as well as some had hoped. Why hasn't anyone been held accountable, either through firings or demotions, for what some people see as mistakes or misjudgments? THE PRESIDENT: Well, we had an accountability moment, and that's called the 2004 election. And the American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq, and they looked at the two candidates, and chose me, for which I'm grateful. Listen, in times of war, things don't go exactly as planned. Some were saying there was no way that Saddam Hussein would be toppled as quickly as we toppled him. Some were saying there would be mass refugee flows and starvation, which didn't happen. My only point is, is that, on a complicated matter such as removing a dictator from power and trying to help achieve democracy, sometimes the unexpected will happen, both good and bad. And the point is, there has to be a flexible strategy that will enable our commanders on the ground and our diplomats to be able to adjust strategy to meet the needs on the ground, all aiming at an eventual goal, which is a free and democratic Iraq, not in our image, in their image, according to their customs. See, we haven't been -- we've been there -- sovereignty was transferred in June of 2004. So this has been a sovereign nation in its new form for less than a year. I'm optimistic about it, and so are a lot of other people who were there in Iraq --optimistic about that, being optimistic about the emergence of a free government. I'm also mindful that it takes a while for democracy to take hold. Witness our own history. We weren't -- we certainly were not the perfect democracy and are yet the perfect democracy. Ours is a constitution that said every man -- a system that said every man was equal, but in fact, every man wasn't equal for a long period of time in our history. The Articles of Confederation were a bumpy period of time. And my only point is, is that I am realistic about how quickly a society that has been dominated by a tyrant can become a democracy. And therefore, I am more patient than some, but also mindful that we've got to get the Iraqis up and running as quickly as possible, so they can defeat these terrorists. The Post: There signs of a manpower squeeze in the regular Army. The National Guard and Reserves have been pressed to their limit. Do you plan to ask Congress to authorize additional National Guard or regular Army units?
THE PRESIDENT: No, what we're going to do is we're going to make sure that the missions of the National Guard and the Reserve closely dovetail with active Army units, so that the pressure that you're speaking about is eased.
The Post: Why do you think bin Laden has not been caught?
THE PRESIDENT: Because he's hiding.
The Post: Our allies have done all they can do to help catch him?
THE PRESIDENT: We're on the hunt.
The Post: Do you think others are on the hunt, too? Are you happy, content with what other countries are doing in that hunt?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
The Post: Anyone you're not happy with? (Laughter.)
THE PRESIDENT: Look, bin Laden is elusive, and he is in a remote part of the world. And we are -- I am -- I can't think of anybody in the world who is our ally who isn't willing to do what is necessary to try to find him. And so I am pleased about the hunt, and I am pleased that he's isolated. I will be more pleased when he's brought to justice, and I think he will be.
The Post: How concerned are you about the enormously high levels of anti-Americanism, particularly in the Muslim world? And is that an indication that somehow the terrorists are winning the hearts and minds of those people?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you know, it's interesting. The people of Afghanistan, which is a part of the Muslim world, are really happy that the government of the United States, along with others, liberated them from the Taliban. I suspect that people in the Muslim world, as we speak, are thrilled that supplies are being delivered by U.S. servicemen and women. The Iranians -- the reformers in Iran are, I suspect, very hopeful that the United States government is firm in our belief that democracy ought to spread. In other words, there are some places we're not popular, and other places where we're liked.
And there's no question we've got to continue to do a better job of explaining what America is all about; that in our country you're free to worship as you see fit, that we honor the Muslim faith, and that if you choose not to -- we don't want territory, we want there to be freedom. And I've talked to Condi about this, and she agrees that we need to work on a public diplomacy effort that explains our motives and explains our intentions.
I also believe that some of the decisions I've made up to now have affected our standing in parts of the world. I remember in the debates, somebody asked me about Europe. And I said, well, they wanted us to join the International Criminal Court, and I chose -- I said, that's not the right posture for the United States of America, or some saying I should have negotiated with Arafat for the four years I was president -- obviously, prior to his death -- and I chose not to because I didn't feel like he was a person who could deliver peace.
I called Abu Amas the other day, and I told him I'm looking forward to seeing him again and working with him -- or Abu Mazen. So I believe that when it's all said and done, those in the Muslim world who long for peace will see that the policies of this government will lead to peace.
The Post: A parochial question for The Post in D.C.
THE PRESIDENT: I'm trying to stay concentrated.
The Post: What's that?
THE PRESIDENT: I'm just trying to stay concentrated. You've got a whole --
The Post: . . . I've got to ask you at least a couple domestic questions. Your answers are short, though.
THE PRESIDENT: A lot shorter than usual.
The Post: It's good, short is good. Why should D.C., which is a top terrorist threat, why should they have to spend $12 million from their budget -- from their homeland security budget they get from the federal government -- to provide security for the inauguration?
THE PRESIDENT: The inauguration is a high-profile event, like a lot of other events that, unfortunately, in the world in which we live, could be an attractive target for terrorists. And by providing security, hopefully that will provide comfort to people who are coming from all around the country to come and stay in the hotels in Washington and to be able to watch the different festivities in Washington and eat the food in Washington. We've got people coming from all around the country, and I think it provides them great comfort to know that all levels of government are working closely to make this event as secure as possible.
The Post: Only two-thirds of the beneficiaries of Social Security, as you know, are retired people. The rest are disabled and people collecting survivor's benefits. Do you think that the rising costs of disability and survivor's insurance is causing the overall Social Security problem, and can you promise that the benefits will not be touched under your reform plan?
THE PRESIDENT: We will look at all aspects of Social Security, of course, but the main focus I have been on, focusing on -- the main issue I have been focusing on is the retirement system aspect of Social Security, because it is a pay-as-you-go system. The number of payers is declining quite rapidly relative to the number of retirees. And that, thus far, has been our focus, because that is the part where the Congress needs to focus.
And to answer the disability insurance, we have no plans of cutting benefits at all for people with disabilities.
The Post: So they'll definitely remain untouched?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I said, we have no plans for cutting benefits.
The Post: Is that just for disability, or for survivors, as well?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we're --
The Post: It's a different benefit for --
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, you're right. Frankly, our discussions in terms of reform have not centered on the survivor/disability aspect of Social Security. We're talking about the retirement system of Social Security. I think that's an accurate statement.
MR. McCLELLAN : You're talking about at or near retirees, right?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, they're talking about survivor and disability benefits, and we have had no discussions of that, thus far. The best way to put it -- the answer is, we have no discussions of that, so far, in terms of changing them, I think is the best way to describe it.
The Post: When you talk about Social Security, you talk about the crisis being now, given the demographic inevitabilities of the system and the financial strains. Is Medicare in crisis, given that it has the same exact demographic strains?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the difference, of course, is that in Medicare, we began a reform system that hopefully will take some of the pressures off the unfunded liabilities, and that is providing, for example, a drug benefit, that will, hopefully, in cases, replace the need for surgery. I used to tell people a lot on the campaign trail that Medicare would pay for the heart surgery but not for the medicine that would prevent the heart surgery from being needed in the first place. Heart surgery costs nearly $100,000, and the medicine could be $1,000. And that's a reform that not only reflects the new nature of medicine, but it's a reform, hopefully, that has cost benefits for the long run.
Secondly, one of the things we did, we began to provide a market approach to Medicare, by allowing seniors choice. And the more choice consumers have, the more likely it is some costs will come under control. We've just begun the reform process in Medicare, and that hasn't been the case in Social Security.
The Post: Do you think it's in crisis, though? I mean, when you look at Medicare, do you see --
THE PRESIDENT: I think, definitely, we're going to have to make sure that in the long-run the baby boomer bulge is addressed in Medicare, as well. The difference is, is that we've started a reform process in Medicare, unlike Social Security.
The Post: Do you plan to expend any political capital to aggressively lobby senators for a gay marriage amendment?
THE PRESIDENT: You know, I think that the situation in the last session -- well, first of all, I do believe it's necessary; many in the Senate didn't, because they believe DOMA will -- is in place, but -- they know DOMA is in place, and they're waiting to see whether or not DOMA will withstand a constitutional challenge.
The Post: Do you plan on trying to -- using the White House, using the bully pulpit, and trying to --
THE PRESIDENT: The point is, is that senators have made it clear that so long as DOMA is deemed constitutional, nothing will happen. I'd take their admonition seriously.
The Post: But until that changes, you want it?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, until that changes, nothing will happen in the Senate. Do you see what I'm saying?
The Post: Right.
THE PRESIDENT: The logic.
The Post: Back on Social Security. How can you -- you talk about cutting the deficit in half over the next five years. How can you do that and have personal accounts, which are going to have some sort of transition costs -- we won't debate the number, but most people say it will be at least $100 billion. How can you do that, and do personal accounts?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, that's what we look forward to working with Congress on, to work with them in such a way that we can handle the concerns of those who say the transition costs may be too much. That's part of the negotiations. I look forward to Congress asking that question. That's not the threshold question. The threshold question is for some who say, we don't have a problem. And once we get people talking about how to fund it, how do you handle the transition costs? I think we're making progress when that happens. It hasn't happened yet, because we're still trying to -- I am making the case that people that have got to understand we have a problem that should be addressed now. But part of the discussions, Jim, that go on, will be how to deal with it -- that particular aspect, as well as a lot of aspects, on how to make the system sound and sound fitting.
The Post: Will you talk to Senate Democrats about your privatization plan?
THE PRESIDENT: You mean, the personal savings accounts?
The Post: Yes, exactly. Scott has been --
THE PRESIDENT: We don't want to be editorializing, at least in the questions.
The Post: You used partial privatization yourself last year, sir.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes?
The Post: Yes, three times in one sentence. We had to figure this out, because we're in an argument with the RNC about how we should actually word this. Mike Allen, the industrious Mike Allen, found it.
THE PRESIDENT: Allen did what now?
The Post: You used partial privatization.
THE PRESIDENT: I did, personally?
The Post: Right.
THE PRESIDENT: When?
The Post: To describe it.
THE PRESIDENT: When, when was it?
The Post: Mike said it was right around the election.
THE PRESIDENT: Seriously?
The Post: It was right around the election. We'll send it over.
THE PRESIDENT: I'm surprised. Maybe I did. It's amazing what happens when you're tired. Anyway, your question was? I'm sorry for interrupting.
The Post: So have you talked to Senate Democrats about this?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I have talked to Senate Democrats, and I will continue to talk to Senate Democrats. And I'll continue --
The Post: Did you --
THE PRESIDENT: We had a meeting with -- I think before Christmas we had the leadership in, didn't we?
MS. DEVENISH : That was Republicans.
MR. McCLELLAN: For Social Security?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
MR. McCLELLAN: The bipartisan meeting at the end of last year, toward the end of last year.
THE PRESIDENT: And before we went on the Christmas break?
MR. McCLELLAN: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: It was right after, I think Harry -- Harry Reid was there, I know for certain. I'm trying to remember -- I can't remember all who were there. But, yes, I have, and will continue to do so, and continue to speak to the people.
The Post: But you haven't reached out personally to Ben Nelson or Mary Landrieu or Lieberman, people that seem open, at least to the idea, because so many Democrats say, no way.
THE PRESIDENT: I will. First step is to make sure people address -- are willing to address the problem. In other words -- in the campaign, you might remember, in going to one of the debates -- Senator Kerry said -- I don't want to put words in his mouth, but basically said, this is something that we can grow the economy and Social Security will be okay. I think he said that. It's not fair for me -- I don't like when people put words in my mouth, and I try not to put in theirs.
But my point is, is that to me, that points at part of the challenge of getting the issue moving forward. That's why I love when you all put it in the front page of your newspaper, the different aspects of Social Security; so and so says this, and so and so says that -- because it means people are at least talking about it. And my view is, the more it's talked about and the more it's debated, the more likely it is people will recognize that we have a problem that we need to address.
And I meant what I said in some of the big speeches I gave, and oftentimes on the campaign trail, where the job of the president is to confront problems, not to pass them on. Plus, I enjoy confronting problems. I enjoy it when hot shot political reports say, can you believe -- sitting around the coffee table -- can you believe old Bush is trying to take this on?
The Post: Fletcher is the one who does that. (Laughter.)
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, of course. (Laughter.)
MR. McCLELLAN: Let's make this the last question.
THE PRESIDENT: We want you to spend time focusing on the community college initiative.
The Post: That was my focus on today -- that's right here.
THE PRESIDENT: It's a big deal, actually. We've got an interesting initiative on Pell grants, that we want to reform the student loan program, and save a fairly substantial amount of money -- not number of loans, but how it is administered. And that money, the savings, will be placed into Pell grants, increasing the grant over a five-year period of time, as well as enhancing Pell grants for people who take rigorous course loads in high school.
MR. McCLELLAN: Last one over here.
The Post: Oh, this is the last question, okay. Oh, my goodness, okay. Can we get one more after that? We have two we have to have.
THE PRESIDENT: You can do it like the pros do it -- you ask three at once.
The Post: Three at once, okay.
THE PRESIDENT: Go ahead, I'm listening.
The Post: Nearly 90 percent of African Americans voted against you in the past election.
THE PRESIDENT: How many?
The Post: Nearly 90 percent, and that was an improvement over 2000. You got 11 percent of the black vote in the exit polls I saw. What could you have done to change that, first of all? And, secondly, how do you plan to win those people over to your policies in your second term?
THE PRESIDENT: Listen, I am -- when we worked on the No Child Left Behind law, part of what motivated me on that law, and part of what motivated me as governor to insist upon accountability is I fully understand that oftentimes it was the inner-city black child who just got moved through, and the system just quit on him or her. When we worked to get the reading programs in place, reading programs based upon what actually works, not what might sound good, I kept in mind my -- the one time -- I remember the time when an African American stood up and said, reading is the new civil right. And there's no doubt in my mind that No Child Left Behind Act, when fully implemented, and if not weakened -- and it won't be weakened when I'm the president -- will end up helping young black kids realize their dreams.
And, you know, the answer to your question is, people will see the results of this law, and some point in time realize that George W. Bush cared deeply about failure and mediocrity and did something about it. I did my best to reach out, and I will continue to do so as the president. It's important for people to know that I'm the president of everybody, and that I don't sit down in the White House and say, these people voted for me, therefore I'm going to focus policy this way.
There's been some amazing statistics during my time as president. More minorities own homes than ever before, which is -- I'll continue to promote an ownership society. I believe the more somebody owns something, the more likely it is that they'll be independent from government and have a prosperous life. The Social Security issue is an interesting issue when it comes to African Americans. After all, the life expectancy of African American males is a lot less than other groups and, therefore, if you really think about that, you have people putting money in the system that aren't -- families won't benefit from the system. And, therefore, it seems to me to make sense, if I were a part of a group of people that were being disadvantaged by the Social Security system, that I'd at least like to have the opportunity to have some of the money I put in the system passable to my family.
And so my point to you is, the policies that we have put forth in this administration are, I think, beneficial to all. And as to why that message hasn't made it through, I don't know, I'm not a pundit. Ask pros like VandeHei, who follows all this stuff.
The Post: You've said many times that Washington is a far more polarized place than you imagined, even becoming president.
THE PRESIDENT: One of my regrets.
The Post: What lessons do you draw from that, and how are you going to operate differently to try to break those barriers down?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I appreciate you asking that question, because it is tough. It's different from Austin. And the only thing you can do is set out policy and say to people, we want to work together on it. The first year and a half was a period of time when we did work together -- tax cuts and No Child Left Behind and the trade initiative. I think that happened in the first year and a half, the trade initiative. Anyway, there was a spirit of cooperation, people were working together.
Then what happens in Washington is elections start coming up, and that tends to change the dynamic. And, you know, coming into the '04 elections, the mood changed. And I've done my best to try to -- when it came to policy and working with others, to share credit and to give people a chance to participate. And I don't know whether you'll ever be able to break the -- kind of that cycle of a period of relative quiet, and then elections affecting the mood in Congress.
I do know that I am never going to run for office again and, so, therefore, in working with people in Congress, that no longer will there be an excuse if we work with him on this issue, it will make him look good politically -- me, personally, politically. Part of Washington, on both sides, is kind of the zero-sum attitude, it seems like to me -- if we work this way, it helps so and so; if we work that way, it helps so and so. And so what ends up -- what's happening, it's kind of a clash of will.
But I'm mindful of my rhetoric when it comes to the Democrats. I've really checked back. And I'm not talking about the campaign. That was more of a survival mode. (Laughter.) But I wasn't personal. I didn't feel like my rhetoric was harsh. But as president, I have been -- if you go back and look, I think you will find that I've never really personally called anybody out, never tried to vilify because people didn't agree with my position. So, in other words, I think all of us, all of us have got to work to set the right kind of tone. I will continue to do so.
And the inaugural address is a good place to start, which I know you all are looking forward to hearing.
The Post: Very much so. Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Enjoyed it.
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