Woman Promotes the Right to Go Topless

gosh, this is serious stuff for women!!


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-topless22jan22,0,3775804.story?coll=la-home-local


Woman Promotes the Right to Go Topless
January 22, 205

An attorney crusades to change the law because it treats male and female sunbathers differently. A ruling in a Megan's Law case adds urgency

By Robert Salladay, Times Staff Writer


SACRAMENTO — As a Ventura County public defender, Liana Johnsson has handled many life-changing cases, but her biggest public crusade these days has been going topless.

For months, Johnsson has been fighting to allow topless women at California beaches and parks, and now the issue has made its way to the Capitol.

A group of lawyers, at Johnsson's request, has asked the Legislature to make topless sunbathing legal, saying the ban is the last criminal sanction that treats women differently than men.

The new movement has urgency: Because of a December court ruling, Johnsson and other attorneys contend, women convicted of indecent exposure could find themselves listed as sex offenders under Megan's Law, alongside rapists and child molesters........

Stay abreast of this topic. :evilgrin:

I know some men with bigger breasts than my own. :)

Ok, I kid.

(and this is when I remember my New Year's resolution to add a weightlifting component to my running program)

... well, actually TWO points.

wasn't right! LOL

As long as they are not advancing a business interest by doing so.

a group of women who protested in either the late 70s or early 80s to win this right. Some of them were for the right to sunbathe others were in it for the breastfeeding issue. The funny thing was that one of the women was someone who had gone to my high school and I barely remember her as someone who was very shy.

Not that many take advantage of the law, except at Comfest, the alternative gathering at the end of June.

I hope you read this part of the article:

Randy Thomasson, president of Campaign for Children and Families, called it a "loopy idea" at a time when California needs to strengthen laws against public nudity.

"We already have too many sexual assaults in society. This will fuel that fire, and if the women don't understand, that's because they don't think like a man," Thomasson said.

Basically, the "Children and families" leader endorses the position that women who are sexually assaulted were "asking for it".

Women wearing pants, skirts above the ankle, knee, or minis. Same thing was said about bikinis and halter tops. Sorry dude, but that is simply a BS arguement, what a woman is wearing doesn't really matter in terms of sexual assault, for rape is not a crime about sex friend, it is a crime about power, and if the man is sick enough to rape somebody, he is going to do no matter what the woman is wearing or not wearing.

Again for those who will BLAME women's bodies for their own sexual confusions and for which they refuse to take responsibility.

cheer-leading mags.

If I were a man I'd take great offense to that.

As a woman, I know I take offense to that.

It also shows his ignorance regarding what motivates rape

And I *AM* offended.

If his (bogus) theory holds water, then there should be NO rapes in the Winter, when women are all bundled up.

But he'd probably counter with some crap about there being men who get revved-up at the sight of polarfleece...

No one cares. Only in uptight America...

There are significant tensions between naturists and non-naturists on beaches in Germany. It has gotten quite ugly at times and there are some legal initiatives to ban nude sunbathing (on a local level anyway).

Also in Italy there are lots and lots of places where topless sunbathing is asking for either 1) lots of hassles from males or, 2) getting oneself arrested.

There are plenty of places in Europe where sunbathing topless is frowned upon. Still, it's a lot better than the States any way you slice it.

Nobody seemed to care. Huge crowds of naked peeps. That was in 1986, so I guess things change there too.

never goes to a beach in Europe. He may be unable to control himself.

After the initial hoopla wore off, I'd probably not give it a second thought.

Thomasson is a little misahthropic, don't you think?

Do I like boobies? Youbetcha.
Would I take the sight of an exposed pair as license to grope them?
Who the fuck do you think I am, AHH-Nuld?

... I can say it's 'titillating' (pun intended) for about 4-5 minutes. After that (and 95% that're nothing close to Playboy 'quality'), it's about as ordinary as bare belly buttons. What I do notice, however, is the far more confident and emancipated attitude of women. It's hard to put your finger on (pun intended), but such beaches (in Europe and Tahiti) feel far more egalitarian ... more comfortable. Absolutely nothing stops anyone from wearing more ... but the oppression is absent.

On one of my trips to Tahiti, I ran into a gal I once worked with in California. She was lovely ... and sexy. Really nice gal. One day, when I came off the boat from scuba diving, she was on the beach sunbathing. So I walked over and said "Hi" and engaged in some chit-chat. It took me about 4-5 minutes before I became fully aware she was topless. It's not that I wasn't aware ... it's just I really didn't think about how differently I was reacting. Hell, I would've gawked like an ordinary male moron if I'd seen her boobs back at the office. (She didn't have children.) But there I was, chatting, and oblivious. She noticed that I ran into that wall of confusion and we looked at each other silently for a moment ... and we both broke out laughing. Nice gal.

lol

... 'tits' either. :shrug: I'm long past my adolescent years - and I sorta doubt I would've thought about that even then.

Funny - I've really never been what I'd call a "breast man." When I find a woman sexually attractive, I'm usually pretty egalitarian about her anatomical features ("flesh"), regarding all of them pretty postively. It's pretty much of a "do unto others" attitude, I guess.

what does your statement about her not having children mean?

One of the contexts under which I might see a woman's breast exposed in a public place in the U.S. and have virtually no visceral/libidinous reaction whatsoever (other than one of a peaceful "that's nice") is if she'd be nursing an infant.

I often make such (sometimes cryptic) parenthetical notes in my posts when I reread what I'm saying and challenge it in my mind for accuracy. That was one of those times. I quibbled with myself that there's a reasonable scenario under which I'd not gawk.

Sorry it wasn't obvious. :shrug:
(I sorta think the correlation of 'breasts' and 'children' is pretty obvious. I'm a mammal.)

that men recognize breasts are functional too. When I was pregnant, my mother in law was very suprised that I planned to nurse (and did). I looked at her and said, "I don't know why I wouldn't. I have breasts."

Maybe that's much of why I don't regard breasts as merely convenient sex toys for some male (or other partner). I tend to regard beauty in a Frank Lloyd Wright (form follows function) way ... that physically healthy and anatomically functional bodies are aesthetically beautiful. Thus, I tend to view excess negatively - whether it's avoirdupois or alphabetical or linear. (Merely "more" isn't better - in either gender.)

"We already have too many sexual assaults in society. This will fuel that fire, and if the women don't understand, that's because they don't think like a man"

He assumes he speaks for all men, but is clearly speaking about himself.

Men NEED to grow up and take responsibility for SELF control.
Women men whatever should not have to cover themselves because some people are horny and will not be responsible;e for themselves.
Rape is a Male problem.A lack of responsibility and self control of themselves.
I say if a man rapes a woman she should cut it right off!
I think men who rape need to be seen as the pathetic antisocial losers they are,and treated as such.
Women should not have to cover up their chests, because someone else is a selfish irresponsible asshole and our idiot culture has a boob fetish.
Men need to take responsibility for their sex's rape issues..

And women who feel subjected by men.or who are threatened by them should fight back as ruthlessly as they need to and not let men blame the women..for the males of our species terrible lack of maturity,sanity and self control.
Men who refuse to be respectful to women or blacks gays etc,need to be shown how oppression feels when they trample others,at that moment.Someone who does not respect you does not deserve trust or to be respected. Rejection of irresponsible males is one way to make a point,there are many more ways.Men need to accept they are equals to everyone else and just as responsible for their own conduct and not entitled to have their egos and wants catered to by the social or personal oppression of others.

wouldn't it be best for men to cover up, too...so they wouldn't be asking for a sexual assault by a man who was attracted to a man's bare chest? Or does Thomasson figure that gay men don't "think like a man"?

makes him want to rape? That's pretty sick. He should get some help. Does he have a problem with the Justice statue, like Asscroft?

Tits are dangerous!

Much like the power struggle to restrict women's reproductive freedoms. Women's bodies, especially their breasts, minds, and wombs must remain objects only for male use, not something unto themselves.

Women's breasts are are a symbol of women's nurturing and lifegiving "power." Women's breasts contain milk that feeds babies. Topless women confront men with something they don't have - this unique natural capability. That is why breasts will be "demonized" and seen as indecent and why this women's struggle is so important, especially in the times we are in, where misogyny is rampant.

Not all men of course...just those who cannot deal with the balance of power between the sexes, certainly the John Ashcroft types. Remember the indecency of the Statue of Liberty? them French ~ ooo Lah Lah!

If women go topless the whole relationship between the sexes changes, for sure!

And alos remember this - not all breasts are created equal.

are ojects for the law books!!

I think that's nonsense. Hell, when I'm engaged in petting and sexual preludes (and postludes) damned near every part of her body is an "object of sex" ... and if she's as healthy and well-balanced, it's reciprocal.

It's Catch-22, as far as I'm concerned. The titillation comes from the social taboo ... forbidden fruit. The exposure of something that's ritually reserved for intimacy. It's social indoctrination. (The brain is the primary sexual organ.)

Humans were having sex long before something called civil rights.

Once they see the exposed breasts, instincts overwrites reason.

There are and have been for ages, indigenous lawful societies all over the planet where partial nudity is a way of life and antisocial behavior is dealt with appropriately by the community. You sir/madam are either not thinking before you speak, or are feeling a bit repressed.

;-)

... hoping other emotionally mature and sane DUers might weigh in and circumvent what otherwise often becomes some ridiculous 2-person dialog.

I'm often amazed at the degree to which people are so totally unaware of their own cultural indoctrination, attributing it to 'nature' and not 'nurture'. I see it most often in bigoted people - people who ascribe their animosities to some natural or supernatural influence instead of their more perverted beliefs.

with the notable exception of the fight/flight survival response to severe stress. There are certainly strong internal urges, but not overwhelming compulsions that govern behavior, at least in a mentally stable human being. To claim otherwise is to excuse the worst of criminal behavior, and to paint humans as dumb beasts without free will and judgment.

are they able to control themselves at nude and topless beaches? strip clubs? etc. anyone who lacks such self-control has a clinical disorder, bc that is not the norm. a friend who works in a strip club and has performed at private bachelor parties has noted how well-behaved the men are, even when naked breasts are inches from their face. The only time anyone has violated her space they have been very inebriated, and other guests immediately contained the offendor and apologized profusely. Not one of the guys has ever implied that she was "asking for it" either, amazingly enough.

When pregnant, they helped me lodge books atop my belly. They fed my son for the first years of his life. They save my shoes from coffee spills. And like all the other parts of my body, they can be recreational. Quite useful, really. Brilliant inventions, breasts are.

Mouths are sexual objects, so are pretty hands and fingers.

We need to slap burkas on them womens!

pretty mouths and lips. LOL

Now you are special.

Yes I'd say you're right - Boobs are both sexy and sacred!

This probably gets to the core of what all this about. Some men (not all, but some and much of this is the culture as others have mentioned) get confused when confronted with a SEXY that is ALSO Sacred with Lifegiving powers - So these certain lawmakers would rather profane the sacred sexy thing - rather than respect the WHOLE of the woman: a woman can be both a mother/virgin and a whore at the same time. And a lot of men (and women) can't reconcile that the woman really IS both.

What is at the root of this psychologically I've heard called the virgin/whore split. It's also reflected in the Christian (primarily Catholic) dilemman of Mary the VIRGIN - as in chaste - mother vs. Mary Magdalen, who through the years was modeled falsely into a prostitute (but was never actually a prostitute,) but actually a priestess and is now known to have been a woman of means, that is, wealthy.

Virgin/whore split - check it out. That's what's going on here.

As sensual beings we tend to favor physical contact, especially with sensitive parts of the body, but it is entirely possible to have sex without even touching or exposing one's breasts.

unvail the peice now??????

where women were not allowed to feed their kids in public?
"He noted that since California legalized public breastfeeding in 1998,..."
Oh, yes, I remember Nipple-Gate. Nearly the whole world was laughing. Same thing is looking at gymnastics with US girls really topless but wearing a bra.
In Italy it is not allowed to sunbath topless in sight of the Vatican. Nudist beaches are found everywhere and in saunas at public baths nudity is standard.
Is a naked nipple immoral or the thoughts by seeing one?
The breast is probably intelligent design. So why hide?

This sure is important news! (Humor injection) With all that is happening to our Democracy this kind of post should be relegated to the back page. Come on folks. This is Fox news territory!

for women!

...stop endorsing the idea of titties as sexual objects. Most of the civilized world is already there, yet we're still behaving like Victorians when it comes to women's breasts.

See enough naked ones and they will cease to be exciting. In fact, in most cases you'll probably wish they were covered up...just like I feel when I see dudes with he-boobies wearing Speedos.

what they really are - breasts.

Nicely played.

physically to any woman who wishes to go topless. You may now proceed to call me a sexist pig!
Thank You

Tell me those aren't sexy!

Ever thought about why the Koran tells that women have to hide their beauties?
Because after several weeks traveling through the deserts men were not able to contain themselves. So the women have to duck and hide.
Nowadays even pilgrims fly to mecca. So men must be able to withstand a naked breast.

I believe the Koran directs all men and women to dress moderately. What this means is subject to interpretation by the various Muslem cultures.

I try to lick-wise every chance I get.

I marvel in the diversity of both the female breasts and the labia. All shapes, sizes, colors and texture. Magnificent. All of them.

While carnal attraction doesn't begin in thought, it quickly wanes when thoughts are not syncronous between people. The covering of nudity is one of the oldest religious manipulations of the Human psyche there is.

-Hoot

Feel free to send photos.

:)

Why is it okay for a fat guy to be topless?

He is such a boob.

RL

Think of all the Vitamin D we aren't getting but walking around all covered up. And when it get's really hot, why do women have to stand around clothed while men get to take their shirts off and give all the girls executive disfunctions. (has anyone else here built a house before)

in the topics list it says "Woman Promotes the Right to Go Topless...View All". :)...Sorry....cabin fever setting in...

Sorry. :silly:

Or from a Republican perspective; Thick of rise in Tourist Dollars! It could wipe out the States deficit, without raising Taxes:freak: :evilgrin:

:) Go girl... You take your top off whereever you damn well please!

}(

If you know what I mean and I think you do.

to go topless.

It has gotten completely out of hand, we are getting completely out of touch with our own basic humanity. We need to end this neurotic fear or discomfort with human bodies, sex, etc. already, we need to evolve past these puritan morality issues that have dominated our culture for far too long. Europe, latin america, and other countries are far ahead of us in this respect, and now that being topless can now put a woman on Megan's List only adds additional incentive to grant them this long overdue right.

unless they are the religious Reich and then they like to sneak peaks, like the lying little hypocrites they are.

Megan's Law, alongside rapists and child molesters........

This is the horrible part!!

was on the school bus and he was messing around and his pants got caught on the seat and ripped the button and he was wearing to big baggy boxers and his pants fell down along with the underwear. The judge said he did it on purpose and now he's labeled as a sex offender. Even though he's now an adult and his records are supposed to be sealed that boo boo isn't.

edited to add NJ hates kids

becomes a case of science, namely gravity. :bounce::bounce: bouncing pun intended

One can at least argue that exposure of genitals in public may be a biohazard. But what is the practical reason for concealing breasts in particular? It seems sorta arbitrary.

If it's in the interest of protecting the public from the sight of aesthetically offensive figures (I know, I'm really reaching here), that is a daily hazard now anyway, with swimsuits and tight and revealing clothing. A further glimpse of the nipple isn't likely to make it much worse.

...then men would be hoping to score by holding hands, and this thread would be about whether women should have the right to show bare fingers in public.

It's not that simple. A large part of sexual attraction towards breasts is the forbidden fruit aspect, but part of it is that it simply triggers hormones.

And even if there was a correlation, how can it be proven that the sight of breasts innately triggers the hormonal reaction, rather than the social construct that conceals and glorifies them?

Was it that simple then?

There was a big cafuffle over it early on, but the idea has never really caught on. Probably because it's too cold in most parts of the country, even in the summer.

And, just because I can, here's Canada's own Bowser & Blue:

One very hot day in the summer,
A woman was walking through Guelph.
She saw bare-chested men enjoying the sun
And said, "I think I'll do that myself".
So she paused in her stroll to take off her top
And then, much to her disgust
A passing policeman told her to stop
And said, "Young woman, this is a bust!"

Now, why are we busting the breast?
This question must be addressed!
Why make an issue of mammary tissue
And why are we busting the breast?

Then hundreds of women all took up her cause
They heard she was going to court
They said, "This is a fight for topless rights
And she's going to need our support!"
So they marched in protest, all baring their breasts
And saying "The law is an ass!"
Enduring the cries of hundreds of guys
Who descended with cameras en masse

Saying...
Why are we busting the breast?
This question must be addressed!
Why make an issue of mammary tissue
And why are we busting the breast?

The judge, concerned, said "What must be learned
And what this court must decide
Is how much of the body, no matter which gender
Society requires us to hide
You see, this may seem frivolous at first sight
But in fact it's a serious charge
Because men, in fact, also have breasts
And in some cases they're quite large"

So, why are we busting the breast?
This question must be addressed!
Why make an issue of mammary tissue
And why are we busting the breast?

And then the judge handed down a ruling that sounded something like this...

It's the law, not the breast, which must be redressed
That led to this woman's wrongful arrest
And started her off on her legal quest
To prove that she had been oppressed
By a law which simply had not progressed
Because it's no crime to bare your breast!

Oh, why are we busting the breast?
As a mammal I don't understand
If there's one part of the body that does only good
It's the mammary gland!

We often compare ourselves with the US
And often they come out the best
But they only have the right to bear arms
And we have the right to bare breasts!
Well, I'm glad they weren't convicted
'Cause that would have been a bummer
I'm glad that justice triumphed
And I'm especially glad in the summer!

We're no longer busting the breast
I'm glad we got that off our chest
Why make an issue of mammary tissue?
We're no longer busting the breast