A driver's license as national ID?

January 24, 2005

New national standards for drivers licenses have some privacy advocates worried.

"And now that small card tucked in your wallet is about to get more sophisticated. A piece of the new National Intelligence Reform Act signed into law last week requires national standards for state licenses."

PAPERS...let me see your PAPERS!!!!

Any states that have a problem with this will find some key funding, like education or highway funds, cuts. ALL WILL BE ASSIMILATED!

How long before they require non-drivers to get an identity card? Probably not long now!

for employment, banking etc. I know in PA, many jobs require showing a non-driver picture ID in addition to SS card.

...for just those purposes--as an ID, to buy booze, bank, and so on. I'm forseeing the day when it isn't an option, but MANDATED by the Police State.

to prove that you are legal to work in this country. The proble is that SS cards aver very easy to forge, much easier than a green card.

Really???? How draconian!

I believe (from my personal experiences with the coppers) that if you do not have a valid drivers license you must have a non-driver id.

...the right to remain silent? I can understand if you are DRIVING, you can, and rightfully should under the proper circumstances be required to produce a license, but if people can be compelled to produce identification absent any other reason (say, as a pedestrian or passenger) then this country is already well down a fascist road.

I was walking down the street at night when an officer asked me for my ID. I was walking in a fairly high traffic area between two or three bars so he probably could have thrown reasonable suspicion of public intox if he really wanted to, but I was far from inebriated and there were TONS of people much more obviously drinking.

I was pretty upset, but also in a hurry so after giving him just a brief rash of shit I produced the ID and was on my way.

I can't fault the police off hand, perhaps he was asked to do this, but it felt like a violation to me.

And here in CA they're pushing for any illegal immigrant (and terrorist that wants to) can get a license.

Basically this is nothing more than a way for the government to track law abiding citizens, and will do nothing to help protect us.

What is rarely mentioned in these discussions is that the 9/11 hijackers would still have obtained drivers licenses even under the most stringent proposals for issuance. Why? Because they have a multi-million dollar organization behind them that is quite capable of generating whatever fraudulent documents are needed to match whatever requirements we should see fit to impose. In other words, terrorists will be the only ones who aren't harmed by tighter restrictions on drivers licenses. As usual, it will be the innocents who suffer.

I love it when pappa government tries to make us "safe" its usually just a way to screw us. Meanwhile Bu$h's Cheap Labor advocates are making $ hand over fist with Mexicans streaming over the border to fill "jobs Americans won't do"

Well of course they won't do them, Americans demand minimum wage.

Meanwhile with such a "mess" at the border they don't even bother stopping everyone, so there are many reports of Arabs pretending to be hispanic and slipping through in big groups. Now can pay a couple hundred $ here in Pershing Square and get a license, or wait for the CA Legislature to give in to anyone who wants one. In the end, we're screwed because they can track our bank records or something, but "Jose Doe" will come up blank from this sweeping reform.

Seriously. I understand some of the privacy concerns but they happen now just differently.

REQUIREING everyone to have a licesne and show it to police whenever they ask for it is wrong.

Having a national drivers liscence? Well as a former bouncer I can tell you that it'd be alot easier to card people. :)

or a tattoo?

1. First nationalize the ID card.

2. Then, gradually make sure no one accepts other cards for ID -- also roll in the driver's licence with the SS card. It's all one card, so much easier!

3. Make sure biometrical indentifiers are on the card in a little scannable chip. That way, no one can steal your identity.

4. Give people *the option* to have the chip stuck under their skin (tattoo, ear tag, whatever). Now NO ONE can steal your identity EVER, plus it's what the cool people do and oh so convenient: you don't have to carry a bulky wallet in your pocket or purse. You can go dancing all night long, and under age drinkers will be stopped at the door by the scanner. So easy! We Americans loooooove convenience.

5. Hmmm, these new super-secure scanners don't accept the old cards. Darn, well, those bulky cards are obsolete anyway and downright dangerous. Old people can still use them, but we won't be issuing any new ID cards. Chips only.

6. Voila! Government has seized total information control of your life, and you hardly noticed it was happening. Oh, well, I have nothing to hide, right?

Just a matter of time, I fear...

Excuse the crude language. But I fear it may be time to think the unthinkable. Against what I have been preaching since the primaries.

I note in the article, they're already mentioning biometrics as the preferred, less tamperable (is that a word?) method to pursue...but that they can be forged...in other words, this is intentionally setting the stage for ordering chip implants.

and people wonder why I call the chimp the antichrist?

When they scrap SS they will also scrap the number. No need to keep track of all those numbers any longer.

in caps "for social security and tax purposes-not for identificaton"

Do the newer cards include that statement?

It was being used as an ID, even the Military uses it now as yoru service number (another change in the mid-1970s).

My dad had a separate income tax number. I saw it when I was home a couple years ago going through papers after my mom dad. They weren't even supposed to be able to use that number to track your federal taxes, originally.

This is a lot of what's so worrisome about the whole national ID issue. The Social Security Card had tons of safeguards built into it to ensure that it was never used to track and monitor people - legislative intent was crystal clear on this point. Yet what's happened? You fid that, in real life, you can't get anything anymore unless you're willing to give people your social security number. This is plainly not what the original lawmakers had in mind, yet it's what has come to pass nonetheless.

Now we're going to move to some sort of national ID card and I'm supposed to believe that we aren't going to wind up as some sort of police state where you have to show your ID to every police officer, every business, etc., so that your info can be scanned into some database somewhere? And what's to prevent that from coming to pass? The goodness of people's hearts, perhaps?

I was trying (unsuccessfully) to find an image of one of those older SS cards last week.

I think it would be a poignant illustration of how we "gradually go down the slippery slope".

I think even a teen or 20-something would recognize that you can't do ANYTHING today without having a SS#.

(So, for discussion with those who are too-young - or old enough to know better & don't:

Why were those words, "for social security and tax purposes-not for identificaton" placed on those original cards and what was the concern that the general populace had at that time about SS#'s? Did that concern 'bear out to come true'? How did that happen? And finally, what does that possibly mean for the future?)

when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers.

Redstone

Hey, T-shirt idea, anyone? That'd be a good one for Fourth Amendment fans. If DU wants to use this for one of their "store" items, I won't charge a royalty. Just give me attribution in small type somewhere.

it's called a passport.

wtf is wrong with these people? why is a passport not a valid "national ID"?

there's no law that requires you to carry it all the time, here in the US.

These nazi bastards would be just as happy if they could get such a law (which would also make getting a passport mandatory, which is isn't now if you don't travel abroad).

All they want is something that you have to produce when the cops decide they don't like the way you look; they don't really care if it's called a "national identity card" or anything else.

Redstone

to personal information, this from the SSA's own website

http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/dogtag.html


The publisher William Randolph Hearst was a fervent enemy of President Roosevelt and the New Deal. All the newspapers in the Hearst chain were expected to regularly publish unfavorable stories about New Deal programs. On the eve of the 1936 presidential election Hearst sought to undermine support for Social Security with allegations that workers would be required to wear "dog-tags" with their Social Security number and would be forced to fill-out questionnaires probing for personal information. In fact, neither allegation was true. However, the "dog-tag" story did have a basis in fact.

When considering ways to assign Social Security numbers, one proposal was to issue metal nameplates, not unlike military "dog-tags." Commissioner Altmeyer vetoed this idea as soon as he heard about it. This did not, however, stop the Hearst syndicate from reporting it as fact. During the early discussion of the metal nameplate idea, one company eager for this potential government business (the Addressograph Corp.) went so far as to prepare a sample I.D. tag in Commissioner Altmeyer's name. Altmeyer kept this sample "dog-tag" in his desk drawer throughout his career with SSA, and he donated it to SSA after his retirement. So the one and only Social Security "dog-tag" ever issued is now on display in the History Room at SSA headquarters in Baltimore.

wanted by few of its citizens.

I remember back in the good old days when the government just failed to pass legislation that was desirable and you bitched and went on with life.

Now they go out of their way to pass UNDESIRABLE laws. They are giving a giant fuck you to us, their employers.

So quick to give us this crap, so S-L-O-W to give us a national election standard with paper ballots.

And just as an FYI, in Michigan you are now required to list your social security number on your driver's license. Not happy with that bit of intrusion, either. They say it's to track down deadbeat parents. I'm quite sure there are OTHER ways to accomplish this goal.

to avoid this type of federal overstepping. information, including personal information, is power and should never become centralized.

my VERY, VERY republican father is against this national ID. it gives me hope that maybe people on both sides of the aisle will shoot this bird down.