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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 03:24 PM
Original message
Gov. Bush criticizes NCAA ban on Seminoles nickname


http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/sports/12340771.htm

Gov. Bush criticizes NCAA ban on Seminoles nickname

Associated Press


TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - Gov. Jeb Bush criticized NCAA officials on Tuesday for their decision to penalize Florida State for using an American Indian nickname and symbols, saying they instead insulted the university and a proud Seminole Tribe of Florida.

The NCAA's finding that the school's Seminoles nickname is "hostile and offensive," instead of honoring American Indians has the opposite effect, the governor said, because the tribe supports the school's use of its name.

"I think it's offensive to native Americans ... the Seminole Indian tribe who support the traditions of FSU," Bush said on his way into a Cabinet meeting. "I think they insult those people by telling them, 'No, no, you're not smart enough to understand this. You should be feeling really horrible about this.' It's ridiculous."

Meanwhile, attorney Barry Richard, who successfully led the legal challenge on behalf of Republican George W. Bush in the 2000 presidential recount in Florida, has agreed to represent the school in its case against the NCAA, Florida State President T.K. Wetherell said Wednesday.
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Gato Moteado Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. if the seminoles don't mind, then i don't see why anyone should...
...make a problem where there is none.

personally i couldn't give two sh*ts about college sports anyways.

but i do think the next new team that needs a name (whether it's college or pro) should choose something like the hillbillies, or the rednecks, or the hicks. hell, they have the red tide...how about the white trash? they could put a picture of jesse helms or bill frist on the helmet.
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AndrewJacksonFaction Donating Member (471 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Seminole Tribe Still Supports Florida State Use of Nickname
Seminole Tribe Still Supports Florida State Use of Nickname

MIAMI (AP) - The Seminole Tribe of Florida said it still backs Florida State University's use of the Seminoles nickname, just a week before the NCAA meets on the appropriateness of American Indian nicknames.
At it's regular Friday meeting, the Tribal Council voted unanimously on a resolution in support of Florida State's nickname , the first time the Tribe has taken an official public step to show support for the Tallahassee school's mascot.

"The resolution is a formal document that puts into black and white the sentiment of the Tribe, because we feel that it is an honor and a reflection of the university to represent the spirit of the Seminole Tribe of Florida," said Max Osceola, a Tribal councilman.


http://ap.tbo.com/ap/florida/MGBBHS1Z2AE.html
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oneold1-4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Does the team support-
The tribe in any way? Do they give scholarships to youth in the tribe to the university or any college? Do they discount tickets for tribal members to attend home games? Do they know that all persons in the tribe have homes, maybe air conditioned, and plenty of food and medical care? Have they, really, over the years, earned the right to use the name of a once great tribe?
OR at least brought back and protected the "beaver" and even puts crosswalks in the many parks for the thousands of baby "ducks".
All of the Native Indian Nations deserve the utmost respect and honor today.
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. They actually give the tribe money.
If I recall.
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cureautismnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Coalition of the Bribed?
Maybe it's deja vu all over again, with apologies to Yogi.

Perhaps, they can get the $eminole Nation of Oklahoma to join in the fun "sporting festivities" - for the right price.
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Well bribed or not....
There's two parties here. The Seminoles didn't have to accept the cash, nor did they have to endorse Florida State using their name.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. I find that very ironic
since it was Seminole Indians from FLORIDA who made Eastern Michigan University change its name from the Hurons to the Eagles.
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retread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. The Seminole tribe support is the leadership council of the FLORIDA
tribe. The Oklahoma Seminoles have been lobbying FSU for years to change the name.
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Dallas Cowboys should change their name
since my uncle was once a cowboy, and that mascot name is an insult to my family.

The Notre Dame Fighting Irish should be changed to the Notre Dame Peaceful Lepricons.

What about The NY Yankees, Virginia Cavaliers, OSU Cowboys, Texas A&M Aggies, Nebraska Cornhuskers, Ole Miss Rebels, Army Cadets, Boston Celtics, Montreal Canadians, New England Patriots, Texas Rangers, and
Tennessee Volunteers?

What's next? Do we change the name of every town, county, and state named after a Native American individual or tribe? Do we change the name of our weapons systems - the Tommyhawk Missile, the Apache Helicopter, etc.?
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Okay Jebass, then you should be okay with the new name too..
Florida old gray whities. That work for you?

Is there even an ounce of brains in that entire family*?

Colossal fucking FUCKING failure*!
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manic expression Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Or what about...
The Florida Nazi Supporters, to honor the Bush Family's support and trade with the Nazi regime.
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oneold1-4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Indian names
The white man used many indian names for everything from small creeks to major highways and many were not meant to be nice. The Native American here is beginning to regain respect by using capital from casinos to return property and decent housing to their people. Many of the original names of tribes, lakes, streams, and even oceans would be a tribute to a people who did not destroy this country through the centuries they lived here before a white person.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think the teams should keep their names, esp. 
if the tribal governments agree.  The Florida Seminoles and
Oklahoma Seminoles should get together over who
"owns" the name.

If the teams get into a bowl game, they should get together
and work out a plan.  The first one can adopt the temporary
name  . (That's a white space.)

The second can adopt the temporary name   . (Two white
spaces.)

Third ...     (3 white spaces).  And so on.

They can leave it up to the NCAA exactly how to pronounce
them, or list them in the record books.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. Is this the worst problem that Florida faces?
Of course, the case will enrich Barry Richard "who successfully led the legal challenge on behalf of Republican George W. Bush in the 2000 presidential recount in Florida."
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. The Seminole Nation of Oklahoma opposes FSU's Mascot
And right on cue, the great white father tells them what they should and shouldn't be offended about.
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democrat in Tallahassee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. As an alumni of FSU, may I speak? The spirit of the Seminoles
at FSU goes much deeper than a mascot or a football team or anything like that. We are proud to be connected to them and their "unconquered spirit." What was done to Chief Osceola was unforgivable (look it up if you don't know). The Seminoles are part of this land--their words (and other Native American words)encompass our state--Tallahassee for example (you really don't want to know what it means); Okeechobee. Caloosahatchee.
At our homecoming every year, the Seminole Princess and her court from the Seminole Nation crowns the homecoming queen in full Seminole dress; it is lovely and very muticultural.
I think we should drop the Seminole chop and the chant at the football games but we should keep the name because we are proud of the association.
Now about the Holy Cross Crusaders....
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Pystoff Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm Cherokee and proudly so but
I don't find FSU's name offensive nor the Braves or Indians. Now the Redskins thats offensive and should be changed especially considering where the team is located yeesh. This is a bullshit issue in most respects and should be treated as such instead of being used by any side for PC shots at the other. If you aren't american indian and bitching about this you might be a busybody...yep a direct play on Jeff (I wish I were funny) Foxworthy. The Seminole's of Oklahoma are after cash in this instance and infact they are Creek NOT Seminole's for the mostpart.

Good thing Bama is the Crimson Tide yeesh what a boondoggle this issue is becomming.
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. "Chief Billy" is corrupt and in w/the Amramoff scandal, The FSU
"President' is a former jughead player with a less than stellar past, who was recently installed to whitewash all Criminole activity.

A few other notes that come to mind-

1. Seminloes did not use war paint. Nor did they 'tomohawk chop', or set their spears aflame whilst yelling 'wo wo wo' with their hands to the mouth.

2. They were not charactures of plains indians on horseback. Instead, they were makers of canoes.

3. "Chief Billy" has stolen from the tribe, is is nefarious gambling affairs w/Reed, Abramoff/Reed, etc.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. And Barry Richard is a partner in Greenberg, Traurig
That's Abramoff's former firm.

Nothing like keeping it all in the family.
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CONN Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
18. Trail of Tears
<snip>
The U.S. acquired more land in 1818 when, spurred in part by the motivation to punish the Seminoles for their practice of harboring fugitive slaves, Jackson's troops invaded Spanish Florida.
<snip>
For the next 28 years, the United States government struggled to force relocation of the southeastern nations. A small group of Seminoles was coerced into signing a removal treaty in 1833, but the majority of the tribe declared the treaty illegitimate and refused to leave. The resulting struggle was the Second Seminole War, which lasted from 1835 to 1842. As in the first war, fugitive slaves fought beside the Seminoles who had taken them in. Thousands of lives were lost in the war, which cost the Jackson administration approximately 40 to 60 million dollars -- ten times the amount it had allotted for Indian removal. In the end, most of the Seminoles moved to the new territory. The few who remained had to defend themselves in the Third Seminole War (1855-58), when the U.S. military attempted to drive them out.
<snip>
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2959.html
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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. Will wonders never cease?
I agree with Jebby.
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cureautismnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
21. Interesting Runner-Up Names from '47
Back in '47, the Florida State College for Women went coed and changed its name to FSU. Subsequently, the Seminole nickname was chosen by a vote of the student body. "Statesmen" finished second, followed by "Rebels," "Tarpons," "Fighting Warriors" and "Crackers."

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/08/06/Sports/FSU_is_unlikely_to_al.shtml

I seriously doubt any of these would win, place, or show in a 2005 vote!
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Sabriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. How about their nickname?
Does he endorse the use of "*emenholes"?
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. Gov. Bush critical of NCAA for finding some team names offensive
Recommends the following 'honoring' names

Carolina Crackers
Hollywood Hook Noses
New York Shylocks
Tennessee Trailer Bums
Idaho Inbreeds
...

People who find such names offensive are 'ridiculous', he added.
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