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RSchewe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 02:11 AM
Original message
LA Times: FBI reopens Niger forgery case.
Edited on Sat Dec-03-05 02:12 AM by RSchewe
FBI Reopens Inquiry Into Forgery Leading to Iraq War - Los Angeles Times

WASHINGTON -- The FBI has reopened an inquiry into one of the most intriguing aspects of the pre-Iraq war intelligence fiasco: How the Bush administration came to rely on forged documents linking Iraq to nuclear weapons materials as part of its justification for the invasion.

The documents inspired intense U.S. interest in the buildup to the war -- and they led the CIA to send a former ambassador to the African nation of Niger to investigate whether Iraq had sought the materials there. The ambassador, Joseph C. Wilson IV, found little evidence to support the claim, and the documents were later deemed to have been forged.

more...


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-niger3dec03,0,4700538.story?coll=la-home-headlines
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. OOooohh, that could get good real quick n/t
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. Someone go down the memory hole and bring this back up?
Fascinating.....put Fitzgerald in charge. Unless they've completely covered their tracks, the trail should end up in the OSP. I'd say this administration must be losing control of the government if they can't keep this stuffed. Not good for Bush-Cheney.

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Applan Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
51. Watched Fahrenheit 911 again last night
It's on Showtime channel this weekend and Showtime are having a free trial weekend on DirecTV and some cable.

Michael Moore is a genius- everything in that movie is fact based and as we discover more and more about the lies that led to this war, it becomes more and more relevant.

Be warned though, as you see Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and all the other sleazebags lying through their teeth, it will make your blood boil.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
74. Not entirely true...
It really is a propaganda film. A very accurate propaganda film which raises very good questions... but propaganda nonetheless.

One interesting point is that the FBI really did give the go-ahead to fly the Saudis out of the US.

That and Moore doesn't dig nearly deep enough.

If you want to see something good, watch "Hijacking Catastrophe".
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. I call it a documentary. I would even call a film made my the right
wing a documentary if it had a similarly high accuracy rating as F9-11 does. Propaganda for me contains lies, is slanderous, tries to hard to persuade, leaves big holes in logic, etc.

F 9-11 is a documentary film with humor. Not a movie. Not propaganda. imo

But, I'd like to know where the official crossover point is as judged by Film Societies or other people who have spent time studying the merits. I'm not saying you are not an expert, I'd just like you or someone to share their expertise about recognized differentiations.
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PinkyisBlue Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #76
96. F9-11
I'm no expert, but I call it a documentary as well.

Why is it that Democrats/liberals are always hardest on each other? F9-11 was an incredible, factual documentary, and I believe it won an Oscar or some award for "best documentary". Why knock it down just because the Pubs do? In fact, if you have the DVD version, at the end of the film there are some special added features; one of the features is about some of the Iraq people after we invaded their country, and it is so sad I wanted to cry (and I don't often cry during films). I think Michael Moore is a genius the way he combines facts with humor. Another great documentary he made about ten years ago is called The Big One, about corporate downsizing. It's excellent.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #76
125. dupe
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 01:17 PM by Dr_eldritch


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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #76
127. You mistake my meaning...
Yes, his facts are dead-on and I've yet to see them disproven. But it is a propaganda film in that is does promote an opinion. A documentary becomes 'propaganda' when it is meant to sway public opinion with the views of the producer no matter how valid or fact-based those opinions may be.

F-9/11, as I have said, is a very good film which raises excellent questions I've yet to see answered. I do believe Moore made a little much over the Saudis being given a pass out of the country. Personally I would have liked to see them held, but it wasn't likely their relationship to the Administration alone got them out. As far as I have found, the clearance went through all the proper channels.
Moore leaves us with the impression that that strings were pulled from on high by people with an interest in hiding something. That might have been the case, but, in my opinion, there really isn't enough there to do more than raise distracting questions.
Perhaps I will learn more at some point, but one thing is unmistakable - Moore intends to paint the administration in an unfavorable light.
My absolute belief that he is right to do so does not change the fact that the film's intent is to persuade.

Yes, documentaries can evoke feelings, they usually do, but they are linear in presentation and generally do not employ juxtaposition the way Moore does. Moore uses juxtaposition for two reasons; to call attention a dynamic or relationship, and to promote his perspective. I believe his perspective is very good, but that does not make it neutral.

This is why I see F-9/11 as propaganda. But let's go to Webster's and see if I've always thought of propaganda wrongly;



Main Entry: pro·pa·gan·da
Pronunciation: "prä-p&-'gan-d&, "prO-
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Congregatio de propaganda fide Congregation for propagating the faith, organization established by Pope Gregory XV died 1623
1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor* for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations* spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=propaganda

*emphasis added
(Oh, and I did just look that up now... I'm not messing with you.)

So no, something needn't be misleading, in fact it can be absolutely correct and factual and still be considered propaganda.


I do hope I've cleared up my position.

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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #127
129. Yes, you made a good point - several, in fact. I guess I have a
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 02:33 PM by higher class
prejudice about the word since I feel that what we are getting from Murdoch, GE, TIme-Warner and whoever it is that owns ABC and CBS, is pure propaganda in the old USSR and People's Republic tradtions. I start to shake when I think of the propaganda that has been pushed on us. We are no better than the most un-democratic of countries and I am always on guard and cannot tolerate the hypocrisy and the people who can't see it. It is a word that makes me feel horror.

But, it looks like you're right technically. I need a new word to refer to when talking about the PNAC World and MSM propaganda.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #129
130. I guess there is a difference in propaganda that is passed off as our
daily news and propaganda that we get in a film that we have the option not to view. Imposed? Voluntary?
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #129
132. Yes, in it's pure form, 'Propaganda' does apply... but
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 05:02 PM by Dr_eldritch
You are absolutely correct that the connotations we've associatd with the word lend 'illegitimacy' to our definition.

I did mean it in the pure sense, but I must absolutely agree that Moore's facts are dead-on, even if I believe they are aligned in such a way to support his (well founded) opinions.

By and large I agree with Moore that questions need to be answered.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #127
136. There's a lot more to the Bush/Saudi connections than meets the eye....
American MSM will never discuss it and people's lives have been ruined when they try to point out the connections:

http://antifascist2005.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/6/61854/9150

Even Wayne Madsen has received a death threat.

I suggest going to the Canadian MSM to learn more:

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/

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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #136
137. Thank you for those.
I understand the connection, but I would have to know more about who said what where when and to whom to believe the Saudis were actually complicit.

In the two years I've been around DU, I've done well over a thousand hours of research into various topics. So If I don't delve into this right away, please forgive me as my wife has been starved of enough attention.

Thanks again.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #137
142. Your welcome.... a lot of it has to do with money flow...
and the fact that Osama may not be the outcast of the family that we are led to believe. The conclusion is that Al Qaida is being paid off so as not to attack the one's paying them.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #127
144. So by definition
So by definition F9-11 IS propaganda because it furthers a point of view or cause against some opposing view or cause. In that case all novels, films, tv shows and even poems, if written and produced with a clear point of view, contain an element of what could be called propaganda. But that may be so broad as to render the label uninteresting.

Is "propaganda" a film genre catagory different from "documentary"? Or are we talking apples and oranges here? i.e. in cases like this, calling it propaganda, although literally true, is a misleading statement. It is in fact a skillfully written directed and produced documentary film. (Speaking in terms of the genre.)

This is an important distinction for me at any rate.
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #74
103. drink up!
It really is a propaganda film.






Cher
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #103
138. Actually... yes.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #74
108. I usually respect your opinion but can't believe you said this
What is not true? - other than the goofy ties that the freepers speak of.
It is not propaganda either IMHO. It has been virtually one of the closest to the truth of anything floated in the Mainstream.
Maybe you just misspoke
;)
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #108
126. This was supposed to be a response to someone else...
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 01:26 PM by Dr_eldritch
But I'm having all kinds of editing trouble, so I'm just going to leave it.


Yes, his facts are dead-on and I've yet to see them disproven. But it is a propaganda film in that is does promote an opinion. A documentary becomes 'propaganda' when it is meant to sway public opinion with the views of the producer no matter how valid or fact-based those opinions may be.

F-9/11, as I have said, is a very good film which raises excellent questions I've yet to see answered. I do believe Moore made a little much over the Saudis being given a pass out of the country. Personally I would have liked to see them held, but it wasn't likely their relationship to the Administration alone got them out. As far as I have found, the clearance went through all the proper channels.
Moore leaves us with the impression that that strings were pulled from on high by people with an interest in hiding something. That might have been the case, but, in my opinion, there really isn't enough there to do more than raise distracting questions.
Perhaps I will learn more at some point, but one thing is unmistakable - Moore intends to paint the administration in an unfavorable light.
My absolute belief that he is right to do so does not change the fact that the film's intent is to persuade.

Yes, documentaries can evoke feelings, they usually do, but they are linear in presentation and generally do not employ juxtaposition the way Moore does. Moore uses juxtaposition for two reasons; to call attention a dynamic or relationship, and to promote his perspective. I believe his perspective is very good, but that does not make it neutral.

This is why I see F-9/11 as propaganda. But let's go to Webster's and see if I've always thought of propaganda wrongly;

Main Entry: pro·pa·gan·da
Pronunciation: "prä-p&-'gan-d&, "prO-
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Congregatio de propaganda fide Congregation for propagating the faith, organization established by Pope Gregory XV died 1623
1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor* for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations* spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=propaganda

*emphasis added
(Oh, and I did just look that up now... I'm not messing with you.)

So no, something needn't be misleading, in fact it can be absolutely correct and factual and still be considered propaganda.


I do hope I've cleared up my position.

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paritom Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #126
128. heartily disagree - polemicist
I believe a less negative word would be polemic, propaganda certainly is not a word I would associate with F911.

I would call M Moore a polemicist.

polemic
n.
1. A controversial argument, especially one refuting or attacking a specific opinion or doctrine.
2. A person engaged in or inclined to controversy, argument, or refutation.
adj. also po·lem·i·cal (--kl)
Of or relating to a controversy, argument, or refutation.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/polemic
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #128
133. If it's polemical, then it's not a 'Documentary'. n/t
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #74
114. Propaganda is a very loaded term for it
Use of the word "propaganda" insinuates dishonesty, unfair persuasion using dubious or false information. All the facts presented in MM's film are documented to be true.

His little rhetorical questions may have been speculation, but then, we get that everyday from the MSM, yet no-one calls them "propagandists".

What I prefer is the the term "POV documentary".
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #114
134. You are right, the term does carry those connotations, but
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #134
135. I get a little sensitive about this
I'm a fan of MM's from way back. And when I hear RWers calling his work "propaganda", I bristle. And they definitely mean it pejoratively.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
90. Two Executive Orders were signed, National Emergencies for oil
none for nuculear projects, WMD, etc. Know them by their fruits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13303
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YoungAndLiberal Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #51
98. Farenheit sucks


That movie made us look like idiots, and it got more votes for Bush.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #98
107. I don't think it sucks or got votes for the chimp
Care to explain that?
Welcome to DU!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #98
117. I doubt either
liberal or young, I'd like some proof
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #98
123. ?
No, it's a very good documentary. It is meant to sway opinion, which makes it a propaganda film, but it is filld with some very good facts and raises excellent questions that should concern anybody who saw it. (a point I raised that a few who protested my earlier post seem to have missed)

If you can say it sucks, then say that it speaks for Democrats and not all concerned Americans, then it is apparent you either never saw it, or you don'thave the capacity to understand what you saw. Considering how easy the film is to digest, the latter would be rather sad.

Enjoy your stay?
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. This may be one of those rare (lately) cases...
... where the FBI had no choice given the bad press. It makes the FBI look either crooked or like stumblebums when they have two opportunities to interview the principal actor in the matter and don't bother to try, and then, on top of that gaffe, take SISMI's word for everything without checking....
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
45. Spot on, punpirate.......
it DOES make the FBI look either crooked ot like stumblebums, as you say. Will they just blow it off and let fall into the memory hole, again? Sure, they might give the appearance of "investigating" it, but the "investigation" might just disappear into thin air as so many others have done.
The bush cabal seems to own the FBI and I'm not putting much stake in this effort. When I see the headlines naming members of the BFEE as the ones responsible for creating the Niger document, THEN I'll believe the FBI is serious about investigating these crooks.
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joeunderdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. The "larger deception campaign," is all that matters here.
Whether you're talking 911 connection or (forged) Niger docs, the lack of evidence that they represented any real threat was known well BEFORE the invasion. There were millions of bad leads from all intelligence agencies that were labeled as such that weren't used to build a case for war. These were, and they KNEW they were bad. Does anyone out there really believe that they didn't know this before they went into Iraq?

It's the follow-the-money game that will lead us to the person with the motive. I suspect the money was laundered out of the Bush Cabal somewhere deep in the bowels of their criminal empire and that this was just one big make-pretend smoking gun that was needed to sell the war. If they find that out, then there is a serious case for manufacturing falsehoods and intentionally misleading Congress and the public. THAT's when things could get interesting.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
75. But I have to think...
If some of the power players see the BFEE falling apart they will have to decide where in the heap they want to end up.

Right now, many people in the know are in positions to help bring the empire down and may just be waiting for conditions to be just right. That way, when the dust settles, they can emerge as 'real heroes' without partisan agendas. That will keep them in power long after the BA is done.

Wait just a little while for that divine breeze to shift just the right way.
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
56. Exactly what I was thinking. The Senate members with morals
are pushing the FBI to do its job. Government is starting to work as it should be, instead of these intelligence agencies screeching "threat to national security" whenever they want to cover something up. Politicians like Bob Graham are the real heroes here. He has been fighting to get the truth out for years, the rest sense a shift in the political wind. Now let's see if Congress can get some oversight with teeth in it for the Intelligence Community in general.
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julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #56
78. I suspect that the
Edited on Sat Dec-03-05 05:16 PM by julianer
pressure is coming from elsewhere than Senators. I think that what we are seeing is a split in the plutocracy - some, who previously went along with the neo-con agenda (hey, it might have worked out) are now seriously worried about the path that Bush may be heading down - widespread demands for house cleaning and investigations.

They don't want that to get out of control hence they will use the normal methods to get rid of Bush (their press, their Senators), then say 'look the system works' and its back to business as usual with a new front man in the WH.

Edit for spelling: what's a plotocracy, when its at home?
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
4. OMG!!! This is incredible! K&R! See, the Dems have been busy!!!
<snip>
After talking with committee members, FBI officials decided to pursue "additional work" on the case, likely exploring the origins of the forgeries and whether the documents had been created specifically to help make the case for ousting Saddam Hussein.

"This is such a high-profile issue for a lot of reasons, and we think it's important to make sure there aren't lingering questions," said an aide to Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV, D-W. Va., vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. "There's always a chance that you do a little more investigating and you uncover something you hadn't seen before or you hadn't realized."<unsnip>

HOORAY! This is just so great! It will be really VERY interesting to see what are the results. Heads could certainly roll over this!
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. This Martino guy...
(snip)

Recent accounts in the Italian press said that Martino, a businessman and former freelance spy who was fired from the Italian military intelligence agency, obtained the documents from a female friend who worked at Niger's embassy in Rome. Martino has said he was working with a more senior Italian intelligence agent, Col. Antonio Nucero, and peddled the documents to French intelligence and eventually, in 2002, to Italian journalist Elisabetta Burba.

Burba, a reporter for the magazine Panorama, later told The Times that she was angry that the fraudulent documents "had been used to justify a war." The magazine is owned by Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, a close U.S. ally and supporter of the Iraq invasion.

Last month, Martino was further implicated when Nicolo Pollari, the head of Italian military intelligence, denied that his agency was involved in fabricating the documents. Instead, Pollari told the parliamentary intelligence committee that the dossier came from Martino.

The agency soon realized the documents were fake, Pollari said, according to legislators who were at the meeting. Although Martino's role has long been known, it remains unclear whom he was working with and whether the entire scheme was his idea alone.

(snip)

Well now, could it be that Martino was working for some folks in WHIG?
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I wonder if Michael Ledeen is implicated?

From my postings in this research project:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x1113


But if the OSP is more deeply involved, Michael Ledeen, who denies any connection with the Niger documents, would have been a logical intermediary in co-ordinating the falsification of the documents and their surfacing, as he was both a Pentagon contractor and was frequently in Italy. He could have easily been assisted by ex-CIA friends from Iran-Contra days, including a former Chief of Station from Rome, who, like Ledeen, was also a consultant for the Pentagon and the Iraqi National Congress. . . .


Also several contacts between Martino and Ledeen mentioned here:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=antonio_martino

There may be bipartisan (anti-war) support in investigating Ledeen who's ideas have had a significant effect on Neocon thinking and planning.


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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Clearly something has happened to cause the FBI to reopen..
the investigation.

Perhaps someone has talked to Fitz about Ledeen?

Involvement of any kind with these forgeries would be extremely serious. Treason, perhaps?
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Here's more info on FBI investigating Ledeen....
So Bush's brain's brain is Ledeen:

http://sf.indymedia.org/mail.php?id=1717896

KARL ROVE, MICHAEL LEDEEN SPIES PROCURED FORGED NIGER DOCUMENTS
by Clayton Hallmark • Monday, Aug. 01, 2005 at 8:26 AM


Karl Rove's only full-time foreign-policy advisor is Michael Ledeen, a rabid anti-Arab, pro-Israel activist. The FBI is investigating Ledeen for procuring forged documents (shown here) on nonexistent WMD, which George Bush used to justify his war on Iraq. When Joseph Wilson exposed the farce, Rove helped "out" Wilson's CIA wife. Did Ledeen procure the documents for Rove, and how might he have done that? The story includes multinational stool pigeon Rocco Martino, Italian spy Francesco Pazienza, wanted CIA spy Robert Seldon Lady, and Pentagon analyst Larry Franklin, who's under charges of giving US secrets to Israel. http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=7256

<snip>

Ledeen has been a fixture in Washington and Israel ever since, advocating a modern version of the Crusades against Islamic nations. Based on what he has said and written, I believe Ledeen is insane.

Michael Ledeen, Rove's "brain," is one of the leading advocates for a US attack on Iran. The Washington Post quoted Ledeen as saying that Rove told him, "Anytime you have a good idea, tell me." I guess that means we can look forward to the Bush team drumming up a war with Iran.

<snip>

ROME MEETING IN DECEMBER 2001

Michael Ledeen organized a meeting in Rome to gather evidence to support the planned war. Remember, Martino obtained the Niger forgeries about this time -- possibly a littler sooner, possibly a little later. Present at the meeting were:

1. Michael Ledeen, Karl Rove's foreign policy advisor and organizer of the meeting

2. Nicolo Pollari, head of the the Italian equivalent of the CIA, the SISMI

3. Italy's Minister of Defense, Antonio Martino (no relation apparently to the spy Rocco Martino), Pollari's boss

4. Larry Franklin, an American who presently is being prosecuted in the US for giving classified information to an Israeli front group, AIPC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) -- which some would call "spying," even though he has not been charged with espionage

5. Harold Rhode: member of Dick Cheney's Office of Special Plans, protege of Ledeen, go-between with Iraqi exile and CIA asset (at the time) Ahmed Chalabi.

MUCH MORE
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. WOW.
I see several points in the articles you linked that are now a part of the LATimes current story.

Which makes the articles you linked appear credible. This is bombshell stuff.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I hope LA Times didn't fire the good people in their recent layoff nt
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
31. You can count on it and as many documents that is connected
were lost also!

The natives are getting restless here. junior is much like that King France had a few hundred years ago.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
83. I just noticed this article....
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_jackson__051202_truth_telling_la_tim.htm


Columnist Robert Scheer, a voice of truth in U.S. journalism, was recently fired by a new Bush-supporting publisher of the Los Angeles Times who hated his long-time weekly syndicated column. Scheer has responded by co-founding a new online magazine called Truthdig.

<snip>

Scheer wrote, "The publisher, Jeff Johnson, who has offered not a word of explanation to me, has privately told people that he hated every word that I wrote. I assume that mostly refers to my exposing the lies used by President Bush to justify the invasion of Iraq. Fortunately sixty percent of Americans now get the point but only after tens of thousand of Americans and Iraqis have been killed and maimed as the carnage spirals out of control. My only regret is that my pen was not sharper and my words tougher."

<snip>

the LA Times' new publisher, Jeff Johnson, wants to get in good with the Bush administration to get it to approve a lucrative media monopoly in LA since it also owns a major broadcast company there.

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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #83
141. That new Robert Scheer site, truthdig, looks interesting...
The tagline is this:
Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one.
—A.J. Liebling

A sampling of articles include:<snip>
How Bush Created a Theocracy in Iraq
Juan Cole —

Retracing the steps of Shiite religious leaders and parties who have come to dominate the post-invasion process.

and...

Friends Don’t Let Friends Use Torture

Condi Rice is so tired of Old Europe and its human rights complaints. Big deal, so the CIA is using Soviet era torture camps in Eastern Europe to stash “war on terror” prisoners. Don’t those fusspots in the EU understand that our use of torture is fundamentally different because we are the good guys and that Eastern Europe has been liberated? That outmoded European slogan of “friends don’t let friends use torture” is so over.

and...

Serious Miscalculations About Syria
Tyler Golson —

A young scholar who has lived in Damascus finds it not a “rogue state” but a complex, jittery mosaic surprisingly receptive to America. <unsnip>

Check it out here:
http://www.truthdig.com/
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
43. And without manners and consideration for others sensibilities...
...we will become what we are today.

Requires tolerance from some...and reasonable restraint from other.

This is in reference to your piccie and your sig.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #43
84. I realize that the right-wingers who oppose Ledeen....

may have an air of anti-Semitism about them, particularly Pat Buchanen, and LaRouche? Not necessarilly good "bed-fellows" considering the sensitivity on the issues.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
61. Bombshell is right. You couldn't make this stuff up with all its sinister
characters and twists and turns. I'm hoping Fitz will bring up Ledeen to answer q's about the Niger docs.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. thank you for keeping such good track with this element of the story
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
85. my pleasure ;)
:patriot:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
50. Manucher Ghorbanifar (the Iran-Contra arms dealer) was also at that...
Edited on Sat Dec-03-05 10:54 AM by Peace Patriot
...meeting (in Rome), which may be the key to what-all took place there.

I don't think it was just about forging the Niger docs--CRUDE forgeries at that (also important--quite possibly). I suspect that it was about procuring nuke materials or components (or weapons) and smuggling them into Iraq after the invasion, to be found by Judith Miller in her high profile "hunt" for WMDs in Iraq with the US troops (on a special embed contract signed by Donald Rumsfeld).

The WMD-planting theory of Traitorgate goes back to the Niger forgeries. The participants at the Rome meeting could have produced better forgeries. Why didn't they? (The flaws in the docs were ridiculous, and easily detectable.) The motive could have been to draw the CIA out, to get them to commit to a public position of no nukes in Iraq, and to discredit them forever when, at the other end of this plot, the planted nukes were "found"--a deceit that would also have greatly benefited Bush and Blair politically. (Imagine what the political landscape would look like now, if WMDs had been "found.")

Manucher Ghorbanifar was likely there (at the Rome meeting) for his expertise from a lifetime of dirty arms dealing. (I don't know what his talent at forgery might be, but he is known for dirty, deceptive, politically important, covert arms procurement and movement.)

Newmax has an interesting posting from Oct. '03, quoting Ladeen and Ghorbanifar. I think all Traitorgate researchers need to read this.

Title: "Agency 'Blew' Chance to Recover Iraqi U235," by Charles R. Smith, 10/21/03.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/10/20/213705.shtml

Here's the lead...

"According to a leading Middle East expert, the CIA missed a golden opportunity to uncover a cache of Iraqi enriched uranium.

"Michael Ledeen, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, said Manucher Ghorbanifar, a figure from the Contra-hostage arms deals from the Reagan years, contacted him.

"According to Ghorbanifar, a Shiite Iraqi and a former Iraqi military officer in Iraq had access to enriched uranium. The uranium was reportedly part of a cache hidden by Saddam, some of which had been smuggled to Iran by the Shiite and the Iraqi officer.

"However, the U.S. intelligence agency showed little or no interest in checking out the report of weapons-grade uranium at an Iraqi nuclear site.

"'The CIA dropped the ball,' stated Ledeen...." (MORE)

--------------------

First I'd heard of this. I wasn't following Ledeen and Ghorbanifar back then (in '03). (Perhaps we should have been checking Neo-Con websites.)

The upshot of this article is that the CIA didn't trust Ghorbanifar and refused to deal with him--but met with the contact, demanded a sample of this "weapons-grade uranium," which was not produced, and their skepticism drove the contact back into hiding. Lost opportunity, according to Newmax, Ledeen and Ghorbanifar.

The dates of this incident are not mentioned anywhere in the article. All we can know is: sometime after the invasion (because the US is within Iraq, looking for WMDs) and before Oct. 21, 2003 (date of the article). Ledeen tries to peddle this uranium claim in several ways. Tries the CIA. They put him off ("we're looking into it"). Tries David Kay (who doesn't return Ghorbanifar's phone calls.) Then goes back to the CIA.

Here's how I read this: Ledeen-Ghorbanifar were trying to set the CIA up--to get them to buy into Iraq having uranium (that Ledeen-Ghorbanifar may or may not have successfully procured and planted in Iraq), or to buy into a false story that would then be discredited. The CIA smelled a rat, demanded evidence, and, when no evidence was produced, probably realized what was going on. They didn't "lose an opportunity." They judged the claim to be yet more crap from Ledeen-Ghorbanifar.

Interestingly, Ledeen points the whole thing (this incident) at Iran (where the uranium supposedly was smuggled to, from Iraq), and says some self-revealing things about the CIA. ("The CIA has a habit of turning on people who help them. They view the only reliable sources are those that they have recruited.") (??)

Newsmax then quotes Douglas Brown of the "Nathan Hale Institute" who rants about the Democrats at the CIA.

The article ends on a curious note--with a "senior intelligence source from a U.S. ally" suggesting that the reason the CIA lost interest was that it might have been American uranium. (?!)

I don't have enough information to parse this article fully--for what it may be inadvertently revealing about Ledeen-Ghorbanifar plots re: the Iraq war (or for what might be seeable with hindsight--in view of all that we know now). But it sure seems to support one of the main points of the WMD-planting theory of Traitorgate, that they were dealing in actual weapons components, not just in documents.

-------

(Note: The WMD-planting theory of Traitorgate is that there are signs of panic and rush in the Bushites' outing Plame--for instance, they called at least SIX journalists in the week of July 7-14, to find a patsy reporter to out her--and then, four days later, outed the entire CIA WMD-counter-proliferation project, Brewster-Jennings--overkill, if the motive was just to punish Wilson for his article. This panic was caused by something other than Wilson's article, that happened at almost the same time. The article was published July 6, 2003. On July 7, Tony Blair was informed that the Brits' chief WMD expert, Dr. David Kelly, who had been whistleblowing to the BBC (late May 2003) about the exaggerated pre-war WMD intelligence, "could say some uncomfortable things" (could say, not HAD said). If what Kelly knew over and above the "sexed up" pre-war intel (what he "could say" had to do with the WMD-planting plot, that could have been the source of the Bushites fear and panic about Plame--it was fear that their deceptive WMD-planting scheme and its foiling would be exposed. Plame was outed July 14. Kelly was found dead July 18. His office and computers were searched. Four days later, on July 22, Brewster-Jennings was also outed.

(There is also an intriguing connection between Kelly and Judith Miller. Miller had used Dr. Kelly as a major quoted source in her book "Germs," and it was to Miller that Kelly sent one of his last emails, on the day he died, July 17, warning of the "many dark actors playing games." Kelly was an old hand at Iraq WMDs, knew the country well, had friends there, and was a top scientist who strongly believed in his work of counter-proliferation. He would have been in a good position to discover and investigate such a plot. There were reports of such a plot (US plot to plant WMDs in Iraq, that was foiled) from Islamic news sources a few months before he began whistleblowing.)


-------------------


Throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #50
62. Well said, Peace Patriot, I think you're onto something. What was the
alleged reason for Dr. Kelly's death? Obviously, the timing is highly suspicious.
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #62
86. This is wacky..
Alright, I found an article on this in "Prison Planet"

http://www.prisonplanet.com/230204kellywasmurdered.html

<snip>

Apparently at ease to discuss these explosive disclosures, Shrimpton explained that there was advance knowledge of Kelly's death in Whitehall, but that the deed itself was most likely carried out by the French external security organization, DGSE. There was no indication that anybody in MI5 or MI6 had been involved. He went further by suggesting that the hit squad itself was composed of Iraqis from the former regime's Mukhabarat intelligence organization, recruited from Damascus with the help of Syria's own intelligence apparatus. They were apparently then flown into Corsica, seven days prior to the murder. He doubts that any of the hit-squad are still alive.

<snip>

So the UK National Security Lawyer thinks the French used an Iraqi hit squad to kill someone who was spreading evidence that they (the French) were right, Iraq had no WMDs and the US & UK were wrong to invade.

Man, if you're gonna lie, make something up that makes sense.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #86
95. FBI Reopens Inquiry Into Forgery Leading to Iraq War -->duh!!
So it appears that all that has happened is that the msm/corporate media have finally decided to expose what has already been documented and talked about via the net for well over a year++ -- Why did Porter Goss allow the FBI to reopen this inquiry? -- Bush hired Goss to fire anyone who's views/opinions weren't the same as his regarding the lead up to the war.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #95
110. Goss purged the cia
I don't think his tentacles reached into fbi. That must be someone elses job.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #50
105. I remember this now....
Ledeen pushed through two successive meetings using his backchannel(Ghorbanifar), each time being warned by Stephen J. Hadley to stop. By late 2004 the Senate Intelligence committee wanted to call for an intensive investigation, but it was feared that Democrats on the committee might use this to affect the election, so it was called off to resume at some point after the election:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0410.marshallrozen.html


Over the last year, the Senate Intelligence Committee has conducted limited inquiry into the meetings, including interviews with Feith and Ledeen. But under terms of a compromise agreed to by both parties, a full investigation into the matter was put off until after the November election. Republicans on the committee, many of whom sympathize with the "regime change" agenda at DoD, have been resistant to such investigations, calling them an election-year fishing expedition. Democrats, by contrast, see such investigations as vital to understanding the central role Feith's office may have played in a range of a dubious intelligence enterprises, from pushing claims about a supposed Saddam-al Qaeda partnership and overblown estimates of alleged Iraqi stocks of WMD to what the committee's ranking minority member Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-W.Va.) calls "the Chalabi factor" (Rhode and others in Feith's office have been major sponsors of the Iraqi exile leader, who is now under investigation for passing U.S. intelligence to Iran). With the FBI adding potential espionage charges to the mix the long-simmering questions about the activities of Feith's operation now seem certain to come under renewed scrutiny.


More context here, with a great summary by Juan Cole:

http://fugop.blogspot.com/2004/08/spy-case.html


Franklin's movements reveal the contours of a rightwing conspiracy of warmongering and aggression, an orgy of destruction, for the benefit of the Likud Party, of Silvio Berlusconi's business in the Middle East, and of the Neoconservative Right in the United States. It isn't about spying. It is about conspiring to conscript the US government on behalf of a foreign power or powers.


Has anyone noticed what happened in the Likud party last week?

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1132475608475&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #105
111. What do you make of the Sharon move?
Is he starting to see the light? Maybe Peace is a better choice.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #111
139. I believe that....

our presence in Iraq and our threats against Iran and Syria are resulting in pressure being put on Israel. That may not have been the intention, but that seems to be one of the ways this is playing out. Israelis can either allow it to make them crazy and support the Likud, or they can take the sane route, as they have in their disagreement with the U.S. over the future of Syria:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1132475675097&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull


Israel and the US are at odds over the future of Syria in a post-Bashar Assad era, The Jerusalem Post has learned.

In a strategic dialogue held last week in Washington between the two countries, Israeli representatives warned that a future regime in Syria, should Assad lose power, might be just as problematic as the old one.


It sounds like Sharon is sensing the changing tide and decided it is best to act proactively rather than be reactive.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #105
120. "La Repubblica POLLARI GAVE FORGERIES TO HADLEY" and MORE
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 12:17 PM by seemslikeadream

http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2005/10/index.html#008117

HADLEY NAMED. La Repubblica has a dynamite series this week on the origin of the yellowcake forgeries. Laura Rozen reports:
With Patrick Fitzgerald widely expected to announce indictments in the CIA leaks investigation, questions are again being raised about the murky matter that first led to the appointment of the special counsel: namely, how the Bush White House came into possession of discredited Italian intelligence reports claiming that Iraq sought uranium "yellowcake" from Niger.
The key documents supposedly proving the Iraqi attempt turned out to be crude forgeries on official stationery stolen from the African nation's Rome embassy. Among the most tantalizing aspects of the debate over the Iraq War is the origin of those fake documents and the role of the Italian intelligence services in disseminating them.

In an explosive series of articles appearing this week in the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, investigative reporters Carlo Bonini and Giuseppe d'Avanzo reveal how Niccolo Pollari, chief of Italy's military intelligence service, known as SISMI, brought the Niger yellowcake story directly to the White House after his insistent overtures had been rejected by the Central Intelligence Agency in 2001 and 2002.

Today's exclusive report in La Repubblica reveals that Pollari met secretly in Washington on September 9, 2002, with then–Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley. Their secret meeting came at a critical moment in the White House campaign to convince Congress and the American public that war in Iraq was necessary to prevent Saddam Hussein from developing nuclear weapons.

The La Repubblica article quotes a Bush administration official saying, "I can confirm that on September 9, 2002, general Nicolo Pollari met Stephen Hadley."

Laura will have more on this story later today.


and this
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=7256


JANUARY 2001 BREAK-IN AT NIGER EMBASSY

At night, between the first and second of the January 2001, a mysterious thief came to the embassy of Niger in Rome and into the residence of the counselor in charge. It turned out that some letterhead and seals (see photocopy) were missing. A second dossier on Niger-Iraq trade soon came into Martino’s hands, one that included references to uranium trafficking. Martino claims he got it from embassy personnel and that he thought it was authentic.


http://nuralcubicle.blogspot.com/2005/10/berlusconi-behind-fake-yellowcake.html


Double-Dealers and Dilettantes--the Men Behind Nigergate Were All Italians.

The military intervention in Iraq was justified by two revelations: Saddam Hussein attempted to acquire unprocessed uranium (yellowcake) in Niger (1) for enrichment with centrifuges built with aluminum tubes imported from Europe(2). The fabricators of the twin hoaxes (there was never any trace in Iraq of unprocessed uranium or centrifuges) were the Italian government and Italian military intelligence. La Repubblica has attempted to reconstruct the who, where and why of the manufacture and transfer to British and American intelligence of the dodgy dossier for war.

They are the same two hoaxes that Judith Miller, the reporter who betrayed her newspaper, published (together with Michael Gordon) on September 8, 2002. In a lengthy investigative piece for the New York Times, Miller reported that Saddam could have built an atomic weapon with those aluminum tubes. These were the goods that the hawks in the Bush administration were expecting.

The "war dance" which followed Judith Miller’s scoop seemed like "carefully-prepared theater” to an attentive media-watcher, Roberto Reale of Ultime Notizie (The Latest News).

Condoleezza Rice, who was then White House Security Advisor, said on CNN: We don’t want the smoking gun to look like a mushroom cloud. A menacing Dick Cheney told Meet the Press that We know with absolute certainty that Saddam is using his technical and commercial capacities to acquire the material necessary to enrich uranium to build a nuclear weapon. This was the beginning of an escalation of fear.

26 September 2002: Colin Powell warns the Senate: The Iraqi attempt to acquire uranium is proof of its nuclear ambitions.

19 December 2002: The information on Niger and the uranium is included in the three-page President’s Daily Briefing prepared each day by the CIA and the Department of State for George W. Bush. The ambassador to the United Nations, John Negroponte, added his stamp of approval: Why is Iraq dissimulating its purchase of Niger uranium?

more

http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/25/la-repubblica-scoop

....

It’s a fact that on the eve of the Iraq war, and under the supervision of the diplomatic advisor to the Foreign Ministry, Gianni Castellaneta (today ambassador to the USA), the director of SISMI organized his agenda in Washington with the staff of Condoleeza Rice, who was National Security Adviser to the White House at that time. La Repubblica is able to document this two track process between the government and Italian intelligence. At least one of these ‘barely official’ meetings of Pollari’s was, according to secret service agents, the ‘creation of a system’ that would bring together government, intelligence and public affairs .

To summarize: Nicolo Pollari’s SISMI wanted to substantiate the the Iraqi acquisition of raw uranium to build a nuclear bomb. The game-plan was rather transparent. ‘Authentic’ documents relating to an attempted acquisition in Niger (old Italian intelligence from the 1980’s) were the dowry of the second-in-command of CISMI’s Roman headquarters (Antonio Nucera). They were bundled together with another fabricated document … through a simulated burglary on the Nigerien embassy (from which they had gotten headed notepaper and seals). The documents were shown by Pollari’s men to CIA station agents, and at the same time, a SISMI ‘postman’ by the name of Rocco Martino was sent to Sir Richard Dearlove of MI6 in London.

turning to the second chapter of the Great Swindle, organized in Italy, to build the case that military intervention in Iraq was necessary. … the Italian report on uranium …

… The CIA analysts thought the first report ‘very limited’ and ‘without the necessary details.’ INR analysts in the Department of State assessed the information as ‘highly suspect.’ … The immediate impact on the American Intelligence community wasn’t very gratifying for Pollari … Gianni Castellaneta advised him to look in ‘other directions’ too, while the minister of Defence, Antonio Martino invited him to meet ‘an old friend of Italy’s.’ The American friend was Michael Ledeen, an old fox in the ‘parallel’ intelligence community in the US, who had been declared an undesirable person in our country in the 1980’s . Ledeen was at Rome on behalf of the Office of Special Plans, created at the Pentagon by Paul Wolfowiz to gather intelligence that would support military intervention in Iraq. A source at Forte Braschi told La Repubblica : “Pollari got a frosty reception from the CIA’s station head in Rome, Jeff Castelli, for this information on uranium. Castelli apparently let the matter drop . Pollari got the hint and talked about it with Michael Ledeen.’ We don’t know what Michael Ledeen did in Washington. But at the beginning of 2002, Paul Wolfowitz convinced Dick Cheney that the uranium trail intercepted by the Italians had to be explored top to bottom. The vice-president, as the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence tells it, once again asked the CIA ‘very decisively’ to find out more about the ‘possible acquisition of Nigerien uranium.’ In this meeting, Dick Cheney explicitly said that this piece of intelligence was at the disposition of a “foreign service.”

… Forte Braschi says that “Pollari was incredibly cunning – he knew that it wasn’t enough to rely on the CIA to push the uranium story. It was necessary to work, as Palazzo Chigi and the Department of Defence had indicated, with the Pentagon and with the National Security Adviser, Rice. … An administration official has told La Repubblica “I can confirm that on September 9 2002, General Nicolo Pollari met Stephen Hadley, the deputy to the National Security Adviser, Condoleeza Rice.”… SISMI’s ‘postman,’ Rocco Martino contacted a journalist for a weekly newspaper – edited by Carlo Rossella – to sell her the documents at issue. … Panorama had a worldwide scoop. Title “The War? It’s already begun,’ it spoke of ‘half a ton of uranium.’ … The government asked. The intelligence service gave. The media spread it. The government confirmed it. It was an old disinformation technique from the Cold War. Exaggerate the danger of the threat. Terrify and convince public opinion of it.

more

http://nuralcubicle.blogspot.com/2005/10/sismis-war-in-iraq-iranian-connection.html

Monday, October 31, 2005
SISMI's War in Iraq: The Iranian Connection

Carlo Bonini and Giuseppi d'Avanzo are at it again. Another three-part blockbuster exposé on the involvement of Italian Military intelligence inside Iraq.

Part I: From Chelabi to Iranian Agents--SISMI's War in Iraq
A strategic summit in Rome with the Pentagon.

ROME: He’s another politico-military intelligence chief. He’s a SISMI man. He makes his way slowly down the narrow hallway of the bar at the Hotel Eden in via Ludovisi. He stops to admire the sky and the attractive skyline of Rome in the April sun (it is 22 April 2003) through the hotel’s large windows. He looks elegant in his Chairman's Committee grisaille. . He selects a table at the center of the terrace. The waiter walks over and solicitously takes his order. The gentleman orders a freshly-squeezed orange juice and a double espresso. The Anglo-American invasion of Iraq began on the night of 19-20 March, thirty-three days earlier.

Today, as Silvio Berlusconi reveals that he never supported the military intervention in Iraq, it is fitting to tell the story of how our country, Italy, although allegedly opposed to war as our Premier now claims, was an active protagonist in war preparations and operations.

We will reveal the different arrangements and plans of action, as well as who planned them and with whom they were planned.

For us Italians, recounts the high-ranking SISMI official to La Repubblica, the war on Iraq was already underway in the days before Christmans, 2002. He smiles. He is animated with a glint of excitement in his eyes and for once seems seems to have no qualms about letting his personal satisfaction slip from behind a frozen mask.

Our man is too disciplined to crow about his successes and too stubborn to be discouraged by defeat. He tells us: It was a novelty, a revolution for our intelligence services. Never before in its history has SISMI been so prominently involved in military ground operations and a major role in planning a war campaign, to boot. The Italian Government? Of course our work was authorized by the Italian Government—are you joking? It was real war, not an exercise! The twenty men we sent to Iraq were risking their lives. He pauses. The espresso arrives. He sips it slowly, his eyes half-closed with satisfaction.

He continues. Twenty men from three SISMI departments were involved: Intelligence, Operations and Counterterrorism. They were divided into small groups which were to operate in and around the areas of Kirkuk, Baghdad and Basrah using outlandish disguises. Each unit was unaware of the identities and the mission of the others. Each unit was ordered to operate within a sector of territory and to work with intelligence “assets” who had already been selected and trained. The objectives were twofold: To identify Iraqi defenses and to evaluate the readiness of the Iraqi armed forces.

If combat was less intense than expected, it is due to the job we did—and we didn’t do it alone. If we won the war before firing a shot, it was due to our successes at infiltration and intelligence-gathering.

The story of Italian military intervention in Iraq begins when the resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, Michael Ledeen, sponsored by Defense Minister Antonio Martino, debarks in Rome with Pentagon men in tow to meet a handful of “Iranian exiles.” The meeting is organized by SISMI. In an Agency “safe house” near Piazza di Spagna (however, other sources have told us it was a reserved room in the Parco dei Principi Hotel).


"Reid: Cheney Obstructing Investigation"

http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/002979.html

Reid: Cheney Obstructing Investigation
From Laura Rosen at War and Piece...

Reid on Fire

The New Republic has more on what I reported last month: that Cheney has intervened with chairman Pat Roberts to obstruct the Senate Select Intelligence committee's investigation of the Bush administration's use of Iraq intelligence. TNR write:

...--More dramatically, Reid also made it clear that he believes the delay in the Senate Intelligence Committee's investigation of prewar Iraq WMD--the underlying issue behind Tuesday's closed session--is entirely attributable to Vice President Dick Cheney. "Nothing happens regarding intelligence gathering ... unless it's signed off on by the Vice President," he said. " Roberts couldn't do it"--i.e., Roberts couldn't conduct a full investigation without Cheney's approval. When I asked Reid whether he meant to state so flatly that Cheney was personally and directly stalling the Intelligence Committee's work, he didn't pause a beat. In fact he almost stood from his chair. "Yes. I say that without any qualification ... Circle it." ...

I don't understand why we haven't heard Pat Roberts complaining more vociferously about the obstruction he's experienced from the Veep. Why would the Senator stand for the administration bucking oversight and Congressional reporting requirements on Iraq intelligence, torture, black site prisons, etc.? (Via Tapped's Ezra Klein).



http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051103/pl_afp/usital...

But committee staff sources say that before the cooperation ceased, the committee had received from Feith’s office internal memos suggesting that the office may indeed have been conducting unlawful activities. In particular, Democratic staffers are interested in a secret December 2001 meeting of two Feith deputies, Larry Franklin and Harold Rhode, with Ghorbanifar in Rome. The meeting also included members of a foreign intelligence service (Italy’s SISMI). The catch is that it wasn’t reported in advance to the intelligence committee or the CIA, in possible violation of Section 502 of the National Security Act, which says that anyone conducting intelligence activities must inform the committee and the agency



"Italy MPs probe Niger-Iraq claim"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4402594.stm

Italy MPs probe Niger-Iraq claim

The director of the Italian military intelligence agency (Sismi) is due to give evidence over allegations that Iraq sought to buy uranium from Niger.

Nicolo Pollari is testifying before a parliamentary committee over reports that Italy wilfully gave the US and UK evidence that turned out to be false......


The Italian hearing into the claims is being held behind closed doors, but some details were expected to emerge later.

Italian newspaper La Repubblica says Italian agents gave the false dossier to British and American intelligence services........


"Niger Uranium Forgeries: Excavating a Roman Mystery"

http://www.antiwar.com/blog/comments.php?id=2488_0_1_0_C


One has to wonder how Laura can have such certain knowledge of what Fitzgerald has or has not requested. Ah, but if there is no such report -- and she cites the head of the Italian intelligence oversignt committee, one Enzo Bianco, denying it -- then how can Fitzgerald have requested it? There is, here, perhaps some confusion as to the nature of the "report" -- is it official, or is it just a transcript of a hearing? I think this guy, whoever he is, has the right idea.

Giovanni D'Avanzo, writing in La Repubblica , poses a few questions to Senor Bianco's oversight committee, and in the course of them avers:

"Sometime after October 9, 2002, a team of SISMI agents are ordered to keep Rocco Martino under close surveillance ... Why was no surveillance memo or report issued to judicial investigators on Rocco Martino, who is investigated by the Rome Public Prosecutor’s office in 2003, until the fall of 2004?"

So there was an investigation, albeit not by the Italian parliament but by Rome's public prosecutor. It could be that this is what both Walker's and my own sources are referring to.

Laura cites several other skeptics, including a reporter for La Repubblica and "a former U.S. official recently in Italy," who say this story is "the echo of a rumor put out by people back the States." She also cites Vince Cannistraro, "who at one time heard rumors of such a report from Italian sources," and who

"Now says there doesn't appear to be a parliamentary report either. 'There is no published report,”'Cannistraro told me Monday. 'If there is a report, we might expect it would have some analysis and conclusions. There is no report, at least not a published report. …I think this stuff is just getting circulated.'"

Of course it isn't published -- that's the whole point.

Yes, it's true, as Laura says, that the Italians aren't too eager to have the blame pinned on SISMI -- but that doesn't mean SISMI isn't involved. And some Italians -- the left-wing opposition coalition, for example -- might be understandably eager to expose the scandal in the run-up to Italy's elections scheduled for next year.

Laura goes into the Italian role in creating and disseminating these documents, referring to the La Repubblica series on the subject, but somehow neglects to mention the crucial American angle -- and the key role of American neocons, i.e. Michael Ledeen, in funneling the information contained in the Niger forgeries to Washington. Someone legitimized these fake documents by doing an end run around the CIA and the mainstream intelligence community, and injected a fabrication into the American intelligence stream. Who was it? La Repubblica fingers the Office of Special Plans, and names names, including Ledeen, Harold Rhode, and Larry Franklin, the confessed spy for Israel.

...

I trust my source, and I furthermore think it's unimportant whether this information is coming from the Italian parliament or Rome's public prosecutor: the point is that the information is there, and it's getting out. Antiwar.com stands by its story.


"Open the Ledeen Dossier!"

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/editorials/2005/3...

The stakes involved in the Ledeen dossier are much more significant than the particular incident around the yellowcake. As EIR documented at great length, Ledeen is not just a nasty American political operative, but had been brought into the service of one of the remnant fascist organizations of the Mussolini era, the Propaganda Two (P-2) freemasonic lodge. P-2, which was founded by avowed wartime fascist grandmaster Licio Gelli, is an outgrowth of the Venetian synarchist bankers network which runs international terrorism, and proceeds from the avowed aim of destroying all nation-states, particularly the United States. The P-2 network has been exposed over the past 20-plus years as the real center of international terrorism, including the left and right wings of the "strategy of tension" which carried out such atrocities as the 1980 Bologna bombing, and the assassination of former Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro.

Italian political life is riddled with assets, if not outright agents, of the P-2. Notable among them is Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi himself, whose membership card is a matter of public record. Given the prominence of P-2 influence in Italy, it should be no surprise that the Italians, under a Berlusconi government, were the ones who provided the cover of the forged Niger yellowcake documents, to support the Cheney-Bush war drive.

The question raised here is a fundamental one. The role of former P-2ers Ledeen and Berlusconi in promoting the war, underscores the reality that the drive for empire and world dictatorship, for which Cheney is a frontman, is in fact the project of an international synarchist oligarchy, the direct descendants of those banking families who funded Hitler and Mussolini, and created World War II. Cheney is undoubtedly a fascist thug, eager to carry out whatever wars, torture, and economic genocide are on the agenda of the desperate synarchist bankers. But the brains for these operations come from the top level of the heirs of the Venetian banking system, who know that they will destroy the United States as a republic by carrying out these plans.

The prime objective for all those patriots and world-citizens who wish to save this planet from a descent into a New Dark Age, is, of course, to remove Dick Cheney from office. But exposing the roots of Cheney policies in the global Venetian synarchist banking system, is a crucial concomitant, if we are to get the alternative, FDR-like policy put into effect.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/nolan-m2.html

How would the neocon think tanks view martial law? Michael Ledeen, a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute, and close and trusted White House adviser, has this to say on p. 173 of his book Machiavelli on Modern Leadership: Why Machiavelli’s Iron Rules Are As Timely and Important Today As Five Centuries Ago: “Paradoxically, preserving liberty may require the rule of a single leader – a dictator – willing to use those dreaded 'extraordinary measures,' which few know how, or are willing, to employ."

According to the Boston Globe, Ledeen in a 2003 speech to the American Enterprise Institute, asserted our nation’s insatiable lust for war by claiming that "All the great scholars who have studied American character have come to the conclusion that we are a warlike people and that we love war. . .What we hate is not casualties but losing." Did anyone in the media ever challenge an administration spokesman to defend Ledeen’s staggeringly wrongheaded, anti-American values? Did any of the (self-described) scholars at AEI that day ask why the GD fool would say such a thing? President Bush, for his part has personally offered these congratulations to the AEI: “At the American Enterprise Institute, some of the finest minds in our nation are at work on some of the greatest challenges to our nation. You do such good work that my administration has borrowed 20 such minds.”

The leaders of the War Machine – with their gulags, their lies, their senseless, immoral war – do not treat enemies and purported enemies terribly well. In the event of martial law, it would be naïve indeed to suspect that they would treat Americans any better. Patriots – left, right and center – should unite under the American flag to stop the War Machine today while they still can. The impeachment of Bush and Cheney is the obvious place to start. We, the people, should demand it of the US Congress, just as statesmen and citizens of their time demanded the Bill of Rights. Congress should be ordered, as well, to act responsibly and responsively and in the best interest of the sovereign Republic of the United States of America, not in the interest of neocon warmongers.


"Italy's Top Spy Names Freelance Agent as Source of Forged Niger-Iraq"

... Uranium Documents


http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytim...

Italy's Top Spy Names Freelance Agent as Source of Forged Niger-Iraq Uranium Documents

November 4, 2005 by ELAINE SCIOLINO and ELISABETTA POVOLEDO

ROME, Nov. 3 - Italy's spymaster identified an Italian occasional spy named Rocco Martino on Thursday as the disseminator of forged documents that described efforts by Iraq to buy uranium ore from Niger for a nuclear weapons program, three lawmakers said Thursday.

The spymaster, Gen. Nicolò Pollari, director of the Italian military intelligence agency known as Sismi, disclosed that Mr. Martino was the source of the forged documents in closed-door testimony to a parliamentary committee that oversees secret services, the lawmakers said.

Senator Massimo Brutti, a member of the committee, told reporters that General Pollari had identified Mr. Martino as a former intelligence informer who had been "kicked out of the agency." He did not say Mr. Martino was the forger.

The revelation came on a day when the Federal Bureau of Investigation confirmed that it had shut down its two-year investigation into the origin of the forged documents.


http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/002983.html

Laura Rozen: "The (Niger forgeries) Report that Wasn't"

For weeks in the run-up to the Libby indictment last Friday, reports swirled in the blogosphere and some wires. They contended that CIA leak prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald had “widened his probe” to include investigating the origins of the Niger yellowcake forgeries themselves. They spoke of Fitzgerald getting ahold of a secret Italian parliamentary report that reportedly fingered a gang of American neoconservatives and aides to Ahmad Chalabi as being behind the Niger forgeries.

...

There’s just one problem: Not only has Fitzgerald not received such a report or even indicated he has any interest in one. There is no Italian parliamentary report, published or unpublished, on the Niger forgeries. In fact, until today, there has been no Italian parliamentary investigation of the Niger forgeries, or the claim promoted by the Italian military intelligence organization Sismi to the CIA and other western intelligence agencies that Iraq was seeking vast quantities of yellowcake uranium in Niger.

...

A reporter with the Italian newspaper Repubblica, which published a blockbuster series on the origins of the Niger forgeries last week, said that he heard rumors of such a report while in Washington this past summer, and went back to Italy and checked them out with his sources. He was left scratching his head. Not only is there no such report, there is as yet no such Italian parliamentary investigation. Sismi’s director Nicolo Pollari was interviewed by the Italian parliamentary committee overseeing the intelligence services on Thursday, in a closed-door session.

...

The Italian military intelligence organization Sismi reported that Iraq had signed a contract to purchase 500 tons of yellowcake uranium from Niger to the CIA in October 2001 and February 2002. It also reported those claims to Britain’s foreign intelligence service, the MI6, which reported them back to Washington. A motley crew including a senior Sismi officer, a former Sismi officer turned intelligence peddler (Rocco Martino), and a Sismi asset at the Niger embassy in Rome were identified by Repubblica as having collaborated to assemble the Niger forgeries, after staging a robbery on New Year’s Day 2001 to get official Niger embassy letterhead and a diplomatic codebook. Martino reportedly sold the dossier of forgeries to the French, the British, attempted but failed to sell them to the American embassy in Rome, and to an Italian reporter working for a Berlusconi owned magazine.


Lets hope Fitzgerald really does stay un-compromised, period because everyone knows from reading it Cheney deflected the blame to Italy.

The real forgers were NOT mentioned ie Duane Claridge so you can immediately see it.....total fucking whitewash in progress and its going to take a huge entity/army to get this bastard once and for all.

Notice how there was never any mention of....MICHAEL LEDEEN, mossad etc....

More about the Whitewash....you can spot them a damn mile away now.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051103/wl_mideast_af...

"no one here has any recollection of Niger and uranium being discussed"


http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

QUESTION: Thank you. Any more explanation of the Berlusconi-President discussion about Italian intelligence on Iraq -- is this to say that Mr. Fitzgerald's finding that the Niger claim had its genesis in Italian intelligence was wrong?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Mr. Fitzgerald's -- I'll have to look back at what his finding was. I don't recall the specifics of that.

QUESTION: Fitzgerald found that what we had been calling British intelligence, the document -- the forged document --

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Maybe I missed that. I don't think so. I don't think so.

QUESTION: -- alleging an Iraq --

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Okay, I don't think he did.

QUESTION: I'm wrong on this?

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think he --

QUESTION: That's not ringing any bells.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Yes.

QUESTION: It's not ringing any bells with other people either.

QUESTION: No, it is, it is. And I can't remember if it's Fitzgerald or somebody else, but there's this is the central issue is --

QUESTION: The central issue was --

QUESTION: -- the source of the --

QUESTION: The source of the forged document was Italy, who handed it to --

SCOTT McCLELLAN: No, the -- we actually briefed on the source of the information back in July of 2003, and the source was the National Intelligence Estimate and British Intelligence. That was the basis for the reference in the President's State of the Union address.

QUESTION: Fitzgerald found an Italian tie, and I presume this is what the discussion between the President and Berlusconi was about.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Yes, they -- like I said they -- Prime Minister Berlusconi brought it up, and as they indicated, that there wasn't any documents that were provided to us on Niger and uranium by --

QUESTION: Wait, no documents or no intelligence?

SCOTT McCLELLAN: I'm sorry?

QUESTION: The press report out of Italy is a transcription -- it's a transcription of the forged documents, not the actual documents themselves. But Berlusconi said yesterday was, no information passed from Italy to the United States.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Yes, I think he was accurately reflecting what he indicated in the meeting.

QUESTION: So that accurately characterizes the President's position, that the United States never received any intelligence --

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Well, Prime Minister Berlusconi was reflecting that within the meeting, and we've previously said in regards to a question that came up about a meeting here at the White House that no one here has any recollection of Niger and uranium being discussed at that meeting, much less any documents being provided.



http://neworleans.cox.net/cci/newsnational/nationa...
Italian Lawmaker Says Country's Secret Service Warned U.S. That Iraq Uranium Documents Were Fake


"Hadley told a press briefing that he had briefly met the head of Italy's SISMI secret intelligence service, Nicolo Pollari, on September 9, 2002 in a "courtesy call" aimed at getting to know his new colleague.

"There was a meeting in Washington on that date. I did attend a meeting with him," Hadley said in response to a question about a report published last week in the Italian center-left newspaper La Repubblica, which disclosed the meeting.

"It was, so far as we can tell from our records, about less than 15 minutes. It was a courtesy call. Nobody participating in that meeting or asked about that meeting has any recollection of a discussion of natural uranium, or any recollection of any documents being passed. And that's also my recollection," he said."
AFP News
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051103/pl_afp/usital...

Well Hadley, I'm sure there was a meeting....and I'm also sure you took the Niger forgeries to Frederick Fleitz.

I mean, you wouldn't LIE about everything would you? And attempt to get executive priveledge to save your ass? Nah, not you Hadley, who lied about going to Italy to begin with!

http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp11012005.html

November 1, 2005

Berlusconi's Halloween Visit
The Plame Affair Leads to Rome
By GARY LEUPP

"All roads lead to Rome," and it seems that Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation into the Plame Affair, and more broadly the lies used to hoodwink the American people into supporting a criminal war on Iraq, will also trudge down the Appian Way lined this Halloween with the ghosts of crucified Iraqis.

The Italian newspaper La Repubblica has recently published an exposé alleging in essence that the Italian military intelligence agency SISMI (Servizio per le Informazioni e la Sicurezza Militare) at the specific behest of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi provided bogus intelligence to the Bush neocons in order to curry favor with the U.S. and to abet the relentless drive for war between 9-11 and the March 2003 invasion. This follows an Italian parliamentary report released in part to the public in July concerning the forged Niger uranium documents at the heart of the Plame Affair. These, which purport to show a deal between Baghdad and Niger for the purchase of huge quantities of yellowcake, were it seems produced in the Italian capital.

The report names four men as the likely forgers of the documents (Michael Ledeen, Dewey Clarridge, Ahmed Chalabi and Francis Brookes) and suggests that the forgeries may have been planned at December 2001 gathering in Rome involving Ledeen and SISMI chief Nicolò Pollari. Also in attendance at that meeting: Larry Franklin, Harold Rhode, Manucher Ghorbanifar, Antonio Martino and others including a former senior official of the Revolutionary Guard in Iran. Here is a true rogues' gallery.

Michael Ledeen: neocon columnist, National Review Online contributing editor, specialist on the thought of Machiavelli and on Italian fascism, former employee of the Pentagon, the State Department and the National Security Council, was involved in the transfer of arms to Iran during the Iran-Contra affair. Active in the American Enterprise Institute, Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA), and Center for Democracy in Iran (CDI). Advocates regime change by force in Iran and Syria.

Nicolò Pollari: Author of many publications on legal and economic matters, investigation techniques and intelligence. Tax law Professor at the Mediterranean University of Reggio Calabria. SISMI head since October 2001.

Dewey Clarridge: former CIA operative, famous in mid-1980s for his role in the Iran-Contra Affair. Head of CIA's Latin America division 1981-84, directed the mining of Nicaragua's harbors and helped organize the Contras. Indicted in November 1991 on seven counts of perjury and false statements, pardoned by first president Bush Christmas Eve 1992.

Ahmad Chalabi: convicted swindler, leader of U.S.-funded Iraqi National Congress, neocon ally, presently one of two deputy prime ministers in Iraqi government.

Francis Brookes: member of the "Rendon Group," a "public relations" body formed by the Pentagon engaged to promote Chalabi and the Iraqi National Congress.

Larry Franklin: colonel in USAF reserve, subordinate to Douglas Feith in Defense Department, Middle East specialist, under arrest for espionage for Israel.

Harold Rhode: Pentagon official, Middle East specialist, Ledeen protégé, American Enterprise Institute, heavy neocon.

Manucher Ghorbanifar: Iranian exile, arms dealer, one-time CIA operative distrusted by CIA since 1980s. Key figure in the Iran-Contra scandal.

Antonio Martino: Founding member of Forza Italiano (Berlusconi's political party), Professor of Economics, adjunct scholar with the Heritage Foundation, Italian Defense Minister.


http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7681

"Previous versions of the report were redacted and had all the names removed, though it was possible to guess who was involved. This version names Michael Ledeen as the conduit for the report and indicates that former CIA officers Duane Clarridge and Alan Wolf were the principal forgers. All three had business interests with Chalabi."

Alan Wolf died about a year and a half ago of cancer. He served as chief of the CIA's Near East Division as well as the European Division, and was also CIA chief of station in Rome after Clarridge. According to my source, "he and Clarridge and Ledeen were all very close and also close to Chalabi." The former CIA officer says Wolf "was Clarridge's Agency godfather. Significantly, both Clarridge and Wolf also spent considerable time in the Africa division, so they both had the Africa and Rome connection and both were close to Ledeen, closing the loop."

A veteran of the Iran-Contra scandal, Ledeen played an important role in the Iran-Contra "arms for hostages" scandal by setting up meetings between the American government and the Iranian arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar. Not all that unexpected coming from a self-proclaimed advocate of Machiavelli's amoralism. Today, Ledeen is among the most visible and radical neoconservative ideologues whose passion for a campaign of serial "regime-change" in the Middle East is undiminished by the Iraqi debacle. Just as the Roman senator Cato the Elder finished his perorations with the command "Carthage must be destroyed," so Michael "Creative Destruction" Ledeen closes his hopped-up warmongering essays with "Faster, please!," an exhortation presumably addressed to his confreres in the Bush administration.

Ledeen has kept the neocon faith – and the same friends – for all these years. He's still buddies with Ghorbanifar. In December 2001, he had a meeting in Rome with Ghorbanifar in the company of the Pentagon's top Iran specialist, Larry Franklin, and Harold Rhode, assigned to the Office of Net Assessment, a Pentagon think tank. Also at the Rome conclave: a number of Ghorbanifar's Iranian friends, including a former senior official of the Revolutionary Guard. Rounding out the distinguished guest list, we have the Italian delegation, consisting of SISMI head honcho Nicolo Pollari, the head of Italy's military intelligence agency, and Italian Defense Minister Antonio Martino, a neocon favorite. Once again, Ledeen plays the middleman – but what kind of a deal was he trying to negotiate?

more

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10571.htm


At the beginning of 2001, a few weeks before George Bush took office, there was a break-in at the Niger embassy in Rome. Strangely, nothing of value was taken. Months later came 9/11 and a month after that, as George Bush wondered how to get back at the terrorists, a report from the Italian security service (Sismi) reached the CIA: Iraq was seeking to buy uranium.

Disappointingly for the neocons, the CIA sent Ambassador Joseph Wilson to Niger to check the story: he reported that it was nonsense. When the story was repeated by Bush, Wilson went public. His wife, CIA agent Valerie Plame, was then outed by the White House. Hence Rove's predicament.

An organisation called the Office of Special Plans (OSP) was set up in the Pentagon by Douglas Feith, a former consultant to Israel's Likud party, to prepare for the war. In the words of Robert Baer, a distinguished former CIA man, it was a "competing intelligence shop at the Pentagon"..."if you didn't like the answer you're getting from the CIA". In short, bogus stories would get a second chance at the OSP.

A clue to the ancestry of these black arts can be found in 1980, when right-wing Republicans wanted Ronald Reagan elected. They publicised a story that Billy Carter, the then President Jimmy Carter's colourful brother, had received $50,000 (£28,000) from the Libyan government.

The story was always denied by the President and no evidence of the payment was found, but the story helped to elect Reagan. Its source? Sismi, and an associate of a man called Michael Ledeen.


http://www.antiwar.com/blog/comments.php?id=2426_0_1_0_C

First of all, I am not a leftist. Secondly, the sources for the quotes of former CIA and DIA agent Philip Giraldi were my interviews of him, as indicated in the correctly transcribed entry on the Wikipedia page, and which I provided the mp3 link for. Fourth, I am happy that the US is no longer part of the British Empire.

As far as Ledeen and the Niger uranium forgeries, Giraldi explained in the interviews that the "couple of CIA agents" were paid in foreign accounts and that Fitzgerald had "already found the money trail." Ledeen's connections to the Office of Special Plans and Sismi are well documented, he attended a number of meetings in Italy with Harold Rhode, who "practically lived out of (Iranian spy) Ahmad Chalabi's office," Manucher Ghorbanifar and guilty Israeli spy Larry Franklin, around the time the Italians began passing on the (already debunked) story back to the US.

As Josh Marshall put it in The Hill:

"he intelligence reports that came in to Washington in late 2001 were from Italian military intelligence, SISMI. The other detail, according to intelligence sources I’ve spoken to, is that those reports turned out to be text transcriptions of Niger forgeries that didn’t surface in Rome until almost a year later...

From the very beginning, American suspicions about a Niger-Iraq trade in uranium were based on what turned out to be the forged documents. And the text transcriptions of those documents came in from Italian intelligence...

Burba, the Italian journalist who eventually brought the forgeries to the U.S. Embassy in Rome, got them from an unnamed Italian “security consultant.” His name turns out to be Rocco Martino, a retired SISMI operative. And as I mentioned last week, last summer, my colleagues and I conducted a series of in-person interviews with him.

It has sometimes been suggested in the Italian press that Martino himself is the forger. But he told us a different story — one that was corroborated by another participant in the handling of the documents. Martino told us that the documents came from a still-serving SISMI colonel, whom he named."

But where did they originate? Giraldi's partner, Vincent Cannistraro, Director for Intelligence Programs at the National Security Council under Reagan, has maintained that they were produced in the US and has said, "You'd be very close," in answer to the question of whether Ledeen forged them.

Combined with what Giraldi had to say, it sure seems like enough to take to a grand jury to me.

Or is it not a crime to lie a country into war?

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=7256


July Friday 29th 2005 (05h28) :
KARL ROVE, MICHAEL LEDEEN SPIES PROCURED FORGED NIGER DOCUMENTS


KARL ROVE and VARIOUS SPIES HE IS LINKED TO

Karl Rove’s only full-time foreign-policy advisor is Michael Ledeen, a rabid anti-Arab, pro-Israel activist. The FBI is investigating Ledeen for procuring forged documents (shown here) on nonexistent WMD, which George Bush used to justify his war on Iraq. When Joseph Wilson exposed the farce, Rove helped "out" Wilson’s CIA wife. Did Ledeen procure the documents for Rove, and how might he have done that? The story includes multinational stool pigeon Rocco Martino, Italian spy Francesco Pazienza, wanted CIA spy Robert Seldon Lady, and Pentagon analyst Larry Franklin, who’s under charges of giving US secrets to Israel.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Rove’s foreign-policy advisor, Michael Ledeen, proclaimed "the rightness of the fascist cause" in 1972. In 1984 he got George Bush Sr to appoint Iranian arms merchant and Iranian/Israeli double-agent Manucher Ghorbanifar as a middleman in the scandalous Iran-Contra affair. Ledeen has been a fixture in Washington and Israel ever since, advocating a modern version of the Crusades against Islamic nations. Based on what he has said and written, I believe Ledeen is insane.
Michael Ledeen, Rove’s "brain," is one of the leading advocates for a US attack on Iran. The Washington Post quoted Ledeen as saying that Rove told him, "Anytime you have a good idea, tell me." I guess that means we can look forward to the Bush team drumming up a war with Iran.

George Bush Jr., when he assumed the presidency in 2000, already knew that he was going to settle the family score with Saddam Hussein. His "brain," Rove, quickly enlisted Ledeen to trump up a causus belli.

EARLY 2000: ROCCO MARTINO AND THE FRENCH CONNECTION

...


The war is not just about oil, Israel’s fears/ambitions, or US hegemony. There are contracts and contractors in Iraq. Modern-day carpetbaggers with briefcases descended like a plague of scorpions on the poor, bloodied, bombed-out, grieving people of Iraq. They included the daughter of the war’s chief banshee -- Simone Ledeen, Michael’s young daughter -- shown in the photo, greeting with an impish smile another occupier at the Baghdad airport -- getting ready to lord it over the Iraqis as she tries out her new MBA in working for the CPA. Caption: "The creatures step out of the tripods." Maybe it’ll help to pay off those student loans -- huh, Michael?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/10/19/14555...

Keyser Soze aka Michael Ledeen.

Michael Ledeen was one of the founders of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA). He holds the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a think tank for AIPAC. He is co-founder of the Coalition for Democracy in Iran. As far back as 1980, the CIA allegedly listed Ledeen as an agent of influence of Israel. Ledeen is the main foreign policy advisor to Karl Rove. Ledeens main obsession seems to be to overthrow Iran.

In 1972 he published the book Universal Fascism, in which he expounds upon "the rightness of the fascist cause." In Universal Fascism, Ledeen first builds his case that fascism was the "20th Century Revolution" and that "people yearn for the real thing - revolution". It's the blueprint for a fascist revolution.

In 1980 he collaborated with Francesco Pazienza of SISMI and P-2 in the "BillyGate" affair. This is the same Pazienze who was recently found out to belong to the parallel intelligence agency in Italy. In 1985 Pazienza was found guilty of political manipulation, forgery, and the protection of terrorists. Ledeen is identified in court documents as an agent of SISMI.

The Pentagon downgraded Ledeen's security clearances from Top Secret-SCI to Secret in the mid-1980s, after the FBI began a probe of Ledeen for passing classified materials to a foreign
country, believed to be Israel.


http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/MichaelLedeen.html

"Everything You Need to Know About Michael Ledeen"


chlamor

Member since Sep 04th 2005
322 posts, 7 votes, 13 points, Rate this user
Fri Nov-18-05 11:01 PM
Original Post





April 7, 2005

Everything You Need to Know About Michael Ledeen
By Katherine Yurica

Would you be surprised to find that a man who was deeply involved in the Iran-Contra scandal during the Reagan Administration, a man who is the darling of the Bush White House and is an adviser to Karl Rove, a man who loves Machiavelli and studies him, a neo-conservative who has close ties to one of America’s leading “Christian” Dominionists—Pat Robertson, and a man who called Pearl Harbor “lucky” and a providentially inspired event—may be the man who is behind the forging of the Niger documents that convinced America to launch a preemptive strike against Iraq?

<snip>

It would be foolish for America’s political strategists and congressional leaders to ignore Michael Ledeen and his interpretation of Machiavelli. Mr. Ledeen speaks from the cutting edge of a group of men and women who desire nothing more than to reconstruct America in their own image. This nation is in grave danger. Ledeen belongs to a group of men, including Harry Jaffa, Pat Robertson, Willmoore Kendall to Allan Bloom, who, according to Shadia Drury, scholar and author of Leo Strauss and the American Right, share “the view that America is too liberal and pluralistic and that what it needs is a single orthodoxy that governs the public and private lives of its citizens.”<1>

The belief in a single voice that governs the public should cause all Americans to understand these men want to convert this nation to a permanent dictatorship. Their inspirer was Leo Strauss, a professor who taught Machiavellian methods to many of them at the University of Chicago. In fact, Paul Wolfovitz earned his doctorate under Strauss and many of the neo-cons in the White House studied under him. Strauss believed every society needs a “single public orthodoxy.” As Drury put it, “a set of ideas that defines what is true and false, right and wrong, noble and base.” Strauss believed that the role of religion was indispensable to the political success of a nation. For a political society had to hold together and act as a unit in lock step with the leader. Strauss believed that religion was the means to inculcate the desired ideas into the minds of the masses. He didn’t care what religion—just as long as it was a religion that could link itself to the political order.




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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #120
122. It definitely points to Berceloni and a secret world organization
and has tentacles close to the Vatican in its location ...

Its intiquing on how our government was involved with them and it provided these papers as proof for the war...

all a set up!!!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #122
145.  Niger uranium forgery cover-up unravels
Edited on Mon Dec-05-05 09:52 AM by seemslikeadream
December 5, 2005


The War Party certainly has its party line down pat. In response to allegations that he had deliberately misinformed the Americans about Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction" and alleged links to al-Qaeda, Ahmed Chalabi recently declared:

"The fact that I misled the U.S. is an urban myth."

The same phrase popped up when an aide to Vice President Dick Cheney denied that his boss was the recipient of bogus "intelligence" in the run-up to war, or is in any way beholden to the neocons:

"'That's an urban myth,' said this aide, who declined to be identified."

This is a longtime favorite theme song sung by government officials who would rather not even discuss an inconvenient issue, and it often works, but not so well these days. The stench of fraud – and worse – is rising over Washington so that the whole city seems permeated by a permanent miasma, a poisonous cloud so thick that denials seem to stick in the throat even before they are uttered. A majority of Americans believe this administration lied them into war, and the parents of our fallen soldiers remember that as they mourn. What must they be thinking? The voters, too, will remember – and our newly awakened mainstream media is unlikely to let them forget.

Amid all the lies – the nuclear centrifuges that didn't exist, the links to 9/11 that were strongly implied but never proven and later denied – one in particular stands out: the by now famous "16 words" that crept into the president's 2003 State of the Union address, in which he stated that Saddam was trying to procure uranium from "an African nation" as a preliminary step toward creating a nuclear weapon.

This falsehood leaps out at one in its brazenness, to begin with, because it was based on a cache of forged documents: not mistaken intelligence, but a deliberate attempt to deceive. Secondly, these documents fell into the hands of the U.S. government under highly suspicious circumstances and arrived in Washington – and found their way into the president's crucially important speech – via a circuitous and highly suspect route.

Furthermore, distinguishing itself from the many tall tales spun by Chalabi, and dressed up to look half credible by the neocons, this particular one takes on special importance because it stands at the center of a scandal that already threatens the War Party at its very core: the burgeoning investigation by special counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald into top officials in this administration, including but not limited to I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #120
148. Kick for the data dump
You should be working for the fbi!
:yourock:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #148
150. Shhhhhhhhhh!
DemonFighterLives check out this link

http://eclectech.co.uk/messagefestive.php?i=jW

Move your mouse over the festive pants messenger to collect your message

:hi:


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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #150
151. Alright!
:rofl:
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. Ya done took the words right outa my mouth
What a despicable maneuverer; I'd be VERY surprised if he didn't either orchestrate it, have a hand it it or know who did.
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Soylent Green Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
101. I think that is very likely
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 01:32 AM by Soylent Green
(Hello D.U.ers- I was a previous contributer but got a new account)

If it sounds like a duck, and looks like a duck.... as they say. The WHIG group criminal behavior has a pattern, as is seen in serial cases. Their fingerprints are all over it. It may be part of the 'perfect storm' ushered in by Katrina- all the stories of media 'prostitutes' (I'll be nice here!) are coming to the surface like a boil. Time to lance the boil: J. Miller, Bob Woodward, Renin (sp?), Iraqi news pay-per-view, and now forged documents that land in an Italian Journalist hands...to be printed in a paper that's owned by a big * supporter. The proverbial rats running away from the ship may not help us much but at least those rats are no longer providing the engine and energy to make the ship run. So if the glove fits...
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freeplessinseattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. this part really perked me up:
Federal officials familiar with the case say investigators could examine whether the forgeries were instigated by U.S. citizens who advocated an invasion of Iraq or by members of the Iraqi National Congress — the group led by Ahmad Chalabi that worked closely with Bush administration officials in the buildup to the war.

<snip>

Until now, the FBI's inquiry had been limited to probing whether foreign governments were involved in the forgeries, despite a broader request from Rockefeller that the FBI look into whether the forgeries reflected a "larger deception campaign aimed at manipulating public opinion and foreign policy regarding Iraq."

<snip>

Citing concern that the forged Niger documents might be evidence of a "larger deception campaign," Rockefeller initially had requested that the FBI determine the source of the forgeries and why the intelligence community did not realize earlier that the documents were fraudulent, among other questions.

A senior FBI official said the bureau's initial investigation found no evidence of foreign government involvement in the forgeries. But the FBI did not interview Martino, a central figure in a parallel drama unfolding in Rome.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. whow---but hope the WH somehow does not get to them!!


,,,,,Federal officials familiar with the case say investigators could examine whether the forgeries were instigated by U.S. citizens who advocated an invasion of Iraq or by members of the Iraqi National Congress — the group led by Ahmad Chalabi that worked closely with Bush administration officials in the buildup to the war.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. the word 'could' is in this sentence!


...Federal officials familiar with the case say investigators could examine whether the forgeries were instigated by U.S. citizens who advocated an invasion of Iraq or by members of the Iraqi National Congress — the group led by Ahmad Chalabi that worked closely with Bush administration officials in the buildup to the war.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
34. "US Citizens" advising the pentagon, cheney and rove
That would be Ledeen for sure. I would love to see him rot in jail.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. Definitely K&R
And it deserves a few of these!
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
49. Is this what's making Mama Bush so ticked at Darth Vader, et al?
Not the crime, but the "sloppiness", trace-ability of it.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
10. Those Documents Terrorized the American People!!
It's just that simple. I know it may sound hyperbolic, but saying anything short of that is just euphemizing.

What they did was no different than calling in a bomb threat.

Anyone who even "looked the other way" while this was done is part of the conspiracy to commit The Most Heinous Act of Terrorism in History.

Anything 20 guys with boxcutters, or even a "dirty bomb," could do pales in comparison to "mushroom clouds ... in 45 minutes."

And I don't think the FBI is suddenly "concerned about their image." What has them moving is the likelihood of the Dems taking back the House soon -- with that pesky subpoena power. (And the possibility that some Dems are tired of being the butt of the GOP joke -- "Gosh, for a minute there I thought they might actually DO something.")

We need to keep demanding full prosecutions and punishment for all of the crimes of the past 5 years. Even if the perps have "left government," or "retired," or "suffered public humiliation," or "were punished at the ballot box."

No more euphemistic rationalizations.

It is THE ONLY way to fight fascism(1) (or neofascism, or creeping fascism, or the whiff of fascism), which is exactly what the PNACons are all about.

---
www.january6th.org


(1)
Fascism -- monarchism -- theocracy -- it's all the same thing.

A belief that a minority has the right to rule a majority*. It matters little if it's a master race, a theocracy, a family dynasty, a ruling class, or the current DC/Euphemedia Analstocracy.

This is what the stolen election of 2000 was all about. There was zero attention paid to the Will of the People of Florida and the nation. The result of the vote (not the vote count**) was well known shortly after the election when the uncounted ballots were extrapolated by precinct, and Gore won FL by tens of thousands. Any ethical, moral, real American would have conceded to Gore at that point.

(Note: It is at this point that many of you have been trained by fascist propaganda to think "electoral college" and that somehow some quirk in the system makes what was perpetrated legal or constitutional or something not as disturbing as the truth.)

The contract generally known as the US Constitution was put into breach on January 6th, 2001.

It was this overruling of the will of the (former) American People that left us open to the 9-11 attack, Which was a far less important event compared with the election theft. It simply allowed the 21st Century Neo-Fascists to have their "Reichstag fire" to consolitdate control.

The more important part was that the only global force for good in the past several decades, the public opinion of the American People, was taken out of the equation. Which is why prior to the election theft we could stop plane-crashing over the Pacific at the Millenium with help from Jordanian Intelligence, and after... well, not so much. We had lost our moral ascendency, our place as the court of last resort.

Certainly this is a "kinder, gentler" fascism. But did you expect goose-stepping and racial hate speech? It's much more efficient to simply scream "Mushroom clouds in 45 minutes!!" in order to terrorize a population into compliance (20 guys with boxcutters pales in comparision, doesn't it?).

But make no mistake, it is fascism pure and simple.

_________
*"After Socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society" - Benito Mussolini 1932

**"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decided everything." -- Josef Stalin (echoed by Pol Pot, Bushes, Scalia, Rehnquist, etc...)


-
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Soylent Green Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
102. I Agree
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 01:38 AM by Soylent Green
and won't rest until Justice is served. If yelling out 'fire' in crowd is a crime when there is no fire, this is that magnified infinitely.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. possible scenarios
1. the bushies "forged" the documents and sent them through a pipeline

2. the bushies KNEW the documents were forged and used them anyways

3. the bushies SUSPECTED the documents were bogus and used them anyways

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Peachhead22 Donating Member (798 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
15. Something that always set off my B.S. detector
From the L.A. Times article:
"The FBI's decision to reopen the investigation reverses the agency's announcement last month that it had finished a two-year inquiry and concluded that the forgeries were part of a moneymaking scheme — and not an effort to manipulate U.S. foreign policy"

Now, if you're a criminal scheming to commit a crime to get money, would'nt you steal...um, money? Or at least something that could be easier to convert into large sums of money. Or if your talent is forging and you were going to forge something to make money, wouldn't you forge some celebrity's signature or like a historical document or something? Something you could easily sell to a museum or collector for a much more sure higher price? Or would you break into a country's embassy to get the letterhead and seal to create a forgery you hope you can get somebody in the U.S government to buy from you? Who says the U.S gov't would buy it? They could ignore it or confiscate it and the forger is SOL. Who says the U.S. gov't is gonna pay enough for the forgeries to even cover the forgers expenses? Plus, to even bother, the forger had to already have a way past U.S. gov't bs detectors to even have the slightest hope of getting anything for such amatuer forgeries.
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Barad Simith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. But the forgeries WERE part of a moneymaking scheme!
Why else did the White House Iraq Group want to go to war? It's always been about money with that crowd.
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #16
35. Exactly !
The whole war was a smokescreen for George and pals to divert the then-budget-surplus and whatever else they could get out of the National Treasury over to their boys at Halliburton, Blackwater, Lockheed-Martin, etc etc etc ...
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
63. remember, "Iraq oil will pay for the war" and other lies, while BushCo
& Associates get the rest.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
81. Yep, me too.
It just is a little hard to believe that a person who was so dumb as to produce such bad forgeries would be smart enough to be able to fool the sophisticated intelligence experts who accepted the documents as valid, isn't it?

Here is an exhaustive discussion of the issue, from the blogger whose work was used as a reference by the journalists at La Repubblica (who in turn brought the story to international attention). The blogger's name is eriposte, who blogs at theleftcoaster:
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/005211.php
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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
18. Stuff like this makes me think we might still have a chance
to save this unconscious republic.
Bama
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. yes yes yes
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
19. it's beginning to look alot like Fitzmas - K&R
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
20. Kicked and nominated! This is great news!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. the fbi's first explanation was so silly that they had no choice.


But President Bush referred to the claim in his 2003 State of the Union address in making the case for the invasion. Bush's speech, Wilson's trip and the role Wilson's wife played in sending him have created a political storm that still envelops the White House.

The documents in question included letters on Niger government letterhead and purported contracts showing sales of uranium to Iraq. They were provided in 2002 to an Italian magazine, which turned them over to the U.S. Embassy in Rome.

The FBI's decision to reopen the investigation reverses the agency's announcement last month that it had finished a two-year inquiry and concluded that the forgeries were part of a moneymaking scheme — and not an effort to manipulate U.S. foreign policy.

Those findings concerned some members of the Senate Intelligence Committee after published reports that the FBI had not interviewed a former Italian spy named Rocco Martino, who was identified as the original source of the documents. The committee had requested the initial investigation.......
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wishlist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Outrageously lame excuse for prematurely closing out the investigation
Using the fact that money changed hands as a reason to conclude no underlying motive involved is rididulous. That would be like dismissing the 911 hijackings as just a moneymaking venture since the Atta was bankrolled.
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
33. Well, as someone else said, it WAS part of a moneymaking scheme
The Scheme: invade Iraq to plunder both Iraq and the U.S. Treasury.

The Method: Create phony documents "showing" that Iraq was going to buy uranium from Niger to make nuclear weapons, then tell this "fact" to the American people to scare them shitless so they would be glad when we invaded Iraq.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
23. nominated
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
26. WTF was this case ever closed for in the first place?
Was if because junior ordered it closed to his FBI butt buddies? Here the whole nation is waiting for Fitzgerald's investigation to be revealed. Tis becoming obvious junior is doing everything he can to stop anything investigation into his dealing of the Plame case or Jack Abramoff investigation. Like firing Black for the Guam thingy.

"I was surprised that the FBI ever closed it without coming to a conclusion as to the source," said former Sen. Bob Graham (D-Fla.), who was chairman of the Intelligence Committee when the Niger uranium claims first surfaced in the U.S. "It looks as if it's a fairly straightforward investigation trail to who the source was. And I'm glad the FBI has resumed the hunt."



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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
58. Same MO as with Black--shut down the investigation.
Bush is losing control of "his" FBI.

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. happydreams as in this nation is in a deep deep sleep as if
it were smoking the opium pipe.

I remember the time I got trapped in an opium den in Asia. Came out three days later broke, not because I smoked away all my dough, because I got flat ass robbed while floating on that pink cloud. I remember the cook in the den after he sold me three hits for a buck and a half. He said "happydreams"

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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
27. They could have asked Chalabi what he knew
while he was inside the beltway being entertained by Rice and other Cheney 'aides' just a little while ago...
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
28. Hmmm - does this go full circle back to the Italian journalist
nearly killed on the road to the Baghdad airport?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. recall the Italian gov. has tried to shut this case also.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #28
41. The Italian intelligence agent WAS killed and some thought he was the
actual target. Was he holding some info?
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #41
64. Brits chief WMD expert also dead---see message #50
"(Note: The WMD-planting theory of Traitorgate is that there are signs of panic and rush in the Bushites' outing Plame--for instance, they called at least SIX journalists in the week of July 7-14, to find a patsy reporter to out her--and then, four days later, outed the entire CIA WMD-counter-proliferation project, Brewster-Jennings--overkill, if the motive was just to punish Wilson for his article. This panic was caused by something other than Wilson's article, that happened at almost the same time. The article was published July 6, 2003. On July 7, Tony Blair was informed that the Brits' chief WMD expert, Dr. David Kelly, who had been whistleblowing to the BBC (late May 2003) about the exaggerated pre-war WMD intelligence, "could say some uncomfortable things" (could say, not HAD said). If what Kelly knew over and above the "sexed up" pre-war intel (what he "could say" had to do with the WMD-planting plot, that could have been the source of the Bushites fear and panic about Plame--it was fear that their deceptive WMD-planting scheme and its foiling would be exposed. Plame was outed July 14. Kelly was found dead July 18. His office and computers were searched. Four days later, on July 22, Brewster-Jennings was also outed. "

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Oceansaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
36. Wowser.......
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
37. You know I love you ALL, but please.......
understand that when this government does anything that looks responsible, it is for only one reason, to cover-up something more incriminating, or to generate a sanitized and spun version of events and get their bullshit story out first.

Secondly, when we all realize this will we be able to get out of this ridiculous cycle of hope and despair. We are on a fucking yo-yo people. "They" are playing all of us with great ease.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. My first thought,
the FBI reopening investigation saying, however, won't turn up anything different---already setting us up. Who is in charge of the FBI--a damned Bush crony.

I hope the Dems, though, do their own independent investigation and cry BS if this is a "cover-up" operation. We cannot let these assholes get away with hiding the truth from "the people." After all government IS "the people."
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. It's possible that you are right..
.... but maybe not. This country has been led in an unfortunate direction by literally a handful of people who were able to convince the masses.

There was a time when people who might have had better sense went along, assuming those leading the way were knowledgable and honorable.

Now, that's all changed. Not only does the great unwashed realize that Bush is a joke of tragic proportions, lots of mid level people in government, the CIA, the FBI, every agency - just might see that also.

They might feel a little stupid that they were dragged into this debacle. They might be looking to redeem themselves.

One can hope.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. I'm going to encourage you to read the complete article
that is linked. If you get a chance to read it, I welcome our thoughts.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0512/S00022.htm

(posted by Althecat in this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x55051390
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #44
72. I read about a third of this...
... and while I think the gentleman makes some interesting points, I cannot buy his overriding theory because it details a vast conspiracy and that would be impossible to maintain.

Have you ever worked in a company, or on a project with other people, who ostensibly all had the same goal? Ever seen things just go to hell over "personality clashes" and the like. The amount of human discipline that would be required in this guy's scenario doesn't exist.

You can't get hundreds of people to agree on anything. And a bunch of boobs who can't find their own asses with both hands are especially unable to pull off something like this.

Here is my 2 cent theory. The "elites" (and I do not dispute that there are behind the scenes folks with an agenda and the power to get some of it put into effect) wanted this war for any number of reasons.

In Bush**, they found the perfect foil. They knew the war wouldn't accomplish any of its stated goals, and they didn't care. Their needs were satisfied by launching the war then, and keeping it going as long as possible now.

Now that the war is a disaster, all of the machinations you see are the result of everyone involved trying to cover their asses and distance themselves from it. And for others, the true believers like Bush and his inner circle, to try to salvage some kind of success. If effect, these people are now playing "double or nothing" with our troops. Of course, it will be nothing.

In short, I just don't believe in a "wizard of oz" who controls the press, the CIA, the State Dept, the congress and the executive.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #72
89. The main "conspiracy" we need to worry about is PNAC....

the goal was to get a foothold in Iraq and establish military bases, which they have done. The next goal seems to be Iran, heard from various sources. If they are trying to follow a trail of uranium to get there, this may be a key stumbling point.
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BadgerKid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #72
97. like the Iraqi "intelligence" reports
Ever seen things just go to hell over "personality clashes" and the like. ... You can't get hundreds of people to agree on anything.

One solution to this problem is to share information with a select few. I think it played out in the administration sharing the Iraqi "intelligence" reports with select congressional members.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #97
106. Yes but...
... you either have to let all these people in on the real story or you have to fool them all. It's just not possible.

I'm not saying that there isn't a "grain" of truth to what this guy is saying, I'm just saying that I'll never buy into large-scale conspiracies, i.e. the whole freaking press in under control, because I've lived too long and paid attention to human nature while I was living.
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ldf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #106
124. the whole freaking press in under control
i don't think it is that, as much as it is "the whole freaking press (internet excepted) is bought and paid for". MY quote, and not in the least original.

look at who owns the press. jack welch, former ceo of nbc, who was instrumental in "giving" the 2000 election to bush, publicly stated on camera that the "news" networks should be able to publicize stories that help "their" (news networks, owners of news networks) bottom lines. that opened the floodgates of news agencies selling out their obligation to inform the people of All the news, all to increase their profit margin.

share holders of the corporations that own the news networks don't give a shit about the affect it has on the nation, as long as they receive a substantial dividend. (that is another part of the problem, but deserves it's own thread.)

faux is obviously the worst offender, openly pushing whatever spews out of bush's mouth as the best thing since sliced bread or manna from heaven, and supporting whatever treasonous act he and his cabal promote.

faux news, headed by cousin/nephew/some relative of bush, was the FIRST to call the 2000 florida vote, therefore the election, for bush. remember the famous phone call bush made to bush?

viacom, owner of cbs has been cowed, and the new head is openly pursuing how to "toe the line".

disney seems to have gone the profit route, while under eisner.

whether it is publishing stories that promote their cause, or giving large amounts of campaign donations to the politicians that will vote in their favor (to get relaxed regulations of the media, therefore allowing larger influence in single markets, thereby further increasing the network revenues), they are STILL bought and paid for.

if the person who signs your paycheck says jump, you jump. and if none of the journalists can get their bosses to allow the stories, no one prints it, therefore it remains unknown to the great unwashed masses.

mission accomplished.

for the record, just my humble opinion.
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #44
77. I like people to be skeptical but this scoop article
Edited on Sat Dec-03-05 05:14 PM by happydreams
makes some serious, and I believe false, assumptions about the Intelligence Community. Here is a snip

Yet somehow the intelligence bureaucracy, (it seems, we are being told) is different; it appears as if the CIA and co. was trying to tell the truth about the WMD/yellowcake claims, but were somehow manipulated or prevented from doing their job.

But wait: of all the elements within the military-industrial-complex, is not the intelligence bureaucracy among the most firmly committed to the manufacture of war -and the lies necessary to achieve it? Have not its agents consistently proven themselves to be the bastions of deception and intrigue?

The "Valerie Plame indictment" is unravelling within the context of an assertion that the intelligence community is an entity standing somewhat at odds or even independent of the political games going on in Washington.

Is this true?

Were the analysts prevented from doing their job?

Or does "the company" merely want it to appear that way?



The author is assuming that the CIA is a monolithic beast with everybody walking in lockstep. Nothing could be further from the truth. There have always been divisions within the CIA and they have become more glaring in recent times in the Intelligence Community in general. The authors failure to see this renders the rest of the article moot.
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #77
116. Read the Spy Novel Shibumi by Trevelyan - I "borrowed" his name
but he is really a Texas professor who in the 1970s was writing about the "Mother Company" much more powerful than the CIA and also goes into Peak Oil which was rarely spoken of at that time.

So much of what I have read in the past few months sounds like Shibumi.
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Boneman Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #37
48. Exactly. Good post. My guess is that Cheney was pushing for the
investigation so he can enter a spin, to exonerate himself. May actually work.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #37
71. Yes, this is suspicious, considering the timing of it.
Senate hearings on pre-war intelligence will begin when they resume the session. Now everyone connected can refuse to comment on an ongoing investigation. There seems to be a pattern developing here.
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #71
119. I was unaware of this until recently someone posted USS Liberty info
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-moorer.html

==The USS Liberty

War Crimes Committed Against U.S. Military Personnel, June 8, 1967
USS Liberty Veterans Association - On June 8, 1967 while patrolling in international waters in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, USS Liberty was savagely attacked without warning or justification by air and naval forces of the state of Israel. Of a crew of 294 officers and men (including three civilians), the ship suffered thirty four (34) killed in action and one hundred seventy three (173) wounded in action. The ship itself, a Forty Million ($40,000,000) Dollar state of the art signals intelligence (SIGINT) platform, was so badly damaged that it never sailed on an operational mission again and was sold in 1970 for $101,666.66 as scrap. more

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ussliberty.html

Letter from a Liberty Widow
I am the wife of James Mahlon Lupton, CT1, who was killed aboard the USS Liberty when it was attacked by Israel on June 8, 1967. He was right where the torpedo hit. more

=Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.

Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot’s radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.

=USS Liberty
A fair probe would attack Liberty misinformation
Adm. Thomas Moorer was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from 1970 to 1974 and once was 7th Fleet commander. He was joined in the Independent Commission of Inquiry by Rear Adm. Merlin Staring, former judge advocate general of the Navy; and Ambassador James Akins, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia. Gen. Ray Davis, former assistant commandant of the Marine Corps, was a member of the commission at the time of his death in September. He passed away only a few weeks after the publication of this article on February 5, 2004.

VERY ANGRY ARTICLE BY THE ADMIRAL ON THE COVER-UP OF THE UNPROVOKED ATTACK BY ISRAEL - How is it possible that so many Americans don't know about this first large scale attack on American military personnel by Israel. I was pro-Israel until went on the Internet and started reading about the Dancing Israelis on 911 who were released by the FBI and the banning of a member on Smirking Chimp because the day after the London bombings and the warning at the last minute from Israel was so suspicious kept posting sites to Israeli false flag operations and MOSSAD - the Israeli CIA known for it's brutal torture and murder. Even the liberal sites are afraid to mention MOSSAD.

http://www.SeventhFire.com/ has a book online about MOSSAD, scroll down for the political information.

By Admiral Thomas Moorer
Stars and Stripes
January 16, 2004

BETHESDA, Md.—While state department officials and historians converge on Washington this week to discuss the 1967 war in the Middle East, I am compelled to speak out about one of U.S. history’s most shocking cover-ups....
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
39. Will this lead to the core group?


Like to think so but more likely it will stay on the surface.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
40. Now that they've been embarrassed to death over this.
I don't have a whole lot of confidence in the FBI, though. Sibel pointed out their shenanigans and they did nothing to try to fix their own department. So, this is probably just a weak effort on their part.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
46. Early morning kick
:kick:
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
47. FBI? If they are re-opening it, it's only to bury it deeper. They have
already publicly stated they don't expect a different conclusion.

How often has the FBI buried things for the Bush Crime Syndicate? They were their chief little helpers with 9-11, why on earth would they want this exposed?
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #47
60. It's the Senate forcing the FBI to do its job. I thought the same thing
you're thinking here until I read who was behind the re-opening of the case: The Senate Intelligence Committee.

The FBI is no longer under Bush's thumb.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
82. appalling
Edited on Sat Dec-03-05 06:19 PM by Rich Hunt
I question the motives of anyone who implicates the FBI with regard to 9/11. These are probably the same people who defame the firemen on the 9/11 board.

Some of us more sophisticated folk know LOTS about the reich wing's utter contempt for the bureau. Corporate criminals and other corrupt types have their spin whores out all over the place trying to tear their most hated enemy down.

But if you like serial murder, corporate crime and corruption, you're welcome to it!
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MellowOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
52. forged documents....just one more piece of the plan
To fix the facts to support a war. Bush wanted this war before he went into office. So convenient that 9/11 happened, makes for real good war fixin'.
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
54. About fricking time!
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
55. Holy clusterfaack!!!
If Chalabi did it then who did he coordinate it with at White House? How and who at US end recieved the tip?

These fascists should drown in an avalanche of investigations if nothing else.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
57. Excellent news!
Thanks for the post. K&R. The NeoCon crimes (hopefully) continue to come to light. Here's hoping this investigation is conducted correctly and that the spotlight shines on Ledeen, the OSP, and the rest of the cabal.
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
59. Jeeeeez, the shutting down of the investigation warrants an
investigation. If Bush could be linked to that action then it will start to look alot like the Abrahmoff scandal, which is looking alot like Nixon firing Archibald Cox.
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #59
121. A Coverup That Won’t Stay Covered (FBI, Just One Example)
http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts20.html
A Coverup That Won’t Stay Covered by Paul Craig Roberts

CNN recently reported that "the Justice Department is re-examining its investigation into the 1995 death of a federal prisoner that the victim’s family alleges was murder at the hands of the government."

The victim was Kenneth Michael Trentadue.

At 7 AM on August 21, 1995, officials from the Oklahoma Medical Examiner’s office arrived at the new Oklahoma City Federal Transfer Center for the body of a man recently picked up for parole violation who allegedly was a suicide by hanging. The astonished state officials saw a body with scalp split to the skull in three places, throat slashed, and a body completely covered in blood,
bruises and burns.

As law requires, the officials asked to see the cell in which the alleged suicide occurred. Federal officials pulled rank and refused on the grounds that a federal investigation was underway.

A federal investigation was not underway.

The state officials told the prison officials that the body’s condition required FBI notice and protection of the cell as an undisturbed crime scene. Associate Warden Max Flowers, however,
ordered the cell to be cleaned before any investigation could be done. Flowers claimed that medical staff informed him that Trentadue was HIV-positive and that it was urgent to remove the infectious
blood.

Trentadue was not HIV-positive.

Dr. Fred B. Jordan, the Chief Medical Examiner of the state of Oklahoma, was stunned at the destruction of evidence by federal authorities and at the way federal officials blocked his office from
carrying out required duties. In a memo to the file dated December 20, 1995, Dr. Jordan described his frustration over being stonewalled by top Department of Justice officials in Washington. He recorded that he confided to the Assistant U.S. Attorney in Oklahoma City that "I felt Mr. Trentadue had been abused and tortured."

Two years later Dr. Jordan said on a Fox News Interview (July 3, 1997):

"I think it’s very likely he was murdered. I’m not able to prove it. I have temporarily classified the death as undetermined. You see a body covered with blood, removed from the room as Mr. Trentadue was, soaked in blood, covered with bruises, and you try to gain access to the scene and the government of the United States says no, you can’t.

"They continued to prohibit us from having access to the scene of his death, which is unheard of, until about five months later. When we went in and luminoled, it lit up like a candle because blood was still present on the walls of the room after four or five months. But at that point we have no crime scene, so there are still questions about the death of Kenneth Trentadue that will never be answered because of the actions of the U.S. government."

Dr. Jordan’s effort to do his job brought him under great pressure and harassment from federal authorities. Realizing his peril, on August 25, 1997, Dr. Jordan wrote to IRS Commissioner Margaret Richardson: "The requirements of my job as chief Medical Examiner for the State of Oklahoma are currently bringing me into an uncomfortable juxtaposition with the United States Department of Justice. In order to protect myself from retribution, I would like information as to how to request a protective audit from your agency. By this, I simply mean a standard audit in order to avoid having your agency used to harass me as I proceed with my inquiries into a death that directly relates to the Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City."

In a hand written memo to his file dated October 22, 1997, of a telephone conversation with U.S. Senator Byron Dorgan (D, ND), Dr. Jordan recorded: "confirmed my feelings that the investigation
was crippled, the decedent was at the least beaten, we haven’t found the truth and probably won’t, reiterated my lack of trust in the Fed. gov’t and the Dept of Justice in particular."

Unable to secure from Dr. Jordan a ruling that Trentadue’s injuries were self-inflicted, the DOJ sought the cooperation of Dr. Bill Gormley, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology. Dr. Gormley came
to the same conclusion as Dr. Jordan and came under the same pressures. In a memo to file dated May 30, 1997, Kevin Rowland, Chief Investigator in the Oklahoma Medical Examiner’s Office records a telephone call he had from Dr. Gormley: "The basic purposes for his call was to 1-find out what they are up to because he was very suspicious, and 2-ask if I might be able to explain why they only wanted certain testimony from him, since he told them that we had already given them the truth. He was troubled that they only seemed interested in him saying it might be possible these injuries are self-inflicted."

Senator Orrin Hatch (R, UT) threatened the DOJ with Senate Judiciary Hearings on the case. However, FBI documents (Dec. 5, 1997 and Jan. 28, 1998) indicate that FBI agents succeeded in pulling the wool over the eyes of Senator Don Nickles (R, OK) and using him to prevent Hatch’s investigation.

Federal harassment of, and accusations against, Dr. Jordan built to the point that on March 12, 1998, the Assistant Attorney General of Oklahoma, Patrick T. Crawley, wrote to the US Department of
Justice:

"The real tragedy in this case appears to be the perversion of law through chicanery and the misuse of public trust under the guise of some aberrant form of federalism. In a succession of either illegal, negligent, or just plain stupid acts, your clients succeeded in derailing the medical examiner’s investigation and, thereby, may have obstructed justice in this case. As more and more information is revealed in this case, primarily through the efforts of Jesse Trentadue , it appears that your clients, and perhaps others within the Department of Justice, have been abusing the powers of their respective offices. If this is true, all Americans should be very frightened of your clients and the DOJ."

Despite the protection of the Oklahoma Attorney General, sufficient pressure was brought against Dr. Jordan to cause him to abandon his position. On November 28, 2000, at the civil trial brought by Jesse Trentadue against the United States, Dr. Jordan was asked: "You didn’t find any evidence of beating or torture, did you?" He answered: "No, there is no evidence to substantiate beating or
torture."

Despite Dr. Jordan’s changed testimony, the presiding federal judge in the Trentadue civil suit saw enough evidence that much was amiss to award the Trentadue family $1.1 million for suffering harassment and intentional infliction of emotional distress by the federal government. But as all evidence of homicide in the case was destroyed, whether intentionally or negligently, or withheld by the DOJ, the charge of murder could not be proven.

Whatever the deal with the DOJ, apparently it only covered Dr. Jordan’s testimony in the Trentadue civil trial. Two years later on December 11, 2002, under oath in a subsequent deposition in a libel case brought by a FBI agent against a magazine that covered the story, Dr. Jordan said: "Because of the extensive bruising of the body, the cut throat, and the general appearance of the body, we felt that the death should be investigated as a homicide." In answer to a question whether he was harassed by the federal government, Dr. Jordan answered: "I don’t think there’s any question I was harassed by the Department of Justice from the very beginning of this, the 21st of August when we were denied access to do a job we’d been summoned to do."

A believer in the system, Jesse Trentadue has not given up. He has brought a Freedom of Information Act suit against the DOJ. Trentadue’s suit, rather than a rediscovery of integrity by the DOJ, probably explains the recent CNN report that the DOJ is reopening the case. By reopening a criminal investigation, the DOJ does not have to release the documents demanded by Trentadue’s civil suit.

It has always been a puzzle why a man picked up on a parole violation would be murdered in his cell by federal agents. Recently an explanation has turned up. Kenneth Trentadue might have been a victim of mistaken identity. Misidentified as the missing John Doe, Tim McVeigh’s alleged accomplice in the Oklahoma City bombing, he might have been beaten and tortured in an effort to obtain a confession. The autopsy report shows Trentadue with a highly elevated caffeine level, amounts certainly not available to a person held in isolation.

High doses of caffeine are used to increase pain under torture.

What committee in Congress oversees and funds the FBI?
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
66. Fitz probably found something in his look at it.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
67. What a trip - and Porter Goss couldn't squash this?!!
you really get the feeling that Bush is going to be heading back to Crawford...P-E-R-M-A-N-T-E-L-Y...! If Dems win the house and/or senate back Bush may be impeached -- what is it? Crimes of high treason?!

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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
68. Kick!
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
69. A kick of gratitude to eriposte at theleftcoaster.com and
to nur al-cubicle's blog and to La Repubblica and to Josh Marshall at talkingpointsmemo and to Laura Rozen at War and Piece and to all the many DUers who helped keep this story alive. It WORKED!
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
70. Rove, Leeden, Franklin, Italians etc.
Who else in the US government was involved in the forgeries? Tony Blair certainly used it for the dossier?
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=7256

I think the answer is going to be that wasn't acting in behalf of any government or intelligence agency. This guy was trying to peddle this to whoever he could."
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #70
93. You apparently missed a very important part: the forgeries were DOCTORED.
They were changed, quite a while after they were created by Martino, and the changed information was what got into the SOTU speech. Forgeries are one thing, but for someone apparently in the Italian government to have CHANGED them, upon realizing that they were such bad forgeries that they would have been easily discovered as such, indicates malice aforethought of someone in the Italian intelligence community (probably, unless there is some new revelation). So the question becomes, who had the clout and connections to GET someone in the Italian intelligence community to make the changes and WHY?

It's so convoluted and complicated that it may be no wonder that the story didn't have legs. But apparently, someone at the FBI, or, more accurately, in Congress, realized that the "done for economic gain" explanation had some very serious flaws.
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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
73. Excellent news
Karl Rove, Michael Ledeen and Stephen Hadley are all going to get caught up in this.

The boils on this sick administration are oozing out everywhere. Drain the boils!

Sonia
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
79. Another (joyful) kick.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
80. Is the LA Times resisting the RW take over? Several hi profile stories.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
87. bttft
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CdnObserver Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
88. KICK! n/t
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Ouabache Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
91. JAIL for LEDEEN
with some lifers who think he is 'cute'.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
92. Another kick (I've got my tinfoil hat on, folks.)
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
94. Don't forget the inescapable charge against Bush
Edited on Sat Dec-03-05 10:48 PM by gulliver
Why in HELL did documents cited by the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES ... in the PRESIDENT's STATE OF THE UNION address ... concerning NUCLEAR WEAPONS ... in a matter of WAR .....

... PROVE ... TO BE ... CRUDE FUCKING FORGERIES???

Really. How in the hell does that happen? How can that ever happen? Is that the Republican idea of good presidentin'?

If there ends up being no proof that the Niger documents were forged to manipulate U.S. intelligence, it is vital that we remember that it doesn't exonerate the Bush Administration for relying so profoundly on documents that the IAEA was able to easily show were forgeries.

It was a presidency-sized travesty, deserving by itself of historic shame.

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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #94
115. presidentin is hard work n/t
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
99. Whitewash on the way, I think
It is revealing, though, that they feel the need to placate the public by pretending to investigate the issue.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
100. People, the purpose of this is to try to BURY THIS ISSUE - the finding is
already being telegraphed: that the forger acted by himself and that there was no conspiracy, no attempt to manipulate intelligence to promote war.

Just a single bad apple, a forger looking for a buck.

Take off the rose-colored glasses and read:

But the senior federal official said, "I don't expect the results to be any different. I think the answer is going to be that wasn't acting in behalf of any government or intelligence agency. This guy was trying to peddle this to whoever he could."

Until now, the FBI's inquiry had been limited to probing whether foreign governments were involved in the forgeries, despite a broader request from Rockefeller that the FBI look into whether the forgeries reflected a "larger deception campaign aimed at manipulating public opinion and foreign policy regarding Iraq."

(snip)

A senior FBI official said the bureau's initial investigation found no evidence of foreign government involvement in the forgeries. But the FBI did not interview Martino, a central figure in a parallel drama unfolding in Rome.


At first they relied on the whole forgery question simply disappearing with the help of the compliant press. But now they have to at least go through the motions of a FBI investigation - but don't forget who holds the FBI leash. This is not going to be an independent investigation like Fitzgerald's. This is going to be another attempt to manufacture a cover story that the press will go with: "nothing here, just one bad apple acting alone, no conspiracy, move along."

Surely it's a clue when the FBI never bothered to interview Martino and administration leakers are already saying he acted alone, with no conspiracy?
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #100
140. yes, but
some things cannot be buried becuase this one is linked to other investigations
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #140
149. Let's hope that happens - but I still believe that the purpose of this new
Bush-owned FBI "investigation" is to do everything they can to stall and to suppress information damaging to the administration and Bush cronies. By claiming that they are actively investigating, for example, they may be able to delay exposure of key documents or gag witnesses, all to "protect the investigation.'
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ngGale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
104. Another 'Whitewash' possible...
to make it go away.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
109. Maybe I should be in the fbi
Here is some research that I was doing on the shady bastards.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4131568

:dem:
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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #109
112. I think anyone who isn't rotten
in the Republican Party will make sure this isn't whitewashed! I am sure the REAL Republicans wants this Evil, Idiot President, along with all of his Evil Administration to go away!!!!!!
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #112
113. I hope you are right!
:dem:
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #112
118. I'm sure some will try another whitewash
but the stain keeps on coming through.
:-)
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
131. A Sunday kick...(ALL DUers need to see this!)
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
143. Just a thought: This probably wouldn't have happened if Bush wasn't still
in office.
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WarhammerTwo Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
146. Funny thing about forged documents...
If you're a journalist and you present forged documents as fact (like, perhaps, documents about someone's national guard service) without verifying their credibility, you get fired. If you're part of the current administration and present forged documents as fact (like, perhaps, documents about a nation's ability to gain nuclear weapons) without verifying their credibility and use that information to start a war where hundreds of thousands of people die, you get a Medal of Freedom or some other asinine award. See, the killing is the key. Lying = fired. Lying + killing = job well done. I guess two wrongs really do make a right. Oy.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #146
147. Welcome to DU!
:kick:
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