Pomeroy to Howard Dean: Shut up

North Dakota Rep. Earl Pomeroy is accusing Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean of overstepping his bounds, saying the former presidential candidate should not give up on the war in Iraq.

On Monday, Dean likened the war in Iraq to Vietnam and said, "The idea that the United States is going to win the war in Iraq is just plain wrong."

"My words to Howard Dean are simple - shut up," Pomeroy told WDAY Radio in North Dakota on Thursday.

"He is not hired to make major policy announcements on behalf of all the Democrats," Pomeroy said. "As our party chairman I believe he needs to focus on the nuts and bolts of winning elections."

http://www.in-forum.com/ap/index.cfm?page=view&id=D8ECB99O4
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DLC dems just can't 'shut up'

The 'business as usual' DEMS in Congress are getting coal instead of $$.

seems to be the middle one.

That's for you Congressman Pomeroy.

Rotate on it, putz.

pomeroy needs to say just exactly when "major policy announcements" _are_ made, never basically, surely little real input from rank and file, and then it's not as though the dems enforce any party discipline at all. If zell miller were in office he would still be a member of the party today if he wished to be. We really should move to a parliamentary system in this country with a lot more parties than two. And votes of no confidence can be brought after two years in office for the executive, who's voted in by the nation, strictly by national popularity, no 'electoral college' bullshit. This MUST happen if we're ever going to have sane politics in this country.

Starve 'em until they see the light. As Cindy Sheehan has said, no support for pro-war politicians.

At Kos there is a diary....

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/8/18837/0759

Shut up, Pomeroy.

the blogosphere!

earl pomeroy has drunk the koolaid..no wonder he calls for Dean to "Shut Up"

snip~

The situation in Iraq is always changing, and my experiences on the ground speaking with soldiers, both there and with those who have returned, have helped me understand the evolving picture in Iraq.



Long-term success in Iraq is possible if, and only if, progress is made in three areas:



1) SECURITY: Restoring security in the nation with a credible Iraqi army and police force;



2) GOVERNMENT: Creating a stable, democratically-elected national government; and



3) ECONOMY: Establishing a functioning economy capable of providing jobs and hope for the future for the Iraqi people.



We face daunting challenges in each of these areas. This mission has proven to be so much more difficult and costly, both in terms of human life and dollars, than the Administration predicted when it began the war in Iraq.



For all the difficulty in the past and ahead of us, I come back convinced that immediate withdrawal from Iraq is not the answer. As one U.S. General put it, “To pull out – just like that … this place would degenerate into civil war. It would become a cesspool of chaos.”



On the other hand, the American people have a right to expect concrete proof this extraordinary effort has a reasonable chance of working, and that a strategy exists which will ultimately bring our soldiers home."

And this is a BIG "On the other hand!"

http://www.pomeroy.house.gov/

it was professional but I told him he would never get my vote.

Dap

you know they are desperate, and have no plausible response to what the person is saying.

:grr:

Unlike you and the rest of the DLC, Dean actually has a spine and he's not afraid to speak the truth to power. And yes ... HOWARD DEAN SPEAKS FOR ME!!!

In a game of strip poker with Joementum Losermann dino (conn)

I don't get it. There aren't any other DLC members yelling and screaming saying the same thing is there?
John Kerry is DLC he didn't say it
Hillary isn't DLC she didn't say it


Is Murtha DLC?

One can be DLC AND an ass. In fact, that happens with remarkable frequency.

the Dem mascot is a donkey...

I'm just sayin'

Peace

Remember we all were going to give to the DNC whenever anyone, including other Democrats, dissed Dean in public?

Is that plan still in effect?

Be sure to add the ".01" to your donation so they know what it's for.

P.S. Great diary, Madfloridian

Hope more do.

:toast:

"He is not hired to make major policy announcements on behalf of all the Democrats," Pomeroy said. "As our party chairman I believe he needs to focus on the nuts and bolts of winning elections."

And the only way to WIN the elections is to make some policy changes, you fuckwit.

telling him not to just shut up but to SHUT THE FUCK UP!!! Hell, dems like him should just change parties or get the hell out of politics.

email him. He kicks out all other zip codes.

all you how are in his district! :bounce:

www.555us.com/555ND/555nd_zipcodes.htm

I've never been to North Dakota.

Because he had a very significant amount of vocal people behind him. And because he was mpre controllable there than left loose. An attempt at (re) connecting with the left in this country? Not really. Because it's not Dean's voice that the establishment doesn't want to hear, it really is that of the people he tends to represent. The establishment wants the reputation but not the substance. The votes but not the content. The establishment wants nicely reframed, preferably innocuous, marketable products. The establishment wants the perfectly bland yogurt and the campaign to sell it to the masses. Not the liberal blue cheese.

And he is meant to be kept on a very tight leash. Pomeroy and his ilk understood that perhaps better than the doctor, and they expect obedience.

In my view, Dean should bolt and form a third party. He'll get nowhere with this pro-war, pro-corporate crowd.

But lately Dean's been hitting all the right notes, and the only one who is "overstepping his bounds" is Pomeroy. Even with 60%+ of the country now opposed to the war, and even after Murtha came out and said essentially the same thing as Dean, it seems some Democrats STILL prefer to attack their own instead of uniting against the GOP.

Pomeroy can stick it. The war in Iraq is very much like the war in Vietnam, and Pomeroy is an idiot if he can't see that. We will never win a decisive victory, as long as the majority of Iraqis want us out of their country. Does Pomeroy think we can bomb people into accepting democracy, or acceptance on the part of Iraqis for destroying their country?

I truly think the politicians on both sides have become insane, and know nothing but promoting war and aggression. It's a pity they can't learn from history, but while the error is theirs, we will pay the price. I don't know about the rest of the country, but I'm pretty damned tired of having to pay for the mistakes others make.

same thing as Chimpy's aggression

thinks is a "weakness" in another Dem and is going after it.

Or

He is just stupid.



One or the other.

Or

Both.

Dean constantly makes controversial statements without adding the necessary qualifiers. This time, he failed to say something along the lines of "We have the world's best fighting troops - but we can't win given the way the President and his people are using them."

Instead, for some reason Dean, had to make it sound like the United States is unable to win wars, period.

I don't like that Pomeroy voted for the authorization of force, but there's no reason that he or any other Democrat in office should have to worry about Dean's statements hurting them for reelection.

I agree that Pomeroy should keep his criticism of Dean firmly out of the public eye.

He said we can't win this one.

The "make it sound" is the establishment reacting.

Dean constantly makes controversial statements without adding the necessary qualifiers. This time, he failed to say something along the lines of "We have the world's best fighting troops - but we can't win given the way the President and his people are using them."

Since Dean's point had absolutely nothing to do with the ranking of the US military amongst other fighting forces in the world (which is rather off topic really), how is that a qualifier of any sort? That is just an arbitrary pro-military slogan that you feel should be used to qualify a statement that isnt even critical of the military in the first place.

Instead, for some reason Dean, had to make it sound like the United States is unable to win wars, period.

Please do me the favor of finding the quote where dean does this.

I don't like that Pomeroy voted for the authorization of force, but there's no reason that he or any other Democrat in office should have to worry about Dean's statements hurting them for reelection.

You are right. There is no reason to worry about it. There is no major public support for more war, especially not among democrats. There is no reason to marginalize the anti war portion of the party or censor the sentiments of the majority of the party.

The truths hurts Earl, doesn't it.

North Dakota should have ONE senator (AT BEST).

....and you were "hired to make major policy announcements on behalf of all Democrats"?....Earl, you should be worrying more about your district and what the 3 remaining years of bush and war will do to the wallets and lives of the hard working people who put you in office....

....please leave the national stuff to the Party big-boys....you know the Good Doctor loves ya, he'll take care of ya....

I'm against the war, but I don't think Dean is in a position to speak for party. He's entitled to his opinion, but whether we stay or withdraw, losing is not a winning depiction.

truer words were never spoken, my friend. No matter how furiously * and his enablers spin this debacle, they cannot convince us that this is a winnable war. Dean is absolutely right, again.

And why wouldn't Dean speak for the party? He's only the chair of the party's national committee. Certainly a little more credible to speak for the party than this Pomeroy clown.

If Dean is going to speak for the party he should choose his words a bit more carefully. He may be right, and I think he is, about the war being unwinnable. But let's be honest here, how is the country supposed to get behind a party with a chairman who says we're fighting a war we cannot win? Now, with Bush portraying himself as "Mr. Victory," the Democrats are going to look like the party of defeatists. It's one thing to criticize the administration in how and why we went to war and why we're not succeeding in our objectives, whatever they may be. I just don't think this is good politics on Deans part and it leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. If you take Dean's statement and put it together with Kerry's bumbling performance on "Face The Nation," I think that the Democrats really hurt themselves this week.

...invasion/occupation of another sovereign nation based on a pack of lies?

Where are the Iraqi WMDs that the NeoCons stated were in Iraq?

Where is the pre-invasion connection between Saddam/Iraq and OBL/Al Qaeda?

Where is the connection between Iraq and the attacks on 911 that Herr Busch refers to so often?

What IS the justification for the loss of more than 2100 American lives, as well as the loss of tens of thousands of Iaraqi lives?

Herr Busch can attempt to portray himself any way that he likes, but he's told so many lies that even his Republican base is starting to jump from his burning bandwagon.

By the way, enjoy your short stay.

First of all, "illegal and immoral" as this war may be, it's doesn't change the reality of the fact that we're there. Not one of those questions that you asked has anything to do with how winnable the war is and if what you say here

"Herr Busch can attempt to portray himself any way that he likes, but he's told so many lies that even his Republican base is starting to jump from his burning bandwagon."

is true, then please explain a 5 point increase in Bush's approval ratings in the past week? Is it all economy? Perhaps. It's more likely a mixed bag of reasons but I can't imagine that Bush hasn't helped himself out with his latest speeches. My point is that Rove and Bush's new Duke analyst set the trap by having Bush tout his new "Plan for Victory" and I think that the Democrats need to be careful not to take the bait for multiple reasons:

A) Anti-war rhetoric turns off moderate voters. You may not care about that but I'd rather not be idea of the "opposition party" become a permanent frame of mind. I think people forget that when the right-wing says something ultra-conservative, it turns off a lot of lefties, which would be a problem if we didn't live in a center-right country. Therefore, an extreme comment made by a liberal can turn out to be extremely damaging to Democrats while a similarly extreme comment made by a conservative has less of an effect on Republicans.

B) It doesn't have to be this way. If I were Dean, I'd be focusing less on the idea that we can't win and more on the fact that the administration has never clearly defined what winning actually means and how it can be measured in terms of real results and not just "freedom" rhetoric. That way we don't look like anti-war hippies (even if we are) while at the same time forcing the issue regarding the myopic and ideological plan the Bush administration had when they took us into this war. Furthermore, it will make it more clear that the administration has changed their definition of victory multiple times throughout this campaign due to the fact that they never had a real contingency plan since ideologues, with a poor understanding of the issues we are now facing in Iraq, planned, carried out, and are still today overseeing this entire operation. I'd rather look like the competent alternative than an angry mob.

C) What if in about 6-12 months, when there are likely to be many tens of thousands fewer troops in Iraq, Bush is able to start portraying this war as a victory for America, and Americans buy it!?? It's not so far-fetched. He pulled it off in Afghanistan even though that country is an infrastructure nightmare, the Taliban is back in power, and many analysts believe that the long-term benefits of our action there have been minimal to say the least. But if you asked a bunch of Americans today if they believe that the war in Afghanistan has been a success, I bet you that most would say "yes". Peter Feaver is right on the money when he says that Americans will buy a war if you convince them that it can be won.

By the way, if you're going to react so strongly to what I said, why don't you at least say something meaningful instead of simply copying and pasting the bullet points from some daily email newsletter you receive. Also, how do you know that I haven't been to this message board a million times before?

certainly doesn't think it's rubbish. To put it mildly, he made Dean look like a fool.

It is about goddamn time that the opposition party started doing some goddamned OPPOSITION for a change, rather than tring to run as the GOP Lite party. The Terry McAuliffe tenure was a spineless disaster.

the only opinion I had was that he might be a little brash. I was amazed at his eloquence, intelligence, and humour. I left feeling better that he was in charge of the DNC and that our chances of winning had gone up dramatically. I trust Dean to do what is right for the DEM party. He has a big vision....to regrow the party from the roots up. He has been successful in the 2005 off season elections. He has the knack to inspire people and to scope out talent.
I know he chooses his words carefully. He even joked to use that he didn't need to use the raw meat with us. He also said that since there were no reporters present, he would speak bluntly with us.....and he did. This wasn't your daddy's DNC chairperson, more like your Grandpa's DNC chairperson (FDR).
The GOP (and DINO) fears this guy and jumps on ANYTHING he says. He is a threat to the business as usual in DC. I feel better sending in my checks......Give 'em hell Howard.

The fantasy life of some Americans is ASTOUNDING.

...One more point, the NeoCon Junta lost that war the second they illegally attacked and invaded Iraq based on a pack of lies.

A lot.

I think Dean needs to go for other reasons, and this latest incident--which, once again, seems to be popular mainly with his supporters and has done more to make the Party appear divided, partisan and myopic than unified and inclusive to all Progressives--just reinforced my negative opinion of him.

When everyone hear stood up and cheered Murtha for speaking the truth, that the way Chimpy is conducting this war won't work and we need to pull our guys to the borders and let them take the responsibility for their own security - were they not supporting the same idea that we can't win this war in the old fashioned sense of the defeated commander meeting in the courthouse or the battleship of the victor to sign papers of surrender?

I didn't start out a big Dr Dean fan - but I've yet to find someone who can point me to one 'outrageous' thing the Doctor has said, and been flayed for both in the media and right here on DU, that hasn't been true and didn't wind up getting recognized as true by the majority.

He's a leader, in the real sense, not the propped up, propoganda way that Shrub tries to be.

He sees where things are, where they are going and speaks out about them - even when those things aren't popular. And the people wind up catching up with him.

We (DU and all the liberal blogs collectively) constantly scream about Dems getting a spine, Dems caving in to the DLC or pandering to the right or being ReThug-lite or not standing for something or having no plans. And the minute someone like Dean speaks out in a way that's different than someone like Zell Miller or Joe Lieberman - half the freaking blogosphere starts screaming about how much he's hurting us and OMG, they shouldn't have said that. It's the most schitzophrenic thing I've ever seen.

I want a leader who has the foresight to honestly see the situation as it is, the integrity to honestly speak about it (especially when it's an unpopular view) and the courage to go out and inspire this nation into following them in that course of action. It's taken a while for me to be convinced, but I'll say it here for the first time - Dr Dean speaks for me!

Not because we are weak, not because we are inept, not because we want to withdraw. Why is it so hard for some people to comprehend that the war cannot be won, because it is not a war. We are NOT at war with the Iraqi Army, we are not at war with the Iraqi citizens. There is no good guys win vs. bad guys lose. It is not a winnable war, because it is not a losable war. Our military is being used and abused to hunt down insurgents, who are growing with each day that we spend there hunting down insurgents. The insurgents were born of our attacks there. Our mission was NOT to go to Iraq and engage in street warfare with insurgents, it was to.. wait.. what was that mission again? Hmmmm.. get Saddam out of power to get those WMDs. No.. wait, it was to free the Iraqi people and give them democracy. No.. wait, it was to clear Iraq of terrorists. No.. wait, it was to make Iraq secure. Yeah.. that's it. Anyway. The war is not winnable because it's not a war. How hard is that to understand?

Dems leaping to criticize Dean only makes it harder for him to articulate his position, which is not the irresponsible one the media would have Americans believe. I don't get how Dems keep thinking that blasting other Dems helps the cause. Why don't they all have nice, clear talking points to drive home what Dean meant? Why can Republicans focus their message, but Dems can't?

This is particularly outrageous given that polls show the majority of Americans ALREADY have feelings in line with what Dean was trying to say. They are already receptive to this message, if Dems can just get it out in a positive way.

Now we have to reform our rotten party "foot soldiers".

Unless his name is listed as a member, he might just be a Democrat that disagrees with Dean.

:shrug:

That's how it works, Congressman. When you raise $50 million in mostly small donations over the internet and start a grass roots movement, maybe someone will give actually a shit when you spout off your little DLC talking points. Dean represents the grassroots, you're astroturf, Jack.

DINO Earl Pomeroy: Cram it up your cram hole.

"He is not hired to make major policy announcements on behalf of all the Democrats"
What a bizarre statement.

I guess ol' Earl is, however, able to speak on behalf of all democrats... :sarcasm:

SHUT THE FUCK UP!!

You have Murtha to stand stand beside. Milquetoast.

Dean can use that if he wants.

Or would he rather Dean say something like: Bush messed up the war. It was right we invaded and occupied a sovereign country, but Bush just didn't do it right!

That seems to be what some Dems think they should say.

This is idiocy.

You and Holy Joe just need to leave Washington and stop acting like you're part of the opposition party.

To paraphrase a RW classic, Pomeroy should go find a country better suited to his delicate sensibilities regarding freedom of speech.

I just hate the whole "Shut-up" thing unless it's used in comedy.

You would get yourself in trouble quicker than almost anything you could do. She felt it was rude, sensless, and a lack of character. Granted, she was speaking to children, but I'll bet she would have felt the same about :grr: Pomeroy. She was apparently way ahead of her time, God love her.:loveya:

Good.

blackmail.

Something in the eyes.

IF mr Pomeroy is so behind this phoney war why isnt he there?

all pro-War chickenhawks---let's ask them whenever we get a chance. If they're too old, let's ask why they don't send their sons and daughters there.

If you feel that way, then contact Pelosi, Reid, and Dean! But DON'T go onto the public airwaves with that shit! You stupid, stupid fuck!

These people would kill their own mother if they thought it would help them pick up a few votes.

Instead of making an ass of himself, Pomeroy should turn off FAUX news and actually read what Dean said.

Either that or run in the Republican primary next time he's up for re-election. I'm sure we'll have found a real Dem who can beat him by then.

up like a Democratic responsible person?

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll627.xml

Yes, he is one of the 44 dem rat bastards who just sold out our American civil liberties.

I'm calling him a traitor to the Party.

I'll take a Howard Dean over this Zellout any day ending in "y".

:grr: