U.S. Muslims Discuss Combating Extremism (and fall prey to profiling)

Muslim leaders who gathered Saturday to discuss their role in combating extremism within the Islamic community complained that two scheduled speakers missed the event after being detained at Los Angeles International Airport.

"People are upset," said Salam Al-Marayati of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, which organized the conference. "On one hand the U.S. government is asking us to do more, but on the other they are preventing us from doing our work."

.......

Maher Hathout, founder and senior adviser of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, said Saturday that American Muslims needed to actively define their role in society so other groups, including extremists and media organizations, didn't define it for them.

"The real battle is for the soul of Islam," Hathout said. "Islam needs to be reclaimed from extremists, but only Muslims can do that."



http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MUSLIM_CONFERENCE?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

the Wahabists cancerous hijacking of the world's largest religions.

Wahhabism goes back to the 13th century, and American Muslims have as much power over it as Pat Robertson has over the Pope.

as a counterweight to the virulent wahabism being exported by the Saudi through their madrassas and "charitable" contributions throughout the islamic world.

philosophical blowback in the war of ideas for those people who have not yet made a determination of where they stand. The sword may kill the extremist, but ultimately the pen and the spoken word is what will kill Al Quada's philosophical/religious root.

"(Wahhabis) have continually warned the Muslims about every kind of deviation from Islam, including acts of terrorism."

http://www.thewahhabimyth.com/wahhabism.htm

Should we also plead for reformed Jews to balance the threat of Jewish orthodoxy?

What is the link between the Saudi terrorists and 9/11 if its not a brand of Islam ? If its not Wahhabism what is it ?

IT would be a grave oversimplification to blame it for terrorism as well.

Just as strong a case can be made for the U.S. stirring-up and then arming jihadis to go against the Russians.

This also directly resulted in 9/11, but do we blame the U.S. for the attacks... Most don't anyway.

Yes, Wahabis are fundamentalists (these means something else in Islam believe me), but the huge majority are peaceful and peace-loving.

Religion is connected to EVERYTHING in the Middle-East. The sooner one learns that the quicker one can wrap your brain around the complexities.

For example, I bank at an Islamic Bank. What does that mean? Everything and nothing...

clerics, "Saudi politics", that's your perogative but it ignores the religious/philosophical underpinnings to the current conflict with Al Quada. "Saudi Politics" does play a role in enabling Al Quada (Monarchy coddles fundamentalist religion to help it control restive populace), but it is not one and the same as the Al Quada credo (The current oligarchy has probably figured out by now that the Wahabism has gone too far and they need to curb it to try to maintain power). I don't buy that Wahibis are peace-loving. I believe that the current rank and file of Saudi Arabia are filled with a war spirit against the west (albeit a spirit fed to them by their clerics).

So you don't "buy" that Wahhabis are peace-loving. What is your opinion based on?

politics, and now no longer even good at that) sold the iraq war to 51% of populace as being "easy" and somehow connected to the conflict against al quada (which it is not). I knew Iraq was a bullshit adventure before its start simply by a general awareness of current events and media accounts. Ive drawn my conclusion about the Saudi wahabis the same ways. If you want specific cites google the word. Here's a few:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/wahhabism.html

http://atheism.about.com/od/islamicsects/a/wahhabi.htm

This is the fountainhead of Al Quada's bullshit creed. If there is a strain of Islam that is not virulently anti-western, then American Muslims need to proselytize it with the same vigor that the Saudi Wahabi's are spewing theirs.

even the unaverage (read wealthier Saudis) are as unhappy and disgusted by their monarchy as many at DU and in the U.S. are...

Most Saudis make clear distinctions between the American Gov's actions and Americans.

It always seems funny how Americans have great difficulty doing the same thing!

Monarchy; but I do think that the same group feels put out by the west perhaps for different reasons (ie. they are impure infidels) and these reasons are fueled by the Saudi clerics (Wahabi clerics). And this antipathy has nothing to do with our idiot presidents invasion of Iraq (dumbest thing our gov has done in years). And I tell you what, I would be happy to be wrong about the rank and file Saudi not being hostile to the west, but unfortunately I do not think I am. In the mean time I would like the American muslims to wrest the locus of Islam away from Saudi, mold Islam into a 21st century religion than can coexist with the rest of world peacefully (like Buddhism, or hell at this point I'd settle for Scientology whose only negative fallout is wacked celebrities and lawsuits).

Exactally. For good or ill.

I always enjoy your insights from "on the ground", as it were. Thank you very much.

An Islamic bank? As an American Muslim I think I would like a local bank that charges no interest and does not engage in riba :).

My Salaams to you and yours

Where you find Wahhabi-supported (i.e., the Sa'udi religious establishment, not Sa'udi sufis or Shi'a) you tend to find extremists. The reverse correlation tends to be significantly weaker.

Not all Salafis are Wahhabi; not all Salafis are extremists. There is a point to the site; but accuracy on one point does not entail accuracy on all points, or of the inferences we're led to draw. Most extremists claiming a basis for their actions in religion are Salafi, and many Salafi are Wahhabis. Their more or less dominant proselytization arms indulge extensively in takfir, although less in English than formerly; they tend to insist on having a say in the appointment and training of imams. Many on the liberal side of the sect show their overweening liberality by having active debates whether it's ok to greet kafir, eat meat prepared by Xians or Jews, or even--gasp--shake their hand. And the official line isn't that they're Wahhabis, but just Muslims. Sort of the prototypical kind of Muslim. The defining kind of Muslim. Whether in Sa'udi Arabia, where Shi'a barely (officially) exist, Nigeria, Bosnia, or Indonesia. They aren't really needed in Pakistan, where they have Deobandi sects to fulfill the same role. How similar those two are, I can't judge; but they seem to cooperate nicely enough that the Deobandi madresseh pitched a fit when Musharraf wanted to prohibit foreign funding, mostly Sa'udi.

That fundamentalists dislike other fundamentalists isn't a surprising phenomenon. One prefers to argue more with those similar, but not identical, than with those that are clearly different.

Wahhabism, unlike a predecessor on this thread, does not date to the 13th century. 18th, I believe, is when Wahhab struck a deal with Sa'ud and tried their first bid at conquering what they could in a fit of sectarian and tribal supremacist thinking. Which lead, of course, to a typical pacification program on the part of the Ottomans. Before they conquered the Hijaz in the 20th century, the followers of Wahhab staging a come back and justifying the conquest, showing that they were seriously in bed with the Sa'udis. The only question left is who's on top.

You know, that website is about anonymous as possible. The owners cowardly hide behind a webhosting company that registered the name through tucows.

(1263-1328). So yes, the movement is that old.

Hasidic Jews don't shake hands with women (gasp). I think if we were all a little more tolerant of the customs of other cultures, we wouldn't have to be so judgemental, or assume that religious orthodoxy necessarily foments violence.

Many political websites register their domains anonymously--there's nothing "cowardly" about it. Would you make your personal information available to everyone in the world, especially when you're trying to confront a prevalent prejudice which has little basis in fact?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Abd_al_Wahhab

"He is considered by some to be a great reformer of Islam, while others regard him as the "father of Islamic terrorism." Some consider his ideas irrational and unoriginal, merely reinteprating discredited interpretations of the Qu'ran while advocating a society mirroring that of Arabia during the first century after the Hijra. They argue that his teachings are little more than the primitive, intolerant views of a fanatic, running counter to the rich body of historical Islamic thought. Others believe he was an innovative and learned scholar whose revival of the Hanbali school of jurisprudence has served the umma at large. He has had a tremendous impact on modern Islam, particularly affecting Muslim attitudes toward non-Muslims. A number of leading figures in recent Islamic terrorism such as Osama bin Laden, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, and Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi have been influenced by his teachings and inspired by his movement." See id.

exporting, and funding which I am calling "wahabism" is virulently anti-western and is what drove those idiots flying the planes.

but I don't believe you have one. I think that's a personal prejudice which assumes that all Wahhabis support al Qaeda.

if you have some reference demonstrating that the Wahabis want peace or that the rank and file of Saudi are not filled with a war spirit I would be happy to review it.

:)

Why don't you try talking and listening to what people are saying instead of what FOX news and the MSM is trying to sell.

say that religion impacts everything in the middle east on the one hand, and on the other you say religion is not at root of Al Quada's creed but rather Saudi Politics. It appears that Wahabism is a fundamentalist sect of Islam integrated with the political fortunes of the Saudi royal family and it is from this point of origin sprung the creed of OBL and Al Quada. My initial point at the top of the thread was assuming American Muslims have a choice in matter it would be nice if they out proselytized these assholes (Saudi Wahabis) in winning the hearts and minds of Islam. My secondary point is to observe that I believe a war spirit exists in Saudi for the west. You apparently disagree with my points, though I am not exactly sure how, and invite me to Saudi for a visit and suggest I repeat faux talking points. I am not going to Saudi anytime soon so if you would like to cite to links or references or authority that is contrary to my views I am happy to review the same.

Religion is part of EVERYTHING in the Middle-East... even terrorism.

If Tim McVeigh had been from this part of the world, he would have been quoting the Koran instead of the "Turner Diaries"...

And is pretty much restricted in any numbers to Saudi Arabia, and even there most would consider themselves Sunni Muslims.

The Wahabbi movement started at about the same time as the Christian Pentecostal movement, late 18th/ early 19th century.

I've been doing a bit of research on it and will post in the Islam forum this week, Insha Allah.

Peace.

that they are supporting terrorism by their beliefs and they would rightly spit in your face...

I understand that to some, "Wahabbi" is considered condescending, and prefer to call themselves Salafi, where as some Salafi will state that they are not Wahabbi...

A much more complex theological landscape than many of us in the west understand.

And I would never tell your your feminist students that their beliefs supported terrorism, unless they told me that their beliefs supported violent jihad and terror. From what I have learned of the Wahabbi their views differ little from many conservative Sunni, in fact it could be hard to distinguish one unless he or she identified themselves as one or the other.

Indeed, from I have seen from your replies, here and elsewhere, it is evident that to even try and classify all Wahabbi in the mold of Usamma Bin Ladin is in the same vein as attempting to classify all Pentecostals in America as being like Tim McVeigh.

I envy your perspective that comes from being in Saudi Arabia. Even for an American Muslim such as myself, it can be hard to understand the rich tableaux that is the Middle East. Perhaps I will be able to visit and work in the region in the future, Insha Allah, and learn for myself.

Peace.

would find it's members unable to participate in the conference because of a possible case of profiling. Interesting that Ambassador Joe Wilson was a scheduled speaker too.

...it wasn't clear why the men were delayed. Calls to U.S. Customs and Immigration officials late Saturday seeking comment were not immediately returned.

Former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, whose CIA agent wife's cover was allegedly blown by the Bush administration, was among those who spoke at the conference.

Other speakers and panelists included Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Alina Romanowski, Farhana Khera from the National Association of Muslim Lawyers and James Yee, a former chaplain at Guantanamo Bay who was who was arrested in an espionage probe and later cleared.

Sniff. (What do I smell here?)

the current administration is undertaking this conflict with Al Quada.