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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:22 PM
Original message
GIs in Iraq Choosing to Re-Up
GIs in Iraq Choosing to Re-Up
Army Exceeding Retention Goals as Recruitment Suffers
By Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 18, 2005; Page A27

BUHRIZ, Iraq -- It was nearing midnight as Pfc. Nicholas Outen and his platoon moved silently down an alley in this Sunni enclave of canals and palm groves, on a night of raiding houses with the Iraqi police. The patrol paused, and Outen had just crouched at a street corner when a large blast threw him backward.

"I saw a flash and a boom and was smashed against the wall," recalled Outen, 20, of Baltimore. His shoulder was ripped by shrapnel from a bomb that exploded 15 feet away, killing an Iraqi policeman. Five in Outen's platoon were wounded, including his team leader, Sgt. Nathan Rohrbaugh, who lay bleeding on top of him.

The Nov. 17 attack would draw together an already tightknit platoon, now on its second tour in Iraq. For Outen, it was doubly significant: On the same day that he became eligible for a Purple Heart, he reenlisted in the U.S. Army.

Across Iraq, U.S. soldiers risking their lives daily in combat are also re-upping by the thousands, bolstering the Army's flagging manpower at a time when many young Americans are unwilling to serve. Since 2001, the Army has surpassed its retention targets by wider margins each year, showing an unexpectedly robust ability to retain soldiers in a time of war. While the force is facing a shortfall in recruitment of new soldiers, it raised its retention goal this year by 8,000 people and still exceeded it, with nearly 70,000 soldiers, or 108 percent of the target, choosing to stay in the Army.

(more)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/17/AR2005121701042.html?nav=rss_world

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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe it's better over there being 7,000 miles away from Bush
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flyingfysh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. this happened in Vietnam
People who didn't choose to re-enlist were left in the most dangerous assignments. People who reinlisted were moved to safe areas doing safe jobs. So people reinlisted to try to survive Vietnam.

Has anyone heard if the same thing is happening in Iraq?
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. This is exactly what I was thinking.
I'd be real curious to know why they're reenlisting.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. many of them re-enlist because they LOVE TO KILL
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. they will be forced to remain in service anyhow (stop-loss)
might as well get the bonus $$$ since they will be stuck there anyhow...
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. No..
the Army is managing its forces in a fundamentally different way than Vietnam. The emphasis is on unit cohesion with the manning of each unit frozen from the beginning of their training cycle to the end of their deployment. Once you are in Iraq you stay until your unit rotates home.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. I think you may have at least one important reasons behind
the high re-enlistments, assuming that's kosher (your info which sounds reasonable and the high re-enlistments) People don't want to leave their friends to face danger without them being there to help them. After so long together they are family in a very intese way.

All their friends are in the military, after all, for a large number. I wonder how the national guard/regular military numbers break down.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. The problem with the National Guard...
is that nearly half of their numbers use to come from people leaving active duty. Higher reenlistment in the regular Army is bad news for the Guard.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
43. That sounds logical and is what happened in WW1
Even some soldiers/ junior officers who became anti-war pacifists decided to return to the front to be with their men. e.g Siegfried Sassoon.
I wonder if the officer corps are re-upping/ staying on?
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antonialee839 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
40. Yes, the same thing is happening. Guys are being
told if they don't re-up, they could end up doing an extended tour,
or going back early with another company, I know this for a fact.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
41. I have read many articles in which
soldiers claim they were threatened with the most dangerous assignments if they didn't reenlist. I think that is one major reason. Another is the sort of loyalty that troops would form in such combat situations. They feel guilty about going into safety while their buddies are still over there under fire, and they feel they must reenlist to help protect their friends.

And then there is PTSD.

A friend of mine, age 38, is in the Army Reserves. He served in Gulf War I, and spent a year in Baghdad during this war. He got back last year, right at this time. He has PTSD so bad that he had to get rid of all his guns. He has had to move out of the house and live apart from his young son and his wife. They are in the process of getting a divorce. He can't sleep, and when he does, he has terrible nightmares. He is a mess.

And now he is talking about volunteering to go back. I think it is a combination of feeling he doesn't know what to do and has nothing left here and a kind of suicide wish.

Meanwhile, my 23-year-old nephew, who spent a year in Mosul, has tried college and can't focus on it or feel motivated to do much of anything else. He is actually talking about reenlisting now because he can't think of what else to do. My sister and I are frantic, but he keeps talking about it. All we can hope for is that his lack of focus and motivation will keep him from following through any time soon, and maybe the US will be able to get out of Iraq before he does it.

A lot of these people are "broken" by their experiences in Iraq. They can't function in their "normal" lives anymore, and they can't figure out what else to do.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. I believe their re-enlistment bonus is tax free over there
and if you were going to re-enlist you would try to do the tax free thing.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
45. And let's face it..
the job market is not that great in areas where the kids hail from. Word gets back to the units about members that have trouble finding work.
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. That's One Story
There are many who are going to get out as soon as they can. There are many who have been told they are going home and the stay is extended and extended. For every story there is another one that is just the opposite.
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Is it true, or is it propaganda?
Could be either. Unfortunately, fool me once and well, ah, don't fool me again. I don't know what to believe anymore.
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Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. And that is the largest problem of them all. We can't tell because the
propoganda has been smeared so hard and so long.

The Presidencey has lost credibility for at least one generation

The Government has lost Credibility for at least one generation.

The Government has lost a chance of true multi-racial equality until the next major disaster where minorities are the primary victim, on average a generation.

The Press has lost it's credibility, when this happened in the it has led to suffering economies (The Great Depression) Wars (Spanish American, Iraq b) and allowed bad men to do horrible things (McCarthy communist witch hunt, Vietnam War, Korean War, Beginning of the great depression)
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
35. I fear we are in for a bad ride. nt
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Massachusetts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. "re-upping by the thousands"
A GOOD percentage of these troops are generally high school educated (barely), below median income, and victims of displaced Nationalism. Prove me wrong.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I.E., not the kids of wealthy neocons.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. weren't the guys in ww2 told happy thoughts about reenlistment
and that's why they signed up for the reserves? then the korean war happened. and my father was shipped off again.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. first term of bush they can be excused for this
second term, and there is no doubt about the lies

Now they are just killers killing in our name

This is like Nam, and years from now after more Americans and Iraqiis are dead what then?

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. Sitting around a VA hospital telling war stories or waiting for
the bars to open.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. Some of these are reupping to help their friends/miltary mates
They don't want to leave their buddies in such an unsafe place, so reup to help them out. 1 example many have heard of is Casey Sheehan. It is common psych thing when in an unsafe stressful place to bond so strongly with other participants, that you need to stay and help them survive rather than getting out yourself. Peace to all these men and women, may they be able to find peace within themselves somehow sometime. Death is not the worst they suffer.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. It sounds like a version of Stockholm syndrome
I understand that it is really the small unit dynamic at work (intense loyalty to a relatively small group of comrades regardless of politics), but it has the effect of helping Bushites.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. That's something I've not considered before
Great insight there, Daleo. Thanks!

:hi:
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Thanks to you
It's nice talking. :hi:
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
47. that is exactly it. people who get out and come home often
think of their buds who are still there and feel somewhat guilty for leaving them. nt
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harpo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. this is due to "family" environment...they feel like they have to....
in order to protect their "brothers" who are still in battle.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. They are offering substantial bonuses to anyone who re-ups.
As well as to new recruits who agree to go into MOS's that are severely undermanned.

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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Is "IED Fodder" an MOS?
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yep. Except they have it listed as
"Infantryman".

You're not supposed to learn the lingo until it's too late to get out of it.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm sorry. I just can't believe any statistics provided by the Pentagon
I just can't.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. Brotherhood, reenlistment bonuses, and propaganda.
This is a stew from which no ingredient can be removed. Stories like this coming out will tempt young wannabe heros to join so that they, too, can stick together no matter the weather.

Further, I don't know what "reupping by the thousands" means, but AFAIC it doesn't mean squat if 10,000 are reupping and we need 100,000.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
20. Here are some stats on bonuses from May 2005
From On Guard :

Same great family
Re-enlistment bonus for continued service in the National Guard Family
By On Guard Staff Report
National Guard Bureau

ARLINGTON, Va. – A substantial increase in enlistment and re-enlistment bonuses for Army National Guard Soldiers has begun to pay big dividends to the National Guard and its Soldier’s families who conitinue to serve their .

The Army Guard is offering a six-year, prior-service enlistment bonus of $15,000 with a payment schedule of 50 percent at the time of enlistment and 50 percent at the fourth-year anniversary.

The Guard is also offering a two period, three-year enlistment option of $7,500 for the first three years and $6,000 for the second three years. The payment schedule is 50 percent at the beginning of the three-year commitment and 50 percent upon completion of that commitment.

The Army Guard is offering a six-year reenlistment, or extension, bonus of $15,000 payable in a lump sum upon the re-enlistment or extension. It is also offering a two period, three-year reenlistment, or extension, bonus of $7,500 for the first three years and $6,000 for the second three years. The payment schedule for that option is a lump sum upon the reenlistment or extension. Soldiers with no more than 16 years of service are eligible for this bonus.

The Army Guard is also offering $2,000 bonuses to Soldiers who agree to retrain into a critical military occupational specialty (MOS) to meet the Army Guard's needs. The payment will be made in a lump sum upon completion of the training in the new MOS. This bonus cannot run concurrently with any other incentives that the Soldier has.

There is also incentive for new people to join the Army National Guard.

It is offering non-prior service enlistment bonuses of up to $10,000 for a six-year enlistment. The Guard will pay 50 percent of that bonus upon successful completion of individual advanced training and the other 50 percent at the end of the fourth year.

Here is the breakdown:
$10,000 for enlisting in one of the Army Guard's 10 most critical military occupational specialties. Those are infantryman, cannon crewmember, combat engineer, military police, light-wheel vehicle mechanic, motor transport operator, health care specialist, automated logistical specialist, food service specialist, and unit supply specialist.
$6,000 to non-prior service Soldiers who choose to train in a MOS that is considered critical to the readiness of that Soldier's state. States cannot exceed 30 MOS's.
$2,000 bonuses to non-prior service Soldiers who agree to perform their initial One Stop Unit Training during the off-peak months of October through May.

http://www.ngb.army.mil/onguard/34/05/article.asp?aid=1485


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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. $10-15000?
life is cheap. :(
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Isn't it though?
It's hard for guys to turn down that kind of money and I think they're willing to take their chances.

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ecoalex Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. Can you spell propaganda?
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
29. They're being strong-armed. Re-up and get a bonus or get stuck anyway
Edited on Sun Dec-18-05 08:49 PM by Mandate My Ass
without the extra money.

From Cindy Sheehan's blog.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/sheehan/sheehan11.html

Lietta, also from Washington State writes:


March 05, it was time for both to make decision to re-enlist. As already under orders to redeploy; as already under Stop Loss; their choices = 1) don't re-enlist but you will wind up in Iraq anyway under Stop Loss or 2) re-enlist and while you'll still wind up in Iraq under Stop Loss, at least you'll have the attractive bonus being offered.

The point is that the 'Retention' rate that is being touted as demonstrative of soldier's fervor and good faith in the war is another deception being foisted on the media and public. Closer to the truth of the situation is that one they are in, they cannot get out and it is entrapment from the front end with deceptive recruitment practices, again at re-enlistment time with the threat of deployment to Iraq under Stop Loss, again when contract ends and they are kept in and deployed via Stop Loss. What continues to be called an 'all voluntary military' has become an 'involuntary' military through the use strategies of deception and legal maneuvering for which there seems to be no remedy in the Stop Loss.
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tn-guy Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
30. My take
I'm relatively new here so perhaps I'm missing something but many of the entries on this thread pain me.

It seems that hardly anyone seems to think that servicemen and women sign up because they are actually motivated to serve their country. I'm not saying that's the only or even the primary motivation but in my opinion actually having a motivation to serve the greater good is part of what's going on.

Remember that the military is under civilian control and that this attitude of deference to civilian authority is inculcated right from the start. It's not a matter of whether soldiers and sailors support Bush personally or not. From the military point of view he is the duly authorized Commander in Chief. If Congress authorized a war, which it did, then the military will prosecute that war as the civilian authority orders. This is true whether the president has a D or R after his name.

I think a lot of the military are re-upping is because they are actively engaged in the activity for which they spend their careers training and they feel they are actually serving their country doing something they are well fitted for.

It is painful to see so many people dismiss military personnel as dim-witted, blood-thirsty or so without hope that they cannot survive in the civilian world. While I'm sure there are some who match those characterizations, they are a small minority.
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. Welcome to DU!
I can go along with you on most everything you've stated except one thing........Congress DID NOT authorize a war.........it authorized giving the President the "OPTION" to use force if further diplomatic measures failed. He never even tried to use diplomacy once he got his way by LYING TO THE CONGRESS!! So let's all try to get over that myth that they "authorized a war"
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tn-guy Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. thank you
Well, the focus of my post was over the motivation of those who volunteer for military service so I don't really want to quibble over whether congress "authorized the war" or "authorized the option of war". Either way, it doesn't affect what I said about the motivation of those who volunteer. What I was trying to say is that the choice to go to war was a choice by the civilian, political part of the government, not one that the military made. The military personnel will do their best whether they agree with the war politically or not. Same as with the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. They will follow that policy because they were told to. People lose sight of the fact that these decisions are not made by the Pentagon but by civilian authority.
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. You are semi-correct!!
Edited on Mon Dec-19-05 11:52 PM by discerning christian
Please don't think I'm singling you out (for my nit-picking) I know I'm a nag!! From your last sentence, "these decisions are not made by the Pentagon, but by civilian authority" Donald Rumsfield, and at the time, Colin Powell WERE THE PENTAGON !! It's the Neo-con influence from the Executive authority that made these decisions.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. Pentagon propaganda.
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Hyernel Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
36. Too emotionally damaged to make it back in the "world."
May as well stay in the sandbox and deepen the mental illness.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. What happens to guys in combat is....
a kind of illness. Afterward, too.

But I remember from Vietnam... the feeling that there is no world outside your "family" in the war. Your parents are dim and distant, your friends are concerned about trivialities, and politics sounds like something from another planet.

Your only life is there. If you leave, your real world ends.

Many guys actually came back to their units from R&R early and came back from wounds and injuries as soon as possible, rather than staying in the hospital.

You're right.. it's an illness.

This country keeps causing that illness, and shows no shame for doing it.

This country has no soul.
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
38. Aren't they all stop-lossed anyway?
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
39. they make it sound like this is pure volunteerism
it isn't. its a carrot and stick approach. bonuses and being stop-lossed, not much of a real choice here.
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rickrok66 Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
46. Why are service members re-enlisting
I am in the military and getting ready to retire.

Here are my thoughts:

Some soldiers believe in what they are doing. Their unit may have helped rebuilt a school or an orphanage so on a micro-level, the war is successful to that service member.

There is a friction point in everybody's career between the 6 and 10 year mark. If you get out, get out when you are young. If you get out when you are in your early thirties, then you will have a hard time finding a job with no pension. After the 10 year mark, most guys (like me) suck it up until you reach the 20 year mark, then you can at least retire with a pension.

There is stop-loss, which is holding back a lot of people.

Another thing is to re-enlist in theater (a tax free zone). This is the genius of the American soldier. You re-enlist in Iraq, but change to another MOS or duty assignment. Since your enlistment was in Iraq, your bonus will be tax-free, plus all the benefits you get. Then, shortly thereafter, you rotate back to CONUS to your new job or duty assignment.

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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
48. If those guys like
it there so much let them STAY there!
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