Houston pastor Osteen, family kicked off flight (runs largest US church)

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/122105dntexosteen.252816a.html

The pastor of the nation's largest church and his family were asked to leave a plane after his wife failed to comply with a flight attendant's instructions, the FBI said Tuesday.

Houston Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen, his wife Victoria Osteen, and their two children boarded a flight from Houston to Vail, Colo., Monday. The plane's door had been closed when Victoria Osteen and a flight attendant had a disagreement.

"She failed to comply with the flight attendant's instructions and they were asked to leave the flight," FBI spokeswoman Luz Garcia said.

The flight was delayed for more than an hour while the Osteens' luggage was retrieved, Garcia said. The Osteens took another flight to Colorado, where church spokesman Don Iloff said the family was skiing Tuesday.

Seriously, for someone in their position to provoke this to happen, the woman must have been throwing her "status" around ("Do you know who I am") in a major way.

Screw them.

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3537525.html

Church spokesman Donald Iloff said the Osteens and their children had boarded Flight 1602 and were preparing to settle into the first-class section when Victoria Osteen noticed liquid in her seat.

She contacted a flight attendant, Iloff said, but the spill apparently was not cleaned up to Victoria Osteen's satisfaction.

The couple and their children left the plane voluntarily and took a later Continental flight, Iloff said. He noted that no one was detained in connection with the incident.

---------------

Yeah..pretty damned spoiled. God "wants" him to be rich.

http://www.theocracywatch.org/rel_inst_post_osteen_jan30_05.htm

He is unapologetic that he lives well in a $1 million house in an upscale neighborhood and that he is pouring the church's offerings into the Compaq Center these days, not into charities.

"I feel like God wants us to prosper," he said. "My dad grew up in the Depression. . . . It is not God's will for anybody to live where you can't support your family. . . . Roger Clemens just signed for $18 million -- man, don't tell me I can't have a nice house and send my kids to college."

I usually applaud when they are asked to leave.

jerks to leave their flight.

- I'm assume that allowing baggage of someone who is not on the plane is regarded as a threat - why wasn't it removed to a remote area of the airport and detonated? Preferably within sight of the people who were delayed?

I think that it's way past time to associate some pain with being an ass. No mature adult should fail to realize that their actions have consequences.

At least it would have taken the edge off of anger, eh.

:)

I see some interesting ironies in evangelism... It couldn't exist without the tolerance of democracy but is itself inherently intolerant. The entire purpose is to promote its own beliefs to the exception of any other beliefs. The same type of hypocrisy that runs rampant through the GOP, and *'s crowd in particular

That better fits your def: "couldn't exist without the tolerance of democracy but is itself inherently intolerant."

Evangelism, strictly speaking, is just "spreading the good news."

Aside from that, I would love to see a disrupter's luggage get blown up. I've done my share of air travel, hey.

Their news almost always comes with a sidebar that you are going to hell unless you adhere to the message. They like spelling out the consequences of your actions, yet seem oblivious to the consequences of their own - hypocrisy runs rampant.

I agree that fundamentalism is more odious and a bigger concern, but until the moderate and tolerant religious start disowning the fundamentalists, it hard not to heap them in the same pile.

We love the smell of exploding underwear in the morning.

It smells like... victory.

might be catching on to the fact that these folks are true asswipes.

Well ya, unless they were going to Vail as well, anyone well-heeled enough to afford Vail prices for anything can stand a little inconvenience.

got left to them by the old man? Being the shlub I am, I know nothing about how the estate tax works, but I'll bet John's estate was tied up in probate until Bu$hCo's coup and the estate tax repeal. Therefore it didn't get taxed on the way in, and it didn't get taxed when wussy boy Joel was obliged to take over the empire and its assets.

I guess it never occurred to these vultures that their supposed worship of the Baby Jeebus from the cozy ski lodge, should have been precluded by some charitable Christmas effort for the Katrina survivors in Houston.

What I can't figure out is, surely the corporate donor of the vacation trip could have transported these vultures on his private jet... maybe Vickie the Bling Ho has already made a scene on his jet?

And somehow, I know there is a way to connect the dots between this trip, its donor, and Tom DeLay. Would LOVE to see that.

AND HIS SCUM BAG WIFE IS A PIECE OF WORK TOO.

THE NEW JIM AND TAMMY BAKER

STRIP MINING THE POCKETS OF THE POOR




On October 3, 1999, Joel Osteen assumed the position
of Senior Pastor of Lakewood Church. Under Pastor Joel and Victoria Osteen's leadership, Lakewood has grown
in every area of ministry. Lakewood added additional worship services in order to accommodate its growth in an auditorium that sat 7,800. Now with over 30,000 adults in weekly attendance and 3,500 children and students attending weekly programs, the church has moved into the 16,000 seat Compaq Center, former home of the Houston Rockets NBA basketball team.

Classic.

The look like mannequins. And what a fake smile!

Or maybe her kids did? Planes are still customarily cleaned before boarding, at least cursorily. I non-rev on a major carrier all the time and fly 1st class or coach all the time. I've never seen "liquid" on the seat unless I spilled it accidently. Then it usually lands on my lap and I blot it up.

seems like that would wipe up fairly easily...

I fly a lot and get upgrades to 1st. I've never seen anything on a seat. And if I did, I can't imagine the FA wouldn't attend to it immediately. And I find it IMPOSSIBLE to imagine making such a fuss that they'd kick me off the flight!

the lovely lady in the seat in front of me left a dirty diaper -- and she told the flight attendant she was leaving it

the FA forced a smile & said they'd clean it up but i thought that was way over-the-top

too bad FAs can't have people like that put on the no fly list

not to defend the indefensible but first class ain't always what it used to be and it isn't completely impossible that an unknown liquid was on the seat

I really despise these conmen and hucksters

education for the kiddos. Butto live lavishly while others suffer in poverty has little to do with Jesus, IIRC.

I would have been out of there.

christian, my ass.

"...Roger Clemens just signed for $18 million -- man, don't tell me I can't have a nice house and send my kids to college."

Can anyone say "sense of entitlement"? Has the IRS investigated this guy yet? He does have to pay income tax on his "housing allowance", does he not? Or is he claiming the house is a "parsonage" owned by the church?

he doesn't have to pay income tax on what he actually spends on his house--mortgage, upkeep, etc. But he DOES have to pay social security tax on it (self-employment tax). On anything above and beyond what he actually puts into his house, he has to pay both income and SS taxes. No matter what Rick Warren's lawyers say.

I know. I live in a parsonage.

""I feel like God wants us to prosper," he said. "My dad grew up in the Depression. . . . It is not God's will for anybody to live where you can't support your family. . . . "

He can tell that to the Katrina evacuees. Or is it God's will for them to still be living in Bushvilles? :sarcasm:

Was that step 1,2,3,4,5,6, or 7 to living at her full potential? I haven't read the book yet, so I don't know.

their connecting flights over her hissy fit???

rambled on about how the wife should be subservient to her husband. I was hungover and was mesmerized by the shit pouring from his mouth. I just couldn't turn the channel.

I'm shocked to think Joel didn't handle this situation - rather than allow his wife to speak for herself.

But I guess that's how you get a group to stop thinking for themselves - the kids listen to mom, mom listens to dad, and dad listens to the preacher, who talks for God. God makes all the decisions and they all fall lockstep into whatever the preacher man tells them. It explains why Survivor is still on the air.

If he ever has.

wallet is still in tact.

Say hello to the new Jim and Tammy Fay...:sarcasm:

I always tell this story. Several years ago, a friend of mine had to spend 2 years in Federal custody. Some kind of "white collar crime". Not defending it here, crime is crime, but it's part of the story. Anyway, this guy was in the same prison as Jim Bakker, and in the same dormitory. He told me that Bakker drove everyone nuts. He never shut up.

:spank: Bad Feeny2, bad!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

to bite the airline industry in the ass.

Me, I refuse to fly unless I absolutely have to since my last trip a couple of weeks ago. Was verbally berated by a flight attendant for having my ipod on my lap and my ear buds in my ears before takeoff. It wasn't on. Absolutely hostile reaction over something so small. Two days later the air marshalls killed that man. Had to get on another flight two days later and the TSA jerks were the biggest, hostile assholes I've ever seen. Is this all really necessary?

"failing to comply with the flight attendant's instructions"...tantalizing!

n/t

:evilgrin:

Where in the story do you see that?

it is against the law not to follow the flight crews' instructions. get it??

I was wondering where you were coming from, too.

That's funny.

took some heat like the rest of the mundanes... :bounce:

great holiness. Maybe they envied their piety! Maybe they were all humanists!



The blessed couple.

someone told them Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.

But it turned out to be much more horrifying than that...the flight was delayed an HOUR over a spilled drink getting her seat wet.

TAMPONS: "Satan's Little Cotton Fingers!"
Landover Ladies Vow to "Stop Satan From Pulling The Strings!"

Ladies of Landover member Mrs. Taffy Davenport-Gaines Crockett, visiting the Landover Christian Pharmacy recently to refill the church tract display, happened upon a shocking sight. A young woman was visibly upset and arguing loudly with pharmacist Emma Mae Martin. What Mrs. Crockett discovered next sickened her unto the point of nausea.

"The young woman was trying to buy tampons," Mrs. Crockett said, barely able to hold back tears. "I snatched that girl by the hair and pulled her outside... there were children present! Can you imagine how they'd be damaged by hearing such evil ideas?"

“I explained to this young lady that we do not carry such phallic devices as tampons and when attending to her monthly curse," Mrs. Martin said, adding that "Satan himself controls the manufacturing of those things." The young woman then began to verbally abuse her, she said.

"A Godly woman is only to use a Maxi-Pad," Mrs. Crockett stated. "Why, they even have them with little angel wings now! I handed her a box and told her unless she wanted my handprint across her face she was never to utter that evil T word again!” The as yet unidentified woman then fled the store in humiliation. Landover Security sketch artists are preparing a likeness to aid in identifying the young woman. Her salvation status is unknown, but based on this event, it is likely she is Hellbound.

More:
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0999/cotton.html

:hi: Thanks for the smile!!! :)

:kick:

omg, stop = this is hella funny! thanks, IANDB1.

All church members are encouraged to join in the BBQ and bring a covered dish as we celebrate yet another Victory over Satan. Marshmallows for roasting over the bonfire will be provided by The Ladies of Landover. Due to the nature of this event, the roasting of hot dogs will be prohibited for obvious reasons.

He must qualify such a huge salary because he has the nation's largest church with the most members.

I hope they enjoy their exclusive vacation in Vail. :sarcasm:

Mega-churches are so 1998.

So is self-help liturgy. This too shall pass.

when on stage. Next time you flip through the channels and see him, pause for 10 seconds before you change to something else and count how many times he blinks. I think he either has stage fright or he doesn't believe what he's speaking. In any case, remember to change the channel before you get the urge to send money to support his lifestyle.

and can dry your eyes out quickly.
Frankly, I watch/met the Osteen's (watched his dad way back when)since the early 70's. They are a very nice couple and have done good works and continue to do good works. I find the incident very surprising because they are a very laid back couple. And the incident is made even more embarrassing because of who he is (he is Joel Osteen-not Christ). He has talked very directly about this before incident and mention that he guards his behaviour carefully so as to set the example. I have know many a pastor's wives and children. I think it is more difficult to be them than the pastor. They are held to unrealistic standards. I often wondered if Jesus had children (and there are some scholars that think he may have had at least one)----what would be expected of them.
I suspect things may have been blown out of proportion. Holiday travel is stressful and the airline personnel can get you for anything-so I tend to cut people (anyone) slack this time of year, even pastor's wives.

while i'm not inclined to have any positive feelings toward mega-church pastors, my feeling is there could be two sides to the story, i've seen flight attendants take something wrong & get bent out of shape for no real reason, they are human too

and it just seems too out of character for these folks. I have never known them to be anything else BUT respectful. It just doesn't add up. They are well liked and well thought of here in Houston (of course, the green eye monster of jealously rears it head every now and again). I really have an aversion to tele evangalists...but John and his son Joel (and Billy Graham) have always had my respect, and continue to have my respect.

I mean, it's not like there's anything else going on in this country. :sarcasm:

Hey, they paid for a first-class seat, it was soaked in someone else's drink, and so they moved to another plane...with the airline's cooperation. Big f---ing deal.

There's nothing to THIS story. They didn't say that people saw her be incredibly rude or anything in the link (I added www so it'd come up) http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3537525.html

not a big deal at all. HOWEVER, there are a lot of people on here who seem to have a definite bad taste when they see these people passing out kool aid. Glad to say I've never seen them I guess.
Not every Christian preacher is a fake, but darn, they're hard to come by (the TV ones)!!!!

I've seen very drunk people not get kicked off a plane. Whoever said it first was right. That must have been some serious hissy fit for them to give her the boot.

Good. She should get no better than everyone else.

:applause:

Texas MegaChurch Feeds Multitudes With Gospel Message

By Jim Brown
March 5, 2004

(AgapePress) - The pastor of the largest church in America says "where there's life, victory, and God's blessings, you're going to have crowds."

On a typical weekend, 25,000 to 30,000 people show up to attend one of four services at Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas. Although critics argue that megachurches like Lakewood often water down the gospel and seek to entertain, Pastor Joel Osteen says his ministry is all about the gospel -- and about making lives better.

<snip>

And although they are coming out to Lakewood in droves, the pastor says even if the church's services only attracted 100 people each weekend, his preaching would not change. Osteen, who calls his church a "charismatic-evangelical mix," attributes its large following to its television ministry and strong discipleship programs, which help individuals maximize their personal growth.

<snip>

Yet some question whether the ministry at Lakewood may be emphasizing the good news of the gospel while downplaying the less palatable bad news about man's fallen condition. A recent FoxNews.com article stated that Osteen does not preach on sin.

<snip>

Joel Osteen became senior pastor of Lakewood Church in 1999, after having served alongside his father, founding pastor John Osteen, for 17 years. Founded in 1959, Lakewood Church today has some 25,000 to 30,000 adults in weekly attendance and more than 2,500 children participating in weekly children's programs, while its weekly television programs can now be seen more than 100 million households in the U.S., Canada, and around the world.

link to hate site deliberately left out.



Joel Osteen the "new face of Christianity!"

Yikes! Well, this isn't new here at Streak's Blog, but it is still disturbing. If this guy is the new face, I will pass. With him and Bush, Christianity doesn't need external enemies.

'The Smiling Preacher' Builds on Large Following (washingtonpost.com): "Osteen is called 'the Smiling Preacher,' and he is perhaps the hottest commodity in the world of multimedia religion these days. His is the new face of Christianity, upbeat and contemporary, media-smart with a heightened sense of entertainment and general appeal.

The charismatic, nondenominational church he inherited from his late father six years ago has quadrupled in size, and today is the largest and fastest-growing in the country, welcoming upward of 30,000 visitors a week, according to Church Growth Today, a research center that follows church trends. Osteen's television broadcast is shown in every U.S. market, reaching 95 percent of the nation's households, and in 150 countries.


<snip>

All this from a man who dropped out of Oral Roberts University after one year and never received formal theological training -- although he does note that religion is the family business and he benefited greatly from on-the-job training. (He was ordained through his father's church in 1983.)"



Oh, my very favorite graph. A) I love the assumption that had he completed his degree at Oral Roberts, he would have received a "formal theological training." Hah. That makes me laugh. B) I love that theology is so very shallow that he can just pick it up from his late father--who hardly probed the depths of theology. And C) I can't get over the fact that he dropped out of Oral Roberts. How hard can it be to go to school there? It obviously isn't that he was looking for intellectual depth, after all!

More:
http://streaksblog.blogspot.com/2005/01/joel-osteen-new-face-of-christianity.html



"Joel Osteen: Christianity's latest revelation"

'The Smiling Preacher' has created a multimedia powerhouse with far-reaching, simple messages from a growing Houston base

Detroit News February 15, 2005 http://www.detnews.com/2005/religion/0502/15/E01-89935.htm

The pitch for money is quick and low-key, usually made by Victoria Osteen in
a less than two-minute appeal before the buckets are passed. Osteen does not
solicit offerings on television. "We're not on television to beg people for
money," he says. "Television is an outreach."

He is unapologetic that he lives well in a $1 million house in an upscale
neighborhood, and that he is pouring the church's offerings into the Compaq
Center these days and cut back on its charitable giving.

"I feel like God wants us to prosper," he says. "My dad grew up in the
Depression. ... It is not God's will for anybody to live where you can't
support your family. ... (Houston Astros pitcher) Roger Clemens just signed
for $18 million -- man, don't tell me I can't have a nice house and send my
kids to college."

Osteen says if the church "had that vow-of-poverty mentality, I don't know
if we could raise $80 million" for the Compaq Center.

More:
http://www.concordtx.org/wrldnews/osteen.htm




February 08, 2005
In Defense of Joel Osteen

I have recently observed certain bloggers and others on the Internet severely criticizing Joel Osteen, the pastor of Houston's Lakewood Church and rising star in evangelical circles. Osteen is being subjected to controversy due to the content of his sermons, which critics say emphasize too much psychology and too little Gospel. Some critics have crossed a line and accuse Osteen of being apostate and a false teacher. If you Google "Joel Osteen" you can find many of them waving pitchforks and buckets of tar and feathers with Osteen's name on them. One specifically said that Osteen was "clueless, "evil" and "apostate," stating affirmatively that Osteen was not just one of these things, but "ALL of them" and more.

I say this not to condemn, but simply to illustrate that there are other "diseases" out there besides preaching an incomplete gospel, as some accuse Osteen of. One disease is knowing Christian doctrine a lot more than one knows the living Person of Christ. You can know the Bible and still have very little real growth. Time and again I have seen people who have some Christian knowledge lash out against someone with whom they disagree without ever considering their own spirit first. It amazes me how many people feel free to condemn other Christians personally and by name as if this were a political arena and not the Body of Christ.

Having read Osteen's book I cannot deny that I have been greatly helped by it. Osteen does emphasize positive thinking. But psychology is part of our God-created humanity. Who is supposed to help us with it? Sigmund Freud? Surely God’s word has something to say about it, and it does. Christians are human and so DO tend to think too negatively. We DO think about our problems more than the Solution. We DO doubt God's promises. We DO miss out on God's best. Osteen provides tools to break through that negativity. Where does it say that a Christian teacher should not emphasize psychology? Like I said, if Christian teachers don't do this, to whom shall we go? Worldly psychologists?

One blogger who condemned Osteen wrote in conclusion about him “you will never get to know Jesus listening to him. Never.” In my experience, this statement is manifestly false. Osteen’s teaching has brought me closer to Jesus by helping me break through those negative barriers in my mind which keep me from Him.

<snip>

I believe Joel Osteen believes in this Christ as well. Some accuse Osteen of being essentially the same as Anthony Robbins. I have read Robbins. He's a nice man, but he comes from a different place, a different spirit, than Osteen. The similarities are superficial. There is no power behind Robbins' words. There is behind Osteen's. And according to my discernment, that power is the Spirit of God. When I read Osteen I feel closer to God and more hopeful that He will do a good work in me.

More:
http://bothworlds.typepad.com/both_worlds/2005/02/in_defense_of_j.html

Bring on the dancing girls. This has been an informative thread.

:rofl:

Osteen is just a grifting son of a grifter.
And a son of a bitch, also.

he is a a big attraction. He is super slick and comes across as sooo sincere. And he tells people what they want to hear. He would fit into todays political world easily. I'm sure he learned all he needed to know fom his father. Also, his message must be a relief to his congregation. No talk about sinning ect, down there in Bible Belt Central.I always check out big box preachers, fun.

"He tells people what they want to hear." That is exactly it. My best friend is even caught up in his BS, and she says it's because his sermons are always "positive and uplifting." That doesn't make a preacher! That makes a motivational speaker! Osteen basically takes feel-good fluff and weaves soome Bible verses through it to make it into a sermon. His smarmy smile makes me cringe.

Which woud be okay, if he didn't call himself a pastor. Jerk.

Osteen preaches another gospel, a gospel of imagination that continues to degrade the distinction between Christians and Sinners.

Osteen's consistent theme song for their "Discover the Champion in You" slogan is obviously contrary to the Word of God. Note it's theme:

"We Are the Champions" I've paid my dues

Time after time I've done my sentence

But committed no crime And bad mistakes I've made a few

I've had my share of sand Kicked in my face But I ain’t gonna lose

We are the champions-my friends And we'll keep on fighting

Till the end

We are the champions...We are the champions

No time for losers... Cause we are the champions of the World’

This is exactly what the apostle Paul was warning Timothy about (2 Timothy 4:1,4).

Consistently, Osteen continues with his erroneous ideology of using positive images to get what you want in life, Osteen magnifies the idea that we can get what we want from God by our faith-filled words. He preached an entire sermon on how as a child of God we should be receiving "preferential treatment" by everyone.

He testified about how he had been pulled over a couple of times for speeding but when the officer saw his last name was Osteen, no ticket was issued. He said the same can happen for every Christian who wakes up declaring they have God’s favor. By following this ideology Osteen says he has been able to get the best parking spot in a crowded parking lot, a first class seat on a crowded airplane with no boarding pass, and priority seating at restaurants.

Osteen's ideology is a clear contradiction to what the Bible says true believers will encounter from the world. Jesus warned in John 15:18-19, "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."

Osteen's gospel of positive imagination looms over hell by ignoring hell's gloom and doom.

from

http://www.invitation.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=173


Like the "preferential treatment" Jesus got, perhaps?

Champion in Others, especially the Poor and the Afflicted."

"We Are the Champions" I've paid my dues
Time after time I've done my sentence".

"We are the Champions" wouldn't be out of place in the mouth of Lucifer. He thought he was "The Man" (metaphorically speaking, of course), and Christ saw him fall from Heaven like a bolt of lightning.

And as for "I've paid my dues...", well.... no. Christ paid our dues, matey. "We are unprofitable servants. We are to say, "I have done only what I was supposed to do....". Doesn't sound to me as if they're saying that, does it?

"Teach us to see you present in all men; - help us to recognise you most in those who suffer", is a prayer in the Roman Catholic church's book of psalms, now known as the "Prayer of the Church" - formerly, "The Hours".

"Love has no ambition to seek anything for itself: strengthen our will to give up selfishness today", is another.

"And the rich young man went away sorrowful...".

That surprises me.

He probably has no idea who Freddie Mercury is.

"Osteen continues with his erroneous ideology of using positive images to get what you want in life..."

Yet when New Agers use visualization and positive imagery, they are inviting Satan into their lives, by turning their minds to something "worldy," not meditating on Gawd.

"He testified about how he had been pulled over a couple of times for speeding but when the officer saw his last name was Osteen, no ticket was issued. He said the same can happen for every Christian who wakes up declaring they have God’s favor. By following this ideology Osteen says he has been able to get the best parking spot in a crowded parking lot, a first class seat on a crowded airplane with no boarding pass, and priority seating at restaurants."

Yet when Laurie Cabot wrote the same sort of thing in one of her books (Power of a Witch?), fundies had a fit, as they do any time someone professes a belief in "magic(k)."

So, Osteen is a feel-good huckster professing a belief in imagery/visualization and magical thinking. Yet because he cloaks this heresy in bread and circuses and a sheen of Christianity, it's OK?

Hypocrite.

:mad: :puke: :grr: :nuke:

I'm sure Faux will have a two-hour special on this.

My dad was a pastor and there was no way, no how he could have taken any days off in the busiest season of the year. I guess Rev. Joel doesn't care if they lose the so-called War on Christmas.

You gotta hit the slopes while the snow flies, baby!

Christmas is for pagans, anyways.

Make that a high velocity tree hugger.

or New Year's, if the Lakewood schedule is accurate. Maybe he trades holidays with one of the associate ministers? :shrug:

And although she does leave her church on some holidays to spend with her grandchildren, she could never afford to be so extravagant.

DU knows how to spell moron-- it's an inside joke. Perhaps someone will post the picture.

wouldn't even consider asking. I've never even taken vacation during Lent or Advent. I knew, going in, that that was part of the gig. But you better believe my car will be packed and waiting when I give that benediction Christmas morning! But, what do I know? I'll be spending my vacation in Iowa!

It looks like the corporate Christmas has won with the evangels.

They worship the DOLLAR, not the lord.

Wake up people can't you see the hipocracy?

not warrant the expenditure of resources to keep the church open.

Seriously!

But: "Pastor Joel Osteen will not be ministering this weekend."

www.lakewood.cc/site/Calendar/720835219?view=Detail&id=1382&whence=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lakewood.cc%2Fsite%2FPageServer%3Fpagename%3DCalendardServiceSchedule

I doubt Joel is worried about inheritance tax on his father's estate. And he stays out of politics.

Osteen is a rich man. His new best-selling book, "Your Life Now," is doing so well now, the church says he's foregoing his $174,000-a-year salary. In all, Lakewood reports bringing in $48 million last year. And Joel Osteen hopes to fill all 16,000 seats in his new mega-church four times every week. .....

ZAHN: But when you talk about your message being positive, that leaves you open to charges that you're copping out, that you won't directly address issues like abortion and other really incendiary issues. What do you say to those critics?

JOEL OSTEEN: You know what, Paula? I think everybody is called to different things. And I've never been -- my dad's never been political, and I just -- you know, that's just not me. I know my gifts are to encourage people, to inspire them, to motivate them.

And, you know, I believe when -- you know, if you get into areas that you're not called to, you know, it just divides the very audience that I'm trying to reach.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/18/pzn.01.html

As far as televangelists go Joel Osteen isn't bad. The same may not be true of his wife.

but no radical at all. This is a guy who seems to be about as doctrinal as the side of a box of cereal.

He's a sweetness and light kind of preacher. I don't really have any problems with his show, just wonder about the money involved. That much money always corrupts.

Amazing how well these "do-gooders" live... (I hear Mother Teresa preferred Jackson Hole...)

"faith-based" tax money this guy is getting.....

GARGOYLES!

he does it in a joking way. but it seems like she loves to be in control. i imagine she is probably like Marilyn Quayle.

Per Contintental's website. I punched in similar parameters to theirs, and it would be around 8k for them to fly to Vail for their ski vacation. Those people are no more than entertainers, and the people who enrich them deserve to get ripped off for being too stupid to ask questions.

She sounds like a bitch on wheels...

Gee, if she was a man with dark skin and black hair she would have been dragged off the flight, arrested, or shot.

which i suppose is not impossible, however, i'm betting the overwhelming majority of folks in first on domestic continental flights are there for free, as upgrades for being frequent flyer, i never pay any 8K for domestic first, that would just be silly

i've never heard of any black men being dragged off first, arrested, or shot for not wanting to sit in someone else's unknown liquids, indeed, we would be the first to stand up for black man's right not to be disrespected when paying for first class service, somehow though all women are expected to be servants no matter their social status or what they paid for a ticket, it's okay to assume they are maids?

see how easy you can twist things around when you don't know the facts?

my vote is this is a simple stupid misunderstanding that got blown up out of hand

i once had a flight attendant start yelling at me because i asked for a drink of water, i don't think it makes me a bitch for asking the FA to do something, it doesn't even make the FA a bitch for having a bad day, the truth is, people are people & sometimes they get stressed, it's best just to let it roll off & not read too much into it

Drawn and quartered? Burned at the stake?

The Osteens are probably the least offensive couples around when you talk about preachers. This isn't Tammy Fay or company, folks. They haven't gotten on the Right Wing Hobby Horse to preach the word of BushCo. They just tell people the good news they want to hear; nothing more, nothing less.

I have no idea what happened on that plane, and nobody who wasn't there does either. Lets get back to our regularly scheduled topic of how BushCo is fucking up the world and leave the Osteens alone.

Sheesh.

Sacred Geometry, Cymatics (shape of sound), Light &...Crop Circles.
Topic started by Dover on Jun-24-05 02:33 AM (9 replies)
Last modified by Desertrose on
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=245&topic_id=8460

for "Most Obnoxious Post Directed At Fellow DU'ers?"

No wonder they more or less left this website.

And I guess I WILL end up commenting on how sickening the vitriol on DU is becoming. And it's based on almost no real information.

Thanks for posting it. I missed it the first time around.

What did you think of the comments by lwolf?




Cher

Not willingly, mind you, but after my mother begged and cajoled and guilt-tripped me into going with her. I hated it as much as I thought I would; the service was shallow and lacked any genuine spirituality. I could see right through it all, and I couldn't understand why my normally level-headed mother couldn't. Actually, I do know why - she was in Houston undergoing treatment for cancer and desperate for answers and hope. Dodie Osteen, wife of the elder (now deceased) Rev. Osteen, had "miraculously" recovered from cancer and I guess my mom read a book by her and thus discovered their ministry. When we went to the church, she'd actually just been given good news, that her cancer was in remission and she could go home. During the service, they invited people up to the front of the auditorium to request prayers or share their story and my mom spoke briefly. They then proclaimed "(my mom's name), healed of cancer through the grace of God" or somesuch. I hid in the back and hoped they wouldn't try to get me up there and spout some nonsense since I'm in a wheelchair. I felt so slimy afterwards, and embarassed for my mother. Luckily I don't think that service was taped for TV or anything.

A few months later, my mother's cancer came back and a few months after that, she died. I've hated the Osteen church and their bullshit even more since then. They peddle false hope and package Christocrap for the zoned-out masses, all for their own profit. They take advantage of not only uneducated red-state morons, but vulnerable people like my mother. They're Jim and Tammy Faye for this generation, except that Tammy Faye seems to actually be a sweet, loving person, unlike Victoria Osteen.

Osteen's preaching has often been criticised for being a bunch of lighthearted feelgood crap, from all ends of the political and religious spectrums. It would not be hard for a preacher who holds a sterner world-view to make hay about this and knock him down a few pegs. And the method used will be, "see how he let his wife act. He's too soft"

A paying customer damned sure shouldn't!

Especially in today's world of flying. She's lucky she didn't get shot. ;-)

I wouldn't have sat in the seat!

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3538956.html

"She was just abusive," said Sheila Steele, who said she was sitting behind Victoria Osteen. "She was just like one of those divas."

snip

Steele said Victoria Osteen was upset about liquid on her pull-down tray and asked a flight attendant to have it cleaned. When the attendant, who was carrying paperwork to the cockpit, told her she couldn't do it immediately, Osteen replied, "Fine, get me a stewardess who can," Steele said.

She said Victoria Osteen pushed a flight attendant and tried to get into the cockpit. During the incident, Joel Osteen — who preaches to an estimated 30,000 each weekend — stayed with the couple's two children and did not get involved, Steele said.

snip

Steele said she and other passengers were upset that they had to wait about two hours while the Osteens' baggage was removed from the plane.

I wonder what kind of underwear that sexy, yet angry, woman wears.

It simply cannot be read without forcing a reaction, and often many different and conflicting reactions.

Isn't that something that people have gotten shot for in the past?

I am not advocating violence toward the women, but for any other person this might have been dangerous. At the very least, she might have been taken down. I seem to recall a mentally ill or very disturbed man who was tackled by the passengers of a plane and was accidentally smothered or strangled to death, because he started yelling and moved toward the cockpit. I think it was in 2002. Anyone?

She sounds like a spoiled b*itch with a sense of entitlement bigger than her TX Cheerleader (TM) hair.



Edited for clarity and spelling.

Officials said he said he had a bomb. Witnesses say they never heard the word bomb. I wonder what would have happened if this woman wasn't a celeb and so thought unlikely to be a terrorist.

From planeinsanity.com (September 2001):

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=3741989

According to passenger accounts, the Osteens were sitting in first class. Soon after the plane's door was closed, the FBI says Victoria Osteen was removed following what Continental would call only a disturbance. The Osteens' spokesman confirms it involved a flight attendant, but that's all. However, one passenger tells Eyewitness News she was alerted to the front of the plane when she heard a commotion.

"She violently ran towards the cockpit, scaring everyone around her," said passenger Knicky Van Slyke. "Everyone was terrified about what was going on. And a bunch of flight attendants ran up and had to restrain her. She was banging on the door."

"Of the cockpit?" we asked.

"Yes."
------------
http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou051222_mh_osteenfolo.30e2148.html

Both sides agree the incident started when Mrs. Osteen complained that her seat in first class was wet.


The flight attendant reportedly handed her a cloth to wipe up the mess.

Sources say Victoria Osteen wasn't satisfied with how the flight crew handled the situation and that she then attempted to enter the cockpit to speak to the captain.

A flight attendant stopped her, and the captain escorted Osteen to the jetway where she agreed to take a later flight.
----------

ASK THe CHIMP

provide to them his noodly karmic consequences........

mikey_the_rat

--they'll be skiing for Jeebus

You'd think such a HOLY family would be handing out presents, meals, and housing vouchers to the less fortunate. That's why I NEVER donate to faith based charities (the least trustworthy orgs) Many Colorado vacations are probably happening at the expense of Katrina and Rita victims. People are living in tents and this bunch is flying first class.

Edit for spelling

Lakewood Church Helping at the Astrodome and Other Shelters

Pastor Joel Osteen and Lakewood Church are working with Mayor Bill White, other churches, and relief organizations to provide help for the thousands of Gulf Coast evacuees who are holed up in Houston.

They are RAISING MONEY for hot meals, recruiting volunteers, and gathering supplies and non-perishable food items for hurricane victims.

http://www.elijahlist.com/katrina_aid.htm

**************************************


Guess they had some extra $ for flying first class.

Wouldn't it have been nicer to fly some people coach and reunite hurricane victim's families for the holidays

He lives off his book royalties and donates the rest back to the Church. Why throw the first stone if you don't know them? :shrug:

Osteen doesn't have to look for a whore, he married her.

I grew up in the shadow of Swaggart ministries, he lived a million dollar home, too, and after seeing him, his family, entourage, and office staff throwing money and flying high around town ( hundreds of dollars of booze bought for office parties at the ministries headquarters was one thing I witnessed personally. I sold it to them. Also know a realtor, and a maid with other tales and that's not the stuff that was reported on.) (Bad attitudes happen and money does corrupt once good people/ they were sooo different behind the scenes.)

Trust me on this one.

We all knew Swaggart was going to get it years before it happened, it was just a question of when.

This family sounds just like them.

Edited to say I hope you're not too disappointed, you sound like a nice guy.

Is this a place of intolerance? I'm going to reread Robert A. Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land" He was so right.

Saving souls is secondary

there's far too much intolerance in this world.

ministries for years. They kept covering it and someone kept painting back (every time) until now it's a blotched gray and you can still see what it says.

Anyway I agree with you both.

And I don't even know Osteen, although his wife's behavior(maybe she's having a breakdown) sounds like reports we heard about Swaggart's mansion in his heyday. Abusive, mean, rich, and flaunting their wealth and using words even I don't like to use behind the scenes at their wait staff, maids, and anybody they thought couldn't or wouldn't tell on them.

I wasn't there for the abusive treatment, although I heard about it,(nice drunks in public) but I can guarantee that they all kept well stocked bars in their homes and offices.

Not my style. But he preaches positive thinking, not hate. And he is NOT political.

(I don't think I like his wife very much, though.)

Thare is far too much hate in this world to my way of thinking.

was a little sexist (still love him) but it's been a long time since I read any of them.

let's be friends. ok.

Like I said I really don't know Osteen. I'm just suspious of tv preachers or any other kind, honestly.

He isn't homophobic and misogynistic. He doesn't hate on anyone. Check out this site:


Ole Anthony of the Trinity Foundation, which is the watchdog group that monitors TV preachers, explained that nobody has ever pointed a finger at Joel Osteen and suggested a hint of the kind of improprieties that sent Jim Bakker to jail, or shamed Jimmy Swaggert, or even raised questions about evangelist Binny Hinn.

According to Ole Anthony, "The greatest thing that has caused people to turn away from the church is they see hypocrisy, and he is what he is. What you see is what you get, and I don’t see any hypocrisy in it and I applaud him for that."

The worst anyone has said about Osteen is that he’s more motivational speaker and pep talk giver than a true preacher of the Gospel.
http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/ys_investigations/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15949_3929405,00.html

Osteen scores with me just for not being homophobic.

My dearest best friend of 25 years died this year of HIV related causes and liver damage and you wouldn't believe how mean some so-called Christians in my family have been about it.

He bought all my baby's clothes for the first year of his life and made sure I had food during my whole pregnancy (one all you can eat buffet after the next) when they all turned their pro-life Christian backs on me because I wasn't married.

Now they have the nerve to tell me Gary went to hell for being gay.

I don't think so, and I look at my 18 y/o and know that he wouldn't be the healthy kid he is if it wasn't for my gay friend. My son called him his Aunt Gary or Fairy God mother.

Gary also prayed before every meal I ever ate with him.

He had his problems. He wasn't perfect, but he tried so hard and his belief was so strong.

I think God has a special gay place in heaven for him.

KING: How about issues that the church has feelings about? Abortion? Same-sex marriages?

OSTEEN: Yeah. You know what, Larry? I don't go there. I just ...

KING: You have thoughts, though.

OSTEEN: I have thoughts. I just, you know, I don't think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don't think abortion is the best. I think there are other, you know, a better way to live your life. But I'm not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open for everybody.

KING: You don't call them sinners?

OSTEEN: I don't.

KING: Is that a word you don't use?

OSTEEN: I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don't go down the road of condemning.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.html

Rick Warren claimed he wasn't drawing a salary from his church. It turned out that he was being paid all of it in "housing allowance" as a tax dodge. I wouldn't put that past this guy either. I'd like to see some figures before I believe he's not being paid.

Osteen says in his book that he and his wife Victoria bought and fixed up houses to sell for a profit back in their salad says, which enabled them to build their present house 10 years ago, not from church money.

In fact, the pastor, who admits his 3 million seller book has made him fabulously wealthy, last year stopped taking his $200,000 church salary.

He could call his big house the church parsonage and legally avoid property taxes, but county records show he paid the $25,329 tax bill on the place with his own money.

http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/ys_investigations/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15949_3929405,00.html

he doesn't take money.

That settles it, then.

He didn’t have to, but Osteen released to 7 Action News audited financial reports covering 2 years. They confirm the same conclusion even his critics have acknowledged.

"There is no hint of fraud or wrongdoing or false promises, per se, or inducements to give money. There is none of that in him and I applaud him for that," Olie Anthony says.
http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/ys_investigations/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15949_3927523,00.html

it, anyway? Shouldn't have been too hard to spot. Just look for the Gucci designer bags.

Osteen

Oral Roberts to Richard Roberts

Kenneth Hagin to K Hagin Jr

Pat Robertson to son

etc

etc.

http://www.lakewood.cc/site/PageServer?pagename=letter_from_victoria


Innocent until proven, I always say.

Though I'm an atheist, I've watched some of their services. I believe they're sincere people.

Selling tickets to see him, just like Jesus did. Not.



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