Italy probes US marine for murder over Iraq death

"nervous, inexperienced troop" making a mistake in a war zone amount to murder? Doesn't murder require some actual malice? If Rome is afraid to indict the war criminal, why pick on some poor peon who thought his life was at stake? Are political points worth that? Or is there something else going on?

If someone sets up a checkpoint so that it leads to a death and the Cause of the death was inadequate training, planning or execution of the Road Block, then it can be Manslaughter or even Murder.

To give a Civilian equivalent, when Police set up a Road Block in the US, they MUST be a way for a person to get through the Road Block. The reason for this is that some people will RUN a road block and you must plan accordingly (And the reason they run the Road Block may be do to mental illness, Schizophrenia for example, or just plan panic). If a person dies running such a Police Road Block then the Police who set up the Road Block can be held liable IF THERE WAS NO WAY FOR THE CAR TO GET AROUND THE ROAD BLOCK. If this was GROSS NEGLIGENCE or GROSS RECKLESSNESS, then Murder Charges can be made (Rarely done for Juries just do NOT want to convict Police of Crimes that are a result of the Police doing their duty, even if HOW the Police did they duty was Grossly Negligent or Grossly Reckless).

In Italy you have no jury, Judges make the Decision. European Judge are professionals trained to be Judges from School and work they way up the Judaical system (Unlike the elected/Appointed system of the US). They have they prejudices just like Juries but more likely to find that the Police have committed a Crime than an American Jury.

Thus what the US did in that Road block may be Murder.

Also, while I disagree with the war in Iraq, it is a war zone, and civilian conditions do not apply. I don't think the military wanted people to get around the road block, it might cause the deaths of American soldiers or innocent Iraqi civilians. Also, this incident did not take place in Italy, where is Italy's authority?

I'm not saying it isn't tragic, I'm not saying the war is right, all I'm saying is that people that voluntarily go into a war zone take their lives into their own hands. And, having been in the ARmy, I prefer to defer to the judgment of the man on the scene rather than some insulated jurist with an agenda. Or even without one. Just my opinion

One of the problems of war, are crimes of passion. You see several of your buddies die in front of you, you want revenge, you then kill the people in front of you, even if their are unarmed civilians, women and children (This was especially true whenever a besieged city was taken, the costs to breach the wall so inflamed the men that a massacre almost always followed, thus a city had to surrender once its wall were breached, for if it did not and the walls were forced massacre always followed).

Such crimes of passion, are still war crimes. An Army has to keep its troops in line. On the other hand it is a mitigating circumstance long recognized (Cited even in the Bible). Now they are DELIBERATE WAR CRIMES, for example when a Soldier kills and rob a civilian (Or kills a Civilian NOT in the heat of Combat but under Orders), these are clearly War Crimes. The questions is when does one begin and end? For example A convey is ambushed, the Troops shoot anything in the area, including known Civilian targets AND THEN THE COMMANDER DECIDES NOT ENOUGH BODY SO HE CALLS ON HIS TROOPS TO KEEP ON FIRING EVEN AFTER IT IS CLEAR THE ENEMY HAS LEFT. In that example the Crime of Passion flows into a Cold blooded War Crime. Again that is NOT uncommon in warfare AND A GOOD ARMY MAKES EFFORTS TO DISCIPLINE ITS SOLDIERS SO BOTH TYPES OF WAR CRIMES DO NOT OCCUR.

Thus the problem with the Road block that lead to the death of the Italian Agents. The Italians HAD inform the US Army of their efforts and that they would be going down that road. Thus the Italians had done everything they could to make sure they were NOT killed by US Troops. US Troops in the area knew the Italians were coming. Then (according to the reports I have read on the net) the US Ambassador to Iraq came to the area and set up additional road blocks and it was one of these war blocks that fired on the Italians. If true, than whoever sent the troops to the area without checking with the local Commander violated Command structure AND THE ITALIANS WHO WERE RESPECTING THAT STRUCTURE DIED DO TO THIS VIOLATION. Again I do NOT know if this is true, but if it is THEN WHOEVER ORDERED THOSE ROAD BLOCKS UP ARE GUILTY OF AT LEAST MANSLAUGHTER IF NOT MURDER FOR FAILING TO FOLLOW STANDARD PROCEDURES FOR ROAD BLOCKS IN AN AREA. This is the problem the Italians was complaining of NO ONE WAS HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT ROAD BLOCK WHICH SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN WHERE IT WAS.

Yes, it is HARD decision to make, but someone goof at that road block and I doubt it was the Italians (I doubt it was the soldiers manning the Road Block) but if the above is true, that would make a clear case of Gross neglect.

It's according to the U.S. military that the troops who gunned down Mr. Calipari were nervous and inexperienced. There were several allegations and counterallegations at the time that the Italians were spies or terrorists, were driving too fast, were driving in a menacing manner, and several other excuses that don't seem to have panned out. Falling back on troop nervousness and inexperience sounds like more excuse making.

I for one will be interested to see an investigation of U.S. military actions that is not conducted by the U.S. military.

requires malice aforethought. Manslaughter or negligent homicide I could see. Although, as this was a war zone, the soldiers are entitled to a lot of slack. They are entitled to defend themselves if they think they are in danger.

Just goes to show the futility of war.

There was something else going on...the US tried to assassinate the pair...and accounts at the time suggest this was the case.

THe US wouldn't even let the Italians look at the 'death car' for weeks...yeah right, one nervous guy who aimed right at them and fired hundreds of rounds...

That is why there needs to be an investigation, and not by the US military.

The U.S. press and right-wing blogs are ignoring – or in some cases denying – the serious discrepancies surrounding a deadly U.S. attack on an Italian convoy.

No sooner was CNN's Eason Jordan and the issues he raised about the killing of journalists officially buried by the media than a dramatic new incident forced the issue back into public awareness. His ghost had risen even if his voice remains stilled.

Here we are approaching the second anniversary of the war and Bush was getting such a nice media bounce in the glow of the election coverage. Just yesterday, the Iraq parliament announced it will start work March 16 – freedom was so 'on the march,' breathing down the country's privatized future ...

And then, day after day, and even this morning, more violence by those faceless 'insurgents' (that our media never tells us much about) claims more lives. We rarely hear about the daily violence of the occupation in terms of civilians killed or abuses committed.

...

Today, Italy is holding a jammed state funeral for slain intelligence agent Nicola Calipari, the man Giuliana called her 'liberator.' Tempers are frayed. Giuliana is operated on to remove shrapnel. She holds a press conference to express her belief that the shooting may have been intentional. Bush phones Berlusconi. The White House dismisses her as a communist. You can't make this up.



http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/21427/