Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Writers issue cartoon row warning

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 03:13 PM
Original message
Writers issue cartoon row warning
Salman Rushdie is among a dozen writers to have put their names to a statement in a French weekly paper warning against Islamic "totalitarianism".

The writers say the violence sparked by the publication of cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad shows the need to fight for secular values and freedom.

...

Almost all of those who have signed the statement have experienced difficulties with Islamic militancy first-hand, says the BBC's Caroline Wyatt in Paris.

They include Dutch MP and filmmaker Ayaan Hirsi Ali and exiled Bangladeshi writer Taslima Nasreen.

"After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new global threat: Islamism," the manifesto says.

"We, writers, journalists, intellectuals, call for resistance to religious totalitarianism and for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values for all."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4763520.stm

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
wtbymark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. it should also include Christian extremism n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. With the exception of attacking abortion doctors
Edited on Wed Mar-01-06 03:26 PM by Mizmoon
and the nearly incomprehensible (to me) situation in Ireland, I am hard pressed to think of any major violence that Christians as a group have caused in modern times. They try hard to make their values mainstream, but so do we in the secular realm. Am I forgetting some mayhem they've caused?

And Bush doesn't count. We all know he's the fakest Christian there is.

edited to correct punctuation
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. When a three-star general, in the highest echelon of
Pentagonian power stands up in a Christian church and tells all the Muslims in all the world, "My God is bigger than your god!", I think that you can count Bush and his current crusade. This "war on terror" is a very thinly veiled war on Islam - and most Muslims "get" that... Christians can't site the "two-thousand" year existence of Christianity as a demonstration of its validity (as many Christians do) and out of the other side of their mouths say that the atrocities committed by Christians over that "two-thousand" year history don't count. Christianity is just as bloody a religion as is Islam - it's just in a relatively quiet period right now...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Well, we live right now
not during the Crusades.

I don't think a general who talks out of his butt compares.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. George Bush:
"This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take awhile."

We live right now, during a crusade.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. *sigh* Bush is a moron who doesn't know what that means
and as far I know this isn't about Jerusalem.

For Bush it's about oil and money and whatever else it is that evil fucks think about.

For us it's about ... lordy, so much more. So much it makes me tired to even think about typing it. I want to say things about freedom for women, and freedom of religion (including the right not to practice one), and freedom from poverty for the downtrodden.

I'm going to go off on a tangent. You know what the most disappointing thing about this whole sitatation is for me? The abandonment of Afghanistan. I supported that invasion - yes I did. I admit it. It was because I had dreams of showing the ME what freedom and democracy could bring - rebuilding them, making them a real nation, a proud nation, a democratic nation even if they wanted their mullahs to run things. For me it's a total heartbreaker and I feel like a fool for ever having believed that our government would do the right thing there.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Serbia, Rwanda, Germany, Italy, Hungary, Poland...
Lots of Christians have engaged in genocide during the past century, and their churches were, for the most part, pretty silent about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Silence is a sin, but not an aggressive act
And as I recall Pope John Paul was pretty vocal about the violence that has gone on in the world.

As far as engaging in genocide, I am hard pressed to blame Christians alone for committing acts like certain Islamists are perpetrating on in Darfur, for example.

Rowanda was tribal, not religious.

What are you talking about with regard to Germany and Poland? World War II? Was that a religious war? As I recall that was mostly about race and power. Jews were killed for the same reason they have always been killed - they are easy scapegoats.

Serbia is the one I know least about. If there is an aspect to that that can be blamed on Christianity I'd appreciate if you'd enlighten me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yes, I remember the Monty Python "Life of Brian" riots well.....
I believe many shrubberies were destroyed in that riot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Don't forget all those MIGHTY TREES cut down
with......




A Herring!


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Now I'm going to have to post a quote
Edited on Wed Mar-01-06 03:32 PM by Mizmoon
Brian: I'm not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand? Honestly!
Girl: Only the true Messiah denies His divinity.
Brian: What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah!
Followers: He is! He is the Messiah!
Brian: Now, fuck off!
(silence)
Arthur: How shall we fuck off, O Lord?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Follow the Gourd!!!!
:beer:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. It does. It's about a struggle between "democrats and theocrats."
"It is not a clash of civilizations nor an antagonism of West and East that we are witnessing, but a global struggle that confronts democrats and theocrats."


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Here is the full text of the statement (from Jyllands-Posten)
After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new totalitarian global threat: Islamism.
We, writers, journalists, intellectuals, call for resistance to religious totalitarianism and for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values for all.

The recent events, which occurred after the publication of drawings of Muhammed in European newspapers, have revealed the necessity of the struggle for these universal values. This struggle will not be won by arms, but in the ideological field. It is not a clash of civilisations nor an antagonism of West and East that we are witnessing, but a global struggle that confronts democrats and theocrats.

Like all totalitarianisms, Islamism is nurtured by fears and frustrations. The hate preachers bet on these feelings in order to form battalions destined to impose a liberticidal and unegalitarian world. But we clearly and firmly state: nothing, not even despair, justifies the choice of obscurantism, totalitarianism and hatred. Islamism is a reactionary ideology which kills equality, freedom and secularism wherever it is present. Its success can only lead to a world of domination: man's domination of woman, the Islamists' domination of all the others. To counter this, we must assure universal rights to oppressed or discriminated people.

We reject « cultural relativism », which consists in accepting that men and women of Muslim culture should be deprived of the right to equality, freedom and secular values in the name of respect for cultures and traditions. We refuse to renounce our critical spirit out of fear of being accused of "Islamophobia", an unfortunate concept which confuses criticism of Islam as a religion with stigmatisation of its believers.

We plead for the universality of freedom of expression, so that a critical spirit may be exercised on all continents, against all abuses and all dogmas.

We appeal to democrats and free spirits of all countries that our century should be one of Enlightenment, not of obscurantism.

12 signatures

Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Chahla Chafiq
Caroline Fourest
Bernard-Henri Lévy
Irshad Manji
Mehdi Mozaffari
Maryam Namazie
Taslima Nasreen
Salman Rushdie
Antoine Sfeir
Philippe Val
Ibn Warraq



http://www.jp.dk/indland/artikel:aid=3585740/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I applaud this and agree with the essence....
We plead for the universality of freedom of expression, so that a critical spirit may be exercised on all continents, against all abuses and all dogmas.

We need to see more such response from writers and intellectuals to do something with this situation, and not let it go underground until a next outburst. IMHO.

DemEx

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. We should think about whether the current anti-intellectual, anti-critical
climate in the U.S. dampens our "critical spirit" here as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Absolutely......I see the same oppressive tendencies
via religious conservatism and right wing dogma working in the US.

DemEx
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-01-06 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I agree with that too eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. I think that's a good point.
In fact, I think we've had an anti-intellectual bias in the US for a long time now. But it seems to have surfaced in a big way since 2000.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 11th 2024, 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC