Haditha Response: (130k) U.S. Troops to Receive 'Core Values' Training

How about ending stop loss and letting them go home?

pardon my language but bullshit. bull pucky bull hockey bull shit.

After all, it's already in its last throes, and I think this training really means we've turned the corner.

(I hope I don't need the :sarcasm: smilie on this one)

The US military needs to be trained to not kill unarmed men women and children?

If this kind of thing occurred at the hands of Iran and Iraq's armies during the Iran/Iraq War, or by any number of African armies, the troops who committed the atrocities would either a) be given a medal; or b) disciplined for not killing more civilians.

and their very presence is why our society is not one of savages. But that doesn't apply to those that break them.

responsible for the atrocities are being prosecuted. Probably many more get away with it than get caught, but the fact that there is an enforceable Code of Conduct is what makes US military different from the examples the poster I was responding to mentioned.

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after the pentagon became defenders of torture, who knows what the military is capable of?

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You managed to squeeze in every left-wing, pseudo-intellectual "America is the real oppressor" talking point there could possibly be.

Are you sure you're on the right site?

How shocking to see you parroting Jean Kirkpatrick.

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That's a core value doncha' know.

Unbelievable. Maybe somebody needs to give these assholes a values lesson on what happens when you try to occupy foreign countries, it isn't like we haven't got plenty of examples.

that it's wrong to murder children, you shouldn't have been allowed in the military in the first place.

:cry:

Don't misunderstand me, if what is being reported reaaly took place these men need to be found guilty of murder and suffer the consequences. But let's remember that the marine company of which these soldiers were members had been in Iraq a long time, facing the possibility of death every day, possibly seeing friends killed in horrible ways. And yet this company had an exemplary record up to this point. The men responsible had just seen a comrade killed -- actually cut it two -- from the explosion of an IED. Some (8) of the Iraqis killed were denied compensation by the US higher-ups because they were reported as being insurgents. Thus maybe not all of the Iraqis killed were innocents, and maybe the soldiers responsible knew that. Human nature is so contrary, being capable of incredible resiliency, and yet so fragile. There for the grace of God go I. Who knows what I would be capable of doing under the wrong circumstances. Attrocities are a fact of war, particularly wars where the combatants can't be easily identified. Again, I am in no way excusing it, but I have compassion for humans put in such a no win situation. My anger is reserved for the top brass who put these guys in such a situation. How can Rumsfield say that such a war could not be anticipated.

"Some (8) of the Iraqis killed were denied compensation by the US higher-ups because they were reported as being insurgents. Thus maybe not all of the Iraqis killed were innocents, and maybe the soldiers responsible knew that."

Now I get it.

The "insurgents" who are fighting against the foreign invaders and occupiers are not "innocent" but the invaders themselves who murder the wives, mothers and children of the "insurgents" are "innocent".

Thanks for the clarification.

The ones who teach KillKillKill? How about to the ones who keep sending these troops back for one more go round? Or maybe GW will write another signing statement and make it all go away.
:grr:

the core values training program. They should view the slide presentation with vignettes that highlight the importance of adhering to legal, moral and ethical standards on the battlefield.

Nothing new at least to me. Started back in 1998-2000 when soldiers were required to carry an additional dog tag with the "Core Army Values" and a credit card like card in your wallet. If I can remember there were 7 or so values (Courage, discipline, ... blah, blah. blah...ya-da, ya-da, ya-da...) It started cause of a few cases of high ranking officers and enlisted personell who were caught sexually harassing females, etc.

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

I'm genuinely curious as to what the content of the presentation would be. Not just in the "oh, ha ha, this should be good" sense; my inner educator's interested in what they'll say is important, and how they'll present it to these guys.

they have to invent a programme from nothing to tell soldiers about the importance of human life. I couldn't think of one other professional army from a democratic country that would have to do this.

war zones and trouble spots are dangerous volatile places where, if not careful, unneccessary deaths will occur. Why on earth is this kind of training not tied irrevocably to the american soldiers training.

the main problem of course, is that they were put in Iraq to begin with.

This is so unbelievably ridiculous even by BushCo standards.
A slide show reminding troops about civilized conduct will do very little
to treat the institutionalized rot inflicted by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Miller, etc.

"Thats bullshit man!"

:sarcasm:

to emphasize "professional military values, the importance of disciplined professional conduct in combat" AND explain what to expect of Iraqi culture? I mean, how are they handling the Kurds, Shi-ites and Sunnis with a bit of other groups thrown in?

I can't even remember what the hell scandal we were defraying back then (Plame, I believe, in its early incarnations) but I well remember the White House staff having to go to values training sessions. How did those work out for us, anyway?

Wonder what that looks like. Probably will include abstinance training. :sarcasm:

We're supposed to be the good guys here and what these guys did, and it doesn't matter how many of them there were, will only make an already horrible situation worse. This is not something that we can recover from.

So where do we go from here? Pass out more candy to the kids?

Thanks George. Your war to rearrange the furniture in the mideast just made a mess of the arrangement.

Mz Pip
:dem:

...(T)he chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said there are now two investigations into the killings..."One is to find out what happened. The other is to find out why did it take us so long to find out what happened..."

...(S)aid Gen. Jack Keane, "...(P)eople most likely in the chain of command who had knowledge and should have taken action appropriately did not, and they will be under investigation for the failure to do that."

:eyes:
rocknation

How about we start there?

Hekate

...who got the training contract.

Why don't some of you creative types create the slideshow for them so they don't have to go to the trouble ;-)

Steph

rotten to the core.:(

By PATRICK QUINN, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The top U.S. general in Iraq on Thursday ordered American commanders to conduct core values training on moral and ethical standards on the battlefield.

<SNIP>

"As military professionals, it is important that we take time to reflect on the values that separate us from our enemies," Chiarelli said. "The challenge for us is to make sure the actions of a few do not tarnish the good work of the many."

The training will be conducted in units over the next 30 days and was aimed at reinforcing training service members received prior to their deployment, according to the statement.

"Of the nearly 150,000 Coalition Forces presently in Iraq, 99.9 percent of them perform their jobs magnificently every day," Chiarelli said.

<SNIP>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060601/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_us_military_3

The ethics training should start at the top.

ethics and morals training? It's time to get the troops out of there and into counseling.

In simple English, that would be let's teach honesty. (Yes, business companies are big on this.)

it's not one of our core values to shoot women and children who are on their knees begging for their lives.
We can sell dictators poison gas to kill them.
We can bomb them from the air.
We can starve them and cut off their medicine.
But for God sakes remember your core values.
:sarcasm:

responsible for sending the kids in the first place? Or is this authorised through the chain of command, which would make sense considering the administrations love of torture and refusal to sign on to the ICC.

instead of being sold the "skipping through the flowers tossed at their feet" story ...

in the WH, just a slap on the wrist huh, after murdering those innocent civilians. disgraceful.

and after 3 years of occupation and after what 40,000 civilians being killed? to give ethic classes to soldiers not to kill civilians this is disgusting.

to shoot brown people, no amount of diversity training is going to fix the problem. In fact, I believe the military welcomes those without a conscience because they are willing to do the "hard tasks." It's only when this kind of thing becomes public that the top brass even cares because of the embarassment factor.

all the more reason why they have to hold those on top accountable, I can dream huh? This has to stop, but I guess it won't since they are pulling troops from Kuwait, and putting them in Iraq. It just never seems to end huh? This regime has no remorse and couldn't care less.

They just love "sensitivity training".

Hope * is first in line. He needs a remedial course quickly. Nice job raising this little sociopath Babs.

The military can't punish the individual Marines involved until the situation has been fully investigated.

So, in the meantime, they have to come up with something to placate the public, and this is it.

Trouble with the employees? Staff morale down? Then it's time for STAFF DAY!!!

Get the employees together for a touchy-feelie retreat. Discuss the corporate mission statement and how to achieve the organization's goals and objectives. And don't forget the breakout sessions that will give participants the tools and strategies they need to succeed!

:puke:

It boggles the mind to think CEOs get paid anything, much less the highest compensation in the company, for doing such stunningly pointless bullshit. I wonder if our troops will receive special recognition certificates for not butchering civilians, or maybe little tin lapel pins with smiley faces, and afterwards, everyone can hold hands in a circle and sing kumbaya. :eyes:

especially brown ones... in my corporate miltary training class

that the problem spreads beyond "a few bad apples".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1788028,00.html
12.30pm
Moral training for US troops in Iraq

David Fickling and agencies
Thursday June 1, 2006

US soldiers in Iraq have been ordered to take extra training in moral and ethical standards, it emerged today.

The move comes amid growing concern over the fallout from the alleged massacre of 24 civilians in the town of Haditha last November.

General George Casey - the highest-ranking US general in Iraq - ordered the training two days after US troops shot dead a pregnant mother and her cousin as they travelled to a maternity hospital.

.......
A military spokesman said troops had fired at the car, which was being driven by the pregnant woman's brother, in an attempt to "disable" it.

Lieutenant general Peter Chiarelli, the commander of Multinational Corps Iraq, said the ethics training, to take place over the next 30 days, would reinforce the education that troops receive before being sent into battle.

for posting the Geneva Convention rules in each cell wall? Here is the real culprit:

President Bush determined that the Geneva Conventions did not apply at all to the conflict with Al-Qaeda and that, although they applied to the conflict with the Taliban, none of the Taliban would be entitled to prisoner of war status. The order does not mention the Geneva Conventions’ requirements regarding the treatment of detained persons who do not have POW status (“protected persons”), nor does it mention any international human rights treaties governing treatment of detainees, such as the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/08/19/usdom9248.htm

from nuns to Jesuits. None of them told me it was OK to shoot people. My parents gave me buckets of moral training. I was a good kid.

Then I went into the Marines. They didn't teach me to commit attrocities. They did disinhibit me from violence.

I did some shit that my mom, the nuns, and the Jesuits would have thought was awful... nothing like wilfully shooting women and kids... but shit that I'd been taught was wrong during my whole upbringing.

I am thankful that the NCOs around me kept me from doing some really horrible things.

What does it mean that kids with a moral upbringing have to be controlled - led - NOT to commit attrocities?

Does anybody think maybe we need to examine the concept of the US in modern war? Maybe we just can't commit to war and hang on to our moral sense.

Maybe we have to choose between controlling an empire and keeping our humanity. Maybe the two of them are mutually exclusive.

The country is losing it's soul.... and this from an atheist.