Venezuela Receives Russian Assault Rifles

Venezuela on Saturday received 30,000 Russian-made assault rifles, the first shipment in a deal for 100,000 rifles.
Defense Minister Orlando Maniglia said the AK-103 rifles and ammunition were being unloaded in Puerto Cabello, about 68 miles west of Caracas. Russia will deliver the remaining 70,000 rifles in two shipments, in August and October, Maniglia told government media. The rifles will replace aging Belgian FAL rifles bought in the 1950s, according to a statement from the vice president's office.

The army's commander, Gen. Raul Baduel, said Friday that Venezuela, facing a U.S. ban on arms sales, planned to set up factories to produce more of the rifles and ammunition. President Hugo Chavez, who accuses the U.S. of plotting an invasion against his oil-rich country, has struck defense deals worth an estimated $2.7 billion to modernize the Venezuelan military, turning to countries like Russia and Spain as suppliers.

Venezuela recently purchased 15 Russian military helicopters and is also considering buying Sukhoi fighter jets and other Russian planes. Washington, citing Chavez's close ties to Iran and Cuba, announced in May it would block new U.S. arms sales to the country.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5863539,00.html

The body of Alcede Jackson rests under a blanket outside his New Orleans home. An epitaph appears in the sign above


I suppose the poverty in the ninth ward is less important to the chimpanzee.

Why attack Chavez when Negroponte is out to asssassinate him

It was U.S. supported leaders that kept the people in poverty in the first place.

This gun story and "could have bought bread for his people" won't get anyone's attention, let alone convince them Chavez is a bad guy.

You should give Bush his money back.

:rofl:

:rofl:

:loveya:

And that's not even counting the continuing interest payments for past wars financed through defecit spending; something like half the budget goes to paying for the USA's previous and current wars, through bond maturation and additional social costs of empire.

We might want to apply those high-minded sentiments at home before lambasting Venezuela for its defense budget -- $2 billion, last I heard, about 2/3 of the annual military spending by its increasingly hostile neighbor, Colombia.

I probably costs about $400 to make one of those AK-103s. It really isn't hard to make one in terms of manufacturing or materials. If you can make a civilian-legal version of a military assault rifle, you can make the real thing for only a few dollars more.

You can get a new US-made, civilian-legal AR-15 (military designation: M-16) for about $800 or so. The labor in Russia is cheaper and the AKs are made to looser tolerances than AR-15s. The reason they are so hideously expensive here in the States is because of market demand. There is a very limited number of fully-automatic weapons in legal circulation. A legal folding-stock AK-47 lists on one site for $15,700!

So anyway, 100,000 x $400 = $40,000,000.

It costs like $15 to pump a barrel of crude out of the ground, so you wind up with a profit of some $57 per barrel on the open market. So it's like 700,000 barrels of crude. Venezuela pumps some 3.3 million barrels per day, so it takes them about 5 hours to pay for the rifles.

Which is more that can be said for any of the opposition parties' candidates to date!

Good job.

Or was there some other point to the picture you posted.

PROOF on how utterly groundless and contemptable your claim is:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1368957

Read it an suffer!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

The Gulf Coast?

Venezuelans have more social services than we do.

Unless you can provide a link proving otherwise.

In one of his books which I regrettably cannot identify now, historian John Keegan estimated that there are over 100 million Kalashnikov-based rifles on the planet, far more than any other firearm. The AK (-47, -74, -101, and -103, AKM, and others built round the world) is much beloved in developing nations because of its simple construction (early versions included parts made from stamped sheet metal, about as simple as one can get) and its ability to still perform under truly appalling conditions. They'll still function when caked in mud and covered in dust. The AK has been the weapon most commonly faced by American servicemen around the globe since the 1950s, and it's the weapon of choice for any guerrilla force.

The AK-103 has returned to the 7.62mm round, which can punch a hole in most body armor and if it doesn't it will still knock the person underneath it flat on his ass. It can also, as I learned to my personal dismay recently, puncture the side armor of an M-114 and kill occupants inside.

Wherever trouble is plentiful, there is an AK somewhere in the mix.

I'm sure those who use AK's are kinder and gentler.

and now you're asking me some kind of cryptic, sarcastic question? Of course nobody is kinder and gentler when when assault rifles are being used, no matter what the country of origin.

It's not my fault you were dead ass wrong. A simple "oops, you're right" would have sufficed.

The type of people who compile and keep these records are notorious liars.

I became disgusted with the asinine body counts (ghouls) more than 30 years ago and have seen what assault rifles of various manufacture (including single action antiques) do to the human body. Even more stupid than body counts was the practice of counting discarded rifles in absence of a body (the assumption was they dropped the rifle to carry the body).

Russian arms are cheaper more plentiful, Western arms more accurate. Who cares quality vs quantity?


OOPS You're right does not matter when you are dead, wounded, maimed if done in by quality or quantity.

You completely ignored the original issue and wandered around on unrelated rant. You posted something untrue, I and another poster called you on it, you refuse to accept that. Never admit you're wrong! Right out of the RW playbook!

"Never admit you're wrong! Right out of the RW playbook!" Keep taking your own advice.


:hi:

Had they stayed home, instead of being pawns of warmongering American Presidents, they would have lived long and productive lives.

Since they don't have that choice.

and many of them believe, as General Boykin does, that they are in Iraq for good old Jesus.

in ANG and was compelled to go to Bosnia. This was after the gulf war and in a time of peace. Not a bad thing, but they did not give out a form saying "check this box if you want to go some place where people may shoot you".

If I had not left when I did I could have been there.

Point is the armed forces are CIVILIAN controlled. If you have a problem with the armed forces blame civilians. Vote to change them out. That is what I plan to do..

The American Republic is long dead, supplanted by an evil faith-based empire in which the military are relegated to colonial duties.

We now have chaplains actively proselytizing the troops and spreading their sectarian filth throughout the ranks, a complete break with the historical role of the chaplaincy.

The military does nothing quickly. There are ingrained ways of thoughts. The civilian head may change but the military basically changes very slowly.

For example there will always be people in the ANG to draw triple pension. retire from active duty, pension one, draw pay for ang, work as a federal employee or state employee and benefits were good. Lots of older experienced guys in my unit. Very calm and intolerant of bullshit. This has not changed I presume. These guys have no interest in fucking off and no interest in increasing their chances of getting killed.

I would suggest talking to some active duty folks to get a better idea. I have found that most people fall into two groups. People who really do not want to go and go anyway, and people who are career and don't want to go but do their jobs well. No one I have met really wanted to go. However most of the people I know are older (25+) and are combat engineers with various jobs.

IG's reputation is STERLING.

Can't say that about you, tho.

that can't be substantiated.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1220781,00.html

Or, if you prefer a link from a place more to your political liking:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/17/wboyk17.xml

Glad to be of service. Now, if you're talking about something else that6 was said, feel free to point out exactly what it was. Have a nice day.

The disclosures will doubtless be seized on by Muslim critics as proof that the US-led war on terrorism is a crusade against Islam. It is a charge that Mr Bush has worked hard to refute.
(snip)

I felt my eyes were going to fall out of my face! _Bush has wirked haaarrrrdd to refute that charge, huh? Oh, BOY!



So typical for a Hollinger publication. What a bunch of journalists, heh?

and the general disrespect for the military.

No, wait, don't tell me -- all the people who spout such "holy war" drivel are NOT in the military except the "good" general, right?

Venezuela is doing that for George Bush. South America has a long history of arms races. Notice they are not buying locally from say Brazil.

Please. Brazil may be great for a lot of things, but if you need guns, the very best ones are made in Russia or Austria.

The Brazilian assault rifle is a licensed FL FAN much better than anything produced by the Russians.

The Tank Osorio EE-T1 is excellent, they really would like to sell them.

See link: http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/EE-T1-Osorio.htm

I find your comment odd, the AK-103's #1 advantage is weight saving, that said Brazil can't export their licenced products and take the market away from FN.

The tank was indeed a tragic loss, there are talks of restarting it with Argentina, Brazil and Venezuela,

Venezuela is welcome to buy whatever they want, what I am saying is give it time there will be an arms race in South America.

I really doubt Bush will rediscover the Monroe Doctrine anytime soon, they can leave that to the next selected (as opposed to elected) Republican administration. South America has had its share of regional wars. Once the United States is kicked out of the Middle East, they just may rediscover the American Hemisphere. At that time there will be a demand for more than assault rifles, however, large parts of South America is not exactly tank country.

From testing all of their MOAB's, or nuking the place until it's as flat as a glass tabletop? These theives really scare the shit out of me in their lack of decency.

Anything which can be used as an excuse would probably serve. As we know, they can always say, "That's what we thought at the time."

They can make up any nonsense at all, now, and proceed as if it were the truth. There's no one who can keep them from it, once they decide to involve this country in wide scale slaughter for their own purposes.

The story I heard is that Brazilian gunmaker Taurus got hold of chunks of the Graf Spee, which scuttled itself in the Rio del Plata outside of Montevideo. They then took that fine German steel and started making pistols out of it. Don't know if it's true--there are plans to raise the ship and James Cameron is supposedly filming the operation, but then again it doesn't take much of a pocket battleship to make a whole lot of pistols.

made. The US troops in Iraq are using as many AK-47s as any other weapon. The bastard works. Good weather, bad weather it works. Jungle or desert it works.

Chavez is doing what is best for his country unlike our leaders.

Too bad we over think the plumbing, it makes it easier to stop up the drain.

"the best diplomat is a fully charged phaser bank"

at least regular infantry are not allowed to carry non issue weapons. Big no no.

That being said I would rather carry an m16 given the choice between the two.

3rd world soldiers have a problem cleaning weapons. The ak works dirty, because it has loose tolerances. This lets it work dirty but makes it less accurate.

However the biggest factor is the ak spray. The safety on an ak goes from safe to full to semi. The m16 is opposite. The ak has significant recoil so the spray and pray shoot from the hip method fails.

The m16 works well has low recoil and is accurate. The 556 round will do its intended job. 3 shots that are pretty much line of sight to 200 yards are effective.

Petro dollars at work here..

They all carried AK's at least a few times during patrols along with their M4's and M16's, or picked up discarded ones as back-up weapons they carried in their Hummers.

as an engineer I can tell you unless the rules have changed carrying anything other than your issued weapon was not kosher in the ANG or regular army. I guess it would depend on the CO enforcing regs.

Spec ops carries them if they are going native. guys take them and keep them around for souvenirs. However carrying it could get you shot. I can tell you the last thing I would want to do is carry an extra weapon around. It would be heavy and could prevent me from getting to my rifle.

I found a nice tokarev pistol I wanted to sneak back but the DD and threatened jail time fro bringing weapons back stopped me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-103

That being said, I bet alot of other S.Am. countries arent going to let this pass unnoticed

and some of those countries might even line up and place orders when the Russian designed munitions plants are up and running in Venezuela.

We had better invade them real quick before they get Bullets too!

I guess when you refuse to sell folks stuff they tend to go find some other supplier. Funny how it works that way.

can both eat and defend their country.

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but Chavez is probably more concerned with death squads and such sneaking across the border from Colombia as the fascist scum there is likely to soon be "re-elected".

Maybe a better question is, how much bread could we have bought with what we paid for that POS?

:hi:

Iraq demonstrated that while air power may destroy large emplacements, it takes troops on the ground to actually topple and secure a country. If the carrier could do it alone, we wouldn't need an army.

An AK may never sink a carrier, but they can wreak havoc on a soldier. Even body armor can't stop a 7.62 at close combat range...a 7.62mm round can punch a hole though a 4" concrete wall.

Are we winning in Iraq yet?

Multi-billion dollar aircraft carriers, huge tanks and supersonic fighter jets are proving next to worthless in Iraq because they can't be used effectively against guerrilla warfare, just as we saw in Vietnam. Venezuala would simply resort to guerrilla war from the jungles, just like countless other Latin American forces have against a more powerful foe.

Sadly.

While it is obvious that Venezuela could not withstand seaborne and airborne attacks from us, we would still need boots on the ground to take the country, where those rifles will become effective. And how many years would our troops be within range of those AK-103s? I'd rather not go there.

Besides, if Chavez is pissing off Bush, he can't be ALL bad, can he?

kids throwing rocks.

Get Colin Powell to the UN, STAT!

if the media reported every arms deal they wouldn't have room to report anything else.

:)

spent writing about them.

I'd say it's very "telling".

"Rubber bands which can be used to launch spitballs or painfully snapped against the skin of our troops sent in to restore order."

seems a little bit like the naive Lincoln Brigaders of the Spanish Civil War. Those Americans went to Spain to fight Franco on behalf of the Spanish Republic, thinking it was all simple matter of fascism vs. democracy, good guy vs. bad guy. But it was infinitely more complex than that, and the Lincoln Brigaders found themselves commanded by Soviet political officers, sent by Stalin, who were given the authority to execute Republican troops almost at will, for such "crimes" as lack of zeal for Communism.

Despite this outrageous situation, the Lincoln Brigades managed to delude themselves that the Stalinist political officers were somehow "right" for shooting people in the back of the head. The Chavez fans seem to have a similar capacity for self-delusion.

Soviet political officers? I have heard of aviation and tank specialists like Malinovsky and Kobets but can you name at least one political officer there?

If you knew your Spanish Civil War history (and it doesn't look like you do), you would know the name of Andre Marty, French communist personally selected by Stalin to weed out "Trotskyites" and "counterrevolutionaries" within the ranks of the International Brigades. He's the one who supervised the network of commisars assigned to each unit of the Brigades.

For those who want to know more about the Spanish Civil War.

Franco fans will not be pleased: www.alba-valb.org/index.html

Who else? Pinochet? The Shah? Suharto? Videla? The Apartheid gang? Stroessner? Somoza?

"Infinitely more complex", my butt.

something besides lame insults...

:rofl:

Your insults towards us are very common in bratty children who do not get their way.

So now, not only is Hugo Chavez a dictator, a fascist, a totalitarian, a communist, a despot and a punk, he is now a Stalinist political officer who shoots people in the back of the head. Thanks for the added clarification.





You have no credibility whatsoever.

...but this purchase doesn't seem unreasonable or disturbing in any way.

Chavez has a right, even a responsiblity, to keep the Venezuelan military strong - both in the short and long term.

Nothing wrong with a decision to move to a more reliable source of equipment and spare parts.

oh the wrongs of providing services and means of income for all citizens!

But first they need to commit a petty crime so they can get into a nice privatized prison system so they can live it up!

Hey, having the highest per capita prison population in the entire world's nothing to sneeze at! We're number one!

something to think about-

People seem to forget that other nations want to defend themselves, too. And they can no longer depend on our military being benign towards other countries.

Remember how BushCorp was freaking out because Iran dared to purchase shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles?

They are perfectly fine with the lost of real self-respect, and deserving the respect of people in other countries.

They'd rather be feared by stealing U.S. elections and getting control of our resources, and all the weapons.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I don't think I'm wrong when I say we are not going to invade Venezuela any time soon or in the distant future. We've had a communist nation 100 miles from our shores for 46 years and they are nothing more than an annoyance especially since the naval blockade ended.

This Chavez is a nut and its only a matter of time before an uprising by the people puts his head on a spike. Just deserts for dictators.

"only a matter of time before an uprising by the people puts his head on a spike"?

What makes you think so?

Oh, I forget we're all "loony leftists" here at DU.

Care to rephrase that?

...should have Armed Forces -- go suck a rock, morons. No one is buying that extremely worn-out fallacy. Go fawn over a Donald Rumsfeld pic or something and leave the people with IQs over 70 alone. Blockheads.

:rofl:

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

I'll bet the wise man who said that is their inspiration.

:rofl:

Boil your lie down to a simple slogan and repeat every chance you get. Eventually it will become accepted as truth.

I think this is part of why Republicans can market themselves so well. Many of their planks are quick and simplistic sound bites, which go well on a bumper sticker. Democrats, who see things like conditional events and shades of grey, have a harder time doing it. Although, the shear evilness of BushCorp makes things easier. http://www.evolvefish.com has some great stickers.

Russian made anti-ship and anti-aircraft missiles.

It's pretty hard to fault the man- considering that Bush & Co. already attempted a coup against him.

It is now in Venezuela's best intrest for us to attack Iran. I wonder how Chavez will be able to cause pull that off?

I can actually see Kim Jong Il and Chavez meeting secretly to frame Iran for something. Something like the Axis of Evil Political Action Committee (AXEPAC).

and he intends to see his people protected. I can't wait to hear about the first right wing death squads that get rounded up and executed. There is NOT going to be another repeat of the 80's style genocide in V. EVEN IF I HAVE TO GO FIGHT MY OWN COUNTRIES PROXY MURDERS SO HELP ME I WILL.

As soon as they get finished up in Iraq you can bet veterans of all the dirty wars will be lining up on the V border.

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