Apple shuts down Indian support center (Dell to expand to 20,000)

Apple has decided to shut down its fledgling technical support center in India after only one month. Apple informed its employees May 29 of the decision to lay off all 30 staff, according to the Times of India newspaper.

snip...

Dell announced earlier this year that it would double the number of staff in India to 20,000 over the next three years. Most of the new jobs at Dell India are in customer support.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/06/05/appleindia/index.php

Ex Dell Technical Specialist 1995-2001

customer support were just great. :sarcasm:

My Boston accent and their so-called english were a great mix.....neither of us could understand the other. What cracked me up was their phony phone names.....Bill and Donna....give me a freakin' break.

I remember reading about one place in the US where everyone said their name was 'Chris'. They do that in part to avoid having angry customers chase them down individually.

Some places have representitives give their real names - many do not, both here and overseas.

in olden days :) used to have chair names. Whoever was sitting in a particular chair took on the name of that chair.

I said.. tell me your real name....:) It was Prakash

adds to making the communication even better!!!:sarcasm:

I won't even bother with customer support from India anymore.
We cannot communicate period!

Under an agreement with Dell, all federal government support is handled out of Dell's headquarters in Texas.

So many Halliburtons, so little time.

If customer service and support are important issues to big companies, why the hell do they continue to hire people who can't speak clearly? I can understand having support people who are capable of speaking different languages, but if the person calling can't understand them, there's an immediate communication issue. The customer calling should not be expected to have an interpreter handy to explain what is being said on the other end of the line.

As a consumer, I find it very frustrating to be presented with someone I cannot understand, after I've run the gauntlet of "press 1 for English, 2 for Espanol..." and held on for 10 minutes waiting to speak with someone.

I remember companies that force me to do this, and I do business with their competitors whenever possible.

I would never buy a Dell computer, because of this and because a friend who repairs them has told me they are junk, especially the cheapo systems you can buy at Wal-Mart. Somehow, that revelation wasn't a big surprise to me... :eyes:

couldn't care less. And they'll just make up stuff to get rid of you.

And there is no way to register a complaint with the company so that issues get resolved. Part of customer service is working on the common problems that customers have and fixing them so that future customers don't have that problem. The attitude of too many computer companies is that if you have a problem, well, it's because you're stupid, it couldn't possibly be our product.

You can lump Earthlink in with Dell.

Was the absolute WORST customer service experience I have ever had in my life!

Kept losing our DSL connection and tried for over a month to get it corrected.
They hung up on us several times, made snide remarks, etc......

Finally, when they wouldn't even let us drop them, my husband was yelling at them and threatening them on the phone. And hubby is normally a very calm, rational person. It was insane.


Total assholes!

but not anymore.

I will never buy another Dell, and I looked into Apple and I can't afford them. My Dell is six years old now and needs replaced but the Mac costs too much.

My mac gives me hardly any problems. My pc gives me lots of problems. So to me my mac, although it might have cost a little more in cash, costs a lot less in terms of aggravation.

PS mac price trackers. They aren't as expensive as you think - they are comparable to any similarly configured brand name pc:

http://www.lowendmac.com/deals.shtml

another:

www.dealmac.com


www.macprices.com

Well, a couple, actually.

1) Does Apple have any iMacs or minis that use 64-bit architecture? I run Win64 right now and I'll be using Bootcamp to run it on the mac (assuming I'll be getting one, which will probably happen the next time I buy a computer but not exactly soon)

2) Will a dual core 1.85GHz Intel iMac run comparably to a single core AMD64 3200+ cpu?

3) OSX is *nix-based; I have used linux and in some cases Unix and am familiar with shell commands and the like. I'm assuming that other *nix applications NOT sold by Apple will run as expected. How limited am I in this? Can I, for example, build from source written for other *nix platforms, assuming I have the dependencies installed? Can I, for example, build OpenOffice from source? How about the game Chromium?

4) Back to Bootcamp. Will my Windows games run (in particular the couple of native 64-bit games I own, such as FarCry) as expected? My biggest worry on this one is Oblivion. I simply have way, way too much money invested in my games to buy a whole new rig that can't play them, but if they'll all run in OSX with Bootcamp installed, I'd drop my Win64 PC like a hot rock (well, maybe not that dramatically, but it probably would get sold).

5) I have a digital camera that can function like a webcam, but I lost the driver disk (not that it matters; the manufacturer hasn't gotten around to writing Win64 drivers yet). If I plug the camera into an iMac USB port and set it to PC-Cam mode, will the iMac recognize this and simply run it as a webcam- or will I need a driver for that special function?

Hope you can answer these questions. I'll switch if I can get comparable functionality while using my current software and in some cases hardware, but I really would like as much functionality as possible.

here's a great place for asking your questions --- http://forums.dealmac.com


That being said I will make a stab at them --


1) Does Apple have any iMacs or minis that use 64-bit architecture? I run Win64 right now and I'll be using Bootcamp to run it on the mac (assuming I'll be getting one, which will probably happen the next time I buy a computer but not exactly soon)

I think only the G5 are 64-bit at this time. I could be wrong. Apple support site good for looking up that kind of thing. http://www.apple.com/support/

2) Will a dual core 1.85GHz Intel iMac run comparably to a single core AMD64 3200+ cpu?

www.barefeats.com is a great place to look for benchmarks -- also ask at dealmac forum

3) OSX is *nix-based; I have used linux and in some cases Unix and am familiar with shell commands and the like. I'm assuming that other *nix applications NOT sold by Apple will run as expected. How limited am I in this? Can I, for example, build from source written for other *nix platforms, assuming I have the dependencies installed? Can I, for example, build OpenOffice from source? How about the game Chromium?

A lot of unix apps like OpenOffice already have builds ready for OS X I beleive. OS X comes w developer tools to let you do your builds, see dev notes here:

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Porting/Conceptual/PortingUnix/

4) Back to Bootcamp. Will my Windows games run (in particular the couple of native 64-bit games I own, such as FarCry) as expected? My biggest worry on this one is Oblivion. I simply have way, way too much money invested in my games to buy a whole new rig that can't play them, but if they'll all run in OSX with Bootcamp installed, I'd drop my Win64 PC like a hot rock (well, maybe not that dramatically, but it probably would get sold).

Bootcamp lets you install WinXP on your machine. So you'll choose to boot into either OS X or WinXP. If booted into winXP you basically have a Windows machine.

http://www.everymac.com/articles/q%26a/windows_on_mac/faq/gaming.html

general stuff:

http://www.everymac.com/articles/q%26a/windows_on_mac/faq/index.html

www.barefeats.com will probably have info too.

5) I have a digital camera that can function like a webcam, but I lost the driver disk (not that it matters; the manufacturer hasn't gotten around to writing Win64 drivers yet). If I plug the camera into an iMac USB port and set it to PC-Cam mode, will the iMac recognize this and simply run it as a webcam- or will I need a driver for that special function?

The bundled iChat uses Firewire cams (like your camcorder) -- there may be other mac webcam programs that use USB cams. (check out www.versiontracker.com for that kind of info) dealmac forum good too for this question. As to using your dig camera w iPhoto, it is probably plugandplay.

------

Hope this helps.

I just built the rig I'm using now, and I want to get some mileage out of it before I switch, but I'll check out those resources when I do. Thanks again!

Yes, iPhoto is cool, but ImageCapture is a) already on the machine with OSX (nothing extra to buy - iPhoto is extra) and b) kicks mighty ass.

and it's on my iBook G4 (OS 10.3)

Do try ImageCatpture, though - you have it, too and it's cleaner than iPhoto (not that there's anything wrong with iPhoto - it's just not always the right app).

Maybe I misunderstood about the bundling, but I stand by ImageCapture being a very nice app!

Hey there:

1) The current set of Intel Macs and minis do NOT have 64 bit support, due to the limitations of the Core Duo processor by Intel. The 64 bit support really is only useful if you are doing work with stuff that pushes around gigs of data, such as a large database, and you need to get around the 2 to 4 gig limitation imposed by the 32-bit addressing model. This being said, OS X IS a 64 bit OS, and in fact was such before Windows. The Mac G5 machines, which are being phased out, are 64 bit. Coming later this summer, Apple will introduce pro boxes based upon the the new Intel Core 2 Duo chip which will support 64 bit.

2) The speed of the Core Duo is quite impressive. However I am unable to find actual benchmarks comparing it to the single core AMD64, clocked at twice the Ghz. I would warrant that at some tasks which benefit with parallel execution, the Core Duo would do better, but stuff that can't be paralleled won't benefit. Note that the presence of 64 bit handling with these processors does not really translate to additional speed, per se, but rather is a benefit when having to access large data files.

3) Unix on Mac is nice, and works as expected. I regularly download and build a ton of open source stuff, which runs without modification. I also get Java stuff that works quite well. Same goes for X11 or other desktops that can run on top of *nix.

4) Bootcamp makes the Mac a windows box. Expect it to work the same way as comparable windows hardware as its processor specs and display cards dictate. I use Parallels, which is a virtualization tool that works GREAT, except it currently lacks 3D support. I use it more to run productivity and development applications side-by-side with my Mac stuff. It runs at nearly native Wintel speeds. Again, for the 64 bit stuff, you will not find this on the current iMac's or Macbooks or mini's. Later this summer, though when the next generation of Core Duos are released...

5) The webcam should just work. The all-in-ones and the laptops all have a webcam built in, anyway.

You sound like a game rig jockey from your post. Your needs will NOT be met by a low-end or consumer Macintosh, at this time. The pro towers will be out soon, and can be punched up to your requirements. They are essentially fast Intel boxes with OS X on them a bit of Apple industrial design and reliability.

So far as the Mac machines being more expensive, that is a bit of a misnomer that has been promoted and regurgitated by the build-your-own-rig weenies. or the "I just bought a piece of shit Dell machine off their website for $600.00" people. This is like comparing Apples to, well, oranges. Usually if you configure machines to comparable configurations, including hardware, and the wealth of included software that comes with the Macintosh, you end up being extremely price comparable, with a difference within a $100.00 or so. I will pay a bit of a premium for the easy of use and integration of the included iLife applications. These are spectacular. Out of the box, I can manage a library of thousands of digital photos, weeks of music, shoot and edit video, master DVD's, compose sound tracks, podcasts and music, and even publish everything to web. All of this tightly integrated, convenient, and it just WORKS. Just last week I shot a video at a big horse race event, as well as tons of photos. I was able to edit the video, burn it to a DVD, use the photos to create labels and covers for my DVD cases, print the photos, add music, publish a web version of the same video, and even automatically produce a hardbound photo book and calendar, all with the built in software on the machine.

Add to this the excellent customer service both in the point-of-purchase retail outlets, but also online and by phone.

But again, your needs will probably not be met by the current spate of machines; I would recommend waiting for a few months, were you to even consider this. There is a rumored "gamer's dream machine" in the works but details on this are sparse at this time.

If you don't want to build the computer yourself, there are lots of small PC-makers online who provide much better products than Dell. If you can build it yourself, you'll pay, on average, 2/3 the cost of an equivalent Dell computer and 1/2 the cost of an equivalent Mac. In any case, just get one of those machines, throw Linux on it (Ubuntu, SUSE and Fedora are best) and you're set. The Linux versions I mentioned are very easy to set up, and you'll have much fewer crashes, program freezes etc. than Windows or OSX. Linux has gotten very easy to use in the last couple years, and there's not much Win and OSX do that it can't anymore. Ubuntu, which I use, gives you the OpenOffice suite, Firefox, image editing and multimedia apps right out of the install, and there are thousands of free programs you can download from the Ubuntu server and have automatically installed on your system. Go the Mac route and you'll have to pay buckets of money for things like an HTML editor or an FTP client, which Linux offers for free.

Typical Linux-user FUD about Mac.

Listen, Linux is great if you are more than a casual computer user, don't get me wrong. But Linux is nowhere near as nice or elegant a solution, NOR as easy to use as Mac OS X or even Windows. I like using Linux for server stuff, but I would NEVER recommend it for the casual user. It just isn't there yet, regardless of what the afficionados will tell you. It is horribly inconsistent across applications, which is to be expected considering its sort of design by community aspect.

Look, if you want a *nix solution that will RUN all of that free open source crap (which most of it is, btw), plus a computer that will talk to printers, cameras, etc. without having to fiddle around on fink for a driver, plus a computer that will manipulate media, video, music, photographs in an integrated and consistent fashion, plus be able to run Java stuff, X11, etc, get the Mac. It's what Linux aspires to be.

Buckets of money for an FTP client or HTML editor? Um, these are included with the Mac for free. Finder does FTP right out of the box. iWeb does HTML. Or you can get online and download one of the Linux solutions for FREE.

What this guy said.

Not all macs currently use 64-bit architecture. Prior to Apple moving to Windows, the G5 was their 64-bit chip and it was employed in the imac and Power Mac lines. When Apple switched to intel it retained the same basic architecture on these two models only with slightly more power and speed, and the duo-core technology essentially gave the machines two processors in one. Apple has not yet employed this new technology in their Macbook, mac mini, and Macbook Pro lines.

I have not used bootcamp, but my understanding is that Windows-native games run fine on it. Some early reports are that Windows and Windows applications (including games) actually run better on a Mac running bootcamp than on a native PC. Others say that the performance is merely acceptable. But to my knowledge, there have been no reports of serious problems.

On question 5, the imac, the macbook, and macbook pro there is a built in digital webcam called isight. You don't need an external one. Your digital camera would function fine without a driver as a camera with iphoto, just plug it in and play. But I don't know if it would function as a webcam. Not my area of expertise. But like I said, if you bought any one of the models listed above, you won't need it to.

He just sent it back to apple because it froze up. First they thought it was the memory, next the hard drive. He still doesn't have it back. I make sure to remind him about it every day, only because when it first arrived he made fun of my PC and how ugly it looked.

I find the best option for computers is the build your own route. I know its not for everyone, but I can find quality parts for the same price as some of these mass produced dells. Plus, if something breaks, I just replace the part, not the whole computer (unlike my roomate who had to send the whole thing back).

Oh please. Computers have become "consumer devices". I am old enough to remember when we repaired our own televisions.... I remember as a child going to the hardware store with a bunch of tubes from the old Zenith in a cabinet, and plugging them into a tester to find out if they were bad... and putting replacement tubes back in the unit. I certainly don't recall much bitching about having to take my entire television in for repair once these became sealed, tubeless units.

The same goes with computers. There are those that are capable of fixing their machines on their own. Indeed, I do all of my own work on my tower units, and I have an iMac G5 that is easily serviceable by the end-user. Heck, even opening a mini or an iBook or even the new MacBook Pro is something that is done with varying degrees of ease. They use OFF THE SHELF components, the same damned things you find in their Wintel counterparts. I have upgraded hard drives in my laptops from Apple with no more difficulty than the usual three hours time it takes to tear an iBook down to the inexperienced tech. Some of the latest laptop models allow you to easily swap both memory and hard drives with ease. This whole "I can fix it myself" crap is a leftover of the days when computers were the pervue not of the common consumer but of the tech-saavy geekoids.

So far as service is concerned, I am nothing but impressed with Apple's service. I have had laptop or system failures in which I send the unit back to get worked upon. I make a call. The next day I receive a box via FedEx to ship the unit to the service center. They receive it the next day, and in 80% of the cases, turn it around and ship it back to me that very day... I then receive it on the third day. This is unrivalled in the computer industry. Let me compare this to my experience with a Dell media center PC in which it took these idiots nearly ten days to just GET ME the f-ing box to send it back to them. It then took another two weeks to get it repaired and sent back. Not to mention literally three hours on the phone with Dell support. Could I have fixed it on my own? Sure. Ever taken apart a Dell? They are crap inside, the interface cables are cut to very exacting lengths making it very difficult to put things back together because the fits are so snug. The cases are garbage, and access is a pain in the rear to work on them. For service within warranty, I would rather send my machines of ANY platform back to the manufacturer. In that situation, Apple has been the best to work with.

Furthermore, the Apple retail store experience makes the servicing all the easier. I can drive down to the local Apple store with my machine in tow. They will in most cases look at the machine and diagnose the problem immediately, for free. If the part is there, they will fix it for me while I wait in most cases, or the next day if they need to order something. WONDERFUL service experience.

And if you ARE someone who doesn't mind taking your own machines apart, disassembly guides are available for all Macintosh computers online, and you can actually ORDER replacement parts on their website to do the repairs yourself.

tiny little box... big power and memory. plugs in to your own monitor.... about 700 bucks.

We love it. We carry it with us when we go to the desert for the winter.

The only way a PC is cheaper only is if it's a super stripped down model.
"Macs are more expensive" does not apply anymore.
Especially when you consider the cost of viruses and system problems in Windows.

But if you need Windows too, Macs can now boot into Windows.

Here is a Mac vs. Dell laptop comparison of "similar" systems (Four Dollar Difference):
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/laptop/2006/0516_lt1100.html

Apple's Intel-based machines are priced very aggressively,
especially the Mini and the MacBook.

It's not like the only options are Dell and Apple.

"WHY THE HELL DID I WAIT SO DAMN LONG TO SWITCH TO MAC???????"


:toast:

I was talking with a friend of mine the other day who told me his PC just took a crap. I think he buys two to three computers to every one that I purchase. He is always having problems with PCs. I have a Mac, and never have any problems.

I asked him the other day, "When are you going to quit buying those piece of shit PCs and get a Mac?". He told me that one of our other friends asked him the same question. He told me that he is going to start pricing them.

He could not believe that my Imac G5 is so small but yet so powerful. He kept asking me where the rest of it was.

I will never buy anything but a Mac.

I spec'd and built all my PCs. During that time part of the hobby was to upgrade and improve the performance and functionality of them. This meant that the initial investment in parts to build the PC was never the total cost. Each Sunday's paper had Best Buy and Circuit City supplements that would be searched for new gadgets to add to the PC.

The frustration came when I realized that with the Mac you aren't just buying a 'puter, you're investing in a system. I still look at the big box supplements on sunday and smile whistfully at all the junk they can no longer offload on me. The only addition I've made to the iMac setup in the home office is to replace the four port USB hub with a seven port hub.

As for the Mini I put in the kitchen for the wife, all it's peripherals came from the previous small PC that was there. I transferred keyboard, mouse, and speakers and it took off from there. Needed nothing else.

Wait...wait....error...I did add one thing, the Plastic Smith Minitower which displays the small grandeur of the mini to match the rest of the kitchen.

On the software end I had thought, from hearing the PC crowd talk that after making the switch sixteen months ago the selection of software available to me would be limited. In fact, there is a world of freeware and shareware out there for OS X. I have yet to find a function for the Mac that is not supported by either free or inexpensive programs.

I, too, will never buy anything but a Mac.

In my case it was periodic expeditions to Frys.

Built up a couple from the bare case -- I always went for the towers that were easy to open up for frequent upgrades or other fiddling and had plenty of room.
At some point it became cheaper to buy complete systems on sale and upgrade them. Usually consumed less power too.
Migrated during that time almost entirely from Windows to Linux, which has tended to extend the life of my older machines considerably.

Moved the servers onto some little no-name desktop machines that use laptop parts and consume power like a laptop. They run OpenBSD.
Only upgrade there was a bigger disk when the old one wore out (feepin' spammers).



The Mac is a system in a way that no other computer is. You plug in your iPod and it knows what to do.
You can hook up an Airport Express and feed music to your stereo.

Still, you are not necessarily tied to what Apple has to offer.

My signficant other has been using Macintoshes since the mid '80s. She has upgraded every Macintosh she has owned, including the original one that required a special tool to open. More memory, of course. Bigger disks. RAID. Faster processors.

The upgrades on the very earliest Macs were very difficult and kludgy. Not the case for PowerMacs. Those are as upgradeable as any other computer.

They haven't come out with Intel-based an equivalent for the PowerMac yet. Probably waiting for Adobe to get Photoshop running on it.

about Dell or Mac, and they said Mac was better and I said that Dell is cheaper, and I was going to get a Dell, but I guess I will not now.

That Bush-supporting, job-offshoring, Cash-and-Grab asshole will NEVER get my cash.

So I'll have a Frankenstein PC (which beats any Dell's ass I've ever been on) and possibly a Mac laptop.

Bjork composes her music on a Mac laptop, and uses it on stage. Same with Imogen Heap and a host of others.

The Mac OS has always endeavored to stay out of the way so you can work without having to jump through a dozen hoops.

If you can find a Kensington Expert Mouse Pro, get it. It will speed up your work. It has four click buttons, a scroll wheel, and six programmable buttons. The ball is about the size of a cue ball.

Logic Pro and Ableton Live are a deadly duo ;) (although Pro Tools of course runs well also)

Good comprehensive review here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb05/articles/motudp45.htm

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/articles/2006/05/inconvenienttruth/

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http://images.apple.com.nyud.net:8090/hotnews/articles/2006/05/inconvenienttruth/images/top.jpg

The film itself:

"For cutting, Chilcott’s crew exported photos, animations and QuickTime movies directly into Avid software on Power Mac G5 computers and PowerBooks for use in the final film."

I guess they were brought up on Avid, even though FCP is far superior.

Thanks for posting that link to the Al Gore/Apple article!

I'd love to give it a try.

It is on par with the features found in PowerPoint - there are still some things it cannot do that PowerPoint does, such as having music span several pages... It seems limited to having soundtrack accompaniment on a per-page basis.

HOWEVER the weaknesses stop there. IF there is ever any doubt of the complete lack of design and taste of the Microsoft product developers, look no forward than comparing Keynote and PowerPoint. Presentations on PowerPoint are just incredibly elegant... photorealistic presentation templates, beautiful, smooth cinematic transitions, with transparencies, elegant and anti-aliased rendering of fonts and graphics. It really produces presentations that are just miles ahead in looks and execution than what can be done with PowerPoint.

create webpages, and brochures and newsletters, how does that work?? Does something like Publisher work on Mac?? I need these programs to go back and forth from work, too.

You need a copy of WinXP to install Windows.

Much, much more info here:

http://www.apple.com/getamac/

The Mac will absolutely blow your mind so far as the easy with which it integrates all types of media, especially for the easy production of web pages.

Photos are touched up and managed in iPhoto. iTunes manages music. iMovie imports and edits video, and also imports musical content and photo content from the other iApps. GarageBand allows you to record podcasts, write scores for your iMovie projects, or even compose your own music, which can then be played back in iTunes just like something you download. All of these media items can be tossed into iDVD and mastered onto a DVD that can be played in any consumer DVD player. OR all of this content can be imported into iWeb, a sort of word processor/page layout program for generating web pages. The quality of pages it produces is amazing. Take a look at my homepage at Skip's Homepage to see how I have incorporated blogging, video, photo galleries, and interesting page layouts by using these incredible tools which come with EVERY Mac. I have used the Windows tools. I will never go back to them.

Microsoft Office is nicer than the Windows version, and file compatible. Page layout options run the gamut from the inexpensive but powerful Pages software (part of iWork package, that includes Keynote, for under $100.00). Again, fully integrated with all of the other media editing and management apps outlined above. For higher-end work, use Quark, or InDesign, or other tools. PDF generation is built into the OS.

and here's another endorsement for iLife. What a great product.

You Windows guys. You always amaze me when it comes to page layout.

Desktop publishing was invented on the Macintosh, and it still works better there, but you hardcore Windows types are all "does something like Publisher work on Mac?"

The answer is no. Nothing like Publisher works on a Mac. It would never sell. Publisher is the worst piece of shit program ever bestowed on the world. You can't create a good document in it, you can't go outside Microsoft's idea of what makes a good document (this idea was created by a computer programmer, not an actual designer), and the program is an absolute nightmare inside the walls of a printing plant.

If you want to create brochures and newsletters, you buy a real publishing program--PageMaker if you want to be really cheap (it's not great, but it's pretty simple to use and it generates usable output), QuarkXPress or InDesign if you want to really get into this stuff. If you want to create webpages, there are a few real good programs like Adobe GoLive and Dreamweaver.

And if you want to be a cheapskate, try FreeHand. This is a drawing program, but it will make multipage documents so lots of people build whole books in it. CorelDraw will do likewise, but CorelDraw was banned by the Geneva Convention for excessive cruelty so don't get that.

The neat thing about real publishing software as opposed to shit like Microsoft Publisher is that it's cross-platform; there are versions for Mac as well as for Windows.

All Adobe apps run perfectly on the PC. I haven't had a Mac at home in years, yet I work professionally in publishing using the CS2 suite on my PC.

You can create really nice work in Adobe apps. Transparency requires a PostScript Extreme RIP if you want it to print--keep that in mind if you send something containing transparency to a printing plant, because there are still a lot of PostScript Level 2 RIPs in use.

If they'd just cost the same price.

Or been a little cheaper.

Instead, macs were always several hundred to several thousand more. I really believe this is why they never took over.

The reason that Windows sales took off is that they did not make the hardware. Microsoft licensed to any company, no matter how big, small, or crappy to make PCs. Apple wanted to make the best machines for the best operating system.

Now, not only does Apple make the best machines, but they are in the same price range as PCs.

The only way a PC is cheaper only is if it's a super stripped down model.
"Macs are more expensive" does not apply anymore.
Especially when you consider the cost of viruses and system problems in Windows.

Here is a Mac vs. Dell laptop comparison of "similar" systems (Four Dollar Difference):

http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/laptop/2006/0516_lt1100.html

The early Mac, circa 1982, was a much more advanced machine than the PCs of the day. It required more memory and a qualitatively superior processor. Further, the graphic capabilities were only a toy without a graphical printer-- PCs used daisy-wheel or similar printers that could only print one font at a time, and no graphics. The HP Laserjet made desktop publishing possible--and saved Apple Computer.

PCs became the standard because IBM was familiar to business and was perceived as safe. Most of the early computers replaced IBM Selectric typewriters. At the time, computers were exotic and frightening to most business people. Also a serious investment.

I think the major mistake of Apple was the delay in introduction of the SuperDrive, that could read and write both kinds of disks.

First, since the Mac has migrated to x86 architecture, they ARE PCs. My biggest problem is that they are, by and large, LOCKED DOWN PCs, which is no end of cause for aggrevation for me. See, the thing is this, for me, a standard PC is a helluva lot cheaper than either Macs or Dells. See, I upgrade slowly, change out the Hard Drive, the CD or DVD writers, Motherboard when I save up some money, etc. This is called upgrading on a budget, but I build my own, so that's basically how it is. Hell, I have a floppy drive on my computer that dates back to 1992 at least, took it out of a used 386 machine back then, haven't needed to replace it yet, though on my next upgrade, which will be a "major" upgrade, I'll just recycle it in an older machine that doesn't have bootable CD/DVD capabilities, a floopy disk server would do nicely. My next major upgrade will be a Mobo/CPU/Ram upgrade, and I may get a new case, haven't decided yet, but my damned near brand new 160 GB hard drive, and the older 30 GB hard drive, along with both my DVD/CD writer will also be put in the new computer. If Apple just sells the Motherboard/CPU and RAM for the Mac, at about the same price an AMD compatible chipset of same specs sell at, then I'd buy it, till then, no way.

Also, before you ask, I use Linux, Ubuntu Linux to be exact, and it works great, Microsoft sucks too.

Edited Subject Line.

My G4 started off life as a plain baseline 400 Mhz mini-tower with 64 MB and a 40 GB drive.

Memory is now maxed out at 2 GB

Now on a 120 GB hard drive, the 60 GB is a secondary drive, the 40 GB is in a box of parts somewhere.

The 400 Mhz G4 was replaced by a 1 Ghz G4, and is now running a dual-processor card with 2 1.8 Ghz G4's.

Video card is now a Radeon 9700

DVD-ROM now replaced with an internal DVD burner.

Zip drive replaced with a multi-format card reader with USB and Firewire ports on the front.

One PCI slot has extra USB and FireWire ports.

One has a four port USB 2.0 card

One has a fan card.

200 watt power supply replaced with a 300 watt.

Then there's the upgrades I did to my Powerbook "Pismo", (which now runs off of a G4)

Upgrading Macs is quite possible. Just have to know what to do. :-)

I imagine that the x86 Mac is hardware compatible with most of my hard drives, DVD drive, maybe even my Nvidia and Soundblaster Live! cards, though I don't know about that. This is assuming they have drivers written for them, of course. See I didn't start with ANY base system, I got some money together and built this computer from scratch, needed to because of my budget. I can't afford a Dell, nor can I afford buying an Apple. I just looked at their website, and guess what, I can't find Intel motherboard sales, nor CPU sales. In other words, Apple is useless, hell the only reason I would buy the Mobo/CPU in the first place is so I could run MacOSX. The only Mactels on the site is the Mac Mini for 600 bucks, and the iMac for 1,200 bucks. No offense, but are they kidding? I can get an AMD CPU and compatible Mobo with greater specs than the iMac for about a quarter of the price of that, or about half of the Mac Mini. I don't NEED a new keyboard, optical mouse, monitor, or anything else, ALL I need is a Mobo and CPU, with RAM of course. Until they sell the bare bones, without any of that other crap, I'm not buying, and no I don't go on E-Bay for that stuff either. I hate getting Used computer hardware, it usually has something wrong with it.

The "IBM-compatible" became the standard in business well before Apple was around. Many of the computer systems my company uses are windows-based simply because the interfaces only work on IBM systems.

Apple is just not compatible. So even if the company paid more for Apple, it just isn't compatible with the various programs and systems.

When IBM PCs first came on the scene, they were extremely expensive.

The original IBM PC, according to oldcomputers.net, listed for $3000 on initial release.

According to official IBM literature, the IBM PC-XT, which added a 10MB hard drive and the ability to address 640k RAM, listed for $7545.

List price of the much-improved original IBM PC-AT was about $6000.

And that's without a monitor, or a video card, or any software except PC-DOS. And those computers sold like hotcakes.

Compare that to the $2500 the Macintosh was introduced at.

The top-name PC clones were also real expensive--$3500 would get you into a Compaq Deskpro or an HP Vectra.

The reason IBM became "the standard" was the old datacenter mantra of the time: "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." IBM had an incredible customer service force at the time. When you bought an IBM mainframe, it came with a little guy you installed in the back room and piped coffee to. (Very few people actually bought IBM mainframes--most of them were leased.) You knew that box wasn't going to fuck up and destroy your business. So naturally, when IBM introduced their Personal Computer (to compete with the Apple II--did you know that IBM's greatest business forecaster predicted they'd only ever sell 250,000 of these machines over the life of the product?) businesses started buying them. They were IBMs. You could trust them. If you worked in a company that had IBM PCs, a lot of times IBM would structure the contract so that employees could buy machines at the company's price and get them delivered when the company's order came in.

Three products "made" the IBM PC. The most important was Lotus 1-2-3. It was supposedly a spreadsheet, database and graphics app all in one, but no one used the database (because of the second product, which was dBase III) and lots of businesses used IBM Monochrome Display Adapters, which don't support graphics, to drive their green screens so they couldn't use the graphics module. The third was WordPerfect. Combine those three and you had a real nice rounded business machine.

Inexpensive PCs didn't start arriving until Phoenix reverse-engineered the IBM PC's BIOS. Before then your non-IBM PC would be mostly compatible with an IBM but not completely compatible. How you knew HOW compatible any particular machine was, was to buy a copy of 1-2-3, stick Disk 1 in the floppy drive, type A:123 and hit return. It would either run or crash the machine, and it would normally crash the machine.

Now forward to 1984, when the Mac shipped. Macintosh came out at $2495. It had 128k of RAM versus 640k for the PC-XT. It had no hard drive; the XT was defined by its capacious 10MB drive. It had a little bitty screen that wasn't in color. There were two programs, MacWrite and MacPaint, and both of them came with it. You couldn't expand the Mac. The floppy drive was completely different from the one on their PC--and, more important, on their customer's PC. There were no function keys and the "graphic user interface" was completely foreign to the way "real" computerists operated. "Who wants to take their hands off the keyboard to use a mouse?" (Which is why, to this day, every function in Windows has a keyboard equivalent.) Plus the much-improved IBM PC-AT was coming out. Who the hell would buy a Mac? Until the Macintosh 512k was released, even Apple people didn't buy it.

in one twelve month period. Every single one crashed due to either defective disk drives or mother boards. My own work PC managed to die on me twice due to these causes. Given this experience I expect that they have to put the support staff in India to stop the customers from throttling them. Suffice to say that as a result of this nightmare no further Dells have been bought. We will go back to carving documents on tablets of stone rather than use them again.

*drinks some beer* Surprise. My MacBook Pro rocks socks. Ubuntu to left of me, Windows 2000 pro to the right of me. OS X pays the bills..

If I can do it, anyone can. You just have to do a little reading on the subject, and maybe spend some time scrounging for components if cost is a big factor (for me, cost was the biggest factor).

I wish more people knew that DIY is a viable option, even for those who know relatively little about computers.

Over the past decade I've built and upgraded many Windows PCs, not just for myself but for the rest of my family. In January, I made the leap to a PowerMac G5 (even knowing about the Intel switch) and haven't looked back. I've added a second drive to it, along with some external peripherals, but that's it - no more futzing inside of the box, my photography now takes precedence!

I had a laptop from them until the day the monitor just went blank. I couldn't get the screen to pop up again, so it's basically useless to me.

I had to drag out my Mac desktop (a year older than the Dell, BTW), which has been working perfectly ever since. In fact, I'm using it right now.

:D

I had a laptop from them until the day the monitor just went blank. I couldn't get the screen to pop up again, so it's basically useless to me.

Does anything power up? Do any indicator lights come on? Can you hear the hard drive spinning, for instance, or is everything completely silent/dark/dead?

The power still comes on. It's just that nothing pops up on the screen. There was a trick (Alt+ something else I can't remember) that would display images on the screen, but it only lasted a few seconds.

The only problem is the lack of images on the screen.

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-6079967.html


"We have re-evaluated our plans, and have decided to put our planned support center growth in other countries," Apple's Steve Dowling said.

Maybe it means the US. Maybe it means Russia. Who knows until they say so?

And until they say so, they're playing fuckin' MIND GAMES.

I see no reason to cheer this. Not until we know for sure the jobs are in America, to help America's economy. At which point I really would consider buying Apple.

I prefer that American companies get my business, rather than foreign ones.

Now if I could just convince my boss at work to buy different stuff!

IBM is gleefully advertising their 10,000 Indian employees on the front page of their "US" website: