Breaking: Japan warns N.Korea over any missile launch

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2089299

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Aso warned North Korea on Sunday Tokyo would regard any missile that dropped on Japan as an attack.

Aso made the comments amid reports North Korea could test fire an intercontinental ballistic missile as early as Sunday.

"If it is dropped on Japan, it will complicate the story. It will be regarded as an attack," Aso said on a Fuji TV program.

"The possibility is not zero of a missile dropping on Japan. That's why we are worried," said Aso.

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I wonder exactly how the various mutual defense pacts are worded.

If North Korea attacks any of them, the first thing they will do is ask the United States for help. If we refuse, we will seriously damage relations. And losing the Japanese and South Koreans as allies would be catastrophic to our economy. The Japanese hold 40% of our national debt. Like I said...catastrophic.

Which means if Kim Jong Ill starts to grow some balls, we may get sucked into a war with North Korea. And with that kind of war, we will need a military draft. We are going to need a million troops.

Japan holds 1.2 trillion dollars of our 8 trillion dollar debt. That is about 15%.

and Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.-Japan_Security_Treaty#Reference

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/
Treaty_of_Mutual_Cooperation_and_Security_between_Japan_and_the_United_States_of_America

It says if there is an attack on Japan the USA will come to Japan's defense.

Treaties, aren't they just a "goddamn piece of paper"? Remember we also signed a "treaty" to aid and support any Democratic country in the Americas as well. Haiti was a Democratic country..

Seems that Big Brother is tied down getting ready to nuke Iran!

If North Korea attacks Japan, the treaty we signed after world war 2 says we MUST come to Japan's aid.

for the sake of living up to what it signed up to?

What you meant to say was as soon as the US smelled blood in the water then the sharks that masquerade as a dept of defense would be on it like stink on shit.

A lot of metaphors to be sure but when you have to live in reality that others keep trying to suck the wind out of then being more obscure than the perpetrators of crimes sometimes works.

Believe me, if they are attacked, we will have no choice but to fight with them.

If we refuse, they can recall that debt and put us in an instant depression overnight.

Just about anything written on paper is just about worthless especially today. The US is signatory to many a treaty that it does and does not adhere to. The rhyme and reason of the US citing treaties for it taking action is only convenience and allusion at best. No doubt the US would intervene but when the US cites some treaty as to why it acts is mere ceremony.

We are already overextended. Outside of the nukes, what else could we use?

delayed the US Fleet the last time. Not much has changed in that regard.

I was there.

One Admiral of those times referred to the mines as 'Gadgets'.

180

where sea mines are know to be in place. The invasion of North Korea at Wonsan harbor was delayed by sea mines and finally called off. It was a mess.

Three US Mine Sweepers were lost in an attempt to clear the mine fields in Wonsan Harbor

So invasion by armies would best be done by air. The Seventh fleet be about useless except for missile launching from far away.

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To be bluntly honest, if you think the only purpose of a navy is direct, close-in shore bombardment in immediate support of landing forces, then you clearly need to realize that things have in fact changed since 1953.

And you can't possibly believe the entire coast of the peninsula is mined. Really now, that's just silly.

of sea mining you might think different.

I was a mineman in the Navy by rating and an Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician and deep sea diver. I do know about mining.

Our navy spends a lot of time and money developing mine clearance/counter measures. But it do not make it perfect.

I suggest you might consider reading 'The Sea War in Korea' by Commander Malcom W. Cagel and Commander Frank Manson'

Also 'Weapons That Wait'- Mine Warfare in the U.S. Navy
by Gregory Hartmann with Scott Truver.

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...Then what is Japan going to do?

Pout?

and we have to come to their aid according to the mutual security treaty.

I think that a perfect scene would be, Korea launches missile, it spins out of control and hits hairdo's house. Or maybe we test one of the multi million$ anti missile missiles, or maybe that laser in the 747.

If one stage of a rocket falls in Japanese waters that would not be an attack. But it might be a pretext for a counter-attack.

The U.S. dropped an H-bomb on Spain by accident in the 1960's (obviously it didn't go off). Israel attacked a U.S. navy vessel in the 1960's. The U.S. shot down a civilian Iranian airliner in the 1980's. The U.S.S.R. shot down a civilian Korean airliner in the 1980's. Things like that happen. They don't have to trigger wars.

North Korea tests an ICBM and Japan has said they may decide to start looking into nuclear weapons for their own security.

Same situation in the mid-east. Israel says they will park subs armed with nukes in the Persian Gulf if Iran develops a nuclear weapon.

Look at India and Pakistan.

Before we know it, we are going to have these mini cold wars all over the place. One accident and you can say goodbye to the human race.

And once several powers are known to have nuclear arms and the ability to deliver them, it leads to things like "launch on warning".

It is unfortunate. Before Bush (i.e. under Clinton) these sorts of nuclear tensions seemed to be ebbing.

Iran did not have the capacity during the Clinton administration to develop the nukes. Today they have developed that ability. We have not had relations with Iran since Jimmy Carter and the hostage crisis.

With North Korea...
Clinton signed an agreement in 1994 that was supposed to stop their nuclear research in exchange for food and oil. However, the CIA released intel in 2000 that stated that the North Koreans never stopped their nuclear research and development. When confronted with this intel, the Koreans admitted completely they were developing nukes and refused to stop. So Bush in 2001 decided to call off the 1994 agreement and stop sending food and oil.

Even Madeline Albright says we were played for fools. And this is why diplomacy is a problem. There is a trust issue. We are refusing any agreement that is not accompanied by verification. In other words, we want the IAEA to be inspecting North Korean labs. Kim Jong Ill is flat-out refusing to allow this.

Iran developed some magic nuclear capacity in 6 years? Their scientific know-how has not changed substantively in that short period. The U.S. may not have had formal relations with Iran for several decades, but that doesn't mean the political and diplomatic atmosphere wasn't different under Clinton. There are ways of having diplomatic relations without having an embassy.

Same goes for North Korea.

Countries arm when they feel threatened, just like individuals. Bush has made a policy of threatening countries, Clinton made a policy of at least seeming non-threatening. The difference matters.

The Shah worked on them, then the ayatollah came to power and halted it, then the ayatollah started it again after the war with Iraq.

It means that this will be a story on Stephanie Miller's "Stand-Up News" on Monday -- and, thus, we'll get another of Jim Ward's Kim-Jong Il routines. The horror, the horror...

no wonder they are worried...