Katrina looters get 15 years in prison

KENNER, Louisiana (AP) -- Three people convicted of hauling away liquor, wine and beer from a grocery store after Hurricane Katrina were sentenced Wednesday to 15 years in prison.

The judge said he wanted to send a message that looting would not be tolerated when he gave the maximum sentence to Coralnelle Little, 36, Rhonda McGowen, 42, and Paul C. Pearson, 36, all of Kenner.

A jury convicted the trio May 2 on a portion of the state's looting law that took effect two weeks before the Aug. 29 storm. The amended law set a three-year minimum sentence, and a maximum of 15 years in prison, for looting during a declared state of emergency.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/29/looters.sentenced.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

It seems like a very harsh penalty for the crime.

But hey, that might have been some real special alcohol they stole... :sarcasm:

This is indeed shocking.

You might want to edit your post for clarity.

it's the world according to W

check out the threads on the Rainbow Gathering arrests for more info on this...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1532825

hurt the citizens all you want, ignore them and let them die,
but don't you dare steal liquor! 15?????



www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<<--- check it out!

Claim: Photograph captions describe a black man "looting" and a white couple "finding" supplies in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

Status: True.

Examples:



http://www.snopes.com/katrina/photos/looters.asp

They wouldn't be looking at me so hard in the shower.

in an appeal. Other crimes, way worse than this under MUCH LESS SEVERE circumstances have received lighter sentences.

So, appeal won't overturn it, because the judge was within the law.
That said, it seems obscene that someone can be sentenced for 15 years for stealing beer and wine.

but if they were white, it is 'finding'...

that they were stealing alcohol. It's not like this was for survival and I would hope anyone would get time for this. Not 15 years...but it doesn't compare to "finding."

it's not like drinking water was pletiful at that time, wine and beer are traditional substitutes. And hey, excuse me, but even if it was 'recreational' that was a pretty depressing time, so yeah a drink or two is not that out of bounds to me.

and yes, if it WAS an issue of necessity that makes a difference (although I kinda doubt that's the case), but I still think the issue here isn't one of them being falsely accused of looting, but rather getting a sentence that is insanely long. I have no pity for the conviction part of it...

think alike! Welcome to DU! :toast:

Jenn

That seems way harsh. Bet they are not White and Rich

that sentence is entirely extreme. The punishment should fit the crime.

in their initial response to the disaster, remains free to destroy and loot from America. :cry:

For stealing BILLIONS

THE CHIMP'S OIL AND ENERGY BUDDIES

The American Nazi Party!

:shrug:

I'm sure the white 'finders' won't even be charged, pictures notwithstanding! But heaven forbid that any news get shown that displays for the world the extent to which race matters in America, even in 2006!

We all look alike.:sarcasm:

jury 90 minutes, I believe.
The judge then sentenced them according to guidelines.
The sentence does seem insanely excessive, but the judge was within his rights to sentence them to 15 years.

... have not returned. Anyway, my faith in a criminal justice system as it related to Blacks leaves much to be desired.

What charges are faced by the white looters?

the convicted are.
But the jury convicted them, and the judge sentenced them-according to the new law.

As a Black man I doubt if I would have had water from a 'White Only' fountain back in the day. I probably would not have married a white woman if I lived in Mississippi at the wrong time (or even now - LOL). As you indicate, laws matter.

Try not to be so insistently correct, next time! (kidding, of course)

It's so excessive- I feel for them, but then I am not the judge.

:sarcasm:

....you won't be reading about any whites getting busted for crimes in New Orleans.

</sarcasm>

I bet you could make a mint selling them. Just be sure to make the Finder shirts white with black lettering and the Looter shirts black with white lettering

People need to see this, in the same way they need to see the names of the troops killed in Iraq.

I'd like to see the sentencing patterns of that judge.

That is a ridiculous and grossly unfair sentence, especially when restitution and perhaps a hefty fine would be more than sufficient justice. I'd really like to see all the corporations looting New Orleans, Iraq and all of America punished as harshly.

of 15 years in prison, for looting during a declared state of emergency."

And who says they weren't prepared for Katrina?

...starving while carrying a child wearing damp newspapers instead of diapers. But the folks responsible for the trailers still sitting probably gets a medal of honor!

KENNER, Louisiana (AP) -- Three people convicted of hauling away liquor, wine and beer from a grocery store after Hurricane Katrina were sentenced Wednesday to 15 years in prison.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/29/looters.sentenced.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

I don't suppose that the booze which they stole was for thier thirsty children? ;)

not to this set of them. Still, 15 years for looting beer and wine that would probably be written off is somewhat excessive. I guess I'm still pissed off at the finders/looters set of photos.

But a mistake is a mistake and I'll admit to one. Thanks for pointing that one out to me. :)

as they were stopped while in the store.

It wasn't even a good bust. To be guilty of stealing you have to leave the store with the merchandise.

I wonder how many months of experience their court appointed attorneys had.

SKELETOR and He-Man and the Master of the Universe



Like, "Killer" and War Criminal, Tommy Franks

And, "Butt Boy Extraordinaire" and War Criminal, Paul Wolfowitz

The shattered lives of the poor of New Orleans have still not been pieced back together, but these people are crushed with a draconian sentence. Property obviously counts for more than lives in our supposedly civilised and humane culture.

water, you know that what is in that beer or wine bottle is SAFE TO DRINK.

in this country get away with their crimes!

There ain't no justice! :grr:

The judge giving a maximum sentence for looting wine, beer, and liquor is outrageous, when Halliburton and other Bush cronies have looted billions from the taxpayers. After reading about this, there should no longer be any doubt about the double standard of justice in this country, one set of rules for rich white people, and another set for the poor and minority classes.

These sentences should be struck down on appeal. There must be some benefit to society to justify putting people behind bars, and for something like this, probation would make more sense. Another factor, which the Law and Order If You're Not One Of Us crowd either forgets, or doesn't consider, is the cost to society in keeping these people in prison. What about the effect, financially and emotionally, on their families?

America has become such a brutal country that now the conservative crowd is willing to stick us taxpayers with a bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars, just to get the satisfaction of giving punishment to a sector of society they don't like. It will cost hundreds of thousands, too, if each defendant serves the maximum term. Feel safer?

And under the law they were convicted, probation is not an option.

and the judge gives the sentence? Fifteen years is overly extreme and justice is not served when we have individuals bilking millions of consumers and devastating a state's resources, who will not see fifteen years. Also, we have an administration that's, in my opinion, looting the treasury for their corporate buddies who probably will not see justice either. After going through the S&L debacle, some claim to be the worst theft in the history of the world, with justice not being meted out, this is an outrage. It seems if your good at bilking millions of people then you must have some kind of talent, therefore, your sentence should be less or non-existent--but if your poor and steal less than 1,000, then your bad and justice should be stiff. I'm tired of the double standard, when those who steal millions or billions get away with it, leaving a lot more innocent people devastated!!!!!

So, the judge could have given them 3 years as a minimum sentence.
I think the sentence is way too excessive, but that's neither here nor there, since I am not the judge.
But it appears everything was done within the law.

Yes, I realize that the jury convicted, but the judge imposed the sentence, I believe. You know, after responding to this thread, I thought about it more and more. It's a shame there can't be a little more leeway given in sentencing laws. In this particular case, making the punishment fit the crime might have warranted a sentence of community service. It's just so strange, though, that our society is so willing to impose harsh sentences without giving thought to whether the punishment harms the public more than the sentence.

I still believe that had the ones accused been affluent white men, there would have been no charges, period. I know that sympathy for taking liquor, instead of milk and pampers is not going to be the same, but still, I keep coming back in my own mind to the financial cost to society in order to punish at any cost.:shrug: I guess there are so many things that don't make sense any more.

with their rebuilding fraud?

Give me a break! This country has lost it.

Please do. Then you may reconsider this sentence these guys got for "simple" looting. They got off pretty light, in my opinion.

who has witnessed it on several occasions up close and personal...

I agree.

I'm not going to read the book anytime soon. Care to give me some insight?
In your opinion what would have been an appropriate sentence considering you believe these looters to have gotten off lightly?

Thanks! :hi:

over-stated, yes, but i guarantee you that is what people feel in their hearts abt looters

these scumbags got a jury trial of people in the area they looted and they were properly convicted and sentenced

no pity here

as i said in my other posts, looters kill, because they create a climate of fear where people won't evacuate their homes and businesses for fear of being looted

looters MUST receive a harsher penalty compared to the average thief, because the consequences of their actions are so much more severe for society

Brinkley documents several instances across New Orleans in the days after the storm passed where bands of people looted stores literally bare. According to witnesses, these were not people desperate for the basic needs of survival; rather, they were mobs who finally saw their chance at "payback." A prevailing sentiment on the part of many looters -- and the title of a chapter in the book -- was "It's our time now." Meaning, of course, that the depth of poverty that many in New Orleans were living in provided the excuse to take advantage of the chaos in Katrina's aftermath to somehow even the "economic score."

No doubt many took items needed for personal survival, such as food, water, baby supplies, etc. But sorry, I do not consider liquor as being the stuff of life; neither do I consider their actions as something that should make these thugs "heroic" by anyone's definition.

Some of the more egregious examples of NO looting are these:

* Police taking plasma TVs and CD players. (Brinkley calls them "outlaw cops.") Page 203. (Luxury cars were also taken by cops, who used them to get the Houston.)

* Looters cleaning out a sporting goods store, leaving shoes and socks to float down the street while they took Nike shirts and NFL caps. Page 201.

* Several businessowners returned to their properties to find that not only were their stores cleaned out, but looters left what Brinkley says the looters called "big dumps." Looters often defacated in the stores -- on countertops, in aisles, on bartops -- even in refrigerators. Brinkley quotes a Shell station owner who returned to find that looters had filled his refrigerator with shit: "They behaved like animals," Brinkley recalls the man saying. "They're making a statement: 'Shit on you.'" Page 278.

* Areas not flooded were also vandalized. A Wal-Mart that had opened to allow for rescue workers and victims to take necessary supplies were overrun and cleaned out, especially jewelry and electronics. Again, some of the looters were police. Page 361.

* Robberies of occupied houses were common. Page 364.

* Some neighborhoods became battle zones between businessowners and looters. A forklift was used to bash in the front of a drugstore. (Okay, let's all give the looters the benefit of the doubt here and assume that they were in need of Band-Aids and penicillin.) Kids and old women were taking power washers and power saws from a hardware store, which survived Katrina pretty well, but was pretty much destroyed by the robberies. Businessowners began arming themselves; so did the looters. Pages 501-503.

* One man set up a "bar" in the lobby of a theater, near where several families were congregated; he had gotten an actual bar from someplace, as well as a lot of liquor, that he was selling for $1 a shot. The families complained to a National Guardsman, who shut down the "entrepreneur" and smashed his "inventory." Pages 601-602.

Have I made my point? If not, Brinkley has many more accounts (either from interviews with police, Guard officials, or storeowners, or from media accounts) of looting and the outright lawlessness of those who saw the disaster as being "their time now." I don't give a damn how dire the circumstances, or how dire one's life may be, there is no excuse for literally taking advantage of a disaster, which is exactly what many people in NO did.

From what I understand 15 years for looting was the standard sentence in Louisiana for looting. I have no problem with tacking on an extra 5 to 10, or whatever penalties ensue when other complicating circumstances (like firearms) are involved.

So no, I really don't feel sorry for these two guys in the OP who got what they legally deserved under the law. Justice was served, in my opinion. Neither does my heart bleed for the poor unfortunates I mentioned above. Especially those who used stores as their toilets.

Read the book. It's good. :hi:

Looting non-essential items in time of a disaster is wrong, but they should not be sentenced to a longer jail term than Duke Cunningham or the Enron gang. I would have only given them six months to a year.

And before anybody asks, I think child molesters should be publicly executed, and white collar corporate criminals should also be put to death.

I mean, that's really severe. There's rapists out there who don't get this much time behind bars.

sister-in-law was murdered) the average person who takes another's LIFE (murder, manslaughter) spends LESS THAN TWO YEARS behind bars. (I'm sure this has changed some since stricter sentencing laws have been put in place, but still...)

sending "messages" from the bench. If Nazi Roberts hadn't removed himself from the Gitmo ruling, it would have ended up different. If we get the house back we need to start impeaching Bush judges. Because, first we can, second because Bush was never elected so he doesn't get to appoint judges anyway. This is a ridiculous sentence. Three years for PETTY THEFT? Nazi SCUM.

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/westbank/index.ssf?/base/news-2/1151567340128240.xml&coll=1



So, Little was out on bond, hired by the store, now back in jail for 15 yrs? ACLU where are you? This is wayyyyyy too much.

Obviously the store isn't the entity pressing charges. You're right to call for the ACLU.

I can't work up a lot of sympathy for people who are convicted of crimes they actually committed,but the sentence does seem excessive. However, I have no problem with them doing some jail time.

Taking bottled water and insulin is one thing; those are necessary for survival. Stealing liquor, though, is just stealing.

from coverage on the 2002 election (Liljeberg was elected the judge):

"Attorneys Jeff Hand and Hans Liljeberg are competing for Bodenheimer's seat. Both are spending freely and campaigning hard, although neither has attacked the other over the airwaves. Both are Republicans making their first bid for public office.

Hand stresses his experience as a criminal prosecutor. He served stints as an assistant district attorney in New Orleans and Jefferson for a combined 11 years.

Liljeberg's campaign themes include integrity, dedication and public safety. He says his combined experience as an assistant district attorney, businessman and civil attorney -- along with his even temperament -- better qualify him for the judgeship. Hand counters that he promises to be a "full-time" judge without outside business "distractions" -- a reference to Liljeberg's reportedly large real estate holdings. Hand also pledges to make his taxes public. Liljeberg says that he, too, will be a full-time judge and that his business holdings will not distract him from his work as a judge."


http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2002-10-01/feat.html

---

no surprises there.

looting a Walmart. I wonder if they will get the maximum sentence.

that'll be the argument. I bet you know what they took since you brought this up. I didn't know about this thank you!!



www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<<--- check it out!

from Crooks and Liars:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/01.html#a4725

Looks like shoes and clothes. I wouldn't care if they were taking food and water.

The police were also stealing cars right from the dealership:

http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/31366.php

15 years in prison.

looters kill because they make people afraid to leave their homes and evacuate, many people feel obligated to ignore evacuation orders where there is no evidence that looters will be caught and harshly prosecuted

even after all the deaths by drowning after katrina, i have heard people say they would not leave their homes again, esp. older people who can't keep starting over financially and so feel pretty much like they have to stay and defend their home, their only possession

these are the three who got caught, but you do realize that there are hundreds if not thousands of looters who profited and went unpunished, organized criminals are literally coming around w. trucks and looting homes of architectural details, rebuilding materials deliverred to the site, etc? hell, some homes have been robbed multiple times

and i don't doubt that the closed businesses have been targeted too

someone needed to send a message that looting will NOT be tolerated

looters honestly don't belong on the same planet with the rest of us

the real big time 'looters' chimp's buddies like Halliburton who got contracts in the Katrina areas and are ripping off the taxpayers for millions of dollars! :grr:

See? Everything works out.

:puke:

provided they don't get raped in prison.

Even a murderer gets less than today.

DemEx

not to pick on you, friend, but if you had ever lived in kenner, or if you lived there now, you would be applauding this verdict

we do not need looters in our society

we do not need the added stress of our husbands refusing to leave homes or businesses -- in some cases, causing them to be drowned -- because of the fear of looters

looters MUST be dealt with most harshly and while to a certain degree we joke that we shoot looters on sight -- it is not just a joke

the looter is a hated species and they had to face a jury of their peers in their community, one where houses and businesses (mostly) were not destroyed by water but by wind -- and by LOOTERS

many of us would not care if looters got the death sentence frankly, call it compassion fatique but this is not a victor hugo novel, this is real life

when i finally was able to return to my evacuated neighborhood after a month, i saw a huge sign from a man who did not evacuate, LOOTERS WILL BE SHOT ON SIGHT, my feeling was not anger but "thank god"

walk a mile in our shoes, walk a mile in the jury's shoes, and then come back and criticize if you still have the heart

in everyday life in the US, but these sentences are still IMHO obscene and unacceptable.

I wonder if a group of white, more well-to-do people looting alcohol would receive such a sentence....:think:....don't think so.....

Compared to other, worse crimes that receive lesser sentences, and expecially the crimes of this government and their phenomenal looting.....a 15 year sentence for looting alcohol under these circumstances is still to be criticized and rejected.

And a desired death sentence for looting is slightly more than 'compassion fatigue' here..... :puke: :wtf:

we do not need looters in our society
No, we don't, and we don't need a lot of other disorderly and deviant behavior in our society - want to lock them all up, kill 'em, hope that you will be the one whose standards of deviancy and punishment are imposed here?

As an ex-pat, sentences here are often laughably light compared to in the US - but in general they are more fitting the crime IMO.

It will take much more than capital punishment and 15 years prison for taking some booze to even out the inequalities and social injustices in the US.....

And I might make such a sign "Looters will be shot on sight" to ward off those with such ideas with my property, but that doesn't mean that I would do it...

All IMHO.


DemEx

What a crock of sh*t.

none of us want or need looters in our society

15 years is a fair price when you consider how many people die because they stay to defend their property from looters and thus don't obey evacuation orders, looters are not harmless alcoholics, they KILL

would risk their lives to defend their property. I didn't read where these people destroyed the place, they just took the alcohol as far as I know. They didn't assault anyone or do anything violent that I've heard about. The argument that looting is wrong is correct, but the punishment is out of context and shows how much people care more about property than people in this country.

then that is a big incentive to stay especially if the police,like mine, aren't going to help. And it isn't unknown for looters to burn a pillaged property as well.

I know a couple that is staying next time after looters unsuccessfully tried to break into their home. The police in my area have proven they aren't going to help, so I can't blame them. I don't want to leave either.

If the National Guard had rolled down my street and killed every looter, I would have cheered and given them all a cold beer. You just have no idea what an absolute living hell these people make your life. It's easy to wax poetic when you've never had to deal with looters up, close, and personal like I have. Scumbags that use an emergency to commit crimes should be shot on sight.

My friends and I were caught by Katrina with no real hurricane supplies. Yet we rallied together and made sure that everyone was okay and had enough food (MREs) and water. That is caring about human life, not breaking in someone's home or business in order to take stuff you want.

As for sentiment that the punishment for the pair in the story was too harsh, my sympathy meter pings at zero Kelvin. Don't do something that might make you a horrible warning especially since looting in some areas hasn't stopped. I don't care what color they are or what excuses they may have for looting. The point is that they got caught and now they have to pay the piper.

Looters have zero regard for human life. And they only steal because they can. The people who loot solely for survival are a microscopic minority. And alcohol is not a requirement for life.

....who takes advantage of anyone, for any reason, during a natural disaster or an emergency like the aftermath of a hurricane. So I don't find the 15 year sentence unreasonable at all.

Having said that, I think it's pretty bad when looting after a natural disaster carries more time than child molestation, rape, burglary, etc. Yes, our laws definitely need some tightening up.

Not that he'd want to.

do not get this amount of time.

This is insane.