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Grocery store workers fired for not punching out to watch military funeral

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Barrett808

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Mon Jul-09-07 12:48 PM
Original message

Grocery store workers fired for not punching out to watch military funeral

Source: Associated Press

JACKSON, Mich. -- Two grocery store employees have been fired after they didn't punch out while viewing a 300-vehicle funeral procession for a soldier who was killed in Iraq.

Polly's Country Market store produce manager Ron Klimmer and produce retail clerk Michael Wahr received notice of their firings in letters from the company mailed to their homes, said United Food and Commercial Workers Local 951 business representative Scott Gould.

They were punished for watching the June 19 funeral procession of Army Sgt. Matthew Soper. The Jackson resident died June 6 in Bayji, Iraq, of wounds from an improvised explosive device.

Gould said a grievance is planned.

"The union feels the company does not have just cause for termination," he told the Jackson Citizen patriot for a story Saturday.

Read more: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070709/UPDATE/707090382/-1/rss

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BOSSHOG

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Mon Jul-09-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message

1. That is fucking pathetic

Edited on Mon Jul-09-07 12:54 PM by BOSSHOG

I bet the higherups at the company have yellow magnets on their vehicles urging us all to support the troops.

My stepmother worked at a bank and she died several years ago. She was home sick for months before she died of cancer. The bank kept her check going to her and on the day of her funeral they closed their (at the time) three branches and continued the pay of the employees who all attended her funeral.

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Mike Daniels

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Mon Jul-09-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #1

5. So they left work to watch a 300 car procession

didn't punch out (in effect saying they were at work and getting paid while they were out of the office) and the company fired them.

What is the problem with that?

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BOSSHOG

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Mon Jul-09-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #5

8. The company

could have docked their pay, adjusted their paycheck, thanked them for supporting the troops, joined them at the procession?? But fire them?

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Mike Daniels

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #8

11. Well, the article says both employees were on suspension

If they were on suspension for a different offense then they apparently had acted improperly in the past.

The article isn't clear though as to whether that suspension applied to the skipping out on work or something different altogether.

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BOSSHOG

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #11

15. Agreed

If they were in trouble for something else their attending the funeral could have been the last straw.

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0007

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Mon Jul-09-07 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #5

41. .......wait a second, are you for real?

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Purveyor

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #1

27. Not only pathetic but some of the worst PR any retail establishment could have happen to them.

Jackson is a very patriotic, 'red' county in Michigan and believe me when I say this is not going in Polly's favor with the public. (I live and shop here)

It was but a few years ago that Polly's had a senior citizen arrested for 'sampling the grapes' in the produce section.

Granted, in both cases the store is technically in the right however 'public relations' should out weigh 'technically right' every time if you want to stay in business.

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tblue37

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Tue Jul-10-07 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #1

47. When my sister, an RN, had to miss work because of

Edited on Tue Jul-10-07 09:13 AM by tblue37

pneumonia, she ended up being fired for taking too many days off. (She works in Texas.)

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Virginia Dare

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Mon Jul-09-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message

2. Lucky for them, they're in a union...

they'd be SOL if they weren't.

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napi21

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Mon Jul-09-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message

3. Were they told IN ADVANCE they could NOT leave their job for this

Edited on Mon Jul-09-07 12:56 PM by napi21

purpose, were they fired for taking the time off and not punching out, or was it something else?

I'm just asking, because that statement isn't specific enough.

To add, my husband works for a supermarket chain, and unless you have permission, and follow the direction of wether you must sign out to go to something like that, he'd be fired too! It's not a secret and all the employees know what they have to do.

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Mike Daniels

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Mon Jul-09-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #3

6. From the article it appears that the company allowed people to take time off

to watch the procession.

However, these two didn't punch out thereby charging the company for time when they weren't actually in the office.

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napi21

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #6

10. If that's the case, they KNEW better. Think about it. If every employee

had to make the decision to punch out (thereby not getting paid time to watch the precession) what kind of a revolt do you think that employer would have? Some employees are just not quite happy no matter how generous an employer is!

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Barrett808

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #3

13. "Polly's employees were encouraged to view the procession."

But they were expected to punch out.

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Commie Pinko Dirtbag

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Mon Jul-09-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #13

39. So, in essence, they encouraged people to screw themselves out of money?

Fuck Polly's then. I hope they lose.

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TexasLawyer

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Mon Jul-09-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message

4. employer abuses

My 17 year old works very hard (for minimum wage) at a movie theater.

She is forced to clock out for her 15 minute breaks, and even had to clock out a few weeks ago while she was getting first-aid treatment for burns she received-- on duty-- from the popcorn machine.

What is the world coming to?

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Benhurst

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Mon Jul-09-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #4

7. It's the miracle of the marketplace.

Root, hog, or die.

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Orrex

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #4

14. Was she treated on-site?

If she was in the building, then it's dumb that they made her clock out, and it's stupid from a risk-perspective, too; what if she suffered additional injury while on the property?

But if she were taken to a hospital, then I can sort of see why they'd want her to clock out, since even a routine ER visit can take six or eight hours. She should definitely be paid through the end of her shift, though.

I hope she's all right, by the way!

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RaleighNCDUer

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #14

19. Unless you really screw up and grab or lay your arm on the popcorn

machine you are not going to get an ER worthy burn - I've worked in theaters for years and burned myself on popcorn machines many times - put a little antibiotic on it, cover it with a gauze bandage, and go back to work. The idea of clocking out for something like that is absurd - it takes longer to get to the time clock than it does to treat the burn.

Now if the burn was severe - and I can see how it MIGHT happen - sure, but that would be the end of the shift anyway, going to ER. If it's treatable at work, it's just silly.

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Orrex

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #19

25. I once cooked two of my fingers on a grill

October 28, 1995, as a matter of fact. I wound up in the local ER for several hours, but that's a lot different from a popcorn maker.

Let me reiterate that I think it's stupid for several reasons if they made her clock out while being treated on the premises, however slight her injury.

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TexasLawyer

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Mon Jul-09-07 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #14

32. she never left the building-- just treated with the first aid kit

It was just half an hour or so, but its the principle of it that made me mad. She's OK. Just a big blister-- one of many. They've moved her to "the floor" since she and the popcorn maker had become enemies.

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Bluzmann57

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #4

18. Clocking out for breaks is excessive

But clocking out for an emergency is SOP. It has to do with liability and also the length of time it can take in ER's. I have been through stuff like that before, but since it was a Union shop, I did indeed get paid through the end of my shift.

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SoCalDem

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #18

21. Clocking out for breaks makes people take shorter breaks

If "clocking out" is just sliding your card in the closest register, it's no biggie..but if it's walking halfway acrosss the building, that's another thing. If companies have a 10 minute break rule, and employees stretch their unclocked breaks into 20, I can see why they are told to clock out..

as for the funeral..

If one is at work, they should be working, not watching a funeral procession. If they wanted to go, they should have asked for the time off.. Most places of business are scheduled pretty tight these days, and to have three people awol, puts the burden on the people who did not go.

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LostinVA

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #4

24. The latter is illegal

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sneakythomas

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Mon Jul-09-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message

9. Funny thing

OK, I'm in business. Excuse me for expecting the people I'm paying to be working. I notice from the article that the complaint came from other workers who clocked out. So it would seem that if people wanted to view the procession on their own time they had company permission to do so, but they didn't have permission to be paid for it. And the people who elected not to be paid didn't take too much to somebody else drawing pay for what amounts to time off. I can't say I blame them.

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Orrex

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #9

12. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

If I'm reading things correctly, the issue appears to be the outright firing of the employees rather than taking some other measure (docked pay, disciplinary action, etc.) Was there some pre-existing policy about this kind of thing? Why, for example, did some employees know that they had to punch out, but not others?

Certainly the employer should be able to expect that a worker on company time will be doing actual work, but what measures are in place to correct possible abuses of the policy?

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RaleighNCDUer

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #9

17. So when the complaint is made, management takes the employee

aside and say "Look, I know you just stepped outside, but you should have been off the clock. I'm adjusting your timesheet to show you were out for that hour." To which the employee says "Well, do what you gotta do". "Right then. Don't do it again."

One of them was a 31 year employee. The other, a newbie. Neither would have any reason to suspect they'd be fired for it - a good manager talks to his employees. There are ways to fix this short of just firing them. Firing them is way excessive, unless this has been a repeated problem - which is not mentioned in the article.

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Commie Pinko Dirtbag

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Mon Jul-09-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #9

40. You nmiss the fact the company OPENLY ENCOURAGED people to watch the parade

while forcing them to clock out if they went.

They left the employees between a rock and a hard place. If they go, they lose money. If they don't go, they're seen as unpatriotic.

Fuck Polly's.

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Bluzmann57

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:11 PM
Response to Original message

16. Ok, from a staunch Union guy...

Edited on Mon Jul-09-07 01:32 PM by Bluzmann57

These two employees were in effect, stealing time from the company. If they had permission to view the procession while off the clock, then there is no problem. But since they were on the clock and apparently did not recieve permission to watch while on the clock, they are unemployed. Employees are expected to perform a service and in turn, employers are expected to pay said employees for the services performed. If the duties of the employer did not include giving paid time off for strangers funerals, then the company has every right to fire employees. I'd be willing to bet that somewhere in the Labor-Company contract, there is a section, or at least a sentence or two covering this very situation.

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Mike Daniels

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #16

20. At my company, we get paid time off to attend funerals of certain relatives.

Edited on Mon Jul-09-07 01:24 PM by Mike Daniels

That time off doesn't count against vacation or personal day time. If the deceased doesn't fall under that list we can still take time off but it comes out of personal or vacation time.

I'm willing to bet that there's a similar policy in play with this company.

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Bluzmann57

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #20

23. We have a similar policy

In fact, I have had an excused day or two because a dear friend of mine passed a few years ago. I didn't get paid, but it didn't count against me either. Same with my cousin a short time ago. Now if it were parents, grandparents, children, including step children, or spouses, I'd get paid. That's what a Union can do for employees.
It does not appear that this was the case with these two employees, however. Either way, there should be communication from both sides.

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Xithras

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #16

22. I agree

Note that the other employees clocked out, and that the original complaint was generated by their co-workers. The co-workers were upset that they'd followed policy and clocked out to watch the procession, while these two chose to ignore policy and attempt to collect pay.

I do agree with another poster that this alone shouldn't be grounds for termination, but we do not know the previous work history of this pair. If this was their first infraction, a warning and a pay-dock should have been sufficient. But if these two regularly bend the rules? It may indeed be grounds for termination. There's not enough information here to make a fair call.

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gorbal

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Mon Jul-09-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #16

34. Still not a good enough reason to fire them

I understand if they did this all the time, but for one occasion, even two, no. They should just have to pay the money back. I am glad I don't have to punch in where I work, It's hard enough for me to remember to sign in.

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Purveyor

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:43 PM
Response to Original message

26. Here is a link to the 'original' Jackson Cit Pat reporting on this story.

http://www.mlive.com/news/jacitpat/index.ssf?/base/news-21/118355799270010.xml&coll=3

I might add, this 'firing' is not going over well by the Jackson customers of this local grocery store chain.

This could very well spell the demise of this company considering the local mid-michigan economy has already put a strain on local retailers.

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Mike Daniels

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #26

29. If that's the actual way it went down then it sounds like the company may have over-reacted

As with most stories of this nature there's probably more to both sides of the issue though.

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SayWhatYo

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message

28. I'm going to support the employees on this just...

just because so many here don't seem to care about them and the fact that they are how going to become homeless and probably end up starving to death.

A bit over-dramatic? You betcha! ;)

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Purveyor

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Mon Jul-09-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #28

30. The one worker was a 31 year employee with the company...

Some wonder if he was close to 'retirement'...

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HuffleClaw

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Mon Jul-09-07 02:27 PM
Response to Original message

31. screw them

WHY they left is irrelevant. funny how they are trying to use this as an excuse. had they left to get their dogs shampooed or to attend a kids birthday party this would NOT be news. fuck 'em.

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JVS

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Mon Jul-09-07 05:50 PM
Response to Original message

33. 300 car procession? Who died, Generalissimo Stalin?

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ohio2007

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Mon Jul-09-07 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #33

35. somebodys son died.

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JVS

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Mon Jul-09-07 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #35

36. True. It still sounds like a hell of a lot of cars.

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slampoet

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Mon Jul-09-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #36

37. Michigan has cars. Get over it.

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BikeWriter

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Tue Jul-10-07 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #37

44. Do we know you?

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Odin2005

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Mon Jul-09-07 07:55 PM
Response to Original message

38. What a stupid reason to fire someone.

Jeez, sounds like the workers just forgot to punch out. If I was the supervisor I would just corrected the mistake and reminded the employees that they should of punched out

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Ian David

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Tue Jul-10-07 06:37 AM
Response to Original message

42. Polly's is a big supporter of Ed Royce (R-CA)

Edited on Tue Jul-10-07 06:37 AM by IanDB1

Maybe someone should ask Mr. Royce what he thinks of this? Or The Black America's PAC (7% to Democrats, 93% to Republicans)
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.asp?strID=C00300921&Cycle=2006

Search Criteria:
Donor occupation: Pollys
Cycle(s) selected: All
http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?key=2zjvm&txtState=(all%20states)&txtEmploy=Polly's&txtAll=Y&Order=N

Wait a minute... Black America's PAC gave money to... George Allen????
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.asp?strID=C00300921&Cycle=2006

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BikeWriter

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Tue Jul-10-07 07:42 AM
Response to Original message

43. UFCW? Those folks are my Union Brothers.

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BikeWriter

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Tue Jul-10-07 07:52 AM
Response to Original message

45. Something like that it would be easy to forget punching out...

I wonder how many times over the years they've worked when not on the clock?

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kikiek

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Tue Jul-10-07 08:43 AM
Response to Original message

46. Seems like an overblown reaction to me. I wonder if all the employees are union. I agree they should

have just adjusted their clock. Calling them thieves is over the top.

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noamnety

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Tue Jul-10-07 09:54 AM
Response to Original message

48. for those who didn't click the second link

Klimmer, who has worked at Polly's for 31 years, said he and Wahr went outside several times to see if the procession had started yet. While outside, they did paperwork, including checking invoices and order books. Then they went back inside each time to continue to do work in the store, he said.

"It wasn't like we were sitting in lawn chairs, waiting for two hours, having a beer and a cigarette," Wahr said.

When they heard word that the procession was definitely on its way, it was about 12:30 p.m., and they clocked out for their lunch break and watched the procession go by, Klimmer said.

http://www.mlive.com/news/jacitpat/index.ssf?/base/news-21/118355799270010.xml&coll=3&thispage=1

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