U.S. patients choosing Mexican hospitals for price, quality

Source: Dallas Morning News

Like vacations in sparkling Cancún or Cabo San Lucas, health care in Mexico is becoming high-quality, cheap and convenient, advocates say. As more Americans go without heath insurance or feel the pinch of managed care, some are making a run for the border for treatment ranging from routine care to live-saving procedures.

Two North Texas-based hospital chains, Christus Health of Irving and International Hospital Corp. of Dallas, are tapping into a need and an opportunity by providing in their hospitals in Mexico what their executives say are the best of both worlds – U.S.-quality health care and relatively low Mexican prices.

(snip)
Mexico is on average 40 percent cheaper for basic surgical procedures, Mr. Warner and officials for both hospital companies said.

(snip)

For now, most Americans coming to Mexico for health care are considered "medical refugees," as in the case of Mr. Woods, 43, a network engineer. He visited a Christus Muguerza hospital in Monterrey last Christmas and stayed with his wife's relatives there. He had looked into getting laser eye surgery close to home, but the cost made that impossible, he said. U.S. doctors wanted to charge him $4,000, Mr. Woods said, but he paid $1,500 in Mexico.








Read more: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/072807dninthospitals.36608c1.html

Turn the world into a bigh, happy, freewheeling free market and it isn't only jobs that get outsourced. Services do too! Why shouldn't countries within easy flying distance of the US capitalize on our idiotic resistance to providing universal healthcare? Just part of the great World Party! Everyone benefits, except for those too poor to afford flights, hotels and...oh yes...hospital bills.

Have to do with medical costs in Mexico? People aren't going to Mexico for free healthcare, they go because it's less expensive.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but people are going overseas because the cost of healthcare is unaffordable here. I don't think many would choose to fly abroad for procedures if the same ones were available in the US for comparable cost. And what's the best way to keep the cost of healthcare down here? Remove it from the hands of the profiteers is as good a place to start as any.

Who is making the investment in equipment and facilities in Mexico if there is no return?

They're working off a lower cost base, so their prices can be commensurately lower. Temporarily. Eventually, demand will drive prices up until they are near US levels. Costs will inevitably follow. Meanwhile, other countries will outsource the same services, until their prices rise too. The glory of "competition" will ensure the cycle continues until an equilibrium is reached and everyone in the world gets to pay a fortune for healthcare.

What's happening is not a solving the problem, merely exporting it.

"Eventually, demand will drive prices up until they are near US levels. Costs will inevitably follow."

That might be true. If the supply of medical care was fixed. But that's simply not the case.

The Health Care professionals do fine, just as they do in the rest of the civilized world that has single-payer health care...

By the by, I found this egregious bullshit at a web site advertising trips to Mexico through Travelocity!!!

"Many countries have what is called “single payer” cheap health insurance. Affordable health insurance for everyone comes out of taxes. If you get sick, you are automatically covered. It doesn't work that way in America because we value individual freedom, tax rates less than 70%, and less government control. Without health insurance, a serious but treatable illness could be a financial death sentence. This is why it is important to always be insured."

Don't they READ THEIR OWN SHIT????

http://www.traveltrotters.com/you-need-health-insurance-when-you-travel.htm

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I sent this email to travelocity:

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I'm amazed that you posted such incredible disinformation about health care and didn't notice the INCREDIBLE cognitive disconnect you displayed.

You say that "Single-Payer Health Care is affordable" because everyone shares the load and if you get sick "you are automatically covered". Then you immediately follow that with the incredible statement "It doesn't work that way in America because we value individual freedom, tax rates less than 70%, and less government control." <and 47 MILLION uninsured and more millions underinsured> But that's not enough, you immediately say "Without health insurance, a serious but treatable illness could be a financial death sentence."

DAMN, you really don't get it, do you??? You're ready to defend a system that can and does leave 18,000 people a year in the United States with a REAL DEATH SENTENCE and many millions more with a financial death sentence.

Truly disgusting. If you're that clueless about health care I must assume that you're equally clueless about travel. So don't expect me to patronize your "service".

Outsourcing would mean hospitals were being shut down here, doctors fired, their salaries depressed and facilities reopened elsewhere - which clearly isn't the case. It doesn't even make business sense from the perspective of the medical industry (they stand to lose ginormous profits). Not to mention that with the aging boomer population, there is need for MORE doctors and hospitals, not fewer. This is really a question of access and affordability - why shouldn't uninsured people be allowed to go to Mexico for life-saving or life-changing therapy which they can't afford here? This is a situation where globalization works in favor of the US worker. Of course, it might decrease health-care access for the (even poorer) Mexican worker.

Re #8 -- Entanglement -- It sounds like you are not very familiar with the health care industry in this country as a patient (read "consumer" as far as the Medical Industrial Complex is concerned) or as a person who works within the system. I have been an RN for many years and currently work as a case manager in a public hospital. NY State passed a law at the end of last year (Berger Commission) calling for closure of several upstate NY hospitals & nursing homes and privatization of 2 public hospitals. The constitutionality of the bill has already been challenged in several lawsuits. The notion of privatizing publicly paid for facilities & services so that a small number of individuals can profit is beyond treason. Health care in NY State has deteriorated steadily over the past 10 years. There were several years when I could not afford health insurance, and I worked in a hospital as an RN!!! The hospital at the time had started cutting benefits & wages of nursing staff and was very aggressively conducting an anti-union campaign. The CEO decided to screw the largest # of workers so that the hospital could meet its bottom line & show a profit. Nice, huh? Happens all the time, Union or no Union, but at least with a Union, you get to have a contract which is negotiable rather than having no recourse at all.

Access and affordability are definitely concerns when you are sick or have been in an accident. Every time I turn around, there are insurance glitches and restrictions that literally interfere with the medical standard of care & treatment as well as people being unable to pay for $7500/month cancer drugs that their insurance doesn't cover & the doctor says they will die if they don't have. These kinds of situations come up every day. Hospitals now have to set up Utilization Review departments staffed by RNs who have to go to patient floors every day to review care given to patients so that they can report back to the insurance companies who then decide whether or not they will pay for the hospital services. Guess what. Hospitals also have to hire people to fight the enormous number of generally very arbitrary insurance denials. You're not a whole lot better off with insurance in many cases because the copay or nopay costs are enormous and there are extremely limited or no resources out there to help.

I have also worked on the "Dark Side" for the insurance industry and you don't want to know how badly people are screwed over and have suffered for no good reason other than Big Insurance, Big Pharma and Big Medicine profits.

SICKO says it right and very accurately. The medical "export" industry has been around for a while and I remember seeing threads about outsourced medical care in the past on this forum.

Health Care in this country is in critical condition and single payer, universal health care WITH NO FOR-PROFIT INSURANCE INDUSTRY INVOLVEMENT is the only thing that can save it. HR676!! Call your reps to push it through!

:hi: and Welcome!! :D

:dem:

Nurses rock. :yourock:

Brief Summary of HR 676

· The United States National Health Insurance Act establishes an American national health insurance program. The bill would create a publicly financed, privately delivered health care system that uses the already existing Medicare program by expanding and improving it to all U.S. residents, and all residents living in U.S. territories. The goal of the legislation is to ensure that all Americans will have access, guaranteed by law, to the highest quality and most cost effective health care services regardless of their employment, income, or health status.
· With over 45-75 million uninsured Americans, and another 50 million who are under- insured, the time has come to change our inefficient and costly fragmented non health care system.

Who is Eligible

· Every person living in or visiting the United States and the U.S. Territories would receive a United States National Health Insurance Card and ID number once they enroll at the appropriate location. Social Security numbers may not be used when assigning ID cards.

Health Care Services Covered

· This program will cover all medically necessary services, including primary care, in patient care, outpatient care, emergency care, prescription drugs, durable medical equipment, long term care, mental health services, dentistry, eye care, chiropractic, and substance abuse treatment. Patients have their choice of physicians, providers, hospitals, clinics and practices. No co-pays or deductibles are permitted under this act.

Conversion To A Non-Profit Health Care System

· Private health insurers shall be prohibited under this act from selling coverage that duplicates the benefits of the USNHI program. Exceptions to this rule include coverage for cosmetic surgery, and other medically unnecessary treatments. Those who are displaced as the result of the transition to a non- profit health care system are the first to be hired and retrained under this act.

Cost Containment Provisions/ Reimbursement

· The National USNHI program will set reimbursement rates annually for physicians, allow for "global budgets" (annual lump sums for operating expenses) for health care providers; and negotiate prescription drug prices. The national office will provide an annual lump sum allotment to each existing Medicare region; each region will administer the program.

· The conversion to a not-for-profit health care system will take place over a 15 year period. U.S. treasury bonds will be sold to compensate investor-owned providers for the actual appraised value of converted facilities used in the delivery of care; payment will not be made for loss of business profits. Health insurance companies could be sub-contracted out to handle reimbursements.

Proposed Funding For USNHI Program:

· Maintaining current federal and state funding of existing health care programs. A modest payroll tax on all employers of 3.3%. A 5% health tax on the top 5% of income earners. A small tax on stock and bond transfers. Closing corporate tax loop-holes, repealing the Bush tax cut.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/what-can-i-do/petitions/pnum649.php

to tell Congress to take action. Insurance clerks are paid modestly, but the execs make millions. Other forms of insurance in which human lives and health are not at stake can remain for profit. The health insurance company is a business model in which profits are made by denying service. There are four health care lobbyist for each member of Congress. We the people have to take a stand.

I am going to have a hard time making my health insurance payment this month (since the company that owes me money was bought out by a big one that isn't going to pay me promptly at all).

I found out that my individual policy provides Blue Cross with a 27 percent profit and doctors and nurses have sued the company for denying claims because of supposed inaccuracies on the application (after having taken the premium dollar payments for years). I have catastrophic and am paying so much per month that I won't be able to have a physical or tests that I should unless my ship comes in, but I guess this insurance is worthless since the company lacks integrity (or doctors and nurses wouldn't be suing). Wonder how much more the CEO is going to make this year?

Quite a few jobs are being "in-sourced" to Mexicans here in America.

:shrug:

Was your question rhetorical?

It is cheaper BECAUSE the prices are set by a single payer.

The overhead rate is much smaller with a single payer. Think of all the time spend filling out insurance forms, complcations of billing etc. The price can be the same and still save something like 30% with a single payer. I also expect that wages will go up if companies don't have to pay health insurance, as increases in fringes have taken a lot of the salary increases recently.

... be getting the business instead of the ones in Mexico.

Just another outsourcing of American bucks brought to you courtesy of Bush and his few remaining supporters. Bush took all the refs off of the field of American capitalism. Dubya's father actually had to bribe and pull strings to get the kind of crony deals that made it possible for Dubya to "succeed" in "business." But Dubya as president made corrupt capitalism possible for anyone. People and money have been voting with their feet ever since. As with everything Dubya touches, he has dirtied American capitalism.

and the doctor was wonderful. It cost me $30. I had a raging case of food poisoning and the doctor was able to help me even though I wasn't a citizen, had no appointment and was in no mood to speak Spanish. That, and the drugs he gave me were cheap!! $10 for three prescriptions. I have INSURANCE here, and three prescriptions costs me around $45.

...because they were so much cheaper there.

I'm assuming they also have hospitals in Texas, yes?

So what is keeping them from instituting the SAME price ranges in the State?

This just proves that these medical corporations inflate and FIX prices in the US, and the american consumer has no option (other than driving to Mexico) but to pay these price-gouging bastards.

and is closing down his practice in Phoenix, why? He is paying over $200,000 a year just for malpractice insurance here and just pennies in Mexico. And what's the difference? Fewer lawyers!
Mexico has a state sponsored system of arbitration as opposed to the out of control litigation in this country!
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/331/7514/448

There has NEVER been any sort of move by any of the medical groups to crack down on the BAD doctors. If anything, just because someone has a piece of paper that has *Medical School* on it -- they get protected. THEY have the backing of the AMA against patients who have been crippled for life - or died.

If the meds policed themselves and set up some redress for the REAL VICTIMS perhaps their insurance wouldn't be through the roof? This screaming about lawyers is absolute bullshit.

Fuck em -- let him go to Mexico. But don't allow him to re-open an office if single-payer health care goes through. :grr:

The Mexican system is set up to allow "redress for the REAL VICTIMS" without the need for the "AMA" or some lawyer from an infomercial airing at 2am getting involved. A Mexican government paid for board of arbitration, with it's own medical experts, presides over a claim. When a settlement is determined no lawyer gets 1/3 to 1/2 of the proceeds plus expenses for so called "expert witnesses".

And it's not just the settlements that cost. Someone posted that Dr.s "want" to have all that fancy new equipment to make more money. Dr.s spend millions on equipment, labs, tests and personnel for record keeping to protect their ass in case they are sued.
Ask your attorney about arbitration, contingency fees and the British system of loser pays if you want to see a meltdown.

It isn't the entire answer, but as long as we are looking to other countries for solutions it is one of them.

Good luck to your doctor, but patients without valid claims suing docs aren't the reason malpractice insurance is so costly. It's the patients with REAL CLAIMS who were ignored by their doctors and or other medical providers until they hired a lawyer. It's a myth that fake victims are driving the cost.
http://www.ahrq.gov/qual/errback.htm
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/newsroom/newsroom_show.htm?doc_id=313141

I am talking about real people with real problems. I'm talking about lawyers with rainmakers, billable hour scams and fee splitting kickbacks with "expert witnesses" that take 1/3 to 1/2 of a settlement plus expenses. I said that the actual settlements are only part of the expense of litigation, it's also the expenses involved in protecting your ass in an adversarial system.

Ya know, Michael Moore should look into the legal profession!

certainly sounded like it. Yes, the adversarial system means that settlements are larger because lawyers take a cut, but I repeat --the way binding arbitration is structured in this country does not favor individuals and therefore the adversarial system is a necessity.

Of course, if we had national healthcare the system could be restructured when it came to medical errors and there would be a national interest in reducing medical errors in the first place.

...universal payer would immediately drop costs.

But one of the immediate benefits would be the elimination of lawyers again. Presently you can sue a private insurance carrier for denial of benefits. However, for example, you can only sue Medicare if they agree to be sued. Anything that reduces costs would help make health care more affordable.

the latest in x-rays machinery, etc., in his own office. That way they get the money for treatment AND testing.

That friggin' equipment costs lots of money. And that cost is passed on to the patient.

Not all the problem, but a lot of it.

This is a large part of the problem.

plan that I no longer have.

Our company will pay for most work done in Mexico, medical and dental and many times will waive deductibles and co-pays. My wife just had $4500 worth of bridge work done in Rocky Point for $1700 and our plan paid the entire bill. We do buy most of our prescriptions there too, just watch for counterfeits.

I realize that most people can't take advantage of this type of care, but for many in Arizona it's a day trip to Mexico, and the shrimp from Rocky Point are unreal.

Illegals and their barely legal kids get subsidized care and the uninsured middle class have to go to Mexico to afford care....There is something wrong with this picture bet I just can't put my finger on it. :crazy:

That's another whole thread, but don't even try to get into an emergency room here. It's one of the costs that has to be passed along.

Nurse practitioner in El Paso-at the hospital that is literally right across from the border-the one where you can step outside and see that big assed Mexican flag (I didn't know they made flag poles that supported flags THAT big). You CANNOT believe the number of Mexican National women that come into the ER dilated to 9-10 cm, barely able to walk, with no history of prenatal care or Doctor,-pop and drops we called them. That American birth certificate is gold. It is such a drain on our health care system. I am not bigoted or anything-just telling it like it is.

Oh dear...