Legal but in Limbo, Skilled Immigrants Rally for Change

Source: Washington Post

A brainy and buttoned-down crowd of about 1,000 legal immigrants, many of them first-time protesters taking time off from research labs and computer consoles, gathered on the West Lawn of the Capitol yesterday to politely demand a swifter and surer track to permanent U.S. residency.

Legal-immigrant groups had set their hopes on comprehensive immigration reform proposals that circulated in Congress in the spring, but those measures collapsed in June amid a wave of public opposition to provisions that would have offered a path to legalization to an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States.

"Why should our problems be held hostage to the issue of illegal immigrants?" asked Aman Kapoor, 35, a computer programmer from Florida who heads a national advocacy group called Immigration Voice. "We are law-abiding, taxpaying future Americans, and Congress is turning us into underachievers."

Perhaps the most dynamic speaker was a British software engineer and designer named Mark Bartosik, 38, who wore a pinstripe suit and carried a sign that said he had paid more than $385,000 in federal and states taxes since he arrived in 2000.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/18/AR2007091801944.html

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We have spent much time discussing illegal immigrants and Mexican truck drivers. Here is a group of legal immigrants who want to move on down the path towards becoming citizens eventually.

So far, people are against illegal immigration, and against legal immigration.


What's left?




Outsourcing.


If we don't fix the problem, that pinstripe paying $385,000 in federal and states taxes will have to leave the country.


And his job will follow him wherever he goes.



Just something to keep in mind.

that Lawmakers keep trying to pass "one size fits all" type legislation, lumping the illegal with the legal, most Americans realize that is NOT the way to fix anything. Until they get serious about enforcing the current immigration law, securing our borders (notice the plural) and recognizing that they must find better alternatives for those who have taken all the legal steps needed, its unfortunate that this kind of inequity will continue.

Frustrating isn't it. Few here will admit to being against immigration (too racist and xenophobic), but many will oppose every specific program for allowing foreigners to enter the country legally, e.g. H1-B visas, Mexican truck drivers, temporary workers, etc. There is always a "bigger picture" involved that that causes them to oppose the legal entry of foreigners into the country under a specific program, even though, of course, they are in favor of immigration in principle. ;)

The Washington post reporter actually added up the numbers wrong. I held a sign that listed Fed, State, SS separately, plus USCIS / INS fees, and immigration attorney fees. However, the mistake was not big, the point was still well made.

Also another minor error, my house is "powered by solar" INCLUDING the heating.
Indeed it is not just zero energy I provide more to the grid than I use even after heating. I haven't added up the cost of the system, but think in the order of $150,000 plus. Also most of the system was made in the USA, that was a criteria of mine. I can post photos if anyone doubts. It is also the largest residential installation in the USA. Installing a system that generates more power than I use is bad for me financially but that's not my motivation.

I can say with absolute certainty that in 2000 when I moved to USA that the budget for my and all the overheads was moved from London to New York, because I was wanted in NY more.
I can also say with absolute certainty that they (big international media company) would like me to move back to UK now, and my budget will move with me, and that overhead budget that pays part of someone else's salary too.

I can say that with absolute certainty that I have not replaced or undercut any American workers. I'm not putting my salary details here, but I did provide W2 to some reporters (with SS masked). Also I do not work in NYC (where one expects higher salary), I live and work on Long Island.

The reason that I'm highly paid is that it is hard to find the right people sometimes.

I am working on a cartoon that clearly explains the two main problems with high skilled immigration.
I would love to engage in the debate here on this. I'll check back in later when I have the cartoon ready, a picture tells 1024 DWORDs (techie joke).
As an insider a "probationary immigrant" is the best legal description (not yet an immigrant until I get a green card), I know a lot about it, I can see a lot of what is right and what is wrong.

Popular commentators such as Mr Dobbs focus on only 2 big issues.
On the H1B quota issue, I do not know if he does not understand or is willfully not addressing some of the complexity that caused the problems.
His solutions risk making it worse.

I thought of the clear picture while talking to a journalist.
I plan to turn it into a cartoon.
Once I've done that and shown you it I would really like to discuss with you guys.

I have to say that I found it thrilling to be part of a grass roots campaign for a few days in DC, this is what democracy is about.

I also have friends that have come here on H1B and left out of frustration or been forced out by the system. In each of these cases it was a net loss for the USA.

I also understand about the abuses in the system and companies like InfoSys. And I have solutions for this, solutions that I have not heard proposed anywhere before. If you have a sick child you take it to the hospital, not the grave yard, most solutions I've heard are the grave yard approach.

Anyway I'm real busy (I have to get back to earning the money so I can pay those taxes :-) -- and I am most happy to pay them too.)


So do you want me to leave ????

and welcome to DU!

Your post belongs on a a separate thread as an original post.

My best wishes to you and all others who aspire to immigrate legally into this country.

:kick:

I have not posted enough replies to start a new thread. When I have my cartoon drawn, I would like to start a thread / debate.
If I still have not amassed enough posts I'll ask you to start the thread on my behalf. Or ask admin to allow an override.

Over the past few days I think that I really have worked out a workable solution to this whole problem.
By this I mean not just the long wait times for green card, but also the misuse of H1B to first out source and then off shore (I think InfoSys does this).
Essentially a win win win, most "solutions" I've seen are loose loose loose.

I am a volunteer for Immigration Voice we are likely changing the name to Legal Immigration Voice, despite our signs saying "legal" some still thought we were not. Understandably Immigration Voice does not wish to be associated with H1B quota or the other major issue, because it drowns us out.

So for the moment at least these will be my personal opinions.

I'll be back when I've got my cartoon drawn.

thanks for your support.

Welcome to DU and thanks for the personal insight.

all the H-1 visa holders pay social security and medicare taxes (besides local, state and federal taxes).

And they dont get to use any of the social security benefits once they leave the country.

And once the jobs are outsourced (because of the bottlenecks in legal immigration), these taxes will also disappear.

You cannot claim unemployment because if you are unemployed you are "out of status".
You cannot claim Medicare if you are here either.
Worker's comp you probably can claim, but only if injured and not made unemployed as a result.
If you don't pay into SS for 40 quarters no way of claiming benefits.
But visas do not last for 40 quarters without special extensions, and bills are pending to make renewing difficult by technical means.
If you pay into SS for 40 quarters, then you might get something at retirement depending on the country (there are mutual agreements with some countries).

Of course my SS payments are maximum because of the cap on SS.

Another hidden tax is that I have to work as a third party consultant (for technical reasons), and thus the intermediary makes a percentage (for doing almost nothing) and pays taxes on that too. The figures that I quoted (at the demonstration) did not including any Medicare, Worker's comp, or intermediary percentages.

Also I met several other guys in similar positions, one with 6 patents and 5 pending and US citizen daughter, another with PhD.
We worked out it will take the PhD guy 20 years to get a green card from the, from the point that he started his Masters here (Bachelor's from India).

Everyone's story is different but there is a common thread with many high skilled legal immigrants.

who are fired because of a cheap foreign based job supply. See
http://www.noslaves.com/
for further info.

in the US of resisting immigration. The Irish were probably the first objects of scorn. They were followed by Italians, Chinese, Eastern Europeans, Vietnamese, Indians, Hispanics and others. They have all been opposed by elements in our society as threats to American jobs and prosperity, yet each group in the long run have proven to make positive contribution to our economy and our society. I see no reason not to expect the same from the immigrants coming here today.

Is your opposition to immigration limited to highly skilled workers or does it include lower skilled farm and construction workers and truck drivers?

snip "OUR PURPOSE
NOSLAVES.com is a coalition of men and women from all walks of life in the United States who share one objective, to stop the trading of US citizens as commodities for cheap foreign labor. We share our experience, create solidarity of strength and present a platform of national policy solutions in unity so we may solve our common problem of Americans being treated as commodities for sale in an unequal global labor market. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop the trading of American labor for a foreign labor force. There are no dues or fees for membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. NOSLAVES.com is not allied with any group, sect, denomination, political party, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy beyond our objective, neither endorses nor opposes any other political agenda. Our primary purpose is to stop the treatment of American citizens as tradable commodities in the global labor marketplace." snip

I am for American workers doing American jobs and will not support any H1B visa holder when I know that person is replacing an American worker.

The system is complex, I will try to explain.....

H1B is a DUAL INTENT visa. It can be used as a TEMPORARY visa or as a path to an IMMIGRANT visa.


Here is the TEMPORARY use example:
e.g. come here, learn more, take that to another country and possibly take inside knowledge jobs etc. with you.
Companies like InfoSys use this in a way that many say are bad for the USA.



Here is the IMMIGRANT use example:
Come here
Start green card process
Step 1, apply for labor certification. This is intended to "test the labor market" to ensure that no suitable US resident is available.
For me this step took 1272 days to process the paper work. TOO SLOW. It took 8 months to gather the required documentation.
One might think that Dept Labor had plenty of time to check that no suitable US person was available.

Step 2, check that employer can pay proposed salary. Typically slow processing causes this to take 1 year.

Step 2.5 wait wait wait wait for years

Step 3, apply for greencard using certifications from step 1 and 2.

Step 3.5 wait wait wait for years


We i.e. me Mr pinstripe and all those protesting are in the IMMIGRANT example.

Our protest is mostly about the wait wait wait wait for years. We are quite happy that labor certification is done, and it should be.

So I would be interested to know if you are against the IMMIGRANT example use of H1B?

When I have my cartoon ready to explain the problems I will like come to your site.
I am eager to engage in some reasoned debate, and to test out my idea for a win win win solution.

I would prefer not to use the word slave, understandably some African Americans could be quite offended by this.
I would rather describe it like being required to sign a no compete agreement, trouble is HOW LONG for?

Do you also believe in the divine right of kings?

after all, that too is a right passed on only to descendants.

Did it occur to you that by denying these people residence you in fact condemn them to a worse wage slavery and, to make maters worse, do not save any American jobs in doing so because the jobs move offshore?

snip
OUR PURPOSE
NOSLAVES.com is a coalition of men and women from all walks of life in the United States who share one objective, to stop the trading of US citizens as commodities for cheap foreign labor. We share our experience, create solidarity of strength and present a platform of national policy solutions in unity so we may solve our common problem of Americans being treated as commodities for sale in an unequal global labor market. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop the trading of American labor for a foreign labor force. There are no dues or fees for membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. NOSLAVES.com is not allied with any group, sect, denomination, political party, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy beyond our objective, neither endorses nor opposes any other political agenda. Our primary purpose is to stop the treatment of American citizens as tradable commodities in the global labor marketplace." snip

If you object to that, too bad.

but there are MANY skilled workers here right now and they entered legally and are working their asses off.

If we have a line to enter this country, they should be in front!

snip
"OUR PURPOSE
NOSLAVES.com is a coalition of men and women from all walks of life in the United States who share one objective, to stop the trading of US citizens as commodities for cheap foreign labor. We share our experience, create solidarity of strength and present a platform of national policy solutions in unity so we may solve our common problem of Americans being treated as commodities for sale in an unequal global labor market. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop the trading of American labor for a foreign labor force. There are no dues or fees for membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. NOSLAVES.com is not allied with any group, sect, denomination, political party, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy beyond our objective, neither endorses nor opposes any other political agenda. Our primary purpose is to stop the treatment of American citizens as tradable commodities in the global labor marketplace." snip

If they are taking the place of American workers, I object.

I know people working here for almost ten years and they are productive members of society. They entered legally, pay their taxes and do a damn good job.

I say get the people that have been here a while green cards, and decide the future of the program...including tighter requirements for whom the corporations can hire. Yes, it is obvious corporations are looking to abuse it and bring in people that will work for less...and I definitely agree that should be stopped.

But I'm not sure you are looking for a just solution, instead just promoting a website with a nativist stance.

With the CIR debate earlier, people were talking about having to wait 6 years for a green card.

Wow, I would love that. A green card in only six years, yes please. Legally, here since 2000 and waiting since 2001. I'm GUESSING that I'll get mine next year (I've thought that before though), but for many of my friends it will be another 10 years! That's why I have stood up.

Where is the back of the line? Currently we think that it is about 15 years for people who apply today.

Now I have stood up and spoken, I can see that I am not just doing this for my friends or because it is right, but I also feel motivated to do it for my country (yes this country).

And an increase both the number of visas, and ability of visa holders to become permanent residents.