Pelosi Vows to Push Ahead With Genocide Measure

Source: NY Times

By BRIAN KNOWLTON

WASHINGTON, Oct. 14 — The House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, insisted today that she would bring to a vote a resolution condemning the mass killings of Armenians in Turkey nearly a century ago as genocide, even as a Turkish general warned that this could cause lasting damage to a military relationship crucial to American forces in Iraq.

A House committee on Wednesday approved the nonbinding resolution declaring the killings, which began in 1915, , as genocide, and Ms. Pelosi, the California Democrat, reiterated today that “I’ve said if it passed the committee that we would bring it to the floor.”

But in Ankara, the Turkish military chief, Gen. Yasar Buyukanit, said that if the full House passes the resolution, “our military relations with the United States can never be the same,” Reuters reported. “The U.S. shot its own foot,” he told the Turkish newspaper Milliyet.

General Buyukanit’s comment came just days after Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan cautioned that bilateral relations with the United States, a key partner in NATO, were endangered. Turkey has recalled its ambassador from Washington for consultations.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/washington/14cnd-turkey.html?hp

WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?



Turkey Shells Iraq Border Areas Amid Incursion Talk



ARBIL, Iraq (AFP) — Turkish troops Sunday sent shells crashing across the Iraqi border into several villages in the autonomous Kurdish region, officials said, as Ankara prepared to ask MPs to approve a ground incursion.

Residents of a village near the northern Iraq border town of Zakhu fled after shells slammed into their homes and farms during a day-long bombardment that caused major damage but no casualties, Kurdistan regional government spokesman Jamal Abdullah told AFP.

"From this morning until early evening there was a Turkish attack on villagers near Zakhu," Abdullah said. "There were no casualties but lots of damage and many families fled to safer areas."

An army officer had earlier told AFP on condition of anonymity that cross-border shelling in a number of areas began Saturday around 10:00 pm (1900 GMT) and carried on sporadically into Sunday. Most of the shells landed in open land, he added.

A witness said the shells hit around villages in the Al-Amadiyah area about 15 kilometres (nine miles) from the frontier and 50 kilometres northeast of the town of Dohuk.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that he was ready to brave international censure should his country decide to deal ruthlessly with Kurdish rebel bases in Iraq.

A government bill seeking the go-ahead to launch an incursion any time in the next year is expected to be submitted to parliament after a cabinet meeting on Monday.


Link: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h5nv5iE6rzZQvJbbf_mOPcTGwx7Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWdZT-0Wl8I

I guess she thought she was elected to send a stern message to the Ottoman Empire

1.) Create the connection of Turkey and genocide.

Simultaneously....

2.) Virtually ignore an impending disaster with Turkey.



The only thing I can think is they want Turkey to invade.


We armed the PKK.

We have not supported Maliki to work with his neighbors for peace.


What other possibilities are there?

I just have this weird feeling that a false flag op is planned.

Yeah, there are problems being "reported" with us and turkey. (funny how quickly that came on) however, turkey will invade or whatever they do militarily and "Iran" will bomb them aka the CIA.

At which point the US will claim that since Turkey is a part of NATO, the we must come to the defense of them and put all existing issues aside.

just in my bones...

apparently both Clinton and bush, when running, said they would acknowledge the genocide, and then both backed off due to pressure from Turkey. Turkey should just acknowledge it and move on - although it might open them up to paying reparations? I dn't know, very few survivors left.

That condemns all the Chickens Shit Democrats in Congress for letting America be destroyed by GW Bush!!!

:shrug:

and the Italians (Romans) eradicating Jews in 70 AD. And while were at it - the Japanese in China in the 30's. On and on it could go. Of course it was a human tragedy, but it most certainly not worth wrecking chances for peace today.

To make herself appear busy while actually doing nothing.

Speaker Pelosi is about as useful a hole in the head.

Nice thoughtful liberal/progressive or whatever you call yourself :(

our immediate focus should be on the millions of Iraqis we are killing, and set aside a century old crime while people who are alive today are in peril? Particularly since this bravado may spell further modern loss of life.

Perspective. If this would bring the lost Armenians back, or their killers to justice, it would be one thing, but everyone involved is dead. Let's help those who can be helped.

You do realize that Armenians have been fighting for this recognition for 40 YEARS right?

Since when are we killing "millions" of Iraquis?

You are using exaggeration rhetoric to dismiss the 1.5 MILLION Armenians who were slaughtered for no reason by the Turks!

OMFG - you didn't just say what you said in the last sentence. Why don't you say that to a Jewish person on this board? Why? Because you would be banned in 10 seconds flat, that's why.

Your post is thoughtless concerning the 1.5 million people who were killed. Do you actually think the Congress is going to do nothing else other than discuss Iraq if this resolution is not passed? That's ridiculous and you know it. Ever hear of budgets? Ever hear of SCHIP, immigration, CONDEMNING MOVEON FOR GOD's SAKE.

Your throwing the Armenians under the bus in such a flippant way disgusts me to no end!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

genocide victims will be saved by Pelosi's new-found courage? How many of their tormentors will be punished?

It is supreme hypocrisy to allow contemporaneous suffering, war crimes and death while fighting for a symbolic victory which will save no one.

The debate is not about the Holocaust victims, but thousands of people would die weekly for a symbolic condemnation of the Germans, I'd feel no differently. It is insanity to revive old hatreds at the expense of the living. You may want to do that, but I think what is happening now is more important.

I care about ALL of those things - why on EARTH do you INSIST on implying that one vote among hundreds is going to stop all of the good on that the Congress could otherwise do!!!!!!!!

Your arguments are simple-minded and don't account for the fact that the Congress does this sort of thing all the time.

The imbeciles voted to condemn MoveOn for God's sake!

It clearly does not stand on its own. Turkey has responded, so the scope of the resolution is not confined to the condemnation alone. Some on the pro resolution side have speculated that this is a complicated and extraordinarily risky maneuver on the part of the Speaker to end the war. That's another issue.

Second, about every other post here compares the atrocity against the Armenians to the Holocaust. It may be a valid comparison, but it certainly adds another issue.

The very problem with the resolution is that it is not proposed in a vacuum. It cannot be discussed sensibly out of the context of modern priorities and consequences.

If you want to discuss it sensibly, then do so.

from members of Congress like the Speaker. Sadly, and sickly, the Speaker apparently she believes fighting century old battles is more important than here and now.

But you are acting like you don't have the sense to see it!

I'm flabbergasted at your inability to see the possible win-win in this situation.



Is Pelosi not getting a HELLFIRE of hate thrown at her?

Why?

Think about it.


Think.


Think.

if you think this will cause the end of the war we don't have anything else to discuss.


You may have the last word.

my DIL is armenian and i've heard all of the stories...:hug:

that someone doen't just think of this as an "inconvienience" to them.

Means "witch".

It's long past time for there to be recognition of this genocide, and many others.

I care. But then I realize that injustice against one group is injustice against us all. Too many people ignore the Roma genocide or treat it like a footnote to the "real" holocaust for me to ignore what happened to the Armenians.

I support Pelosi in this measure, both morally and also for the political implications of this statement.

not their relatives know what happened to their relatives during this time. Hitler exterminated 6 million Jews after the extermination of Armenians, after all Hitler said who will remember the Armenians.

But again, the * regime is conducting its own genocide on Iraqi civilians will we ever admit this when the time comes when Iraqis come forth and say the US did conduct genocide or ethic cleansing and will we admit it.

plus the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed at the turn of the century during the decline of the Ottoman Empire -- many of whom were killed by Russians and other Christians in the East. Our their lives irrelevant?

Your focus on the Armenian Genocide is noted-- it was a crime. But so too was the wholesale slaughter of Muslim civilians living in the Balkans, Crimea, Caucasus, and Eastern Anatolia. Where is the Congressional Statement on that?


Until there is a decent answer to those questions--I'm going to focus on the task at hand.

there are far more important matters at hand than to be wasting time and energy
on some ancient historical event that 99% of us in America has never heard about nor could care less about.


Get us the FUCK out of Iraq first, THEN you can start worrying about Armenia. We need to deal with our own damn problems FIRST. Let the Armenians deal with their won fucking problems. We got enough to worry about.

Oh, because they lie about it even when it's going on. Turkey was not a genocide, Rwanda was not a genocide, Romani and Homosexuals in Germany was not the "real" Holocaust, what happened to Indians in the Southeast US was not a genocide, etc. Nat'l Geographic did an excellent article on genocide throughout the ages. Read it.

And closing their airspace would have that effect, or at least make it much more difficult, and the judgement would be rendered by Middle Eastern people, not Democrats who would be blamed for "losing the war"

I'm baffled all the posts here that seemed so confused about this, its as plain as day.

not somehow backfire.

as I think the Repugs will have the mantra of not supporting the troops agains.

This will also have the side-effect of making it difficult for us to murder any more Iraqis by cutting off a critical supply route.

The killing of Iraqis is one of the arguments the deniers want to use against recognizing the massacre of 1.5 Million Armenians.

This post has shown that some here are only concerned about a particular political outcome and could give a crap about the suffering of Iraqis now and 1.5 million Armenians then.

I am disgusted :mad:

This makes perfect sense.

Now if she would just change her stance on impeachment ....

Instead of passing the declaration as some humanitarian gesture Nancy should come out and say "since nothing else we've done to stop the war has worked we decided to alienate a NATO partner over a 90 year old issue in order to get them to shut down out access to their airfields.

The thing is we've got all these people saying Mahmoud Ahmadinejad should be overthrown and invaded, and we use the fact that he questions the holocaust as evidence of his nuttiness...At the same time we shake hands with Turkey who's doing the exact same thing with the genocide of 1.5 million Armenians only a couple decades before. Really Nancy is just pointing out a big double standard which is pervasive in our foreign policy in the middle east, which I think needs to be overcome resolve things in the middle east. Its subtle, but I think its basically a step in the right direction.

The Armenian Holocaust.

You can go to jail for 20 years by the (military run) courts for saying so in public.

How is our little client state, Turkey, better than Iran again?

PS -- Oh, in response to any Holocaust exceptionalists who may be reading this -- discussion of the
Holocaust in Europe is officially frowned upon because it is used as samizdat for discussion of the
Armenian holocaust.

Maybe they're looking for creative ways too throw a wrench in the gears of GW's Iraq strategy. Maybe, not a bad idea.

A militaristic, authoritarian pseudo-democracy like Argentina and Brazil in the 60's which had virulently modernistic, anti-Muslim and anti-Arab cultural origins. All we wanted was a place to launch missiles from and close off the Bosporus. We were planning to put short-range missiles there before the Cubans did the same, prompting a brush with WWIII.

Still, the future will be worthy of :popcorn:. Kettle corn flavored. :9

We still have Kuwait. "If" this is her intention I think she needs to rethink it. This will likely make things alot worse.

if it makes it harder for Bush-Cheney to pull off an attack on Iran?

Basically, I think what Pelosi expects is a dance with Turkey, including drama-queenery that could threaten the airspace, or revoke it temporarily. The dance would essentially start with Turkey indignant, then accusing America of its own shit, past and present. America would then have to "atone for its sins", which presumably have already been decided upon, and would be things that need to be changed in our foreign policy that both Turkey and Dems secretly agree upon...Probably involving human rights, the torture question, and other things. The attonement would normalize relations, though I'm not sure when this would occur...which is to say if Turkey really wants to shut down its airspace long term. But after America had confessed to innapropriate action present and possibly past (genocide of native americans hundreds of years ago?) and Turkey had as well, there would be a forgiveness, and an acceptance of bad history and letting it go. Supposedly, this group "confession of sins" is designed to start a larger peace process in the middle east and also isolate Ahmadinejad in his holocaust denial, while putting heat on Bush to figure out the war.

But this is just wild speculation, I really have no idea what's going on!

See how it all ties together with the purpose of the resolution, which is to educate ignorant fellow citizens who don't care to remember "something that happned a hundred years ago" like slavery or genocide or Enlightenment-era totalitarian movements?

That's why. If you don't think this is important, they tell the Jews that the holocaust wasn't important because "that was a long time ago". Yeah, 1.5 million is mere chicken feed - a generic "genocide" - right?

C'mon, is this taking away from your favorite cause? Do you think the Turks, now about to slaughter the Kurds (and have been for many years) is something we should ignore or try to play down by not doing the right thing for "political" considerations?

The hypocrisy of this place is infuriating me! :mad:

I do care about all genocide but NOT Nancy playing games with Armenians and that is what she is doing

and if Bill Clinton had cared he would not have stopped this either

This issue is not new, but it never should have been allowed to be skuttled by a foreign power just because of the fear of "hurting their feelings" or interferring with our relations with them.

What are the Turks afraid of?

The TRUTH.


That's what...


Politics or not, this is the right thing to do and this is the right time to do it. Bush want's to play with fire?

GOOD! Bring it on!!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

But, there's a reason why this is only being addressed now, and that reason is probably political. You said it yourself, this is a 40+ year issue. Why only right now, when Turkey is threatening to deploy forces against Kurdish rebels is this resolution passed? Seems to me someone saw Turkey on the edge and decided to give them a little nudge...

I am no fan of Turkey - what can I say :shrug:

Looking at their treatment of the Kurds should give you an indication of how the Turks have traditionally dealt with "foreign" cultures within their borders (or not in this case - they even want to hunt them in Iraq).

also raped, tortured, dying from cholera, etc.

But let's not let one tragedy allow us to ignore another one that will take very little of the Congresses time. Of course we should be doing more in Burma and I am totally disgusted that we are not doing more as a country to put pressure on China who has some influence there. But lets not conflate two entirely different matters for the sake of political machination.

Why is she thinking about a genocide that happened a hundred years ago when one is happening right now in Iraq? It makes no sense. I hope I'm just missing something. Some secret strategy that's brilliant because right now she looks like an idiot!

Really. Iraq is, thanks to us, in a brutal civil war. The government is not rounding up whole villages and slaughtering them.

As for the fact that it happened 90 years ago, the Jewish holocaust happened 60 years ago. Yet any one who tries to deny that or say it doesn't matter gets crucified here (rightly). The Armenian holocaust was just as bad - not in numbers but in sheer brutality - people tied together and thrown into rivers to drown, only one person shot in order to save on bullets, one dead body dragging the others under. Rivers changed course due to the pile up of corpses. Horrific. You wouldn't be so blase if you knew anything about it.

your spamming is annoying, to say the least.

The point is that the result could just as easily be a US action into Turkey on behalf of the Kurds. If, and that's a big if, this is the Speaker's intention, it is misguided. This is no way to end the war, there are too many variables, it's insane.

The Kurds are good peaceful people.

The Burmese are good peaceful people.

The Iraqis are good peaceful people.

Armenians are good peaceful people.

The Turks as represented by their current leadership are not.

We certainly can't let the Kurds get slaughtered by the Turks, can we?

...and as YOU have implied, it may be our opportunity to have an "excuse" to come to the rescue of the Kurds.

Are you deliberately being obtuse or what? ...or do you just like to argue?

I am Armenian and I hate the war in Iraq and I can relate to the Kurds as they are currently suffering much like the Armenians did. What part of my compassion for the innocent don't you comprehend?

betray the weakness of your position. As one argument is defeated, you raise a new one. Then you make it personal. If you had anything left, you'd use it.

If you believe the US should go to war with Turkey then argue from that position, but to provoke a confrontation in the manner you suggest is as criminal as the original invasion of Iraq.

since the beginning. Do you think the Turks will NOT invade and kill the Kurds if we cow-tow to their whining?

NO!

The Turks are going to kill the Kurds no matter what we do. I am for this resolution because it is the right thing to do for Armenians. IF (and you forced me down the path of alternative benefits/failure) it also puts the spotlight on the Turks BEFORE they invade and start killing Kurds, then we will NOT be able to claim we were caught of guard and have no excuse not to protect the Kurds. Unless you support the Turks in this oil for Kurdish lives & land trade-off?

Apparently you want to end this conversation now by claiming "victory"

"oops, sorry, it's too late to recognize that over 1 mil of you were slaughtered?"

I think this is all just a ploy by BushCo, they can blame the end of the war in Iraq on Turkey's non-cooperation re: airbases. Easy way out for them. :shrug:

The official reason why the resolution came to a vote now is as follows:

The resolution has been introduced every year. Every year it was blocked, most times by the Republicans leaders who controlled the House. At least once, it was blocked at Pres. Clinton's request. This time, Pelosi said she would let it come to a House vote if it passed Committee. That provided the incentive to push it through committee.

The human rights abuses by the Romans at the Coliseum!

Now, that's something that we really need to address!

As long as we give all reparations to living slaves who were wronged. Im 150% for that!


But in reality, what the hell does a piece of paper condemning something do? Lets live in the present people!

The present income gap between Blacks and Whites...

The present Huge Gap in assets between Blacks and Whites...

The death penalty...and how it's applied to Blacks more than Whites...

The present education gap between Blacks and Whites...

Red-lining, racial profiling, the disproportionate number of Blacks in jails and prisons...

The present unequal protection under the law.


All legacies of Slavery...



Yeah, let's DO live in the present people and recognize how the fuck we got here!!!

Hey, Nancy - listen UP.

Just how does congress legislate away people's prejudice?

I would guess most white parents would have a problem if thier daughter brought home a black man.


I would also guess most black parents would have a problem if their son brought home a white woman.





People, of all races, have a natural disposition towards pre-judging someone based on looks. We all do it. Until you can legislate that away, congress isnt going to be able to do much about it. It is going to have to be education.

today i read it had something to do with armenian lobbyists and i wonder if this is true.

i think very honestly america needs to rebuild her world image, before congress can pass another piece of legislation condemning another nation.

I like it...

from the same article:

On the ABC News program “This Week,” Ms. Pelosi was asked the tough question at the core of the debate: What if forcing a vote on the resolution were to endanger the security of American troops in Iraq?

“Some of the things that are harmful to our troops relate to values — Abu Ghraib, Guantánamo, torture,” said Ms. Pelosi, whose San Francisco district includes thousands of Armenian-Americans. “Our troops are well-served when we declare who we are as a country and increase the respect people have for us as a nation.”

Pointing to a 20-year history of votes on the Armenian matter being deferred by war or geopolitical considerations, she said, “There’s never been a good time.”

Ms. Pelosi made other points: President Ronald Reagan had referred to the killings as genocide; aging Armenian survivors will soon be dead; and 23 other countries have declared the killings genocide.

It's really odd.

I'd guess it has something to with Turkey and our military contracts there, use of airspace, basing etc..

At this point it hard for me to guess which side she is on. If she wants to squeeze the president in Iraq, destroying our relationship with Turkey might be a good option. But it would not be a logical one, considering that outside of the resolution, Nancy is not doing anything to stop the war.

One thing that I've found fiends, is that when you are faced with a person that you just cannot figure out,,,, and I do hate to say this,,, but you might have to consider that maybe they're clueless.

I think this is Pelosi's way of forcing US troops home from Iraq!

You know, the one going on now that you are complicit in?

And who are the victims?

If America were commiting intentional and willful genocide against Iraqis, there would be far more dead Iraqis.

How many would be enough to satisfy you?

And how many have been killed by Americans?

There is no willful, deliberate attempt by America or American troops to eliminate Iraqis. This war was a mistake, the military and private contractors can be negligent or even criminal in isolated incidents, but there is no genocide.

This kind of rhetoric just makes the anti-war movement look silly.

"This kind of rhetoric just makes the anti-war movement look silly."

You're one to talk about being silly.

The genocide will simply be masked by the passage of time.

The international legal definition of the crime of genocide is found in Articles II and III of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide.

Article II describes two elements of the crime of genocide:

1) the mental element, meaning the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such", and

2) the physical element which includes five acts described in sections a, b, c, d and e. A crime must include both elements to be called "genocide."

Article III described five punishable forms of the crime of genocide: genocide; conspiracy, incitement, attempt and complicity.

http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide/officialtext.htm

-----------

Note the mental element must be present. It clearly is not.

However, many legal experts and other scholars, disagree with the restrictions on the currently accepted legal definition of genocide.

But regardless of legal nuance, the death and misery inflicted on Iraq by the United States government, rivals most instances of legally recognized genocide. Factor in the effects which are sure to come as a result of contamination by uranium oxide and other toxic elements used by the US military in Iraq, and the result could easily turn out to be the most egregious crime in history. When inflicting death, destruction and contamination on this scale, the subtle differences between legal definitions and reality become meaningless.

And that is really the point of those who have improperly utilized the term 'genocide'. They recognize the blatant and shameless hypocrisy of pointing fingers at others, at the very moment that we ourselves are engaged in a fit of violence that has resulted in the deaths of perhaps a million people.

are not the same as the deaths of Iraqis since 2003.

There is a huge difference, maybe you should ask a Holocaust survivor about that.

They're just Arabs, right? Muslims to boot. They don't count, am I right?

:sarcasm: if needed.

What The Fuck is all this downplaying of the Iraqis?:wtf:
Genocide Fucking Schmenocide. I'm sick of it. There are people dying NOW!:think:

I sure hope so.

does not explain the timing.

The question has widely arisen: Why this, why now?

The answer is that congressmen from parts of California and a couple other states with large Armenian populations pushed it through.

The purpose of Congress is not to resolve historic disputes - it is to minimize deaths that are occurring today.

suggest that the idea is to force Turkey into ending its military cooperation with the United States. In order to continue the occupation of Iraq, the U.S. relies on Turkey to provide the use of its airbases, airspace, etc. Without access to Turkey the occupation would end.

Apparently there is precedent for this: France passed a similar resolution last year and Turkey cut off military relations.




Edited to add: in addition, this explains why Bush is so dead set against the resolution.

This could all be complete nonsense of course.

if they do invade and our troops get caught in the middle and it escalates she will be blamed. We are not going to give up those oil fields. It is a horrible game of chicken if that is what she is doing.

They are already doing it.

I am worried about escalation and a major blowup

is that I haven't heard it yet. My curiosity is killing me. What/who are the factions, and what are their selfish interest?

I do not believe that is true, and if I am right its falseness negates this theory about why this resolution now. We invaded Iraq without Turkish fly over or base support, if we are using Turkey now, it is as a convenience, and is not essential to our logistics. A google reveals that your theory is in fact making the rounds of the internets, but as far as I can tell, the assertion of 'essential logistical support' is made without explaining how the original invasion and occupation managed to occur without this essential support.

As far as I know, our logistical support is dependent on the land route from our bases in the gulf, and has been since the start of the war and occupation.

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She is pushing a thing to make a few of her constituents feel better about something in a historical context, meaningless in the face of what many other nations have done historically, and forking up international relations with a country for no good reason.

This reminds me of something that Cheney/Bush would do, NOT something a pragmatic democrat with decent judgment would pursue.

I'm and more and more unimpressed with her day by day.

...and needs to rally the Armenian American vote for herself in '08.

he will be almost out of office anyway.

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.Turkish General Warns U.S. on Resolution

By SEBNEM ARSU
Published: October 14, 2007

ISTANBUL, Oct. 14 —

How ironic that the Turks are said to have utilized Kurdish mercenaries to carry out their evil intent.

How ironic that Ms.. Pelosi is choosing to condemn the mass killing which reportedly began in 1915, about midway through our own government's genocide of indigenous Americans that began a half century earlier and ended a half century later. Maybe Turkey should pass its own resolution recognizing these crimes for what they are.

Meanwhile Ms. Pelosi won't help impeach our own mass killers...

Irony abounds

which together, account for millions of victims. Or the sanctions against Iraq, which are known to be responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of women and children. Indeed, civilians were specifically targeted, with the hope that the resultant hardships would prompt an overthrow of the government. And don't even get me started on the current orgy of mass murder in Iraq.

Americans are so predictable, with their need to point fingers at others, while at the same time ignoring their own atrocities. Always are they able to point out distinctions, which somehow justify their own crimes against humanity. Our own government is responsible for more death, destruction and chaos during the last 60 years, than perhaps most other countries combined.

I think it is likely that Ms Pelosi is advancing this issue, because of a strong Armenian lobby, but this is definitely an issue for historians, not the US congress.

To make herself appear busy while actually doing nothing.

Madame Speaker is about as useful a hole in the head.

Is that they expect Nancy to be shrewd politically about this measure, etc.etc. They don't want her to act out of idealism, throwing logic out the window.

But when it comes to her actions on Iraq and Impeachment, they expect her to be an idealist and throw logic out the window.

You people are about as consistent as the weather.

In addition, Turkey is Israel's only friend in the region. This misguided resolution will only play into the hands of the Islamic radicals in Turkey.

How about Pelosi endorsing slavery reparations?

You know we've known Pelosi a lot longer than most of you, she's been congresswoman here for 20 years and has consistently supported human rights causes all along.

Some people forget how hard she worked to get congress to take action regarding China's human rights abuses.

Pelosi doesn't give a shit about human rights.

There hasn't been any abuses in Armenia for a 100 years.

Her priorities are totally backwards to say the least.

This reeks of political maneuvering.

I find everyones sudden found pragmatism to be DISGUSTING!

Yeah, but Israel having a friend in the ME is more important than Armenians having a simple statement of acknowledgment of my family's suffering (yes, we left Turkey to escape the killing).

Suddenly DUers are all in a huff about "Islamic radicals" - oh come the FUCK on!

The hypocrisy here is making me very very angry.

hypocrisy is just as disgusting. If she showed the backbone she is on this issue to save people who are still breathing and punish criminals who can be imprisoned, this would be a courageous stand. In context is is pandering.

by injection, I am doing this for my daughter's sake, they are 1/4 Armenian. I have called everyone and his brother to get on their congress critters. I've written faxes, emails, etc. because this is important. So sorry the timing is bad for some DU'ers. :sarcasm:

The hypocrisy over HR106 on DU is fucking APPALLING.

Can you believe the hypocrisy of some here? Yikes!

My children are Armenian and Jewish - you can imagine how it feels sometimes!

if Turkey would just come clean and admit they did exterminate Armenians, we could move on, Turkey could then be admitted to the EU, other countries have not given Turkey admission due to their stubborness to not admit want they did. The facts are there, check here:

http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Genocide/armenian_genocide.htm


this has to do with us and Turkey being our allies, and kissing up to Turkey so we could use their airspace for continuing our invasion on an innocent country, really ironic isn't it? Just my opinion, I do not trust the Turks and who knows what their alternative motion is, maybe they want Northern Iraq oil fields just my opinion.

including people like Barbara Lee, Tammy Baldwin, Jesse Jackson Jr., Pete Stark, etc.

that the Resolution is not misguided, only should not take a priority over current suffering, death and war crimes.

Some people are able to view situations as more than binary. To those people the world is a complicated place. A resolution can be correct, while at the same time there are more pressing concerns which must be addressed immediately.

but it's different from the one I responded to, which called the bill "misguided."

And attempted cultural genocide of ALL non-Turkish peoples in Turkey, most of whom lived there thousands of years before the Turks did, including Greeks, Cappadocians, Orthodox Christians, Armenians, Kurds (aka Medes, as they are called in the Bible), etc. These people are still a majority of the Turkish population, but officially, Turkey is 99% Sunni muslim and 99% Turk. Turk is defined as people who speak Turkish, which is pretty much the only language it is legal to speak since Ataturk came to power. He modeled his "modernization" and "assimilation" efforts on what we did to the American Indians.

Ataturk's mission was to consolidate and defend what was left of the Ottoman Empire by making it "ethnically pure" and ethnically cleansing everyone who was left behind defensible borders, which the Sultan had never attempted to do.

As an Armenian, it's actually making me very angry with a lot of people here who are suddenly more interested in politics that what is right!!

Are these same people going to say "the timing just isn't right" when gay rights are concerned?

Are these the same people going to now agree that it's in the best interest of the country if Bush is not impeached?

Are these same people going to acknowledge that Hillary's strategy of looking hawkish is a winning one?

I HIGHLY doubt it.

I could go ON AND ON concerning the utterly DISGUSTING hypocrisy of many poster here, but I'll just stop for now.

I am PISSED! :mad:

timing, and truthfulness.

A supposed reason congress can't confront the current critical issues is that it is too burdened with more important measures. If that were indeed true, century old war crime would be lower on the list of congressional priorities than current war crimes. In other words, this is a diversion.

If the Speaker is acting for her local constituency, then that's well and good, but she agreed to be the Speaker of the House. If national priorities are truly secondary to her local demands, it is time she step aside and allow someone with a national agenda to assume her post. In fact it is past time.

LOL

war until 1917 and this happened w/o US involvement. People get killed in wars and unfortunately civilians, sometimes systematically. Why is she sticking her nose into business that didn't concern us then and shouldn't concern us now. Next thing you know she will be apologizing for the Confederacy. Turkey is our NATO Allie why stir up old wounds which will do nothing to influence current events in the region.

So, people's right's (my family was forced to immigrate to the US to escape the murderers) are irrelevant if the US wasn't involved?

WHAT?

Of course you are just kidding.

Right??

and nothing against Armenians. Nothing we say or do now is going to change or revise that period of history. Lots of people came here to escape persecution, thats what founded our early colonies.Hopefully people have learned from that black chapter and move on but apparently it is not so. There are active genocides going on right now that need our attention.

Well, since nobody in the US government has ever apologized for slavery or even built a Slavery museum on the Mall, it's a fair point.

First, whatever you call it, the Turks treated the Armenians in just the very worst way.

But it wasn't these Turks.

If it takes Congress to make historical fact real, we're in real trouble.

But this is a century long grudge match, getting even with people today for what someone did
100 years ago.

This is not just an Armenian thing, of course. But it's wrong in every instance.
People who really care about genocide, per say, should be demanding Congress do something
about Burma, for example.

It's a sign of weakness on her part. But, hey, she's just fooling around with one of our most
delicate and important relationships.

It's getting tedius.

but this doesn't seem to be driven by Pelosi and her determination to recognize the Armenian genocide. I would guess the US political Establishment is up to something in regards to Turkey.

Yeah, by the holocaust's standards, that's just chicken feed - a generic genocide - right??

:mad:

in the act though.

Just as bad...

Like Turkey did -- recently?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HE00106:@@@P

Rep Abercrombie, Neil - 1/31/2007 Rep Ackerman, Gary L. - 1/31/2007
Rep Allen, Thomas H. - 1/31/2007 Rep Andrews, Robert E. - 1/31/2007
Rep Arcuri, Michael A. - 7/18/2007 Rep Baca, Joe - 1/31/2007
Rep Bachmann, Michele - 3/1/2007 Rep Baird, Brian - 3/12/2007
Rep Baldwin, Tammy - 1/31/2007 Rep Barrow, John - 6/20/2007
Rep Bean, Melissa L. - 1/31/2007 Rep Becerra, Xavier - 1/31/2007
Rep Berkley, Shelley - 1/31/2007 Rep Berman, Howard L. - 1/31/2007
Rep Berry, Marion - 1/31/2007 Rep Bilbray, Brian P. - 3/12/2007
Rep Bilirakis, Gus M. - 1/31/2007 Rep Bishop, Sanford D., Jr. - 1/31/2007
Rep Bishop, Timothy H. - 4/19/2007 Rep Blumenauer, Earl - 1/31/2007
Rep Bono, Mary - 1/31/2007 Rep Bordallo, Madeleine Z. - 6/21/2007
Rep Boyd, Allen - 6/28/2007 Rep Brady, Robert A. - 3/12/2007
Rep Braley, Bruce L. - 4/19/2007 Rep Butterfield, G. K. - 6/28/2007
Rep Calvert, Ken - 1/31/2007 Rep Camp, Dave - 6/7/2007
Rep Campbell, John - 1/31/2007 Rep Cantor, Eric - 1/31/2007
Rep Capps, Lois - 1/31/2007 Rep Capuano, Michael E. - 1/31/2007
Rep Cardoza, Dennis A. - 1/31/2007 Rep Carson, Julia - 6/28/2007
Rep Christensen, Donna M. - 7/10/2007 Rep Clarke, Yvette D. - 4/16/2007
Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy - 1/31/2007 Rep Cleaver, Emanuel - 1/31/2007
Rep Conyers, John, Jr. - 1/31/2007 Rep Costa, Jim - 1/31/2007
Rep Costello, Jerry F. - 1/31/2007 Rep Courtney, Joe - 5/14/2007
Rep Crowley, Joseph - 1/31/2007 Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 6/28/2007
Rep Davis, Artur - 6/26/2007 Rep Davis, Danny K. - 1/31/2007
Rep Davis, Lincoln - 1/31/2007 Rep Davis, Susan A. - 1/31/2007
Rep DeFazio, Peter A. - 1/31/2007 Rep DeGette, Diana - 2/5/2007
Rep Delahunt, William D. - 1/31/2007 Rep DeLauro, Rosa L. - 1/31/2007
Rep Dent, Charles W. - 1/31/2007 Rep Diaz-Balart, Lincoln - 1/31/2007
Rep Diaz-Balart, Mario - 1/31/2007 Rep Dingell, John D. - 1/31/2007
Rep Doggett, Lloyd - 1/31/2007 Rep Doolittle, John T. - 1/31/2007
Rep Doyle, Michael F. - 1/31/2007 Rep Dreier, David - 1/31/2007
Rep Ellison, Keith - 2/5/2007 Rep Engel, Eliot L. - 1/31/2007
Rep Eshoo, Anna G. - 1/31/2007 Rep Farr, Sam - 1/31/2007
Rep Fattah, Chaka - 1/31/2007 Rep Ferguson, Mike - 1/31/2007
Rep Filner, Bob - 1/31/2007 Rep Fortuno, Luis G. - 10/4/2007
Rep Frank, Barney - 1/31/2007 Rep Frelinghuysen, Rodney P. - 1/31/2007
Rep Garrett, Scott - 1/31/2007 Rep Gerlach, Jim - 1/31/2007
Rep Gillibrand, Kirsten E. - 7/18/2007 Rep Gonzalez, Charles A. - 1/31/2007
Rep Green, Al - 3/1/2007 Rep Green, Gene - 2/5/2007
Rep Grijalva, Raul M. - 1/31/2007 Rep Gutierrez, Luis V. - 1/31/2007
Rep Hall, John J. - 8/2/2007 Rep Hare, Phil - 1/31/2007
Rep Harman, Jane - 2/8/2007 Rep Herger, Wally - 7/18/2007
Rep Herseth, Stephanie - 1/31/2007 Rep Hinchey, Maurice D. - 1/31/2007
Rep Hinojosa, Ruben - 1/31/2007 Rep Hirono, Mazie K. - 6/20/2007
Rep Hodes, Paul W. - 5/9/2007 Rep Holden, Tim - 1/31/2007
Rep Holt, Rush D. - 1/31/2007 Rep Honda, Michael M. - 1/31/2007
Rep Hunter, Duncan - 4/16/2007 Rep Israel, Steve - 1/31/2007
Rep Issa, Darrell E. - 1/31/2007 Rep Jackson, Jesse L., Jr. - 1/31/2007
Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 1/31/2007 Rep Johnson, Henry C. "Hank," Jr. - 2/8/2007
Rep Jones, Stephanie Tubbs - 1/31/2007 Rep Kagen, Steve - 6/28/2007
Rep Kennedy, Patrick J. - 1/31/2007 Rep Kildee, Dale E. - 1/31/2007
Rep Kilpatrick, Carolyn C. - 1/31/2007 Rep Kind, Ron - 1/31/2007
Rep Kingston, Jack - 6/26/2007 Rep Kirk, Mark Steven - 1/31/2007
Rep Knollenberg, Joe - 1/30/2007 Rep Kucinich, Dennis J. - 1/31/2007
Rep Kuhl, John R. "Randy", Jr. - 6/20/2007 Rep LaHood, Ray - 8/2/2007
Rep Lamborn, Doug - 2/8/2007 Rep Langevin, James R. - 1/31/2007
Rep Larsen, Rick - 6/28/2007 Rep Larson, John B. - 5/24/2007
Rep LaTourette, Steven C. - 3/1/2007 Rep Lee, Barbara - 1/31/2007
Rep Levin, Sander M. - 1/31/2007 Rep Lewis, John - 1/31/2007
Rep Lipinski, Daniel - 1/31/2007 Rep LoBiondo, Frank A. - 1/31/2007
Rep Lofgren, Zoe - 1/31/2007 Rep Lowey, Nita M. - 1/31/2007
Rep Lungren, Daniel E. - 1/31/2007 Rep Lynch, Stephen F. - 1/31/2007
Rep Maloney, Carolyn B. - 1/31/2007 Rep Marchant, Kenny - 2/8/2007
Rep Markey, Edward J. - 1/31/2007 Rep Marshall, Jim - 6/26/2007
Rep Matheson, Jim - 1/31/2007 Rep Matsui, Doris O. - 1/31/2007
Rep McCarthy, Carolyn - 1/31/2007 Rep McCarthy, Kevin - 2/5/2007
Rep McCaul, Michael T. - 1/31/2007 Rep McCollum, Betty - 1/31/2007
Rep McCotter, Thaddeus G. - 1/30/2007 Rep McDermott, Jim - 1/31/2007
Rep McGovern, James P. - 1/31/2007 Rep McHugh, John M. - 8/2/2007
Rep McKeon, Howard P. "Buck" - 1/31/2007 Rep McMorris Rodgers, Cathy - 1/31/2007
Rep McNerney, Jerry - 2/5/2007 Rep McNulty, Michael R. - 1/31/2007
Rep Meehan, Martin T. - 1/31/2007 Rep Meek, Kendrick B. - 6/21/2007
Rep Melancon, Charlie - 1/31/2007 Rep Michaud, Michael H. - 2/8/2007
Rep Millender-McDonald, Juanita - 1/31/2007 Rep Miller, Candice S. - 1/31/2007
Rep Miller, Gary G. - 3/29/2007 Rep Miller, George - 1/31/2007
Rep Mitchell, Harry E. - 6/21/2007 Rep Moran, James P. - 1/31/2007
Rep Murphy, Christopher S. - 5/21/2007 Rep Musgrave, Marilyn N. - 1/31/2007
Rep Nadler, Jerrold - 1/31/2007 Rep Napolitano, Grace F. - 1/31/2007
Rep Neal, Richard E. - 1/31/2007 Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 1/31/2007
Rep Nunes, Devin - 1/31/2007 Rep Olver, John W. - 1/31/2007
Rep Pallone, Frank, Jr. - 1/30/2007 Rep Pastor, Ed - 1/31/2007
Rep Payne, Donald M. - 1/31/2007 Rep Perlmutter, Ed - 3/29/2007
Rep Peterson, Collin C. - 1/31/2007 Rep Pitts, Joseph R. - 6/7/2007
Rep Porter, Jon C. - 1/31/2007 Rep Radanovich, George - 1/30/2007
Rep Rangel, Charles B. - 1/31/2007 Rep Reichert, David G. - 4/16/2007
Rep Renzi, Rick - 1/31/2007 Rep Richardson, Laura - 10/4/2007
Rep Rodriguez, Ciro D. - 6/26/2007 Rep Rogers, Mike J. - 1/31/2007
Rep Rohrabacher, Dana - 1/31/2007 Rep Roskam, Peter J. - 5/21/2007
Rep Ross, Mike - 1/31/2007 Rep Rothman, Steven R. - 1/31/2007
Rep Roybal-Allard, Lucille - 1/31/2007 Rep Royce, Edward R. - 1/31/2007
Rep Rush, Bobby L. - 1/31/2007 Rep Ryan, Paul - 1/31/2007
Rep Ryan, Tim - 1/31/2007 Rep Salazar, John T. - 4/16/2007
Rep Sanchez, Linda T. - 1/31/2007 Rep Sanchez, Loretta - 1/31/2007
Rep Sarbanes, John P. - 1/31/2007 Rep Schakowsky, Janice D. - 1/31/2007
Rep Schwartz, Allyson Y. - 1/31/2007 Rep Scott, Robert C. "Bobby" - 6/28/2007
Rep Sensenbrenner, F. James, Jr. - 1/31/2007 Rep Serrano, Jose E. - 6/26/2007
Rep Shays, Christopher - 1/31/2007 Rep Sherman, Brad - 1/30/2007
Rep Sires, Albio - 1/31/2007 Rep Smith, Christopher H. - 1/31/2007
Rep Solis, Hilda L. - 1/31/2007 Rep Souder, Mark E. - 1/31/2007
Rep Space, Zachary T. - 3/12/2007 Rep Stark, Fortney Pete - 1/31/2007
Rep Sutton, Betty - 3/29/2007 Rep Tauscher, Ellen O. - 1/31/2007
Rep Thompson, Bennie G. - 6/20/2007 Rep Thompson, Mike - 1/31/2007
Rep Tierney, John F. - 1/31/2007 Rep Towns, Edolphus - 1/31/2007
Rep Udall, Mark - 1/31/2007 Rep Udall, Tom - 5/14/2007
Rep Van Hollen, Chris - 1/31/2007 Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. - 2/5/2007
Rep Visclosky, Peter J. - 1/31/2007 Rep Walberg, Timothy - 6/7/2007
Rep Walsh, James T. - 2/8/2007 Rep Walz, Timothy J. - 1/31/2007
Rep Wamp, Zach - 1/31/2007 Rep Waters, Maxine - 1/31/2007
Rep Watson, Diane E. - 1/31/2007 Rep Watt, Melvin L. - 6/28/2007
Rep Waxman, Henry A. - 1/31/2007 Rep Weiner, Anthony D. - 1/31/2007
Rep Weller, Jerry - 1/31/2007 Rep Wilson, Joe - 1/31/2007
Rep Wolf, Frank R. - 1/31/2007 Rep Woolsey, Lynn C. - 1/31/2007
Rep Wu, David - 2/8/2007 Rep Wynn, Albert Russell - 1/31/2007
Rep Yarmuth, John A. - 7/10/2007
Rep English, Phil - 1/31/2007(withdrawn - 3/15/2007) Rep Jindal, Bobby - 1/31/2007(withdrawn - 1/31/2007)
Rep Carnahan, Russ - 1/31/2007(withdrawn - 10/2/2007) Rep Shimkus, John - 1/31/2007(withdrawn - 10/4/2007)
Rep Boren, Dan - 1/31/2007(withdrawn - 5/2/2007) Rep Moore, Dennis - 1/31/2007(withdrawn - 3/13/2007)
Rep Scott, David - 1/31/2007(withdrawn - 4/18/2007) Rep Tancredo, Thomas G. - 4/19/2007(withdrawn - 6/27/2007)
Rep Cuellar, Henry - 6/26/2007(withdrawn - 10/9/2007) Rep Wicker, Roger F. - 6/26/2007(withdrawn - 6/28/2007)

I have to admit I'm amazed. My initial reaction to the news of this resolution going through now was the same as many here: why now?

It was good to hear some of the history behind it, including the point that it has been brought up EVERY year for the last few decades with no action. I hope we continue to recognize all genocide. If this has an effect on this stupid war we are fighting (which I consider a type of genocide...I know, it's different than Armenia), so much the better.

His whole mission was to consolodate Turkey into an "ethnically homogeneous" state. That is why Turkey lies and claims the population is 100% Turk (and it's against the law to claim pre-Turkish ethnic roots) The Turkish (Ottoman) government began doing shit like the Armenian genocide in accordance with and under the direction of the "young Turks" in the military. Ataturk was the leader of the "young Turks" -- the model for future 20th century "military-directed modernization" regimes. Who do you think Turkey is? This is like saying Russia can't be blamed for oppressing people in the Tsarist era and Germany can't be blamed for what happened during the Third Reich because it was a different government ruling a lot more people.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Oh...

never mind...

-------------

However, anything that makes things harder for the illegal occupation of Iraq, and exposes a huge injustice, well hell, I call that a twofer...

You GO, GIRL!!!!

It's simple- nobody believes you any more.

:shrug:

Bush war machine.

redeployment of the US troops.

If that is her objective, it is absurd.

bc knowingly cutting supply lines puts an army at risk. So it has to be done on the sly

.......> http://news.independent.co.uk/fisk/article3052373.ece
14 October 2007 18:09
Robert Fisk: A reign of terror which history has chosen to neglect
Published: 12 October 2007

The story of the last century's first Holocaust – Winston Churchill used this very word about the Armenian genocide years before the Nazi murder of six million Jews – is well known, despite the refusal of modern-day Turkey to acknowledge the facts. Nor are the parallels with Nazi Germany's persecution of the Jews idle ones.

Turkey's reign of terror against the Armenian people was an attempt to destroy the Armenian race. While the Turks spoke publicly of the need to "resettle" their Armenian population – as the Germans were to speak later of the Jews of Europe – the true intentions of Enver Pasha's Committee of Union and Progress in Constantinople were quite clear.

On 15 September 1915, for example (and a carbon of this document exists), Talaat Pasha, the Turkish Interior minister, cabled an instruction to his prefect in Aleppo about what he should do with the tens of thousands of Armenians in his city. "You have already been informed that the government... has decided to destroy completely all the indicated persons living in Turkey... Their existence must be terminated, however tragic the measures taken may be, and no regard must be paid to either age or sex, or to any scruples of conscience."

These words are almost identical to those used by Himmler to his SS killers in 1941.

Taner Akcam, a prominent – and extremely brave – Turkish scholar who has visited the Yerevan museum, has used original Ottoman Turkish documents to authenticate the act of genocide. Now under fierce attack for doing so from his own government, he discovered in Turkish archives that individual Turkish officers often wrote "doubles" of their mass death-sentence orders, telegrams sent at precisely the same time that asked their subordinates to ensure there was sufficient protection and food for the Armenians during their "resettlement". This weirdly parallels the bureaucracy of Nazi Germany, where officials were dispatching hundreds of thousands of Jews to the gas chambers while assuring International Red Cross officials in Geneva that they were being well cared for and well fed.

thanks for posting this - I hope people will read before passing judgement...

Until we acknowledge our own genocides, our own slavery I feel we do little good protesting the genocide of others.

We can't have it both ways. If we are to make statements from the moral high ground, we must actually be standing on that ground.

The Armenians were slaughtered in a horrorific genocide, of that there is no doubt. But where does America assume moral authority when we still owe the descendants of African slaves 40 acres and a mule?

Smallpox blankets for Native Americans? The trail of tears? Arc light raids into Laos and Cambodia? Japanese American internment camps? The list goes on and on.

But collapse on everything else.

Worthless.

...before you pass judgement on "everything else". This is (unfortunately) linked to another pending disaster - the invasion of Kurdistan by the Turks. And it will also force a change in strategy in Iraq due to supply lines being cut if Turkey kicks us out. Still seem worthless to you?

Nothing else has, Bush keeps plodding along with his "vision for victory"

Yeah, I think it would require some work.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cq/20070904/pl_cq_politics/bushsuccessratingathistoriclow;_ylt=Ao22JTv3KLMvji1qACrCOyf4R9AF

President Bush’s success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

The previous low for any president was in 1995, when Bill Clinton won just 26 percent of the time during the first year after Republicans took control of the House. If Bush’s score holds through the end of the year, he will have the lowest success rating in either chamber for any president since Congressional Quarterly began analyzing votes in 1953.

(...)

will not get admission into the EU, other EU countries are keeping score on this.

Here you have a few posts by educated Americans that is getting extremely hostile about this resolution. That is exactly why the US government should stay out of it. The individual congressman can make speeches all they want - but it is not the role of the US Congress to settle 90 year old fights in which the US had zero involvement.

As one African American Congressman recently said, we should be passing resolutions against the genocide of Native Americans inside the US before considering resolutions about something that was not connected to the US.

This issue is going to be used by the Republican Party to show that Democrats are unable to run the country. I can see the TV ads now:

The Democratic House Leadership put US troops in Iraq at risk to try to score points with a few voters.

into Turkey, but isn't it funny, when Turkey did not want us to use their air space??? Allies???

I'm sorry for the Armenians who died during the years from 1915 to 1917. I'm sorry for all of the other victims of useless wars and hostilities that have happened through the ages.
I'm also sorry that Congress may be asked to dredge up these old wrongs that happened so long ago. Is our history so clean?
Why, when the Muslim world is already perceiving so much hostility from us, would we want to create more enemies?
And, why, when we have enough troubling issues in this country, does Congress have no more to do than to pass resolutions? Surely, their time could be spent more productively.

Why is this subject the interest of your first post on DU?

I've been lurking for a long time,and I'm feeling very frustrated. This proposed resolution follows the action of so many Democratic Congresspersons censuring Moveon. It's bad enough having to put up with Republican nonsense. I want something more than rhetoric from our Democratic leaders. I want them to deal with present-day issues, not stir up trouble over something that happened so long ago. We have plenty of skeletons in our own closets if we really want to censure something. It's embarrassing.

I can assure you that 99% of the voters in So. Oregon (Repub and Dems) have NO CLUE what this issue is all about.

All they read is that Pelosi, i.e. the Democrats, are dragging up ancient history because they have nothing more important to do.

I tend to agree.

44. She's doing it to give Turkey an opportunity to shut down the war in Iraq.
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 01:25 AM by lvx35
And closing their airspace would have that effect, or at least make it much more difficult, and the judgement would be rendered by Middle Eastern people, not Democrats who would be blamed for "losing the war"

I'm baffled all the posts here that seemed so confused about this, its as plain as day.



It seems Pelosi is willing to have military families flood into the streets to ask why she is willing to trade "blood for votes".

The army will have to march out of Iraq pillaging all the way to the sea.

Sort of like Shermans army through the south.

I can see a potential opposition forming against her if she plans to starve the army into a quagmire situation by early spring '08. ...just before the DNC in Denver?

Well, I think this thread is worth saving and reviewed a few months from now and see how it actually pans out.

Again, folks on Main Street in My Town won't figure it out.

or maybe some of 'her people' trolled the DU cyber main street for opinions;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3030907&mesg_id=3030907

allowing US newspapers to CALL it a "genocide" without Turks complaining and burning US newspapers
(a la the cartoon Mohammed fiasco, which the Turks have been known to do), then people in Oregon would be more knowledgeable on the subject of 20th century genocide. Or do they only know about the Nazi Holocaust 30 years later? Why bother knowing about one and not the other?

Israel has always sided with Turkey in opposing the resolution in the past. No doubt that has a lot to do with why it hasn't been passed previously.

AIPAC is NOT opposing the resolution this time.

WHY???? Why does Israel want Turkey to go into Iraq?

maybe in order to knock out "an alleged" nuke plant in Syria,
somebody had to look the other way along the Turkish border


http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=193840



http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/10/how-israel-spoo.html


maybe not

Members of the left-wing Workers' Party chant slogans as they wave Turkish flags during a protest against the U.S. and its passing of a bill describing World War I-era killings of Armenians as genocide, in Istanbul, Turkey, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2007. (AP Photo/Ibrahim Usta)






http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/11/world/main3357561.shtml

how's those headlines?

drop our resolution.

Good to see DEMOCRATS are willing to stand up against behaviour from the Turkish government that is the moral equivalent of holocaust denial- even if an astonishing number of DUers are apparently not.

Perhaps Pelosi should resign her seat and join the faculty at Stanford's history department.

As bad as this was, it happened almost 100 years ago, when Turkey was part of the Ottoman Empire.

What is happening in the Sudan is beyond belief. I'm sure that a fraction of the troops currently in Iraq or Afganistan could put an end to it efficiently.

They have oil deals with Sudan. We are already on thin ice over the Congressional recognition of the Dali Lama. We have pissed off Iran,Turkey,Russia and China all in short order recently.
Yes, might as well continue the streak into Africa

Im going to pull for anyone who sticks it to holocaust deniers.

...maybe it's bait to get something like this to happen again, while they have the trap set?

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/10/1346254

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