Two Democrats move to outlaw waterboarding (Biden & Kennedy)

Source: McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON — The practice of waterboarding would be outlawed specifically, along with other extreme interrogation techniques, under legislation pushed by two Democratic senators.

The measures would repudiate the Bush administration’s policy on torture. The CIA reportedly has used waterboarding — or simulated drowning — when questioning terrorism suspects. It’s also used exposure to extreme temperatures and other methods that are expressly forbidden by the Army Field Manual. The proposed bills would require that all U.S. personnel — including the CIA — use only interrogation techniques authorized by the Army manual.

Last month, President Bush’s choice for attorney general, Michael Mukasey, refused to say whether waterboarding was torture and therefore illegal. And an executive order that President Bush released in July on what techniques the CIA could use was silent on whether waterboarding and other extreme measures were among them.

Sens. Joseph Biden, D-Del., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., have offered separate bills that make the Army manual the standard for all U.S. interrogators. All members of the military by law already must abide by the manual. The proposed law would require civilians to do the same.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/21198.html

Nothin' says lovin' like some old time torture.

its not torture.

It has given life to another question that I've yet to get a good "christian conservative" to answer: If its not torture, why are we using it??

will that make waterboarding retroactively legal and let Bush off the hook for crimes committed under the existing law?

...but I think that by pushing this legislation they're just advancing the idea that there's a question about the fact that it's already illegal. This is dumb, in my opinion, unless it actually has an effect on future waterboarding activities by the US.

but I don't understand how it isn't true.

do they get retroactive pardons while the people they used it on get told they weren't really tortured?

Way to run out the clock, fellas.

to vote against the waterboarding iffy AG nominee.

Sheesh!

:nuke:

:banghead:

I think we have to stop expending energy on this non-issue. Waterboarding is already illegal, they are trying to say that what they are doing is not water-boarding. Let's keep our eye on the ball, their attempts to frame the dialog so as to not have to be held accountable for breaking the law.

reasons. First, it is already illegal. Second, as soon as you say "waterboarding is illegal" as are other "extreme interrogation techniques," you have these miserable despicable excuses of humans claiming that a specific technique is not extreme. And that means that we then need to pass laws individually for each new technique: "the rack" - not extreme; the hot lead enema - not exterme; and so on and so forth.

It might be that the use of the Army Field Manual would knock this possibility out, and since I am not familiar with the Army Field Manual, if it does, great. And if it does, forget this whole, then paranoid post. But I would really want this law set up once and for all ( and as fast as possible). I spend time overseas. I have innumerable friends from other countries. I am so ashamed of what we have become under this administration and through our own complicity in these acts.

on the circumstances, how it is being done, who is doing it, and for what reason.

Remember this is the president who thinks a "signing statement" lets him do whatever he wants.

And force Bush to approve water boarding or veto water boarding.

Not a general "torture bill", but a tightly written federal law making water boarding a crime.

That is what Congress does: writes laws.

This is the most sane response to the insanity. Specificity.

to explain what happened.

That's like passing a law against breaking and entering by throwing a wine bottle through a window. Breaking and entering is already illegal. It doesn't matter how it is done. If they had more spine than a sea cucumber, they would be push for criminal investigation of what already has been done.

:hippie:

This seems to me as giving it an opening for renegotiation.

What they should outlaw is the Republican Party. Of course first they would have to outlaw some outlaws in the Democratic Party who would block them.

Should we rush out and murder too so that you can make a law deeming it illegal tomorrow. This is just the living end. Why do we pay these idiots? Peace, KIm

This is what we've been reduced to -- promoting the idea that, unless it was specifically proclaimed illegal after bush's illegal installation, you can't say anything is illegal. It's Nixon's "If the president does it, it's not illegal" taken to the extreme. In fact, it's a backdoor way of saying that torture wasn't really illegal before. It also provides convenient spin for republicans who can defend the bush cabal for their lawbreaking with the idea that, "well, if it was illegal, why did the senate feel compelled to enact a law prohibiting it?"

can not be trusted. Until that monster who like torture is out of the White house, they can not do normal things and expect them to work. Remember what that pig did to McCains bill? Piggie issues a signing statement saying he did not have to abide by it.
He is not a normal president and they have to come up with ways to deal with him. Impeachment is what is really needed.

Let's outlaw burning at the stake while we're at it, just in case that becomes fashionable among Repukes next year. Might be a good idea to outlaw death camps and gas chambers, too...

Better safe than sorry.