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NY TIMES MAGAZINE TO RUN 'MASSIVE, SCARY' COVER STORY ON AMERICA'S E-VOTING DISASTER THIS SUNDAY

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BradBlog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:17 PM
Original message
NY TIMES MAGAZINE TO RUN 'MASSIVE, SCARY' COVER STORY ON AMERICA'S E-VOTING DISASTER THIS SUNDAY
Source: BRAD BLOG, E&P

NY TIMES MAGAZINE TO RUN 'MASSIVE, SCARY' COVER STORY ON AMERICA'S E-VOTING DISASTER THIS SUNDAY
Cover Graphic Said To Show Exploding Voting Booth with 'WARNING' Label: 'Your vote may be lost, destroyed, miscounted, wrongly attributed or hacked'


The entire debate over e-voting may well be just about to change. Hopefully for the better. Big time.

Editor & Publisher's editor Greg Mitchell, has tipped off The BRAD BLOG late this afternoon, that the New York Times Magazine is set to run a "massive" cover-story this Sunday, on the entire e-voting disaster titled "The Bugs in the Machines."

Better late than never?

Mitchell describes the story as "quite chilling". Here's the first coupla grafs from his scoop...

Coming between the Iowa and New Hampshire tallies, this Sunday's cover of The New York Times Magazine ought to strike a chord. It shows a man inside an exploding voting booth with a WARNING label over it and the words: "Your vote may be lost, destroyed, miscounted, wrongly attributed or hacked."

The massive Clive Thompson article, titled "The Bugs in the Machines," is quite chilling. "After the 2000 election," it opens, "counties around the country rushed to buy new computerized voting machines. But it turns out that these machines may cause problems worse than hanging chads. Is America ready for another contested election?" One key passage: "The earliest critiques of digital voting booths came from the fringe --- disgruntled citizens and scared-senseless computer geeks --- but the fears have now risen to the highest levels of government."

One expert says that "about 10 percent" of the devices fail in each election.


FULL STORY, DEVELOPING: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5513


Read more: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5513
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Very Interesting!
And they hired Bill Kristol. I don't think the Right hand knows what the Left hand is doing, and vice versa.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank goodness. Maybe my family will believe me, finally.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Me, too...
...:7
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Amazingly, they believe that the NYT knows all.
And, "if that happened, it would be all over the news".
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. And it should be...
...all over the news. Eventually, I think it will be...I just hope I last to see it. :7
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
34. Yeah, park me here, too
I'm tired of the rolling eyes.
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
70. I agree totally
Mrs bearfan has been telling me I'm paranoid since the 2000 theft. The 2002 midterms, the 2004 theft where many Ohio counties had WAY more votes for bush than there were even registered voters in that county. They have been stealing the votes since JFK was going to take the money away from the Military Industrial Complex. Eisenhower was so right when he warned us about the Military Industrial Complex becoming more powerful than the govt itself. I can only hope something happens to have all the votes counted this time. If that ever does happen, we will have Dem landslides every time.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wow, and it only took them seven years to do some "journalism" on this topic
Jeepers, those New York Times folks sure are on TOP of things, aren't they?

:puke:
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Just in time to be "too late to do anything about it" until 2012.
Pathetic.
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
39. ----
:thumbsup:
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
78. Agreed.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
49. Yeah, they're quick.
Great at spotting a story and nosing out the truth. That's the ticket.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
56. If one were the paranoid type, it would suggest that the evil-doers in charge
are finally weak enough so that they might DARE to cross them!
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #56
68. If one were the paranoid type, one could also believe that every
transaction perfored on a Diebold ATM machine went straight to the (what I call the) Poindexter database that records all our movements. I don't know what 'their' database on us is called. We should go after that one of these days with or without the help of our 'know nothing Dem leaders'.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
83. Computer steals have been going on since the mid-1960's --- !!!
See Votescam --- The Stealing of America --
http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nice timing. I wonder how many will not vote now, reassured
that they were right and their vote doesn't count.

I think it is to help keep people from the polls. Why else this timing?
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
114. Timing? This is almost a year out from the election
Lemme guess, they should never print news stories lest someone be let down by them?
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. two ways of looking at it:
It is either much needed publicity about what is a terrible problem that needs honest attention from all sides of the aisle, ASAP

OR

Corpomedia is priming the pump to cast doubt in case the election doesn't go the way the deep pockets require...
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I Fear It Is The Later
After two major elections thefts by the Pukes NOW they are going to yell fraud when they know they can't game it anymore. FUCKERS.
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
71. Damn right nt
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
38. I hope it results in more states going back to paper ballots
There's plenty of time to do it before November. <fingers crossed>
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
90. I'm thinking the latter
The only reason the corporate media ever brings up something previously labelled as a conspiracy theory is either: A) to debunk it and laugh at the tinfoil hats or B) when they have something to gain from it. I would imagine this is a measure intended to ensure that enough elections can be questioned in 2008 to keep Congress narrowly divided.
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FergalsMom Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. Oh, I hope this is true
The more exposure this issue gets, the better off we'll all be.
Fingers crossed.
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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. welcome to DU!
I think this is great, too.

Of course the timing is several years too late, and our government has been stolen and the country has been trashed because of the delay, but given the choice between this coming out now and coming out never, I definitely pick now.
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Beartracks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Unless they just build better mousetraps... n/t
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
51. Hey! Welcome to DU!
Agreed. It has to go WAY mainstream. I hope this starts making a LOT of noise. Especially among Secretaries of State and other officials in position to decertify electronic voting and go back to a paper trail.

Glad to have you here! Now get to work.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks, and that is one reason why I vote absentee since 2000 /nt
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
48. uh oh. You're no safer. read on the bradblog....
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Evoted in Texas and raised a fuss complained all the
way to the state

its not reassuring to know that there is no physical evidence of my vote
except a number which doesn't tell me crap
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. Gee, I hope they get on that Lindbegh Baby case too.
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 07:18 PM by Botany
Now what did the N.Y. Times call us? Dead end conspiracy freaks?

Ohio 2004 ..... Public Hearings in Columbus, OH "I voted for Kerry but
the light went on for bush." 11/15/2004

And who made us use e- vote? HAVA thanx to Bob Ney, Rove, Abramoff, and
Diebold.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
40. This point will be moot unless justice is handed to those behind the crimes.
I've been called a conspiracy theorist for so many years now fighting on this issue, that I feel disenfranchised from my own party.

I'll never forget that Ney hearing of which you speak, Bill Anthony, the Chair of our county Dem Party saying those who said machines were mis-allocated were conspiracy theorists. I couldn't f%#!ing believe it.

My son's best friend lives in Arlington-just down the street from Wally O'Dell. About 2 years ago, just after Christmas we were taking him over to his friends' house when who should I see taking out the after Christmas trash but ole Wally himself. I pleaded for my husband to turn around so I could yell a few choice words at O'Dell, but he wouldn't. I always regret not being behind the wheel that day.

I hope true justice comes of this!
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #16
69. Don't forget Senator Hagel.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. Any day now . . .
I'm sure they'll tumble to the fact that Bush launched his little invasion of Iraq without keeping the one and only promise he made in the run-up: He promised to go back to the UN Security Council for their final approval of his plan. When it became apparent that France at least would veto (and maybe Russia, too), he just sort of "forgot" that promise, and away we went on a trillion dollar boondoggle that's cost millions of lives.

But no biggie, as long as the cocktail parties keep getting scheduled, right Times?
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. "scared-senseless computer geeks"
The earliest critiques of digital voting booths came from the fringe --- disgruntled citizens and scared-senseless computer geeks

Scared-senseless computer geeks. Uh, that would be the people who know what they're talking about. The only people who thought that the machines weren't hackable were the people who don't know anything about programming computers and think that computers just magically work. And the people who didn't know that Diebold's chief programmer was a many-time loser felon for criminal hacking of computers. I wonder if "Judy's paper" (the NYT) will mention Jeff Dean.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. When WILL the so-called "experts" start listening to them?
If the computer geeks are scared-senseless, it would behoove the rest of us to at least raise our heads and say "Huh? Wassup Pointdexter?"
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. ...
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 07:22 PM by ray of light


!
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'm as paranoid about his (timing) as anyone, .....HOWEVER....
it's time to take serious action at the state and local levels. This is the time to start lobbying our state & county governments to outlaw these damned machines, and the types of programming and scamming that are currently allowed.

Don't just wait for someone else to do it! Call the local office of your state representatives & senators, and ask for an appointment. Get your information together, and go make a case. Find the other people in your state tha have already organized, and join up with them.

WE CAN DO THIS! Sieze the day!!
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
21. Considering that many of our elections have razor thin margins
Ten percent failure takes on a huge meaning... Glad at least something is being put out about this debacle...
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. Hm. I bet that NYT reporter I talked to on the phone in November 2004...
has sat on the information I gave him all this time, just to have maximum positive impact on the next election.

Yep. That's what I bet.

:eyes:
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
23. And the idiots still seem to think that an election has to be "close" to have been stolen -
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 07:33 PM by IndyOp
The Times notes that "what scares election observers is this: What happens if the next presidnetial election is extremely close and decided by a handful of votes cast on machines that crashed?"

Okay, in case anyone from the NYT is reading this, focus now... ->

ON A COMPUTER,
IT IS JUST AS EASY TO TURN A 1 INTO 100
AS IT IS TO TURN A 1 INTO A 2.



Please contact Avi Rubin and ask him to help y'all get your heads out of your asses.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Shhh! The NY Times is on the story ....
.... "DELAND, Fla., Nov. 11 - Something very strange happened on election night to Deborah Tannenbaum, a Democratic Party official in Volusia County. At 10 p.m., she called the county elections department and learned that Al Gore was leading George W. Bush 83,000 votes to 62,000. But when she checked the county's Web site for an update half an hour later, she found a startling development: Gore's count had dropped by 16,000 votes, while an obscure Socialist candidate had picked up 10,000--all because of a single precinct with only 600 voters."
- Washington Post Sunday , November 12, 2000 ; Page A2

The #s and data on computer vote flips has been around for years .... Don Siegleman, Max Cleland, and on and on....
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
67. I keep saying this to relatives who claim that they were *in* Ohio
and didn't see anything untoward. Besides, it wasn't that close, etc.

Didn't need to be! And I don't for a minute think the fraud was limited to a few states. I think it was probably diffuse - it just mattered more in a few states.

Man, I'd love to see the MSM pay some attention to this.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #67
72. Pay attention to it? They were IN ON IT !!! The TV press.
I distinctly remember their GLEE when they spoke of the battle coming down to Florida in 2000, and the redux of GLEE when they said the same thing about Ohio in 2004. Yes, they were key states, but they had been clued in about what was going down.

In on it - they fired/disbanded THEIR JOINT exit polling company because they said it wasn't dependable though others swore by it for year after preceding years and used it accurately in other countries.

IN ON IT - they were in on it - absolutely. Why should they expose themselves?

Because they are going to do down with the criminals involved with stealing our most precious right.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
25. Seven Years Late! What's in it for the NYT's /NeoCons to put this out now?
That's what I would wonder about this "Johnny Come Lately" article. :shrug:
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Simple -
The Republicans are setting the stage to contest the outcome of the next election. Those voting machines are suspect, y'know.
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Ricki Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #31
55. that's right
they are not leaving office that easily.
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #55
73. This was the only thing they could do besides
imposing Martial Law and cancelling elections.
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Ricki Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #73
89. and I am very concerned about those things happening too!
Ugh! Sometimes this feels overwhelming.
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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. Yea Jennifer Brunner (Ohio SOS)!!! She raged against the machines!
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 07:42 PM by farmbo
...and ordered certain Diebold counties to go back to a paper ballot.

The BOEs and establishment newspapers have been skewering her over this and even the ACLU has been whining for her to go back to the machines (don't ask!?). :grr:

This NYT article should reform the entire debate.

Go Jennifer!!!

:bounce:
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. congrats brad
you rock.
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Rockerdem Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
28. I don't know what the ultimate answer is
The machines were supposed to fix one problem. But every format has something serious wrong with it. I personally don't trust the ballots that go through the Postal Service. There's too much room for hanky panky, let alone sloppiness.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #28
77. And, for me, the military votes are a joke. Just my suspicions.
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
29. 4-8 years late........
the nightmare continues......
Next the story will be, well we warned you.
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
30. Wake me when the story makes the CBS Evening News
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Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
32. Wake me when people start going....
to jail over this. Shit! Nothing going to come from it, it's to late better just let me sleep.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
33. Way to surf the backwash.
Nearly four years after the internets figured out that e voting was crap, the neocon times gets a clue.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
36. I will NEVER understand how Americans allowed this shit
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 09:23 PM by Karenina
in THE FIRST PLACE!!! Any 12 yr. old on a PC in 2000 could have told you, "Garbage in, garbage out." I recall staring at my monitor DUMBFOUNDED as the vote-sucking machines were legislated into place by 2006... :freak:
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Kip Humphrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
37. EVERYBODY: Do the Fringe Wave! (hands over head, wave them about like a fringe in the breeze)
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 09:29 PM by Kip Humphrey
What? No Fringe Wave smiliecon? Oh well... :hi:
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
41. Ahh, Just In Time So Repubs Can Accuse Democrats Of Rigging The Next Election
And call in to question the inevitable Democratic victory.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. we have a winner
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Red Zelda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #41
61. Exactly!
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #41
110. Exactly. (nt)
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
42. The Luos in Kenya are riting over their suspicion that
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 10:58 PM by tblue37
their election was rigged. Remember the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, when they wouldn't let their election be stolen?

Yet in America, we just can't get a rise out of anyone, no matter how deep the evidence piles up.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
43. IT'S ABOUT TIME! n/t
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
44. The insecurities were DESIGNED into the system.
There is no other logical explanation when many of those insecurities could have been eliminated/left out for no cost or extra effort whatsoever. It's not even possible to claim a "misguided profit motive" as a driving factor.

Eliminating the rest should have been second nature to companies which make ATMs and other equipment that "handles" hundreds of millions (billions?) of dollars .


It is not that hard to design a secure, transparent and verifiably unimpeachable electronic voting system. I have (just for fun) played with a number of ideas ranging from a pure software approach, through software assist, to electro mechanical tabulation of hand marked ballot papers. I won't claim that they can't be broken/corrupted, but successful subversion of any of them would require compromisation of the electoral system at ALL levels.

IMHO to get the best of both worlds.
  • Software presents the "ballot paper" to the voter in their language, either printed or spoken.
  • A handful of arcade style buttons (back, forward, yes, no, abstain, and "GET ME A SCRUTINEER NOW") are used to enter the voters preference.
  • The voter's preferences are temporarily stored using a system of pure hardware registers.
  • Once the voter is satisfied with his ballot, he commits it to a physical ballot.
    • Whatever the recording method, the actual solution should consist of dedicated hardware with no software component whatsoever.
    • The voter is then given the option of verifying his physical ballot. (With the aid of a crib sheet if necessary)
    • When the voter confirms his ballot, additional dedicated (software free) hardware tamper proofs it with a digital watermark calculated using the voter's ballot selections, booth identifier, time/date and the previous voter's "watermark".
    • The voter is issued with a receipt that can be used (if they wish) to retrieve their actual physical ballot (under proper oversight) from storage at a later date.
  • Tabulation of individual ballots is again accomplished with dedicated, software free, hardware, this can take place at any level, but ideally should be done as close to the poling location as practicable.
  • Transmission of tabulated data is done in parallel through multiple and indepenedent channels.
    • At least one of those channels (probably web pages) should make this data available to ANYONE who wants/requests it.
  • Final tabulation is again on dedicated, software free, hardware.

    The basic premises are:
  • To eliminate software driven hardware from the vote recording and tabulation stages entirely, except in a confirmatory role with discrepancies resulting in either manual checks of individual ballots for one off instances, or a comprehensive hand count if there is significant disagreement.
  • Physically simple hardware which can be confirmed as performing to specs by any moderately well equipped electronics hobbyist.
  • To make the raw tallies available publicly at the earliest practicable point in the process. Ideally on the individual precinct level AND directly from each precinct. And to make the consolidated figures available at each later stage in the tallying process.
  • To allow any person in the world (in theory at least) to act as an unofficial scrutineer.
  • To reveal attempts at tampering and to as closely as possible identify the point at which such tampering was attempted.


Yes I know that is essentially a nearly direct electronic/electromechanical analogue of a physical hand count (albeit with otherwise impractical security refinements) of hand marked ballots, but it does virtually eliminate the problems associated with human error, whilst making attempts at tampering stand out like dogs balls.
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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. There is no technical solution safe to use for voting. Period. Not even almost.
I have over 40 years of experience in computer software, networks, security, and similar areas, much of it at very high levels. There is no way to adequately secure any electronic voting system, even those with a "paper trail". Paper ballots, hand marked, precinct counted in full view, preferably hand-counted, and preserved with safeguards comparable to chain-of-custody requirements for criminal investigations.

(It is becoming nearly impossible to secure any computer systems, even embedded systems in military applications. You need to be able control and secure every component for each step from its manufacturing to its deployment and for as long as it continues to be used. Pre-infected hardware is becoming very common and increasingly difficult to detect.)

There is lots of information here at DU in various forums. I have posted a little and have a few entries in my journal. Check out the Brennan report for a systematic evaluation of the various types of systems, their weaknesses, how to exploit them, and the difficulties in detecting various types of election fraud.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #50
94. Did you actually read what I wrote?
First of all software and electronic are not at all the same thing. A ballot (or anything) in software is an abstraction, a ballot in an electronic circuit is a measurable physical entity. And as such with the right hardware it can be transfered into other physical forms, such as a punch or mark sense card which would constitute the permanent record.

At no point in the process I described does software control any portion of the vote tabulation process. It may monitor, but not control in any way.

At other points it provides a security assist, but again it does not take over. The original ballot information is not changed in any way, simply tagged with an electronic watermark that would make ballot substitution/box stuffing essentially impossible.

The machinery which accumulates a voter's choices and commits them to the physical record would by design be simple enough in all aspects that its function could be verified by any competent hobbyist. Application specific integrated circuits can indeed be easily compromised. Individual logic chips built to public domain designs and sourced from multiple suppliers cannot. And solenoids are even less corruptible.

The voter may not physically "create" his ballot, but he does control and monitor every aspect of it's creation. The purpose of having a machine create the actual ballot card is to minimise the chances of it being spoiled.

The machinery which tabulates the ballots is built to exactly the same dumb as dog shit, too bloody simple to subvert specifications. And could easily be placed in individual precincts.

The point is not to eliminate humans from the electoral scrutineering processes, it is to eliminate human error and to make tampering as close to impossible as possible.

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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #94
99. Yes, I read all your post. Your design is based on a simplistic view of the problem.
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 04:30 AM by unc70
I started out 40+ years ago on reproducing punches and other tab equipment, I understand things like ASIC, and I still don't think you understand the problem.

Your profile indicates you live in Australia. You might not be familiar with just how complicated various ballots can be in the US and what the legal requirements for them might be. In a single election, one voter might face up to 100 candidate races and ballot initiatives. There could be multi-candidate races (typical for town councils or county commissioners) where you can choose "up to" some number of candidates. If that multiple-winner contest is by party, what happens if there is a "straight party selection" for a collection of contests, but the voter marks a candidate of a different party in some contest. How you handle such situations varies greatly from state to state and there might be special local rules that must be followed.

So building a system in hard logic of some time that could handle these types of problems would be quite a challenge.

Almost nowhere else in the World has anything approaching the complexity of even a typical US ballot. Maybe I have missed something in your proposal, but how would it handle this level of complexity, repeated over many thousands of jurisdictions?

Check out a couple of the threads related to my journal entries on this and you should find examples of these kinds of problems. And human error was never really the justification for DREs and other automated systems; speed in reporting the results was the major justification and
reducing the need to find and hire counters and other staff was secondary.

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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #99
112. Decision trees are not that difficult to implement in hard logic.
It might take somewhat messy data files to deal with US election practices, but they would still be straightforward enough for finite state analysis.

Seems to me that I recall that once upon a time ballots in US elections were cast on purely mechanical systems. This says that a discrete logic electronic/electromechanical equivalent ain't an impossibility.

Hell. Presenting the ballot is a task that can be handed to a computer with acceptable safety. Just ditch a few hundred MB of worthless bloatware and hand the task to an old Apple ]<, or something of similar power.[br />
It IS doable.

Or use hand marked paper ballots and just count with machines dumb enough to be trusted.

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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #112
115. Moving the hardware/software boundary makes little difference
All the same issues still exist. How do you certify that the voting/tabulating/auditing while handling all the arcane legal requirements including multiple languages (English, Spanish, Lakota, Navajo, ...), accessibility (e.g. by blind), possibly a lot of different political parties, many dozens of candidates in the same contest. The various voters in a single precinct/polling place might be eligible to vote in widely different contests: different party primaries, in/out of city limits, school districts, etc.

We typically have 2-3 elections each year (counting "runoffs").

Using my state as an example (North Carolina), we have several thousand precincts in 100 counties, in 125 school districts, possibly in 0, 1, or 2 towns/cities, and maybe in some other special district.

So how do certify that each contest is implemented properly, that all your tools are not flawed and have not been hacked by some means, and that everything remains available for legal challenges, audits, and QC for several years. (A recent statewide contest in NC took over a year to resolve and become final.)

I wouldn't trust your logic compiler, your hardware suppliers, or almost any step in the process.

Check out some of discussions related to my journal entries for some examples of the problem and also look at the Brennan report.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #44
75. Yours appears to be a brillinat electronic solution. There is no reason
under the sun that you would have had to put the energy into it that you did to get your result - if Repuboicans were honest people.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
45. Finally, now that it is obvious that the Republicans' theft(s)
of either one or two presidential elections have not managed to gain them a permanent majority, now that the voters of Iowa have shown the Republicans just how much trouble they are in, now, the Times agrees to print the truth about the machines. Too little too late.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
46. Good news!
...anxious to see what the the article actually says.

Thanks Brad for the early peak.
:toast:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
52. Recommended.
Happy New Year, Brad. Let's hope 2008 ends vastly better than 2004.
Bob
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
53. If only Bev Harris hadn't been out for the money....
The irony, is amazing.
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Gonnuts Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
54. Flash! Now you see it - now you don't!
Well, whoop-pee-do ... finally just in time for them to do nothing about it.

I suppose I should be excited that somethings getting done, but, what the hell are they going to do this close to the election?
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
57. Good that this is getting a little more attention, but from what you quote, it sound like...
...it avoids the real problem, which is, the Republican who own the Corporations that make these nightmare machines being handed this RAW data to "count" "the People's" Votes, sometimes of entire States, and do as they like with that data!

Let me state this one more time for EVERYONE HERE!

GEORGIA (My State) WAS NOT the only state that just didn't "get it" regarding the A-hole Republicans in Congress and voted MORE of them into power here, OUR ELECTION IN 2006 (and our Elections in 2004 and 2002 too) WERE STOLEN BY DIEBOLD CORP. with their "AccuVote TS" and the Diebold Tabulator that goes along with it!

HELP US! PLEASE!

ALL Democrats in the State of GEORGIA NO LONGER HAVE A REAL VOTE! We do NOT Love Republicans here, We just lost our right to have our Votes counted fairly in 2002!:argh: :rant:
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
58. Is it too late to prevent the next election from "mysteriously" going Republican?? nt
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
59. 'bout fu@#ing time!!!
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
60. But, but, but, but -- that's a crazy conspiracy theory! It can't be true!
That's what they told us seven years ago, right?

But now that it's in the New York Times, it's officially true.

:sarcasm:
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
62. This will turn off the new voters that Clinton and Obama are counting on
I'm just so disgusted that nothing has been done about this problem.
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
63. I see...
Now that the Dems are dominating.

I am thankful this topic is getting press but I am untrusting of the motivation.


---
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
64. These lousy computer voting machines....
Are the reasons why, New York State has not implemented them. There have been several groups, who have educated the Board of Elections, and we are the last state to implement HAVA, and that, only after a lawsuit propagated by the USDOJ. As it stands, only yesterday, 1/4/08, has the NY Board of Elections, come up with any plan to implement optical scanning machines, and that not until 2009, which is fully one year after the demands of the DOJ wanted them.

Due to the fact that not many of the election custodians, election workers, or county BOE election officials are that technically inclined, I feel that this will backfire in a big way. I have worked as a custodian, or a custodian's helper for almost ten years now, so I know, that at least where I live, there will be problems when these are completely implemented.

Perhaps after the 2009 implementation of these albatrosses, the next president will withdraw the HAVA, and resort to paper ballots, similar to what has been in place in Canada for quite some time.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
65. Is there anyone besides Kucinich who ever spoke about the problem?
Edited on Sat Jan-05-08 09:48 AM by higher class
I think Edwards has?

I am ashamed for all the Democratic Representatives and Senators who have never done anything about the problem.

I thank the few who did.

If someone can list those who have helped, it will emphasize those who buried their head in the sand. I know Conyers and Waxman have done some things. And I already said Kucinich. Let's hear the rest.

Doing something DOES NOT INCLUDE 'CALLING' for honest elections - if the heads buried pulled them out long enough to 'CALL' for something - let them bury it again. Rhetoric means nothing. Nothing.

It is atrocious that we have had no leadership on this issue.

I am ashamed about all the talk and argue energey and the millions of dollars of ads and payments for buses and jets when the reality is that the vote doesn't count.

If a person's body was as sick and broken down as our system, some attention would be given to finding the source of the problem.

I thank all the technicians and sleuths who have worked on this.

I AM ASHAMED OF OUE LEADERS.

If we knew what was going on in 2000 and let it happen again in 2002 - then 3004 and 2006 - it means that there are groups of Republicans who have laughed at the stupidity and blindness of our leaders - for seven years.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
66. You know, this has all been very frustrating...
I've even got a little magic doohickey that's based on the Diebold machines. Performed it for two Congressional candidates back in 2006 and unnerved them both. We've known about this all along. Why won't America wake up, even now?
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
74. The freaking NY Times has helped cover up the thefts
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

" ..... and The New York Times declared that ''there is no evidence of vote theft or errors on a large scale.''

Ohio 2004 was a crime so was Don Siegleman so was Max Cleland and so was
Deb Pryce's come from behind last second win in 2006 in Ohio over Mary Jo Kilroy.

The machines are not "bad or faulty" they do what they were programed to do and that
was and is to manipulate the outcome of elections.
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
76. WHEW! Just in time for nothing to be done about it! n/t
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #76
92. Exactly, but then again, they never seem to have time (or money) to fix it...
...yet, they did seem to have time buy, roll out and NOT test the Diebold "AccuVote TS" machines, here in Georgia, between the 2000 and 2002 elections with out any trouble. :grr:

Hummmm, why is that? :banghead: :mad: :argh:
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #92
103. ...I know why!
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
79. Too late to help, as usual. Rolling Stone and RFK Jr. were all over this (links within) in detail
when something could still have been done.

NYT - Too little too late - AS USUAL when it comes to this admiistration.

Was the 2004 Election Stolen?
Republicans prevented more than 350,000 voters in Ohio from casting ballots or having their votes counted -- enough to have put John Kerry in the White House.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.Posted Jun 01, 2006 5:02 PM

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen


Will The Next Election Be Hacked?
Fresh disasters at the polls -- and new evidence from an industry insider -- prove that electronic voting machines can't be trusted
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.Posted Sep 21, 2006 1:23 PM

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11717105/robert_f_kennedy_jr__wil

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stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
80. No need for tinfoil, the timing of this "news" is so damned transparent.
I think we all understand the motives very well. Corporate whores.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
81. PLEASE also see VOTESCAM - The Stealing of America ---
These election steals didn't begin in 2000 nor 2004 ---
They're been going on since the mid-1960's!!!

Jim & Ken Collier discovered the computer steals in the late-1960's . .
they investigaged it for 26 years ---

Their book was suppressed --

You can scan it or read it at this website ---

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

It's an amazing story which America has to wake up to ---

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carincross Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
82. article now on NYT web
The article is available at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/magazine/06Vote-t.html?ref=magazine&pagewanted=print

Can You Count on These Machines? By CLIVE THOMPSON
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #82
84. Here's the DU discussion
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Gonnuts Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
85. Seed to suspend elections?
When asked in 1976 whether the CIA had ever told journalists, working as its paid agents, what to write, former CIA director William Colby replied, “Oh, sure, all the time.”

I suppose I should be excited that something is being exsposed, but just what is their purpose? I do not trust anything coming from the M$M. Whatever their agenda is won’t be good for us.

Could this be the seed to suspend the elections? If we were to experience another false flag attack, coupled with the exposure of the E-voting fraud would that be enough for them to state that until order can be restored and proper election system put in place, to up-hold the integrity (puke here) of the democratic system … blah, blah, blah …

Whatever it is think the worst and multipy it a thousand times and you might come close.
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Hart2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
86. This is nothing new. In '88 Bush Sr. lost every N.H. precinct to Dole, except those using e-voting.
...Or so I read.

Sununu, who ran Bush's N.H. campaign, became very important thereafter, Chief of Staff, etc.

We have never checked, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Hart did worse in the e-voting districts in '88 then elsewhere.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #86
97. interesting..... n/t
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Hart2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #97
104. Some links about Bush Sr. in N.H. in '88 vs. Dole.
If you conclude that Bush Sr., fixed the Republican New Hampshire primary, then you need to consider: why not fix the Democratic primary as well?

As of January 13, 1988, Gary Hart was in 2nd place in New Hampshire at 19%:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DEEDF1438F930A25752C0A96E948260
In the official returns he later only got 4% of the vote and finished last among the serious candidates, despite having led in national polls less than a month prior to New Hampshire.
Coincidence?

Let’s jump 20 years to the mysterious victory of George Herbert Walker Bush in 1988. Bush had just been slaughtered by Bob Dole in the Iowa Primary. Every single indicator and poll predicted that Bush would lose in New Hampshire by about eight points. It was “game over” for Bush, he was being mocked in the press as a “wimp.” Remember, New Hampshire undeclared independent voters can swing into the polls on primary day, become members of the party at the polls, and vote in that day’s primary So the results in New Hampshire tend to be a bit more combustible and brutally reflective of swing voters general opinion. Yet, Bush somehow won that primary and saved his entire campaign, with a shocking nine point victory over Dole. Upon taking the White House, he appointed political neophyte John Sununu as his Chief of Staff. Why?
Well, authors like the Colliers and journalist Jonathan Vankin point to the fact that Sununu was a computer expert, and a former governor there in New Hampshire. The vote was counted on machines called “Shouptronics” which could be accessed over a simple phone connection and their data modified.


http://www.sanderhicks.com/boe.html


George Bush Snr's election

It would seem that these findings would account for the subsequent unexpected victory of George Bush snr. (ex-CIA Director) over his fellow-Republican candidate, Sen. Robert Dole, in the New Hampshire primary in 1988 - to say nothing of his subsequent victory over the Democrat, Dukakis, for the presidency. To refer back to the New Hampshire primary for a closer look at how the voting system was manipulated: The Governor of New Hampshire at the time was John Sununu, a computer engineer:

“Nothing was said in the press about the secretly programmed computer chips inside the ‘Shouptronic’ Direct Recording Electronic (DRE) voting machines in Manchester, the state's largest city.”..
1. “The ‘Shouptronic’ was purchased directly from a company whose owner, Ransom Shoup, had been twice convicted of vote fraud in Philadelphia.”2. “It bristled with telephone lines that made it possible for instructions from the outside to be telephoned into the machine without anyone's clear knowledge.”
3. “It completely lacked an ‘audit trail,’ an independent record that could be checked in case the machine ‘broke down’ or its results were challenged.”
4. “Roy G. Saltman, of the federal Institute for Computer Sciences and Technology, called the Shouptronic ‘much more risky’ than any other computerized tabulation system because ‘You are fundamentally required to accept the logical operation of the machine, there is no way to do an
independent check.’”
“A source close to Gov. Sununu insists that Sununu knew from his perspective as a politician, and his expertise as a computer engineer, that the Shouptronic was prime for tampering. The concept is clear, simple and it works. Computerized voting gives the power of selection, without fear of discovery, to whomever controls the computer.”
On becoming president, Bush appointed Sununu Chief of Staff in his administration.

It is self-evident that, some 12 years later, Bush seniors’ sons, George W., and Jeb, ‘got the message’ (see Palast above).




http://www.spectrezine.org/reviews/mendes.htm

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam01.htm
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. about the ny times article: he never mentioned that every time
or most of the time the vote count was fucked it was always in the republika's favor--when he was saying he consulted with all these computer experts who seemed to think that it was more machine error that hacking.

from everything i've read, it seems really rich that the machines error against dems all the time.

also, it never mentions how right on the exit polls were/have been/etc (which is what is used in other countries--can't think of the names now but they redid the election because the exit polls were so skewed. but us? oh no. bad bad exit polls--bullshit!) that should have been brought up.

and as far as i know, re: the optiscans--they only hand count if the optiscan shows a certain percentage off from the initial count.

(thanks for the links)

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Hart2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #105
111. Behind Every Bush – There’s A Rigged Election


Behind Every Bush – There’s A Rigged Election

By Bob Fitrakis

As partisan forces in Ohio clash over the reliability of e-voting machines and whether the state can afford to replace them, we should keep in mind that the use of computer software for central tabulation and the computerized voting machines have been long distrusted.

That distrust is directly related to the Bush family dynasty and its convenient ties to the CIA.

Take the following quote from the Manchester Union Leader from the 1980 Iowa caucus: “The Bush operation has all the smell of a CIA covert operation . . . strange aspects of the Iowa operation a long, slow count and then the computers broke down at a very convenient point, with Bush having a six percent bulge over Reagan.”

In 1984, President Reagan signed National Security Directive Decision NSDD245. A year later, the New York Times explained the details of Reagan’s secret directive: “A branch of the National Security Agency is investigating whether a computer program that counted more than one-third of all the votes cast in the United States in 1984 is vulnerable to fraudulent manipulation.”

http://fraudbusterbob.com/blog/2007/12/23/behind-every-bush-theres-a-rigged-election/
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rambler_american Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
87. ...and about freaking time, too.
How come we knew about this voting machine corruption years ago and the Times is JUST NOW figuring it out. Jeez! Better late than never, but better never late. I'll find some forgiveness if the article effects some change BEFORE the next election.
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bagrman Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
88. Vote by Mail, Vote by Mail , Vote by Mail, fix now be for next election.
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BradBlog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #88
100. Vote by Mail is a TERRIBLE IDEA!

Dems *really* need to figure this out, and stop pushing for Vote-by-Mail. Unless they *really* want their votes to disappear into a black hole and *still* be counted (if anybody bothers to count them at all) on the same damned computer tabulators.

Absentee ballots, are the easiest way to defraud the system.

Sigh...Work here never done. More on why you DON'T want to go to Vote-by-Mail...soon...

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cshldoc Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
91. I don't know about you but I was about to wet my 'wil panties
"The earliest critiques of digital voting booths came from the fringe — disgruntled citizens and scared-senseless computer geeks — but the fears have now risen to the highest levels of government"

This is a horseshit tarring of the computer-savvy elite as a bunch of limp-wristed pantwaists who were 'scared' of electronic voting. We were not 'scared senseless'. We knew better. In fact, some of us volunteered to a) build a secure voting infrastructure, b) monitor the performance of current machines and c) explain to the masses who don't know an electron from an election why the proposed batch of e-voting machines were bad things. We were generally rejected or silenced or ignored. And now, we're being shown to have been correct in our assessments of the overall fidelity of the Diebold group and the reliability of closed-source electronic voting.
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Highway61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
93. Yeah right
Congress looked at this earlier and won't do anything till 2012???? Big question is why?
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
95. Doesn't that get delivered on Sat. in some of the burbs?
I could swear it was around my parents when they got it.

So anyone see it yet?
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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
96. How about a massive scary cover story about
why it was wrong to support the war and to repugnantly ingratiate with this administration?
I will never buy a NYT ever again.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
98. No Shit Sherlock. You can kiss the "fringe" of my ass...
I guess electronic vote fraud can be considered a serious problem NOW because some self-aggrandising MSM asshole deems it as such. You're about SEVEN YEARS too late to the party, dick.

J
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
101. morning kick
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
102. Here's Another Kick (nt)
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
106. The article was nearly a waste of paper (IMHO).
It covered old news that has been hashed, rehashed and hashed again on the Internets and never even mentioned the very real possibility Kerry won the last election. Disappointing, but at least it got some exposure.
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
107. Thanks!! Just in time to do nothing, again, before the upcoming elections.
Of course the dem congress decided for us that they will look
into this before the 2013 elections.

Will you poke me in my good eye with your sharp stick again.
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riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
108. There's a lot of minimizing and inaccuracies in the Times report
...so I think it's trying to create a false meme that still enables election theft.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
109. ya know, I was asked by a telephone pollster over the weekend about this...
I thought it was curious in a very general-purpose consumerist-type survey, to ask about electronic vs. paper balloting, but I was.

Hmm.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
113. so--they held this blockbuster until a Democrat might get elected?
I can hear the screams of "VOTE Fraud" rising from the GOP Lawyers Caucus as I write.

NYT put Bush in office. Now they're maneuvering to remove Hillary, if necessary.
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