U.S. soldier uses Quran for target practice; military apologizes

Source: CNN

A soldier used the Quran -- Islam's holy book -- for target practice, forcing the chief U.S. commander in Baghdad to issue a formal apology on Saturday.

Maj. Gen. Jeffery Hammond, commander of U.S. forces in Baghdad, apologized to leaders in Radhwaniya, in the western outskirts of Baghdad, for the staff sergeant who was a sniper section leader assigned to the headquarters of the 64th Armored Regiment. He also read a letter of apology by the shooter.

It was the first time the incident -- which tested the relationship between U.S.-backed Sunni militiamen and the military -- was made public since it was discovered May 11.

"I come before you here seeking your forgiveness," Hammond said to tribal leaders and others at the apology ceremony. "In the most humble manner I look in your eyes today and I say please forgive me and my soldiers."

-----

Copies of the pictures of the Quran obtained by CNN show multiple bullet holes and an expletive scrawled on one of its pages.



Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/05/17/iraq.quran/index.html

---

Way to go dumb*ass. And you were a sergeant! Hope they make you a buck private for the rest of your military career!

Except it would be an outrage here!

:scared:

Why would our Muslim Iraqi allies - the people we are training to stand up so we can stand down - be offended by the abuse of a Torah or a Christian bible? Or a Bagavad Gita? Or a copy of Tao Te Ching?

Now, let that same sergeant use a Torah for target practice in an extremely orthodox section of Israel (or Brooklyn, for that matter), or a bible in rural Alabama, and yeah. His commander would be issuing an apology there as well.

Just because our soldiers are carrying guns doesn't give them the right to be assholes.

people put in the trash those books every year

I found it ironic that in a discussion about a group intending to distribute new testaments with the Sunday Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that a Jewish person said she was upset about this, but she could not just throw the book out in the trash b/c it is a book that is considered Holy to another religion.

I'll like to see the people who complains about others disrespecting their holy books (bible, quoran, torah) condemning the attacks on others because of their religion.

http://www.cathnews.com/news/704/94.php

After all alot of people respect those books so in my opinion every member of the army should show a little common decency and not show such blatant disrespect.
Anyway I wonder what discipline actions will be taken to the soldier, in my opinion I think a demotion and a fine of 3 to 6 months pay would be enough, what about you?

Nope. He learned too well his rulers' lesson that Islam is a dirty, violent, un-Christian religion populated only by terrorists. So the only fit punishment is permanent reduction to the lowest enlisted rank and assignment as chaplain's helper, with no opportunity for re-promotion or reassignment.

Our sergeants must learn to have *respect* for symbols especially while abusing and killing actual humans.

(Yes I'm being ironic but I also really mean it. What he did is the act of a rather stupid thus dangerous person.)

a 3 to 6 month fine and a demotion is enough punishment in my opinion, people do make stupid decisions and this is one of them so hopefully he will learn.
If he has a poor record though then they should consider a discharge from the military, after all the military does not need the problem people like that can cause.

He should be busted down and have to work at a field hospital changing the bandages of fellow soldiers.

He needs to realize that stupid acts like his have consequences for all military personnel in Iraq.

NT

then almost certainly yes. We are occupying a Muslim country, a religion which holds the Quran in an esteem far outweighing how Christians see the Bible. We are trying to convince them that we are not crusaders and this is not a war on Islam. And yet here we have Sergeant Mentally Challenged doing crap like this. Not that an apology would matter, but I would hope just from a pure psyops standpoint at least an apology would be attempted if this was the Vedas in India or the Torah in Israel. Not that anyone would think we meant it. Most people subscribe the the view that 'actions speak louder than words.'

You seem to miss the rather obvious context -- you know, the invasion, torture, mass murder, war crimes, genocide -- surrounding the event.

:-)

he'd been left to the Iraqi justice system (and yeah, I pretty much know what the outcome would be). We go over there, create a living Hell on earth, and then some genius abuses the one thing that might mean more to them than anything else. I wonder how many Americans will die as a result of his actions. And he'll get reassigned to a desk job for it. Yeah, seems real appropriate to me. Talk about a fucked up mess! :grr:

Military proselytizing, a Baldwin brother, and apocalypse by design…
http://scholarsandrogues.wordpress.com/2007/08/08/military-proselytizing-a-baldwin-brother-and-apocalypse-by-design/

DogPoundPup

Yes so I have been reading her on DU and other progressive sites around.... And as a Christian I feel really unforgeable with the fact, that fundamentals are playing with the top armed forces... I am NOT in favor of what is happening in Pentagon this days.. And I hope that the next President would sidetrack the most of this type of officers, on places where the only damage they could do, is to their own two feets... I know the US armed forces have a lot of defunct post in the north of Alaska.. Maybe time to get this "holly warriors" to calm down.. Some winters in a shack to write down meteorological graphs should do the job I guess...

I don't know how thing works in the US armed forces, but I do believe it to be against the law to proselytizing in the armed forces in Norway where I am living.. What we do when out of the uniform, and more to the point not in the armed forces, that is up to us.. But I guess our allegiance are not to other than our King, our Fatherland and our Parlament... And what is LAW in the land

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

that is happening in the military but I'm not going to put any bets on it. At this point, it is too embedded in their (the Pentagons) 'control' over the enlisted.

DogPoundPup

I don't know either, but I do hope that the next president would stop that... And that the armed forces would reverse what is going wrong in the first place...

But I am not sure longer.. To me, US are like a rouge ship that are without steering, and where all the passenger are in some state that are doing more harm than good to the rouge ship... Once I believed US to be little as Europe, but now I can't get up or down of what US are doing anymore... US confuse me to the point I'm on the Verge of giving up and rather doing something else than to worry about what is happening in the US... It can be so depressing to se how a democratic, free and educated country as your own, go down the tube to a 3 world country in just 8 year...

Or is it just me, who believed that for the most part the american was educated, and that you had for the most part decent, somewhat honest leaders?... I have to say, that your current administration are just... Well I have not the language in english to say what I really feel about that man.. And i I ever get it into writing I would definitely get into problem with the US law enforcement if I ever was to visit your country.... Better to say something that I would regret in later times maybe?

Sometimes I even feel sorry for the little stupid person, because hi is so long away from where he belong... But then he is just that clown he deserve to be remembered as, and for the most part his speak is just irritating to listing to. I have never been a good speaker myself, but he can't even speak his native language properly.. I really miss Mr Clinton, he COULD make speatces that inspire the audience, even people who was listing to him half the globe away... Mr Bush State of the Union was not even comparable to mr Clinton... It looks like mr Bush are on some he wy medication when he is "get loose" on the public.. Or he is on the drinks again...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language.

imagine how we Americans are feeling and add to that...trapped within this fascist nation.

DogPoundPup

I can't, but I believe all the prozac in this world would never be enough to get by....

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

It was never the case that the majority of Americans were well educated. It was the case, however, that many of the uneducated did defer to elites politically, or at least to those within their circle who knew more than they did. Today, this is no longer the case, and a cynical and utterly nihilistic cabal has actually empowered the unenlightened. Today, they presume that they are actually authorized to exercise political power by virtue of their lord and savior, Jesus Christ. The people of Eastern Europe, as I recall, were not uneducated back in the old days--they were just surrounded by a total cocoon of state control, intimidation, and propaganda. Our situation today is analogous to that. There are special newspapers, magazines, shops and television channels for such people. What one would imagine would be a question of private conscience has become a parallel state within the state. It is entirely possible to live within an encompassing cocoon of fundamentalist Christianity, the religion of the unenlightened.

That being said, shooting the Koran is not a matter of US policy: this is one moronic soldier. This sort of thing has always happened, it's just that today we can hear about it.

Despite all obstacles, be assured that many of us are trying to right the ship and throw the crazy captain overboard.

and consists of the best and the brightest, blah blah blah!!!!

scarface2004

Maybe it was like that, once? I know US still have many bright honest hardworking soldiers in the armed forces...


Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

no better - no worse.

if it ever was, which I doubt. A drafted military might be closer to such a cross-section, but even then, those with the $$$ don't have to serve as demonstrated by the Limbaughs and Cheneys and other boardroom commandos of the right. A volunteer military is self-selecting, and therefore not at all an even representation of the society it comes from. There are few moderates and virtually no liberals in the modern US forces. Even those so inclined when they join will be forced to either be silent or convert in order to conform to the norms of their new group.

There are a lot of liberals and moderates in the military.

Many of our Dems in Congress are military vets, as well as many other prominent liberals.

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

that you must resort to a response such as that.

As for the assertion that I don't know what I'm talking about: in December I will reach 19 years of active-duty service in the US military. Full time, 365 days per year. One year in Korea, a year wearing armor and dodging carbombs in Afghanistan, six months in Bosnia when it was still a war zone, West Africa, Central and South America, the list goes on. Precisely what are your current (or even recent) military credentials then, that give you such an intimate view as to be able to respond like that?

You say "Many of our Dems in Congress are military vets, as well as many other prominent liberals." Precisely - vets are NOT currently in the military, and so they are at best perhaps an indicator of how the military was back when they were ACTUALLY IN IT. But 20, 30, 40 years later their service is not an indicator of how things are NOW.

My conclusion that there are not many comes from almost 19 years of being virtually the only one around.

Airborne Ranger, CIB type of service. Maybe you are in the Air Force because I know it is ate up with rear-echelon, conservative rambo wannabes. Most of the troops I served with in the infantry didn't give a shit about politics. Those who did, I would say 65% pukes, 35% mods and liberals. I have a good friend who is a LTC(P) right now who is even a liberal from MASSACHUSETTS!

Your statement that there are virtually no liberals or moderates in the service is absurd on its face. The last Army Times survey I saw had it about 40% puke, 25% Dem and 35% Independent. That is more than "virtually none." That was an old poll so it is probably even more Dems and I's now. How do you explain Obama getting more military contributions than McCain?

Thanks for your service but you're not the only one who has had their ass in the grass.

Therefore I defer to you, obviously. Congrats on your 'several years of service.' I hope you had a good time. And thanks for telling me that my own personal experiences are wrong or never happened. Truely you must be a near demi-god, being able to evaluate my own experiences for me and all. Thanks! Do I owe you a fee or was this gratis?

"Rambo"? - Dude, seriously, I'm gonna print that off a show it to the guys at work. They will die laughing, since they actually know me! That alone was worth your consultation fee.

Based on your response, I think I hit the nail on the head.

In your "personal experience", you have seen a small fraction, much less than 1% of the entire military (USAF, correct?). You can't try to make absurd claims about the entire military based on such a small sample, without looking foolish. I notice you failed to respond to the points I made about military polls and military political contributions. It is soooo much easier to feign righteous indignation, isn't it?

HOPE IT HELPS.

I wasn't doing the righteous indignation thing very well, I admit. Doesn't come across so good in print, I suppose.

Yes, USAF, but if you haven't been around for a few years, here's the news: it matters little what service you're in anymore. I spent a year in Afghanistan assigned to an Army unit filling an Army billet doing Army stuff totally outside my AFSC/MOS, because the Army is so stretched they're basically demanding the other services backfill them. ILO tasking, if that means anything to you. I assure you it was not an office environment, nor was my time in Bosnia or West Africa in the 90s. About 1/3 of the routine convoys on the roads in Iraq are USAF transportation squadrons, about half the EOD teams and dog teams are as well. Some of us actually do other than office work, believe it or not. Not that I like it, but not like I get a choice either. I'd much rather have my 5-star hotel and rental car than do all this Army shit, to be honest, but that's the job I'm in, so there you go.

I did make an over-generalization, more hyperbole I suppose, but in all honesty I'd love to meet this large percentage AT says are liberal or moderate. I've had interactions with every single person in my current unit (Joint) and have yet to run across anyone I'd rate as more liberal than 'moderate-right.' My last unit, the same. I have to think back to the 1990s before I recall more than a handful of liberals/Dems in any unit I've been in. Perhaps my experiences are an oddity, but I have never assumed so. I've been in lots of units, lots of commands, lots of countries, and the thumb-nail demographic I've seen stays about the same. When I've mentioned I'm a Dem I've been asked "why the hell are you in the military then" and "do you have to put that on your paperwork when they do your 5-yr security investigations" like it's being a member of the Communist Party or something. So perhaps I'm jaded in that respect.

20 years as a Naval officer - as a both a liberal and an atheist I never had any problems.

but that wasn't the point. The point is there are precious few around. Based on the last couple of presidential elections, if the military were a 'cross-section' of society, we'd be about 50 percent Democrat/liberal/whatever-you-want-to-call-it-that's-not-a-modern-R-conservative. It is nowhere even CLOSE to that, and I'm in the most 'liberal' of all the services. Therefore I have never seen how the armed forces, being voluntary, are a cross-section of society. Self-selection rarely creates an even sampling from a population.

Three years ago I was at change of shift in a US military hospital on a weekend, where I was the only civilian contractor.

I also noticed that of the approximately two dozen people there, I was the ONLY (non-Hispanic) white. True, that day was an anomaly, but it was rare that even half of the soldiers were white.

Minorities, specifically blacks and Hispanics, make up considerably more than the expected proportion of USA soldiers.

The Navy might be different ...

I bet they ain't anymore...

This guy must have a hamburger steak instead of a brain.

How many "new" terrariss did he just create out of his abysmal stupidity?

And for what?

And yeah, way to go dumbass!

These soldiers (sorry to sound old) are kids. So much is being asked of them, as it always is.

Combat ready, yes. But. Take a lack of social graces, tons of testosterone, immeasurable and unmanaged stress, and an ill-defined enemy... and you get this kind of crap.

There has been atrocious behavior just like this, in every conflict since Aequi v. Volsci. :(

Apparently we here at DU are still reacting instead of analyzing. This type of staged incident has happened before, designed for domestic political consumption. Don't think they're using foriegn wars for domestic political control, whatever the cost?

not planned but the RW blogosphere will use it to stir up hatred by making it a freedom of speech issue (just like the Mohamed cartoons etc), as though this guy was some kind of conceptual artist.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I've got a big'un brewin' and it's gonna need something as vastly shitworthy as your post to get every little bit.

Or otherwise have the slightest idea what you're talking about? If not, then as a friend of mine likes to say "never pass up the opportunity to keep your mouth shut."

Because it means that in this incident no Iraqi civilians were used for 'target practice' by our colonial military in Iraq!
A few civilians can now live on (until the next air strike) ...

Do I have to set a sarcasm-tag?

... would kick that idiot's ass in a heartbeat. Hope Sgt. Dumbass spends the rest of his military career peeling potatoes.

...but letting a line of Iraqi citizens kick this putz in the balls might (emphasis on the might) cut down on the number of new terrorists this dickhead created.

Honestly. Does nobody think about cause and effect anymore? Correct me if I'm wrong, but in WWII, didn't our soldiers in non-European areas get cultural briefings to avoid shit like this?

Christ, this sounds like something you'd have heard about US soldiers doing in the Philippines at the turn of the LAST century. I swear, I think we're regressing.

...the cultural briefings. But the 'law of diminishing returns' sets in as the student's IQ passes south of 100. He probably remembers "blah blah blah Islam blah blah blah Quran blah blah blah Muslims."

In Afghanistan I stopped and chewed up an evangelical OFFICER in my barracks who was waxing historical on the 'problems in the Middle East.' In the course of 30 seconds he mentioned that "these Muslims have always been like this, just look at what Jesus went through in the Bible," and referred to "these Arabs here in Afghanistan." I told him that since Islam did not exist prior to 632AD, I doubt Jesus had much problem with non-existant Muslims, and that the Afghans are mostly of either Persian or Mongolian descent, a damned sight from being Arabs. If officers are this clueless and ignorant what do you expect of NCOs or worse yet, the private soliders?

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When the chips are down and a lull in fighting or even submission by the freedom fighters is all going on it's time for CNN to release 'shots' of that book. ;)

look at em;

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/05/17/iraq.quran/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

taking their Q from the MSM camera crew ! LOL

Everyone knows the official mind set of what to think and do is put out at the Friday prayer meetings.

Why can't anybody else see that the problem is not our soldiers involved in Bush's and Cheney's war of aggression against the Iraqis, but the media who are reporting incidents like this.

Damn the liberal media!

Winter Soldier- Testifying about war atrocities

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m_f3WPvzU4&feature=related

:sarcasm:

There was no heart, no real "motivation" in their on screen performance. Better leave that one on the cutting room floor before it circulates in it's partially, poorly edited form ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYfR71Si6g4&feature=related

Jason Hurd (about 2 mins into the vid) seemed very convincing to me.

:-(

"Copies of the pictures of the Quran obtained by CNN show multiple bullet holes and an expletive scrawled on one of its pages."

This is downright stupid. What was he and anyone else involved thinking?

-----

The discovery was incendiary. It was an affront to Islam and a serious challenge to the religious credentials of the U.S-allied militias, or Awakening Councils, who turned on al-Qaeda and are now on the U.S. government payroll. Watch villagers protest the incident »

Largely moderate Sunnis, the American-backed militias face constant accusations from Islamic groups that they have turned against Islam to support the cause of the infidels, or nonbelievers. If this indignity had gone unanswered, the Islamists' case would have been won.

Abdullah, the militiaman who found the defaced Quran, complained to his superiors. Soon, there was outrage among the tribes and population of Radhwaniya, a semi-rural area long home to loyalists of the former regime of Saddam Hussein.

Word of what the Americans had done rippled throughout the district and the fury spread. Honor was at stake, and the urge for a violent response against the insult was strong. However, tribal leaders made an approach to American commanders in the region. "Honestly, we have to defend our religion," said Sheikh Saad al-Falahi, "and relations with the U.S. would deteriorate if they did not apologize."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/05/17/btsc.ware/index.html

By KIM GAMEL – 56 minutes ago

BAGHDAD (AP) — An American sniper was removed from Iraq after he used a copy of the Quran for target practice, the military said Sunday, a day after a U.S. commander held a formal ceremony apologizing to Sunni tribal leaders ... The commander also read a letter of apology by the shooter, who has not been identified, while another military official kissed a Quran and presented it to the tribal leaders, according to CNN. Tribal leaders, dignitaries and local security officials attended the ceremony, while protesters carried banners and chanted slogans, including "Yes, yes to the Quran" and "America out, out" ... http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gkx-3oYeFwuWKCusr2jrojs98w8wD90O8AR80


US Soldier Used Koran For Target Practice
Updated:16:48, Sunday May 18, 2008
An American soldier has been .. ordered home from Iraq after using .. the Koran for target practice ... http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1316396,00.html

If he had been using a copy of The Satanic Verses for target practice, then he would have been in possession of a copy of The Satanic Verses. See the problem?

The boy might have missed.

Still, if this behavior truly bothers The Prophet or his Dog, retribution will be swift. Just look at what is happening to a journalism student in the New Democracy of Afghanistan who not only "...disrupted classes at the university by asking questions about women's rights under Islam ...", but WROTE about that; as well as about what he saw as the True Face of Islam, thus the Afghan trial court has found that:

"...'Kambakhsh has insulted Islam by writing these paragraphs, and he has insulted the Prophet Muhammad,' Ayar said. 'I ask the appeals court today to uphold the decision of the primary court of Balkh and sentence him to death'...."

'Course, he now claims he did NOT do EITHER of these VILE things ... but yah can't be too careful, and it is likely his death-sentence will stand.

Anyhow, what our boy done was wrong. I mean he is a guest in their country - not like he is an invader or anything - and it is always wrong to insult your hosts: Even if 'desecration' is a victimless crime.

Some people might suggest that printing additional copies of the Quran might solve the problem, but they are heartless. People who have a heart want an update on the condition of that particular copy of the Quran.

Who gives a shit?? :eyes: The man with a gun shot a book. There's no need to apologize.