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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:21 PM
Original message
Clinton apologizes for RFK assassination comment
Source: CNN

Hillary Clinton said Friday she regretted comments that evoked the June 1968 assassination of Robert Kennedy as part of her explanation for why she was staying in the presidential race late into the primary season.

"Earlier today, I was discussing the Democratic primary history and in the course of that discussion mentioned the campaigns that both my husband and Senator Kennedy waged in California in June in 1992 and 1968, and I was referencing those to make the point that we have had nominating primary contests that go into June. That's an historic fact,” she told reporters.

“The Kennedys have been much on my mind in the last days because of Senator Kennedy, and I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation and particularly for the Kennedy family was in any way offensive. I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever,” she added.

Earlier Friday afternoon, she told the editorial board of the Sioux Falls Argus-Leader that "My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it," complaining that “people have been trying to push me out of this ever since Iowa," saying that that position “historically… makes no sense.”

The Obama campaign reacted quickly. "Sen. Clinton's statement before the Argus Leader editorial board was unfortunate and has no place in this campaign," they said in a statement.



Read more: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
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rsmith6621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. SO.....



.....WHAT.....this is another calculated statement made by a desperate candidate.
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RazBerryBeret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. Calculated
is the key word, IMO
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Premeditated? nt
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Too Little Too Late. n/t
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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. It was all planned.
She brought the "assassination card" out in the open and the press ran with it.
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Heather MC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. That card shouldn't be in the deck. What a stupid comment
This woman has had secret service detail since 1992, Why are they there? to protect HER from and assisignation attempt. How the hell can she "play that card" when she has been living the protected life since 92.

She should understand "playing that card" gives whack a doos Ideas. Considering her life.

But you know what I have noticed everything she has tried to do to Obama has backfired in her face. Can't what to see what happens to her next. Maybe something "will happen to her in June"
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. Democrats neet to be careful with Kennedy, Republicans need to be careful with Reagan
It's probably a better idea to not bring them up under any circumstances. Same goes for Abe Lincoln. All I care about is NOW. What's Hillary going to do NOW? What's Obama going to do NOW? Bringing Kennedys into the discussion serves no one but the wankers in the audience.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. She did NOT aplogize. She says she only apoligizes *IF* it was offensive.
That means we have to prove it was offensive, or else she's not REALLY sorry.
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. She sort of apologized to the Kennedy's, not to Obama or his supporters.
She knew exactly what she was saying. I was willing to consider her for the VP slot but since she would be a heartbeat (or assasination) away from the presidency, it's all over for her. Obama better watch his back and definately avoid California in the middle of June.
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Don't quibble
Her apology is useless because she can't take back what she said.

We don't have to pick her nits over it. She's had a shakesperian moment and it's "Exeunt All"...
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Not quibbling. Just pointing out WHY it was not a real apology. n/t
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. OK, you win
:shrug:
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MindMatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. More like a Freudian moment
That little gem doesn't pop out unless, either:

a) it was calculated and intentional

or

b) it has been bouncing around her subconscious.

I don't care which it was. It is even more reason why we need to shut her down.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
41. and there you have it
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Clear Blue Sky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. Her comment was not a slip up. It was planned.
Everything out of her and Bill's mouth is calculated.

Easy to apologize after putting the idea out there.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Objection. Withdrawn. The jury will disregard...
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. good analogy - can't put it back. nt
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Clear Blue Sky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. Exactly.
The lawyer makes some inflammatory remark and then immediately withdraws it. But the jury hears it.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. she's an attorney
should we expect any different? :shrug:
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
37. dupe
Edited on Fri May-23-08 06:25 PM by shanti
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
44. I agree it was "planned" because this is the second or third X she's said it --- !!!
It must make sense somehow to her insensitive, ambition-obsessed brain --- ???!!!


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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. You put your left foot in, you pull your left foot out
:eyes:
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. Funny. Some Clinton supporters in the other thread were saying that she said nothing wrong.
Why is she apologizing then?
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raystorm7 Donating Member (944 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. The seed has been planted =/ Apologies don't matter.
Edited on Fri May-23-08 04:42 PM by raystorm7
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Betsy Ross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. Only apologized to the Kennedys
She still owes a serious apology to Senator Barack Obama.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Who wants her appologies. Show your remorse by slinking back to the Senate
Where you can vote for more wars and introduce more bills that honor Lacrosse teams.

Go away crazy lady, America doesn't want what you're pushin.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. At least she apologized. Now she can show her sincerity by bowing out.
As for those who DEFENDED her comment, I suppose they must be lining up to apologize, too. Right?
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. So, what's she saying? If Obama is assassinated it will work out in her favor?
Can't someone rein her in now?

sw
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
17. Damage done and I'm not buying the back peddling.
Everyone knows exactly what she meant and she can uncross her fingers now.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. Stupid IDIOT!
She NEEDS and intervention

WHERE THE HELL IS THE DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP!???!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!

It's time to sit her down tell her it's over and send her to her room
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. How many times have we heard one of her surrogates say, "In case something happens'?
I have been nervous about this for a long time. I'm a baby boomer, and I can't remember a candidate EVER referring to staying in the race 'in case something happens' to their opponent. I've lost count of how many times Kiki and her crew have said this, and it always makes me shudder.

I hope Obama has really dependable and loyal people all around him. I've lived long enough to see some very strange things happen.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Same here - anyone with a sense of history or who lived in the 60's
thinks of that awful June night, RFK bleeding on that LA hotel kitchen floor.

And Hillary lived in that security bubble for the nearly 2 decades. She's probably heard some frightening security briefings from the Secret Service. With the hateful crap the RW pundits stirred up daily against her and Bill there were times she had to be nervous or frightened for the life of Bill, herself or even Chelsea.

And as a Senator and candidate this deep in to the campaign she had to know better. I'm not a politician and I would know better not to make that slip!
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. I wonder if Obama is feeling BITTER?
For someone that made such a big deal over one word. Boy did she ever pick the wrong freakin word!
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mcollier Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Good Point
Truth of the heart is reveal through a foolish mouth... Who's looking like the fool now....?
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. I'm finding the language comming from her campaign Troubling.
Edited on Fri May-23-08 06:24 PM by Wizard777
Earlier they were saying that Hillary should be the VP incase something happened to Obama and now this. To think of the bitchin' we did about republican subliminals in 2004. It sound to me like Hillary's trying to scare him off the nomination.
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. Unfortunately, I think this falls into one of those "unintentional truth"
statements, just like the many Chimpy has made. The campaign HAS made many statements about "something happening" as though they are almost hoping that something catastrophic will happen to Senator Obama so that Senator Clinton can then have the nomination.
I do wish she would finally acknowledge that this is over, and return to the Senate; maybe become Majority Leader some day or something...but what she's doing to herself and to the Democratic Party is just senseless already.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
29. BullshitBullshitBullshit
She was making RFK/BO assassination comments before Teddy's health crisis hit the news.

BullshitBullshitBullshit!

This "apology" has as much credibility as the Kosovo cover story.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. In early March Hillary brought up RFK Assassination to Time Magazine
Edited on Fri May-23-08 05:50 PM by RamboLiberal
Though she has now apologized for that very strange and tasteless comment to the Argus-Leader, this was not the first time she's said it. This from her interview with TIME Managing Editor Richard Stengel, published March 6:

TIME: Can you envision a point at which--if the race stays this close--Democratic Party elders would step in and say, "This is now hurting the party and whoever will be the nominee in the fall"?

CLINTON: No, I really can't. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn't wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual.

Her excuse now is that the Kennedys have been "much on my mind these days" with the illness of Senator Edward Kennedy, but that doesn't explain what brought it to mind more than two months ago.

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/05/hillarys_bizarre_rfk_comment.html
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
31. ugh....
assassination, schmussassination... I wouldn't vote for her just because she said "an historic".... that's the worst thing any person ever can do.... or at least a native English speaker without a thick cockney accent.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
38. Apology NOT Accepted.
:puke:
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
39. Another hollow Clinton apology
Bill was so sorry about Monica Lewinsky. And then kept right on philandering. All you get from the Clintons are hollow apologies.

The racists, of course, will react with a "well, she had to apologize to be politically correct" which is fine because they are beneath contempt to begin with, as are the Clintons at this point, but what isn't fine is if some malcontent decides he needs to ensure Hillary Clinton becomes president by assassinating Barack Obama.

Anyone who would continue to support Hillary Clinton should hang their heads in shame. Maya Angelou in particular. How dare she continue to support someone who would endorse racism as Hillary Clinton has.

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MJJP21 Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
40. How many
How many posts have we seen on this board and others stating the suspicion many have regarding the safety of Obama if he is in any way involved with the Clintons. Well it looks like they have all been vindicated now that we know what is on Hillarys mind. Anyone ever look at this site called the Clinton Body count?
http://www.etherzone.com/body.html
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Right: She has motive; why give her opportuni ty?
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
43. She needs to apologize for what she clearly meant with this, and to Obama, and to US the Dem voters!
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
45. TOTALLY UNFORGIVABLE.... i am an Edwards supporter, that knocked my ass off the fence, i will start
Edited on Fri May-23-08 10:47 PM by sam sarrha
actively supporting Obama, i made that decision before i picked myself up off the floor. un-Fucking believable.

go Bama..!!!!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
46. Do any of you know what Obama said about the future of the western hemisphere
today in Miami, and what he didn't say, and what he merely got from the Associated Pukes?

It's a lot more important than what Hillary Clinton said. Did you know that you have a Manifest Destiny to show LEADERSHIP to those dumb peasants south of the border who are too stupid to know they are voting for a "demagogue" and an "authoritarian," and just keep voting for whoever they goddamn please. But the U.S. of A. will put them right and show them the way to freedom and democracy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6091431

And did you know that South America today formed the beginnings of a South American "Common Market," with all the countries on board, not including the U.S., and furthermore formed a continent-wide mutual defense agency. Do you know why? Do you know what the Bushites have been up to in Latin America? Do you know how Obama's policies follow from that, and how they don't?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3323008

Do you understand how close Obama's stated policies on Latin America are to this?

"The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez," by Donald Rumsfeld, 12/1/07
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/30/AR2007113001800.html

Cuz if you don't, you really should.

All this about Clinton's stupid gaffe--and it was a gaffe--is irrelevant and distracting, and driven by the war profiteering corporate 'news' monopolies to be a distraction, while your Corporate Lords decide the fate of your country for the next hundred years.

On South America, Obama has given us their more recent instructions. No Oil War. That's off, apparently. Whew! We're going to be subtler about "divide and conquer," smile more, pat the poor little starving kiddies on their heads, give them chocolate bars, and send them Peace Corps volunteers. And gosh, Obama will even TALK TO their ELECTED leaders, and he's so nice maybe they'll even let Exxon Mobil back into their country, and Monsanto, and Bechtel, and Dyncorp, and Blackwater, cuz they need our help and they need our protection from all those bad authoritarian dudes who are mean to our global corporate predators.

Understand, I like Obama. I like him a lot. I like his supporters even more--those who have made his successful campaign possible-- this great citizen activist movement that has arisen around his campaign. And I think he will be better than Clinton. And I think he will be far, far, far, far, infinitely better that what we've got now. I think he means well. I think he's sincere about policies of peace and cooperation, rather than war, torture and grand theft. I am also aware of the minefield he was walking onto in Miami, and that it took courage to tell anti-Castro Miami fascists that he intends to talk to Raul Castro, and other people they hate with all their hearts and mean-spirited, greedy souls.

Still, his speech made me want to puke, and took away chunks of my hope about a truly honest, fair, undevious, non-corporate -predator-driven, non-exploitive, truly peaceful U.S. policy in Latin America. He said all the wrong things. He pushed every one of my buttons. He kissed up to those Bush/USAID-funded Miami coup plotters and welfare kings. He pushed Bushite psyops and disinformation. And he pledged to send more billions and billions of OUR dollars (or, rather, China's and Saudi Arabia's) for the corrupt, failed, murderous "war on drugs," particularly to Colombia, where the military chainsaws union leaders and throws their body parts into mass graves. They really need more bullets, those guys, so they don't have to use chainsaws.

Puke! BUT... hey, Obama's at least intelligent, well-spoken, and opposed Bush's goddamn war when it was politically risky to do so. And he no doubt has a Bush Cartel target on his back. (It's not the Clinton's you need to worry about, compadres.) So he's gotta be careful in what he says, lest he step one of their major war profiteering, drugs/weapons trafficking or murder, inc., enterprises. I'll give him that much benefit of the doubt on South American policy. I wouldn't want to be up against these criminal fuckwads.

So that's what I think of Obama's major policy speech today. What do you think about it? Or you just gonna keep up this squabbling, like your Corporate Masters want you to?

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Independent007 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I liked your comment but you are slightly off base.
Your spirit is good. And I liked your comments. Someone though needs to drape a cloth around her like they did to James Brown at the Apollo and just drag her ass off stage.

Politicians just don't use the term assassination when they are referring to someone dropping out of the race. It is more than a gaffe my friend do you know why? Because she said this more than once. And she implicitly said this at least 4 times. If you saw Olberman's rebuke to her, you will understand why so many people are upset. If you saw her non-apology you will understand why people are upset.
If you understand the tragedy of assassinations in this country you will understand why so many people including Clinton supporters are upset. For her to use RFK's assassination as a reason to stay in the race is very very nefarious, and dark and unacceptable in todays political discourse.

I don't buy into the ole Ron Brown was killed, McDougal's husband was killed and Vince Foster was killed by the Clintons. No, I don't accept that. But in the discourse of politics, such a comparison(RFK) is so far off the pale of civil political discussion, that it makes you question Hillary's sanity. I cannot forgive her, nor pass this off as what you said, "squabbling". I would love to, but her failure to apologize to Obama but instead to Kennedy(not even the focus point of her comment) tipped me over.

Your comments about Obama and corporate America are good.But that applies to BOTH parties. You sound like a Nader fan. He won't win this year, but I like him too. I just feel that the "masses" as ignorant as they sometimes are, needs to be nudged gently, not abruptly. Obama will at least get this country on the right track, then if Nader is alive, he could take us over the top. Thanks for your comments PEACE PATRIOT, but Hillary's comments are not something to be dismissed.













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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. FORTY YEAR loyal Democratic voter, donor and activist. NEVER voted for Nader.
You'd better watch it, with those kind of swipes in a discussion. "You sound like a Nader fan. He won't win this year." But maybe after Obama overturns the Bush Junta and straightens things all out, "he could take us over the top." Right. And, you know what? At this point, I'll be overjoyed if we're merely able to hold an election here, and have some minimal confidence that all the votes were counted (and that the Bushite voting machine companies didn't, for instance, shave Obama's mandate, or (s)elect a "Blue Dog" Congress to prevent even minimal reform). I know where we're at. And it's NOT a good thing--not a good thing at all--that our choice is between torture, mass murder, grand theft, treason and shredding of the Constitution, and MINIMAL reform with a more pleasant demeanor. That is dangerous. That means that if minimal reform fails, we're back to outright fascism. And we could go back there real easy, considering WHO controls the voting machines with the "trade secret" code.

Our choice--between torture, mass murder, massive thievery and the end of our Constitution, on the one hand, and warm spit, a wing and a prayer on the other--is not a good one. We have to try to turn warm spit, a wing and prayer back into democracy. To do that, we must first STOP LYING to ourselves about what Obama is and what he is not. His speech on U.S. foreign policy in Latin America tells me a lot about what he is not. He is not well informed. He does not understand the peaceful, democratic, leftist revolution that has occurred in South America--the most amazing bloodless revolution that has ever occurred, anywhere, anytime. He thinks we can walk back in, with Manifest Destiny on our sleeve, and pursue "our" (global corporate predator) interests because now we're nice guys with corporate "win/win" palaver on our lips. His position, as expressed in this speech (i.e., audience may have influenced content), is very unrealiastic and based on Bushite DISINFORMATION.

And that has me VERY worried. For one thing, because it fails to acknowledge the reality our dead economy and their live ones. South America is the future. Their mixed socialist/capitalist ideas, with strong goals of social justice and FAIR trade--trade among equals--are the future of this hemisphere. Global corporate predation is the past. It has been rejected by half the hemisphere! By MOST of the hemisphere's people, and by their DEMOCRATICALLY, TRANSPARENTLY elected leaders. WE are the ones whose democracy is in big, big trouble, not them. And we dare to preach to them about democracy!? We, whose country has done everything it could, recently and for decades past, to KILL their democracies!?

"Manifest Destiny" is dead--unless it is again enforced by violence. And there is every sign and omen that violence is what the Bush Junta intends, before this year is out. That is the minefield that Obama walked into, in Miami. He had only certain limited spaces he can walk on.

"Free trade" and the World Fucking Bank have destroyed South American economies. They are destroying Peru's economy, as we speak. And that is the NICE "free trade" deal that Obama supports. The only people who still welcoming U.S.-dominated "free trade" into their countries, in South America, are goddamned crooks (Peru) or fascist murderers (Colombia). Alan Garcia (president of Peru) is as crooked as they come. It is ALREADY disastrous. Peru is wracked by the kind of protests by the poor, especially poor food farmers, that we saw in Bolivia before they finally elected a president who represents the MAJORITY. Dirt poor people do NOT mount such protests unless they are HURTING, and hurting BADLY. In every case of U.S.-dominated "free trade," an upper class elite gets richer, and the majority gets fucked over. But more than this, the whole country gets fucked over--corporate agriculture drives millions of small food farmers off the land into shantytowns in the cities; food self-sufficiency is lost; the society becomes addicted to glitzy imported goods, and neglects local manufacturing, local food production, local infrastructure development and local arts. And this is often combined with ruinous World Bank/IMF loans, with the rich ripping off the money and leaving the poor to pay the debt. Education, medical care, small business loans and grants, social security, upward mobility--all out the window. The country goes bankrupt. The rich flee to Miami.

From OUR point of view--that is, the oblivious point of view enforced by our corporate 'news' monopolies, sweetened with warm spit (some ideas of niceness)--the fascist state of Colombia shouldn't be blessed with U.S. corporate predator "free trade" because they slaughter union leaders and poor peasants (using military equipment WE paid for). That's a no-no (i.e., corporate "news" unable to suppress the stories). We say we don't want the U.S.-funded Colombia military offing union leaders for Occidental Petroleum, Monsanto and Chiquita. Fine. But we then pose that EXTREME against U.S.-dominated "free trade" in a country the BUSHITES were able to worm their way into, via corrupt politicians (Peru), where they DON'T shoot union leaders (they are suppressed in "nicer" ways--tear gas, beatings, jail, calling them "terrorists"); we throw in a few labor and environmental protections ON PAPER--protections that a corrupt government can easily get around--and pat ourselves on the back (Obama) for being progressive.

THIS is why country after country in South America is saying "Nor more!". It is why they are forming a South American "Common Market" WITHOUT THE U.S. It is why they formed the Bank of the South. It is why leaders like Hugo Chavez (Venezuela), Rafael Correa (Ecuador), Evo Morales (Bolivia), Cristina Fernandez (Argentina), Fernando Lugo (Paraguay), Tabare Vasquez (Uruguay), Daniel Ortega (Nicaragua) and others are SO POPULAR, and keep getting elected. It is NOT because Hugo Chavez is a "demagogue." It is because the IDEAS of Hugo Chavez and all these other leaders are BETTER for the MAJORITY.

Obama dismisses all this as Chavez "demagoguery" and "checkbook diplomacy." Well, guess who's the demagogue? That is just crap. There is no VACUUM in South America. There is DEMOCRACY in South America, at long last. And the majority poor whom we have been fucking over for centuries will not be fucked over yet again by U.S. "leadership." We need them. They don't need us. That is the situation. And this fairy tale that Obama spins about the U.S. feeding the poor brown people and bringing them democracy is laughable. Does he know that? I dunno. I am not encouraged. Is he a tool of the corporate predators, playing "good cop/bad cop" and "divide and conquer" games? I really don't know. There is lots of evidence of it, in this speech.

In order to BECOME a respectful, legitimate, equal partner within the hemisphere's "Common Market," or in some other good trade relationship with it, WE MUST REFORM. Seriously reform. WE must get serious about social justice. WE must rein in our putrid global corporate predator monopolies. WE must stop bullying the world--economically and militarily. WE must clean up our act. And we must STOP DICTATING to Latin America--whether with a smile on our face, or with the 4th Fleet behind our threats. Or they won't have us! THEY are fundamentally changing the balance of power in this hemisphere in their favor. We can continue to let ourselves become the biggest "Banana Republic" on earth--run by fascist corporations--or we can LEARN from this leftist revolution in South America, and kick the global corporate predators the fuck out of our country , or, at least, reassert our SOVEREIGNTY as a people OVER them. If we don't, it is not South America that will suffer. They are on their own path to SELF-DETERMINATION. It is we who will suffer; we the people of the U.S.

Obama--if this speech is to be believed--wants to return to the old relationship with Latin America, minus the gunboats. It is the Clinton formula, basically. But conditions are VERY changed, BECAUSE of that failed policy. We cannot impose it now, even with the gunboats. They will fight back, this time. Why do you think Brazil proposed a South American-only defense group, without the U.S., which as been quickly agreed to by the others? Obama talks about our interest in "security" in South America. They're interested in it, too--security AGAINST the U.S. and its ill-intended global corporate predators. WE are their primary threat.

Hugo Chavez gave us a model of national sovereignty over global corporate predators. Venezuela nationalized its oil long before Chavez, but prior rightwing regimes were giving away 90% of the profits to multinationals. Chavez asserted Venezuela's right to set the terms for multinational involvement in Venezuela, by insisting on a 60/40 split in favor of the Venezuelan people, who are greatly benefiting from this money, in far-thinking social programs and economic policies. Norway's Statoil, France's Total, British BP and even Chevron agreed. Exxon Mobil ($40 BILLION in gas gouging profits last year) would not--and went into the first world courts seeking to freeze $12 billion in Venezuela's assets, as PUNISHMENT for Venezuela's assertion of its RIGHT to set the terms--and very possibly also in conspiracy with the Bushites to destabilize Venezuela and once again try to topple its democratic government. Exxon Mobil lost in a London court. They lose. The others win. That is how it SHOULD be. The PEOPLE rule. We should be ruling here, too. We are the sovereign rulers of this land--in theory. What we say, goes--in theory. We say who does business and who doesn't, and on what terms--in theory. But that hasn't been true here for some time. We need to re-establish that principle--the principle of our sovereignty--and the South Americans are showing us how it's done.

Obame would not be permitted to become President of the United States if he said this--if, instead of attacking Hugo Chavez, on the basis of BUSHITE lies, he attacked Exxon Mobil & brethren. I understand this. We may have to restore democracy here by increments. We are in a perilous situation, with criminals and traitors having been in control of our government for eight years--during which the POWER of global corporate predators over us has grown more lethal, and includes ALL corporate media. But we shouldn't close our eyes to our situation, make a wish and hope for the best. We should be fully cognizant of the facts, even if our candidates are not, or even if they are, and can't speak the truth. The Obama campaign is something of reclaiming of our democratic heritage. It does offer hope, of at least decent, honest government, if not real reform. Obama's SUPPORTERS, and the American people, want real reform. That is not going to happen--if this speech is any indication (even forgiving some of it, considering who the audience was)--and we need to be prepared for that--for disappointment--and for a long, difficult struggle to get our country back.

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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
48. I'm sure that comment got the Vincent Foster conspiracy folks fired up
What a gaffe.
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
49. It wasn't an apology
and I for one don't accept it.
The hell with her, she needs to quit now, imagine the lunatic fringe agreeing with her about this.

Bringing up assassination is just plan stupid and dangerous for Obama.
Just makes me want to vomit, the lengths she will go...what a fucking ass she is.
And THIS is the woman the hillbots want leading our country?
Insanity.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
50. Some things are unforgiveable.
This is one. Hillary Clinton knew exactly what she was doing when she said that.
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
52. "The Kennedys have been much on my mind in the last days because of Senator Kennedy..."
She gets a backlash after expressing her fondest wish, so she hides behind a man's brain cancer?

WHAT A MISERABLE, LOATHSOME FUCKING BITCH. If she does get her wish, I'll vote Green Party in November. I can't vote for McCain, but there is NO FUCKING WAY I'd ever vote for her.

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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
53. Women have PMS
that thing alone disqualifies them touch the Nuke buttons.

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