Source: Sun Sentinel

After each classmate was allowed to say what they didn't like about Barton's 5-year-old son, his Morningside Elementary teacher Wendy Portillo said they were going to take a vote, Barton said.

By a 14-2 margin, the students voted the boy, who is in the process of being diagnosed with autism, out of the class.

Melissa Barton filed a complaint with Morningside's school resource officer, who investigated the matter, Port St. Lucie Department spokeswoman Michelle Steele said. But the State Attorney's Office concluded the matter did not meet the criteria for emotional child abuse, so no criminal charges will be filed, Steele said.

Steele said the boy had been sent to the principal's office because of disciplinary issues. When he returned, Portillo made him go to the front of the room as a form of punishment, she said.

Read more: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/treasurecoast/sfl-flpkindergartner0525pnmay25,0,2574622.story

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i don't understand how this can not be abuse . even if he wasn't autistic this isn't the right way to discipline a student. maybe there is more to this than what is reported in this article.

I am just shocked. I have even seen teachers who used a team player type of discipline, but nobody was ever allowed to mock or be cruel to the boy who had some serious behavioral challenges. They were encouraged to help him, that was part of the "team" plan.

That teacher is a nut.

items and file a complaint against the teacher, the school and the district. that whole group of dimwits could lose their licenses. I would also sue their butts. I've had autistic kids. they may make you crazy sometimes but not this. this is so bad, I cannot fathom the cruelty of it. someone needs to help guide these parents to justice.

Disabled, emotionally abused, healthy and otherwise. They ALL make you crazy sometimes, but not this. EVER.

...I would be demanding that this teacher be removed for leading the classroom in such a cruel and inhumane act against one of their peers.

Hekate

is teaching in her abuse of a student she apparently cannot handle.

sad but true. Many pay lip service to how great kids are but when it comes right down to it many let it go with the lame excuse of "kids will be kids".

Since when is our education system run like "Survivor" where participants get voted out? :silly:

I vote we throw that teacher out.

A bunch of 5 year-olds get to choose who they will have in their class?

JI7

This must be wrong and against most form of "discipline" a kid.. Specially when the kid is a 5 year old kid, who possible have autism.. My brother have autism, and in some way he was maybe little "off the road" when he was at school, but thankfully because that he never had "bad teachers" he was never given such treatment.. As little kid, or as a older student..

He has asbergergs syndrome, my little brother, and hi is function very well in his environment, even that he might when he is tired or sad, or scared are slippering into his own little world.. Why by the way would be a very fascinating world to come into.. If he just managed to write down what he is seeing inside his amazing head:applause:My brother was given a "normal upbringing" And I guess that is maybe for the best, for many with asbergers syndrome. Off course he was given special education and so on..And he was picket on, but as I once sad.. You have no right to bully my. brother,if anyone should bully my brother, I should bully him,... And after that my brother was not been picket on. But I have to say, Okay, he is a head bigger than me now, and almost 30, but still, he is my "little brother"... And in many pretext me still maybe be a kid, but now in a grown up man's body..

To treat a little kid like that.. Is just appealing, and the teacher who was treating a kid like that, should be suspend for a long time,, without pay, and with a permanent record in the CV, who say why he/she was given the suspending in the fist place.. This is not the way you should treat kids with special needs if you ask me..

Just to think, what the feeling this kid had experienced because of this experience.. Poor kid.. Just because he are not good to express what he is feeing are not the same as the kid are not experience a deep feeling of sadness... Or fear for what the rest of the class are doing... I really hope the parents and others are doing something to do this right... And for the rest of the class, what had they leering about this.. It is Ok to pick on weak children/People who could not possible fight their own battles.. Are this the "new american century" where you have to pick on others weaker, because if you don't you would be picket on yourself...?
This is just sick.. plain sick..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

It is a rule on DU to forgive misspellings or grammatical errors when English is a second language, and I see you are in Norway. :hi:

Both my husband and I are on the scale. We are high functioning, and quite content.

For some reason, bullies tend to pick on the kids with autism or Asperger’s; it is like the kids are a magnet for abuse.

I have a friend who teaches, in elementary school. She just flat out doesn’t like the kids with Asperger’s/autism. I think certain personalities have more trouble with the social difficulties that these kids can have.

I think it may be that they don't get the feedback that they need from these kids, sort of a selfish angle.

The teacher in this case did something that would hurt this boy the most, she made him feel ostracized, and that is cruel.

"didn't meet the criteria for emotional child abuse"

Somehow I think the state attorney's office is full of shit.

they don't like about the teacher.....most likely not....

It was because the kids said it, not an adult.

It's also really hard to prove emotional abuse. We had a parent once who told her kid repeatedly that she wished he was dead. But that didn't meet the criteria either.

To stand against the rest of the class at the age of five takes a lot
of courage.

This incident is symptomatic of what's wrong with our educational system. Another facet of the problem is this: My younger daughter is in a class of 23, with 5 special needs kids and NO AIDE. So basically the SN kids get to wander the class while the teacher *tries* to educate the typical kids. She appeases the SN kids by allowing them to wander as long as they are quiet. I found out about this through a parent who is a substitute teacher in the classroom.

The 5 are taken to a resource room but I wonder what the point is of a mainstream classroom in which they can't learn without proper guidance. Oh wait, I know. M-O-N-E-Y. The school gets extra funding for mainstreaming special needs kids. And if the teacher complains, the administration will threaten to fire her.

My daughter hasn't complained about any of the kids themselves (she wouldn't anyway, she's probably the kindest kid I know), but she is bored out of her mind and HATES going to school.

If that was true, they would ALL be mainstreamed.

Actually they get more money for more time IN sped, not out of sped. Mainstreaming is out of sped.

to go to resource on subjects they have difficulty with. My kid was mainstreamed starting in Jr. High School and he currently is at NC State University completing 3 Associates Degrees and is now working on a Bachelors Degree. He will pay more in taxes with these degrees than had he not been mainstreamed and slipped through the cracks. I don't think he kept anyone from learning.

that will be real leaders one day...

It takes a lot to stand on your own at any age.

I never ran with the herd

not only is it cruel to the child in question, but it is teaching the other children to be emotional bullies. Like Matilda, I am impressed by the fact that two children did have the courage to withstand the pressures!

I wonder if the teacher was influenced by the 'encounter group' ideas of 30 years ago; it's her subsequently asking the child to say how he felt that brought this into my mind. Or more likely she could be just out of her depth and incompetent and therefore resorting to bullying techniques to deal with the situation. At any rate, she should not be teaching young children.

She probably thought she was doing it for the kid's own good.

The fuck it didn't!!

This is child abuse. I'm outraged!


peace~

Asperger's. But, fortunately, his social skills are advancing because he had a great Kindergarten teacher this year....certainly not like the witch the other poor boy had. SHE is the one who lacks social skills, it looks like....

Give that kid a :hug: from me... unless of course he has sensory issues and doesn't like hugs:) Your grandson will likely grow up to be an amazing man!

bright as a tack and loves his objects....and Math...!!!!

But, he will hug Grammie but he just doesn't kiss yet. He doesn't like tags in his shirt or "raspy" jeans, though, either, and neither do I....

of quite a lot of the current crop of bullies, manipulators, cowards, fascists, and assholes.

If this were my child in that classroom (whether the autistic kid or any of the others), I would be screaming for this little witch's head.

I've never heard of this sort of thing in Palm Beach County. So surely, you mean "Only in that school in Florida...", yes?

What a sick bitch.

Unruly behavior must be punished, but without knowing more of the situation, it's hard to tell what prompted the mess. Was he loud and unruly by default, or did other children clandestinely do things to make him react?


Edited: Grammar.

or did other children clandestinely do things to make him react?

No one ever bothered to be clandestine about it with me! :(

and the class did something about it.

"In the process" of being diagnosed w/autism? If he'd been having disciplinary problems for some time, had his mother made arrangements with the school to isolate those problems so as not to affect the education of the other children? Doesn't sound like it.

I don't think this is the whole story. The State Atty General's office may have gotten the whole story, and found that the kid wasn't abused. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. But it seems he needs schooling and teachers who are equipped to deal with children with problems.

And if the certified teachers and professionals can't handle a five year old without "shunning" the child, they don't deserve the positions they hold.

"in the process" of being diagnosed with something, as opposed to having been diagnosed with something already.

I am wondering if this is a case of a bad kid who was being disruptive and interfering with the other children's education. No doubt the mother had been notified of these problems before, and nothing was done to resolve the situation.

It should've been handled privately, though. I suspect something wrong with the mother, actually. Things like this don't just happen suddenly without warning, usu. There's a history behind it, usually.

But the child needs to be with teachers who are trained to educate autistic children. The average teacher is not. The other children's education cannot be made to suffer.

While there may be more to this than what the article says, it is the norm for diagnosis and treatment plans to be delayed, ignored if possible, etc. in many school districts. Some however, perhaps because they have some resources and understand that funds are available for special needs, actually encourage diagnosis and IEPs.

We have a long-standing and perhaps very slowly improving history of stigmatizing any and all brain disordered people in this country. The outcome for such people, which could be prevented in most cases with proper approach at age 5 in this case, is incarceration, not treatment.

So long as we pay cities/counties/states to lock people up, while not providing for medical care - especially public psychiatric hospitals - this will continue. Of course almost no one in prison gets treatment for their medical problems, especially brain problems.

Best/worst example is bipolar disorder. It has been tremendously underdiagnosed in this country for years, but is known to affect 5% of all people in every country/culture etc. In Texas these folks usually get jailed for things as simple as odd behavior, which enriches the jailers and their system, while an outright suicidal person cannot get inpatient treatment in many cases. The latter due to lack of funding, which means lack of treatment availability. This has been much worse since the Texas MHMR system got "privatized". The way that happened was private agencies bid for services in geographic areas, got a lump sum, and their profit then became dependent on how much they had left at the end of a fiscal period.

Rather obviously, they make more profit if they provide less treatment. And guess how that has played out?

There's no magic Psychological Disorder Detector that can confirm that sort of thing in one shot. There's a fairly involved process of elimination behind a lot of diagnostic processes. My sister's bipolar and it took most of a year and a half the narrow the diagnosis down to that, mainly to make sure they wouldn't be treating a nonexistent problem to ill effect. Giving someone with bipolar I antidepressants because the initial visits were during a downswing would be ... bad, for instance. I imagine it's the same with quite a few problems.

Whoever's got "something wrong" with them, though, having a round table discussion with kindergarten students where they each have a turn to say what they hate about one of their classmates is beyond the fucking pale, though.

and if you think it is, get help. You're as nut as the teacher. You never treat a kid like that, especially a 5 year old.

could possibly find anything "suspicious" about the parents' story. And how fucking typical to blame the mother.

The fact is that children aren't born with full disclosure labeling. It can take years for some disabilities to become apparent. In this kid's case, he may only be a couple of years developmentally delayed socially Just when do you think such a delay would become obvious in children? Anyone who stops to think of it would realize that until a kid is about 5, there wouldn't be much concern about social delays.

A kindergarten teacher should realize that part of the job is figuring out which children are going to need more attention in basic skills. That job nowhere includes humiliating any kid. Portillo needs a new job. Preferably one that will keep her far away from any other human being. After all, she's not 5, and not in any way developmentally delayed. Therefore, her lack of social skills can only be attributed to being a skin-container for evil.

but I am not going to jump up and defend the parent either.

These stories always have the same pattern. Something happens at school and the mom calls the media. They get her version of the story and only her version because the school is forbidden by privacy laws from telling their version.

And yes, more than once, I know of stories where the mom has bent the truth more than a bit to the media.

In this case I find it interesting that the mom mentions she has been taking him to the doctor since February and suspects he is autistic. Since I am a special ed teacher and I have seen this play out in many other situations, I am positive that this child did not enter kindergarten in September and Mom had no concerns at that time. So my first question is why didn't the mom get her kid some help before February? Did he go to pre-school and did those teachers try to tell Mom her child needed help? What about daycare? Babysitters? The only thing we know for sure (of course based on Mom's word) is that he been disrupting his class all year and Mom finally realized in FEBRUARY he needed some medical help. That means that for SIX MONTHS this child disrupted the education of his classmates. So yes, I do place a certain amount of blame on the mother.

But as I said, the teacher didn't do what was best for the child either.

It takes for fuck-ever to get a diagnosis and treatment plan for someone of any age if the disability in question isn't open and shut. So, this little boy was perhaps disruptive. That is a common trait in preschoolers. The doctors and educators alike probably told the mom to not worry, that he was likely just a little behind the curve on social development. But a couple months of kindergarten showed it was more than that. So now appointments have to be made. What? You think you just call up a child psychiatrist and make an appointment? Oh, no. You have to start with the PCP. Then go to whichever specialists the PCP first choses. Then back to the PCP. Then maybe you get to go to the doctor you needed in the first place. Then there are tests to be run. Then more tests. Then plans to be made. And all this has to go on while you are still trying to earn a living and take of other aspects of life.

The timeline is completely what one would expect if one had any experience of going through a diagnostic process.

As for calling the media, looks like the mom didn't do that until after the school refused to discipline the teacher. Good for her. Teachers who endorse bullying need to find new careers.

>"In the process" of being diagnosed w/autism? If he'd been having disciplinary problems for some time, had his mother made arrangements with the school to isolate those problems so as not to affect the education of the other children? Doesn't sound like it.<

The mother was in the process of a diagnosis for her child along with working on an IEP (individual educational plan) for her child. The 'problem' was being dealt with, the teacher committed a heinous act, and the innocent little children followed her...(except for two beautiful & brave little ones.) The mother was working with the system, and the teacher did the unthinkable.

>Children diagnosed with Asperger's often exhibit social isolation and eccentric behavior. The boy has had disciplinary issues because of his disability, Barton said. School and district officials have met with Barton and her son to create an individual education plan to address his difficulties, she said. Portillo attended these meetings, Barton said.<

This is hitting too close to home for me.

peace~

The two who voted with him were his partners in crime, and the 14 who voted against were the victims of his endless bratty torturing. And the mother's some grifter looking for a payday.

Given the story, both versions seem equally plausible.

She should not have involved the other children like that...

and never how the parent dropped the ball.

What did this parent do to meet her kid's needs before he started kindergarten? Or did she just wait for the school to pressure her to get some medical care? And if she took him to the doctor in Feb, what is the delay all about?

I am a special ed teacher and there are a few holes in this story.

That being said, what the teacher did was cruel. I do not in any way condone her actions.

she should have put the kid in time out or sent him to the principle's office or called the parents to come pick him up.

She shouldn't have made a bigger spectacle of it, by having some kind of bizarre "Survivor" like event. It was completely unprofessional and insensitive. If she cannot handle five year olds, then she should get out of the fucking profession. This teacher's actions were disgusting, bullying and emotionally abusive. I hope she's fired and is no longer in education.

.......in the 30's, 40's, 50's and even the 60' & 70's. I used to say during the Vietnam conflict, that the quickest way to win the war was to send ALL the nuns & brothers over there. The Catholic church had it all; physical AND psychological "torture".

is teaching in a Catholic school. They've come a long way lately.....

I went to a Catholic grade school for 8 yrs and that is one of the biggest reasons I am against ANY organized religion.

still working at one....but I do have to say that a little discipline never hurt anyone....I left the Catholic school for a public school and 1 1/2 years after being there I was assaulted by a 10 year old....neurological damage and surgery and early retirement....and the girl got off with no punishment at all. Go figure!

That's why the grandson is in one now.....despite all the Title IX he would get at the public school for his disability. Discipline over disability....works wonders.

Just don't get down to Hagee's level when judging the Church.

.....grew up, but I FIRMLY stand by my original statement. The reason the Catholic church is in the shape they are now in, is because of the policies they practiced from early on up until this day. AND don't even get into comparing my views to a FUCKING Hagee, you don't want to go there with me.

I grew up in the church in the 60's, Baltimore catechism and Latin and all....I know what you are talking about at age 56 but it isn't the Church that is at fault, it is the humans in the Church...and then not all of them.

BTW, I missed Mass myself today. So, I can identify with your disillusion, but I stand by my comment that discipline never hurts and is more effective than appeasement. Does that make sense?

Peace.

....church and their schools is another whole discussion. I am 60 yo and the TWO biggest things in my life now are GOOD education for ALL, and organized religion. I will get in awful fights and discussions over those things alone, not to mention all the other things that bother or piss me off in this world. I am an agnostic and (probably) a socialist in my spiritual and political makeup at this stage in my life. I meant no harm or animosity toward you.

And, I know how "heated" discussions can go. I have a Conservative Jewish son-in-law (chuckle, chuckle)....so I just try to avoid "discussions" and get along with everyone.

Peace!

a Catholic but transferred there in the 6th grade. Best education I ever had and really helped me at a time in my life when my home life was unstructured and unstable.

discipline begins at home ...

8 years and I never once saw a kid abused, emotionally or physically. I also taught in Catholic schools for 5 years and saw no abuse.

the students in my class were fairly horrid, and I myself was fairly troubled for a kid, but the school itself was a wonderful place. I think I may have been better off in a public school with a larger student body, but I hardly blame the school for that.

not all anecdotal stories match up.

....tell me what and who to believe in, calling it "faith" instead of stupidity.

Circa 1967 or so. He was a physical threat to everyone in the room, but especially to any idea of discipline.

This "teacher" is in certainly in need of an education about the law, and shouldn't be trusted with any life form other than a house plant. :grr:!

Students With Disabilities:
Requirements Under Section 504 of
The Rehabilitation Act of 1973

Education Services Must Meet Individual Needs.

Students With Disabilities Must Be Educated With Non-disabled Students.

Evaluation and Placement Decisions Must Be Made in Accord With Appropriate Procedures.

Recipients Must Have Due Process Procedures for the Review of Identification, Evaluation, and Placement Decisions.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

It's also being mismanaged - has been for 30+ years.

FAPE. Yes, tax payers pay, and we all pay taxes. FAPE means that a child with disabilities is entitled to a public education, just as is any other child. Up until 1973, children could be denied the right to an education if they were disabled, and they generally were. We all pay our fucking taxes, and I'm not always happy with were the money is being spent either, but if you think the money in your schools is being misspent then DO something about it instead of whining about it like a republican.

lunch to passerby so that my child could go to school before 1973 but the public school gladly accepted my tax money to educate all the other children. We parents worked for years to get our children accepted into the school system and that IMO is where they are going to stay.

Thank you for your efforts.

When the children in question are causing disruption in the school room and in somes cases, injury to their classmates?

:sarcasm:

and work to fix it then. The worst mismanagement has come in the form of unfunded mandates and NCLB bull crap. Every state is different as to the priority it gives education but the whole country is back sliding because we are putting all of our money in war and oil.

you have earned my deepest respect, and so have your parents...you were obviously taught the meaning of compassion.

To Ms. Portillo: FUCK OFF! You should lose your right to ever teach in another public classrom. I'm an educator, and what this teacher did is beyond the pale. It's the most outrageous thing I've ever heard of.

She not only abused this child with autism. She abused every child in that classroom. What the hell did she think she was doing? Yes, I understand the pressures involved in having a child with behavioral issues in the class. But, this is grounds for dismissal.

Plus, the schoolboard and the IEP team should be paying for a trained adult to be sitting in class with the child in question. Cheap-assed bastards for not having that advocate in place.

What a cruel thing to do to a child. And, those who investigated should have filed charges. Doesn't rise to emotional abuse, MY ASS.

I have to wonder how this "voting" gimmick will be tolerated in later years.

Seems like abuse to me. That's gotta be crippling.

Now some people willfully cause obscene outbursts. Others simply overreact. If there is a relative degree in this, I hope he's not the kind who reacts to others' picking.

I miss the days when unruly students, regardless, got rapped on the knuckles. That way neither side had a chance to act up. (at least, in theory, and maybe I am wearing rose tinted time traveling x-ray glasses...)

uncomfortable around the disabled. Teachers are among them. Irregardless of what the teacher and State Attorney's office says it is abuse. I would start working for whoever runs against the State Attorney General next election because clearly, he or she needs to lose their job if they don't understand the definition of the word abuse. I would also take my child out of that school.

"Oh Brave New World that has such people in it!"

That cretin running the class watches too much bad television.

I don't know if the report is accurate, since I do not trust the media enough.

I imagine the kid has a lot of issues. If so, who is to address them?

Are we sure the kid will be emotionally scarred for life? Or, could this be the wakeup call that reaches him?

Could not waking him also be abuse?

Wake Up Call to a 5 yr old? I hope you weren't serious!

Assuming for the moment that the facts may be in dipute, your comment shows incredible ignorance and insensitivity.

BTY- it can take a lot of time to definitively diagnose Autism or Asperger's Syndrom since diagnosis is based on a constellation of symtoms on a spectrum of disorders.

Autisim spectrum disorders can sometimes be diagnosed as early as one or two yrs old, but, depending on the severity of symptoms, may not become apparent until much later.

Being a teacher (and union official) in New York who has worked with children with autisim spectrum disorders, and whose wife (a speech pathologist) works with them every day, I can say that any teacher who behaved in the way this teacher is alleged to have behaved would be immediately removed from the classroom pending an investigation, and at the least would be severely diciplined if not fired were the allegations proved to be accurate.

there is no question in my mind that this would constitue child abuse of the worst kind; from an adult who is perceived as an authority figure in a place that's supposed to be safe.

I think they can be, the question is how.

My only real comment was that no one offered an alternative. I don't think you find that incredibly ignorant and insensitive. I must note: you did not offer an alternative.

I imagine that in your work it is safer to not address certain things such as my last question. It is better for all teachers to avoid finding alternatives and to let the student go through year after year hoping the student will figure it out for the self some year in the future, someday, although, that seems better for the employ rather than the teaching.

But, for the student, that only hopes what is needed will happen.

Thanks for posting, welcome, post much more. We're not all so incredibly such.

In a young child it is difficult to definitively give a definite diagnosis of autism or Asberger's. I know whereof I speak -- I have a child who is borderline for both. She doesn't fit a diagnosis for either, yet she shows symptoms of both. There are no "alternatives" but to meet the child where he or she is at that particular point in time, and that means having a lot of patience and a lot of understanding. It does NOT mean ostracizing him or her from a class, or isolating from their "more-perfect" peers. These kids have a tough-enough row to hoe as it is. We don't need schools making it harder.

I don't expect you to understand, unless you have walked in the shoes of a parent who has a child who cannot fit into a "perfect mold." And unfortunately, the tough truth is that most people don't want to take the time to understand this frustrating journey that a lot of parents and kids have found themselves on. You've made at least that much clear (well, as much as I can decipher, anyway).

Vague, but a start.

It is true that some kids fit into those perfect molds more perfectly than others. Those kids scare me the most. Too perfect, tells me something is wrong, very very very wrong.

Then there are those too far from perfect. Those I like most of all.

There are also perfect teachers. Those I like. There are also lousy rotten disgusting teachers. Regardless of how I feel about them, they are there. At least I can call for POSITIVE examples among the myriad of negative comments. That's what I asked for from the beginning.

A good positive idea might turn some poor teacher into a good one, even a great one.

I wish you and your kids well.

Sometimes "vague" is all you get, and you have to accept that. That is one of the problems, I guess, with depending on medicine and psychology to have all the answers when you want them, when in fact it is a case of "time will tell" -- time will tell exactly what it is we're dealing with, and time will tell how we and she will learn to cope.

We all want our children to be happy and productive, and to succeed at whatever they attempt. When you're a parent of a child whose future is one big question mark, it's scary, frustrating, and maddening. And also very difficult to convey to those who are on the outside looking in.

I hope you find things to do that work. Some choices you make will make others mad. I'd rather be called a dumbass, than to have no spine to try anything at all, only to spend my time shouting "Wrong!" to others.

May your young one grow into someone who accomplishes more than what she needs, into the realms of what she wants.

And, may mommy and daddy survive and see it happen each and every day.

"solution" under any circumstances. That is what we have been negative about: A state agency found this behavior on the part of the teacher to be ok! Most of us do not even if we do not know all of the story. Especially those of us who are parents find her behavior appalling.

In New York schools there are many alternatives for children with autism spectrum disorders ranging from mainstreaming in a regular class (sometimes with an aide) to small special Ed. Classes with trained teachers, to special educational institutions for children with severe autism.

Autism spectrum disorders cannot be cured, but help is a available at all levels. My wife’s specialty (she works in a public school) is working with children on language and social interaction. It takes a great deal of time and patience because children with autism typically don’t “get” how other’s facial expressions, body language, and even voice inflection express emotions, so they do not react or behave accordingly. They must be taught things which most of us learn instinctively. It takes time, but it can be done.

They also can be very sensitive to sounds and crowds, and can behave in a sometimes dangerous or self-destructive manner. Through patience and understanding, they can be helped to learn to control this behavior.

All those are great, but require large investments, including the investment of LATER.

What can be done at the point a problem arises, or when in a situation where the large-investment alternatives keep failing.

That's harder, but should be possible.

place and there should have been an aide to help with SN children. This is the alternative that is often used in other schools. I don't think you want an alternative - I think you would have voted for this child to be out.

Also you say this 5 year old can be reached. Well you are ignoring the fact that this child has a disability and may need medication when the diagnosis process is completed. Until then the only alternative will be the above use of extra help in the classroom.

You come very close to sounding like you think that this child is expendable. No child is a throwaway at that age. Actually no child is a throwaway. Unless we are talking about *ss's NCLB.

Well, thank you. Yes, an alternative was suggested on #60. But, in my defense, I said there was not one at my post #45. (I couldn't see into the future at that point in time.) And it was even later someone noted extra help for the teacher.

I kept wanting alternatives, and took a lot of hits asking for them.

Now you think I don't even want ONE alternative despite what I've said. And, you think I'd vote the child out despite what I've said about liking the children who don't fit well. And, I'm ignoring the specter of disability, despite it not being known and my direct responses acknowledging it anyway. And, I come close to deeming the child expendable despite my statement of liking such.

Perhaps I'm so awful in your eyes because I do not judge myself based on what "most" of us think.

And they have been godsends to my child.

If you don't live this, you have no clue as to what hurdles you face. That's why I'm basically done posting with this particular person.

Thanks to the Individuals with Disabilities Act (IDEA). Sadly, most school districts spend more time figuring out how to avoid putting them into practice than to meeting them. Even simple things like a second set of textbooks or arranging classes on one floor are often refused or made possible only after legal action.

she should have taken it up with the parents. If he displayed signs of a behavioral disorder or autism, that should have also been addressed privately and confidentially with the parents.

This kind of bullying cannot be tolerated in schools, especially by teachers. This kind of thing can be very traumatic for a child of any age. It is unacceptable.

Yes, the parents. And it was taken up with the parents, and doctors were working on it.

There is more to discuss here, but it seems most people on this thread read the post, but respond to some other thought still in their own mind.

And, between the concepts of punishment and healing, they opt for punishment with such ferocity, they cannot even acknowledge the concept of healing.

What should have been done is nothing compared to what needs to be done now.

But, with everyone interested in pointing fingers, and only pointing fingers, those quiet people with good ideas will know to remain quiet. Only the confident loud-mouth will speak whatever idea the cock-sure might have.

This situation is sad. Those kindergartners are hurting as well has the ostracized kid.

They are too young to write apologies, and saying them, depending on how handled, could hurt them further.

It's a worse mess than this thread.

Thanks.

Dozo.

What kind of "wakeup call" can you give a kid who may have a diagnosis of autism?

Do you know how hard it is to diagnose such problems in a young child? Do you have any inkling of how frustrating and heartbreaking it is to see a child with problems that cannot be definitively pinpointed?

Schools and teachers want cookie-cutter-perfect kids -- any hint of a problem and they just don't want to deal. That also adds to the frustration, as do dumbass comments like yours.

Quite the death nell.

I try to focus on what we should do, you complain that some teachers want perfect students, you offer NOTHING, and then you claim my attempt is dumbass.

Really.

What do you bring to the table?

Autism varies in severity; an accurate diagnosis can be elusive. It may take years of tests before any definitive conclusion can be reached. Meanwhile, parents have to work with schools and teachers that may or may not be willing to return the effort.

I've seen kids like the one in the story pigeonholed and basically ostracized from the minute a teacher suspects a "problem." Or if the parents are unreceptive to the teacher's "suggestion" of medication.

And I stand by my assessment of your original comment.

The human animal is actually remarkably resilient, emotionally and otherwise.

This thread really highlights the lunacy of this board. I haven't seen so many cuckoo bananas statements since the Michael Vick dogfighting fiasco, and it's the same sort of self-congratulatory hand-wringing.

Too many severely lost people in our land of intended greatness.

If I were one of the kids who voted for the boy to leave, my parents would have sat me down for a long talk. I know this, because they once did exactly that. There was a girl in my class who was "different" and was excluded. And one day my parents sat me down and told me, for the first and only time, "we are disappointed in you. If someone is different, and excluded because of that difference, we expect you to show the other kids that everyone deserves respect." It's a lesson I've tried to never forget.

I had the same thing happen to me with a teacher just as vindictive and nasty. Only that monster was the 8th grade Algebra teacher. Every day he would ridicule and insult me and egg the kids on to make my life hell. However, I knew that there was light at the end of the tunnel and I'd get out alive. I went to college and got a masters degree. I also applied myself to chess and became a strong correspondence chess master. Nothing gave me more pleasure than the day I went back for my mother's funeral and he thought he would shoot his mouth off at me again. I gave him the full blown roasting in public that he richly deserved. But the fact that he got away with hurting kids for so long--well that leaves me with not too much love for public education...

I think there are two things going on here. The teacher was wholly out of line,(what the hell was she thinking), and also I think that this was a disruptive kid that shouldn't have been in that classroom. I agree with the person that questions this "process of being diagnosed with autism" thing. It's the newest fad replacing ADD and I don't trust this "epidemic". Just another excuse to medicate our kids. Not I am denying the disorder exists of course. Simply questioning its sudden overwhelming frequency. That the mother actually got the police involved in this is insane. I can see complaining to school officials, but geez louise. Bottom line, fire the teacher and get the kid involved in a specialized environment for school. There is simply NO common sense anymore.

and you would see things differently.

No I would not call the police because people were mean to my daughter. I'd give them a piece of my mind and push for her to go to another school. If I got pissed enough I might even threaten to sue the school, though I doubt I would follow up on it. I certainly wouldn't call the police

of her child's rights yet under IDEA. She may not have great common sense, or she could be an undiagnosed Aspie who is high functioning, but doesn't understand how inappropriate her behavior was. I suspect the school will let her know to properly seek redress.

As for transferring to another school, that may not be practical or the best thing for a disabled child. Even within school districts, it is possible to find varying degrees of training amongst Special Services staff.

I think this could be a child that could be mainstreamed within a year or so. If he has made it to age five, then he may have good enough communocation skills to learn appropriate and nondisruptive behaviors relatively quickly.

This isn't about pushing drugs. There is a winning teaching program called Applied Behavior Analysis that can make a huge difference inhelping children with ASD, including Aspergers. The school should have recognized the he needed an aide. Hopefully the IEP will address it.

I'm a preschool teacher, this would be breaking our Code of Ethics. If I did something like this, I'd be fired on the spot! Well, not really. There would be an investigation while I was suspended with/without pay (I don't know about the pay aspect, but it's written somewhere. Not important.) If this was found to be true, then I'd be fired. I'd never get a job anywhere else, either.

This is child abuse! Our school is accredited by The National Association for the Education of Young Children.
****************************
Code of Ethics:
http://www.naeyc.org/about/positions/pseth98.asp


*Section I: Ethical responsibilities to children
Childhood is a unique and valuable stage in the life cycle. Our paramount responsibility is to provide safe, healthy, nurturing, and responsive settings for children. We are committed to support children's development, respect individual differences, help children learn to live and work cooperatively, and promote health, self-awareness, competence, self-worth, and resiliency.


*Principles
P-1.1. Above all, we shall not harm children. We shall not participate in practices that are disrespectful, degrading, dangerous, exploitative, intimidating, emotionally damaging, or physically harmful to children. This principle has precedence over all others in this Code.
*******************************

Our little children have often sat in a group saying something they like about the child sitting next to them....a circle of kindness...
I could go on and on about how we work with special needs children and their families.
My heart goes out to this little one... :cry:
This so-called teacher is a monster. Is there no justice?

peace~

What does that mean? I think this devalues and undermines the true problem. Almost implies that this would be okay if he didn't have autism.

That being said, this is very disturbing. That teacher is teaching intolerance of others at a very young age. Something needs to be done to encourage teachers to teach acceptance and not isolation.

It's not always a cut-and-dried diagnosis. My daughter has gone through myriad of medical and psychological evaluations (most ongoing) and after all these years they still cannot tell us for sure what is wrong, other than vague generalities that in effect tell us jack shit. She is borderline autistic with signs of Asberger's, but doesn't fit the criteria for them to make a definitive diagnosis one way or the other.

It sounds like this school, and in particular this teacher, just doesn't want the hassle. We are lucky in that my daughter attends a school district where they form specialized education plans for such children and work closely with them to achieve certain goals. They also do not "isolate" these children from their peers, yet they work with them at their particular speed.

It's like talking about assault v. assault leavened with bigotry ... w/the latter understood as a hate crime. Obviously, the teacher should have sensitively explored the issue, especially in dealing with a five year old (so young) in talking seriously with the parents.

Nevertheless, it IS important to point out how unacceptable this kind of ostracism of a child is, regardless of the child's behavioral track record.

Funny timing as I was doing CME on this area today, during the Monaco F1 race and Indy 500 later today. So I can only add that this type of treatment by the teacher/class, and to the child, is absolutely wrong from any perspective. Of course I'm just a shrink so what do I know?

meds has helped our son the most.

It's a hard life.

and in fact the letters CME could stand for a lot of things, including

Crisis Management Exercise
Contemporary Montessori Education
Comprehensive Monitoring Evaluation
Civics and Moral Education
plus many others

although the "behavioral" context points to 'evaluation', it actually isn't totally obvious especially to someone not hip to the particular subject matter

If he wants to go to school after this, it should be only his choice. John Dewey said, "The teacher always is the prophet of the true God and the usherer in of the true Kingdom of God."

It is certainly abuse when the child is coerced to enroll in another class or school after being kicked out. What 'good' is the message of learning when we're kicked out, and then told we must attend. That the "prophet of the true God" is stupid?

:eyes:

Scared of other people, scared of the community, scared of your neighbors. You are a victim of fear.

I admit that having an abusive teacher is reason to fear, but what you don't understand is that nearly all schoolteachers are abusive. They are all dominators and dominatrixes. Most of us have lived with that fact all our lives; to you it's a great revelation and a reason to be terrified.

At least teachers in schools get kids ready for a life where most adults hate one another and compete against each other. People who are homeschooled are raised like veal; when they finally encounter the real world they won't have any defense mechanisms.

For what it's worth, I am a former public school teacher myself, so obviously I don't agree that "nearly all teachers are abusive." My mother was also a teacher and she is an amazingly perceptive and caring individual... there are lots and lots and lots of intelligent gifted teachers and professional educators in the public school system. I am a huge proponent of a strong system of free, high quality public education. It is a necessity and most kids best option for obtaining an adequate education.

That said I do not think institutionalized education is the very best option for raising children to become emotionally healthy and independent thinking adults. There is too much group think, too much emphasis on social conformity, not enough individual attention, not enough flexibility. When I visit the public schools in my area, I just feel an overwhelming sadness for all of the kids that are warehoused in these huge buildings, walking in lines down echoing halls. In my opinion, their lives could be so much richer, so much more demanding and exciting, their potentials could be so much more closely realized. Not to demonize the public school system... for the most part the folks there are doing the best job that is possible considering the constraints they must operate under.

I'm not afraid... I just want better for my kids:)

Your world is an ugly place my friend.

But deep down I know I can't, and I don't want to shortchange my two youngest children further (in addition to my daughter whom I reference upthread, I also have a son who is in the process of going through similar behavioral issues).

My hat is off to those parents who do homeschool their children.

And, unfortunately, I'm concluding that some (not all, mind you, just a **very** few) here are from the "swift-kick-in-the-seat-of-the-pants" school of behavioral psychology. A word to them: Thank you for making our jobs as parents of "difficult" children that much harder -- we truly and deeply appreciate your compassion and understanding. Thanks for making us feel even more isolated, and in some cases, more guilt ridden. Thank you profusely.

Conversely, thank you to those who have shown empathy. It makes me realize that I'm not alone, as parents of such children often feel they are.

Have you ever known or dated a teacher? Then you know. If you ARE a teacher, you're an unreliable witness; your own vision is skewed, and you think that burning a kid with a cigarette is SOP.

If you haven't actually known teachers, but have this Mary Sunshine attitude that too many people have here, I suggest you look some of them up when they're off duty. You can often find them in liquor stores after school. Their job - no, their JOY - is abusing, humiliating and destroying students. The ones that don't get destroyed by them, or by the equally vicious students, go on to live useful lives. The others - well, a lot of people voted for Bush because teachers taught them it is their destiny to be abused.

And homeschooling simply means that kids don't understand the world is brutal, and they get it full force with no defenses when Mommy and Daddy "graduate" them. I have no figures, but I suspect a lot of kids who are homeschooled get killed by kids who get real educations.

You are completely off base. About teachers AND homeschooling.

In my previous teacher training, we took a class solely on learning how to burn kids in the right spot with cigarettes.

(I am not a teacher now, as I've moved onto a different career path involving non-profits and charitable giving. But your view of teachers is so skewed it's absolutely laughable.)


Sometimes you can also find teachers enjoying a cocktail in a ::::GASP::::: BAR after school hours, too!

ROTFLMAO!! I know MANY homeschooled kids and they are just fine, thank you - the majority of them college educated, married and doing very well. You post is very strange - I think I'll pass on abusive teachers who teach to your "real world".

Your experience with teachers has led you to believe that "nearly all schoolteachers are abusive," which must have been incredibly painful for you, especially since little children are so vulnerable and the expectations that students should toe the line outweigh any ability to protest that you may have mustered up.

So I'm not denying your reality and experiences when I say, on behalf of my kids' fantastic and dedicated teachers, that many (in my experience, almost all) teachers care deeply about their students, and work hard at an often thankless job in schools where kids would rather talk about YouTube or Playstation games than pay attention in class... yet the teachers do their best to instruct and guide their students. My son is a darling person but a lackadaisical student, and time after time his teachers have gone out of their way, and spent what little free time they have, to help him do what he is capable of instead of what he would prefer to do. I admire good teachers TREMENDOUSLY. They are heroes to me.

That's a first here, I believe.

I hated ALL public schools so much because of the abuse I went through, yet I realize what's the alternative? Vouchers would be wonderful in a world where there really is competition, but even if I had had a voucher, there was nowhere else to take that school voucher for an education when I was a kid. there was no competition because the Catholic schools stopped at 8th grade! so what good would a voucher do when you had a single school in the market and the teacher who relentlessly tortured me ran the Teacher union? Me? I just took the abuse knowing that it wasn't going to go on forever. Yes, we sadly DO live in a society that follows St Ayn (as in mine) Rand and pushes you to stab everyone in the back to get ahead and whoever gets the most toys in the end wins. It's not the more ethical nation my Grandma told me about during the Depression.

Kindly refrain from posting when you have no idea what you're talking about.

we had an Instructor who was a bit different. All the boys were sent to him for corporal punishment. It was public paddling. A 5th grader punished and crying in front of a bunch of 3rd graders. Nice.

The kids in his own class did not escape degradation and humiliation either.

One day, somebody must have figured out there was something wrong with the guy. He was gone and replaced by a young woman. A total sweetheart she was. We finished the year in good order.

I suspect the are a lot of instances that fly below the radar of child abuse. These people get away with this sort of crap for years.

Being a teacher, especially of young children requires a special talent, mostly unrewarded, at least financially.

I wasn't there, so I hesitate to judge anything, but I do have some insight.

A friend, who has taught Kindergarten for 23 years, in a recent year, had a "disruptive" child in her class. My friend went home with bruises from this kindergarten aged child several times. "Something was being done" all year. The entire school year passed with the entire class walking on eggshells attempting to avoid setting off the rages bottled up inside a troubled child. Five year olds having to learn to protect themselves from the random violence and rage of one of their classmates.

Every child in a class room has an effect on the others. Often, it's mostly neutral, sometimes very positive. And sometimes, it's horribly negative. Children do exist that can not be taught in a "normal" class room without negatively impacting all the other children. The problem is what to do about it and just which children fall on the other side of an imaginary line. How much disruption (or even danger) is too much to expect a class of grade school children to cope with? How long should they have to wait before action is taken?

There are needs of the many and needs of the few. The balances for weighing them are few and slow to react. The possibility exists that a classroom could be terrorized by a single child from September to May. The possibility exists that a single child wasn't participating in group activities. Where in that spectrum did this class fall? None of us know. There was definitely a failure here, but was it that of a school system that failed to act to protect a child, or that of a school system that failed to act to protect an entire class of children?

BUT what this teacher did was wrong.

Great idea.... embarrass the autistic kid publicly in front of his peers.

:grr:

but it also is odd that the mother has been trying to get a diagnosis since Feb. Has she missed an appointment or two? It usually doesn't take that long, at least not in my area.

i wonder what the WHOLE story is behind this

The teachers name is Wendy Portillo. Here are the email addresses to complain to the school board members Kathryn Hensley at HensleyK@stlucie.k12.fl.us,Troy Ingersoll at IngersollT@stlucie.k12.fl.us, Dr. Judi Miller at MillerJ@stlucie.k12.fl.us, Dr. John Carvelli at CarvelliJ@stlucie.k12.fl.us, Carol Hinson at HilsonC@stlucie.k12.fl.us and superintendent Michael Lannon at LannonM@stlucie.k12.fl.us . They will get sick of emails and fire her.


David

are going to make any difference in this case.

But hey, knock yourself out.

although, to be honest, this isn't something I (not knowing more) am apt to pursue through these channels.

what would make the most sense (if desirable) is contacting press, though that option makes me queasy

I just wanted to provide points of contact for those who wished to do so. I guess its a lot easier to just sit here and bitch though.

David

There are so many things you don't know. Like why didn't Mom get help for her child until February of his kindergarten year? Based on what this story tells us and what I know about kids with disabilities, I could rationalize encouraging DUers to flood the child protective services dept in Florida with demands that this mother be investigated for child neglect.

Unless we know the WHOLE story it is silly to do anything.

Regardless of what the mother did the teachers behavior is worth firing her over. To embarrass the student in front of the class isn't appropriate under any circumstances.

David

But I don't think we have enough information to say the teacher needs to be fired. Remember, we have only heard from Mom.

A few years ago a parent here was on the 6:00 news saying her child was suspended for finding a toy gun at school. My friend teaches at this school and they were flooded with phone calls and emails demanding the principal be fired. A child had done the right thing and was being unfairly penalized!!

Here is what REALLY happened: the kid found the gun on the ground at the bus stop (and later admitted he didn't know if it was real or not - and they did show the gun on TV and it did look real). He put it in his back pack and once he got on the bus, he pulled it out and started pointing it at the other kids, threatening to shoot them. The bus driver stopped the bus and asked the kid to give her the gun and he refused. So the bus driver called the school and the principal drove to where the bus had stopped. She also called the police. (At this point no one knew whether it was a real gun or not.) The kid finally turned the gun over to the principal and she suspended him for 10 days.

Under state law, the principal could have (and in my opinion, should have) expelled the kid for the rest of the school year. She could have pressed charges against him but did not. And she was flooded with calls from the parents of the other kids on the bus who were mad that he was ONLY suspended. Many of those parents also called the mother of the child with the gun and expressed their concerns to her.

So Mom called the media and told them her son had been suspended for finding a toy gun and turning it in to the principal.

I know lots of stories just like this one. You would be amazed by how often parents twist the story to make their child look like an angel and the school look like monsters. Happens way more often than most people realize.

14 to 2 vote, the students were able to say what they didn't like about the autistic child. If these allegations are true then she need's to be fired. There is absolutely no way to justify that behavior if it happened. If they aren't true then the school spokesperson needs to come out any offer a different account.


David

I thought I made that clear in another post. Talking about this case is a violation of this child's privacy rights under federal law. That is what makes stories like this so silly - we only hear the parent's version, and never the school's.

Saying that the allegations are untrue is in no way a violations of the child's privacy rights. As I said we get the schools version all the time here. Last year a principal was accused of having a relationship with a 17 yo student and both sides were in the paper for months.

David

And when a parent is exaggerating, they are less likely to give permission.

Also if a case goes to court, it is public information.

Otherwise, privacy laws apply. And many districts (mine is one) have a policy not to discuss cases like this with the media, even with parental permission.

They are decided by the school board and the prosecutors don't prosecute. I don't think refuting the allegations without getting into specifics is a violation of the child's privacy under federal law.

david

you can't possibly know the whole story.

Therein lies my point. :hi:

And again I don't presume to know the full story it is the school boards responsibility to get that.

David

what the fuck is wrong with people, this is the most outrageous EVIL piece of shit thing to do to a kid I ever fucking heard of,.. get a god damned clue!

There is no doubt whatsoever that the basic actions took place. no one is making this up.

:rofl:

Just stumbled over it here: http://www.bullypolice.org/fl_law.html

I'm getting the impression that the "teacher" is toast should the parents decide to make a court issue out of this whole thing at least. That law certainly beats the hell out of a lot of other ones I've seen, anyway; where I went to high school in the nineties a student who got sucker-punched could be suspended for it. ;P

--under any circumstances,
--in any situation.

The students do not dictate who
remains in the class.

This "teacher" needs to have disciplinary action
taken in response to her inhumane and cruel actions.

IMHO, she should not be teaching.

how dare she do that to a little kid

and I hope those kids get a good lecture about how WRONG they were to talk crap about him as well

http://www.fashion.ie/aggregator/gossip/77534-headline-week-weak

Adam Race, 13, and his family did not go to mass at Bertha's Church of St. Joseph Sunday morning like they usually do. The Todd County Sheriff told Adam's mom if she did take him to St. Joseph's, she would be arrested. St. Joseph's has filed a temporary restraining order against Adam...out of "a growing concern for the safety of parishioners".

Adam is severely autistic. He is home-schooled, and has attended St. Joseph's his whole life. He is also more than six feet tall and weighs more than 235 pounds. In court documents, Father Walz said Adam's growing size makes it harder for his parents to manage his behavior during mass. Father Walz said Adam struck a child, bolts unexpectedly from church nearly knocking people down...

Carol Race said those allegations are either exaggerated or false...

:(
rocknation

It seems most stories that I hear lately which seem to be beyond the pale, are coming from Florida.

This makes one more reason to never visit that terrible place. My brother lived there, and he told me not to bother.

What that teacher did is atrocious. Shame on her, and may the universe be swift and just in repaying her for this disgusting act.

The children are somewhat forgivable, but their parents aren't for not teaching them to be more like the 2 decent children in the room.

This makes me sick.

teachers who doesn't know what the hell she is doing and is unqualified to be in a classroom.

For millions.

Go ahead and sue me. I have been secretly stashing away money (lots of which I have stolen out of kids' lunch boxes!) and I am a millionaire many times over after all these years!!

:sarcasm:

If you are going after more than that you have to go after the county.

David

Forget the criminal charges. Sue them!

I don't understand how this could happen.

is sinking under.

It is likely that he is disruptive (if one CAN disrupt 5 year olds), 'mainstreaming' is difficult for everyone but I feel sympathy for the kid, and for the class.

For the teacher I can feel only contempt.

She has found some kids her own age to play with ... sheesh ...

WTF is that? Florida...

She was a bitch, and I was the kid with cooties. She said something to me, and I told her it really didn't matter because no one liked me, including her, anyways.

She took a vote-two kids raised their hands, one of them was the boy with ADHD and one was the tough girl.

(Allegedly - I'm watching Kathy Griffin.)
I heard her tell somebody on Good Morning Somewhere this morning that al-Qaeda approves of what the teacher did.

i can't believe this crap

main action site:
http://autisticnation.typepad.com/thinking_in_metaphors/2008/05/wendy-portillos.html

photo:

http://manormaniac.blogspot.com/2008/05/wendy-portillo-scum-of-earth.html

.....not toward stupidity

A five-year-old? That shit's going to stay with him forever. What a horrible experience for him and for the other children that were manipulated into participating in the abuse.