Trouble brewing in N.Y. for Clinton

Source: LA Times

Black leaders say that if Hillary Rodham Clinton returns as senator, she'll need to heal racial wounds her campaign has inflicted.

Even as she continues her longshot presidential bid, Hillary Rodham Clinton faces a political rift in New York, where black leaders say her standing has dropped due to racially charged comments by her and her husband during the campaign.

African American elected officials and clerics based in New York City say Clinton will need to defuse resentment over the campaign's racial overtones if she returns to New York as U.S. senator.

State Sen. Bill Perkins, who represents Harlem, said constituents recently phoned him because they wanted to demonstrate outside Bill Clinton's Harlem office against comments by the former president.

Michael Benjamin, a state assemblyman who represents parts of the Bronx, said his wife removed a photograph of Bill Clinton from her office wall -- an expression of the misgivings that some black New Yorkers feel.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-clintonblacks25-2008may25,0,2206514.story

The war vote was bad enough, but this has just been apalling.

Just curious

The difference is, Kerry hasn't done all the other stuff Clinton has. Compare their records, and Kerry's is a lot better. Not to mention the fact that Kerry isn't my senator, so whether or not to support a primary challenger for him isn't my call.

she has done herself a great deal of harm --
I was never over the moon about HRC, but I thought she had some value ---
now I question everything about her and think we'd be better off with her out of office.

It is sad that her behavior has weakened our chances of electing a president...and may even cost us a Democratic Senator from New York.

Hopefully another Democrat can challenge her if it looks like she is in trouble defending in NY.

Because you are so afraid of what you are.

How easily people are manipulated and mislead. The facts are there for all to see: Obama used race to divide. Clinton did NOTHING racist.

NGU.

I don't get it at all.

NGU.

No?

NGU.

Why don't you answer the question. You said that Obama used race to divide the party. I want to see proof of his statements to back that up.

Either that or you mean simply by virtue of being BLACK he divided the party.

Which is it?

I believe that the Clintons used race for their own political gain.

Sorry for the confusion.

NGU.

to divide up in post #2, not ClassWarrior.

Not that Evergreen Emerald is likely to answer your question.

a few Obama surrogate racists tried to stir up the community and told their people how to interpret it. Doesn't mean jack shit about how people truly feel.

Your time line is off.

Illinois Congressman, second district.

happens to be a black man of mixed ancestry who dared to challenge the heiress apparent. That's how he used race to divide Hillary's 100% vote entitlement. :sarcasm:

See, most voters don't care what color someone is, if they are qualified.
Half or more of the voters don't see Obama as qualified, and those who see that as racism are the same ones who, when they aren't hired for a posted position, scream, "It's because I'm black." Maybe thay should look at other reasons. Maybe it's just plain that you didn't have the required skills.
Stop whining.

Look closely at the delegate and you will find that more democratic voters have found Obama qualified than they do Clinton. Look at the national polls and you see that voters find Obama more qualified than both McSame and Clinton.

Which is what I replied to. That post said that Obama was using race as an issue, but the poster never elaborated on what Obama was doing along those lines. With good reason becasue it's an empty suit. 'Just sayin' it's so don't make it so!' The only race issue in this campaign has been with Obama's opponents, both DINO-saurs and GOP -- the one's who still subscribe to the notion that "America isn't ready for a black President". Go back and reserach the WV and KY exit polls if you need proof. I believe as you (apparently do) that color doesn't matter, it's all about qualifications. Just don't go propping up someone's empty vacuous argument, if and when someone decides to counter it.

I have been saying all along that Hillary was always going to be rammed down our throat as the Dem nominee. It seems that myself and many millions more who supported Edwards/Obama/Kucinich...whomever, decided we didn't want that. The vitriol coming from the "Hillary at any cost" crowd never seemed to realize she was not getting the nomination because too many of us knew her negatives were higher than her positives. I think she could be President. Having the capabilities, is what I mean. But she would never win the general. Not with the mighty hate machine assembled against her. What people don't realize is that Obama hasn't done any of the 8 years worth of "scandals" that will be thrown at her for the general. The R's would have the entire electorate making it a referendum on Hill and Bill's scandals of the nineties. With Barack or any of the other D's, the general will be a referendum on Bush/McSame, as it should be. So Hillary supporters, please stand down gracefully. She makes an excellent Senator for New York State. BTW, if events transpire so that she can mount a run in 2012, you can bank on me voting for the Democratic alternative. Simple as that. She doesn't stand on her own. Bill has carried her three fourths of the way to the summit. I want someone who got there on their own.

:thumbsup:

:sarcasm: (for the humor-impaired).

Just like the spoiled sixty year old white women who are going to punish Obama because they backed a loser?

Just look at this board, so full of hate. Democrats want to attack women. Women respond by threatening to vote for a republican. Obama uses race to divide and AA back him by calling her a racist.

All perspective is lost. Lies and distortions are the norm. Idiocy is the result.

NGU.

If you play her speeches backwards they say: "don't vote for Obama."

:eyes:

NGU.

of people who think exactly alike and vote exactly alike. Nice. Stifle a different opinion by suggesting that I am "ridiculing" someone.

The old standby used again to shut up a Clinton supporter.

...a legitimate concern among our brothers and sisters? :shrug:

NGU.

BS it is an Obama talking point. It is nothing but a bunch of BS designed to take down a progressive senator who has worked her career on civil rights and progressive causes.

The concern is not legitimate. When Obama shouted "Racism!" from the rooftops, he used race to divide, knowing there was nothing to the shouts but political distortions and lies.

NGU.

what is NGU?

She is anything but PROGRESSIVE. She is the matriarch of the Democratic Leadership Council; she is NOT progressive. Where are you getting that from?

what you read from the vitriolic hatred for her. It has tainted your view, and reality is not DU's friend.
As you will see, she is a progressive Senator who has worked hard for progressive causes. I know you want to hate her, and make her everything you despise so you can justify your hate. But, in reality she is quite a liberal fighter.



Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can...

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fougt unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air
Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands
Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste
Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11
Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

Hillary Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House years:

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

"...Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries..."

More:
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israe...
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfu...


The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
easures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

HILLARY'S EXPERIENCE ON THE WORLD STAGE:

Her historic speech at the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995 not only galvanized women around the world, it helped spawn a movement that led to advances politically, legally, economically, and socially for women in many countries over the next decade. Among other initiatives, she spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts to combat the global crisis of human trafficking. She persuaded the First Ladies of the Americas to use their collective power to eradicate measles and improve girls' education throughout the western Hemisphere. And she is widely credited with helping women in Kuwait finally win the right to vote.

As First Lady and now as a two-term senator who represents the most ethnically diverse state in the nation and who sits on the Armed Services Committee, Hillary Clinton has become a fixture on international issues over the past 15 years. She has traveled to more than 80 countries, going from barrios to rural villages to meetings with heads of state. She has consulted with dozens of world leaders - Nelson Mandela, King Abdullah, Tony Blair among them -- on matters as diverse as America and NATO's roles in Kosovo, eradicating poverty in the Third World, and the plight of women living under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Today, she is one of the most influential voices in the world on human rights, democracy, and the promotion of a "new internationalism" in foreign affairs that calls for a balanced use of military force, diplomacy, and social development to strengthen American interests and security globally.

While American First Ladies historically have made great (and often overlooked) contributions to our nation, Hillary Clinton's wide-ranging experience on international issues as First Lady is unprecedented. Indeed, she is the only First Lady to have delivered foreign policy addresses at major gatherings of the United Nations, the World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the World Economic Forum.

deliberate blindness like that expressed in your post.

as you continue to call a progressive distinguished Senator horrible ugly names.

Starts off with NARAL who endorses Obama.

Interesting find Obama now polls better in NY than Clinton

I am impressed.:wow:

That shit trumps everything you posted.

anything BUT progressive:

Voted AGAINST the Levin-Reed Amendment that would have given the UN weapons inspectors, like Scott Ritter and Hans Blix, MORE time to search for WMD's. The Levin Amendment would have sought support from the UN for multilateral action. SHE VOTED AGAINST THAT AMENDMENT!!

No one talks about Levin-Reed.

She voted FOR the Kyl-LIEberman Amendment and supports one of her closest friends--Joe LIEberman, A.K.A. "Traitor Joe"--on most of his hawkish ideas.

She voted FOR the Patriot Act.

She voted FOR the Flag Amendment.

And she supported her husband's NAFTA efforts, as well as his Welfare Reform package and his Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). Don't know why Hillary enablers conveniently forget about these important measures and this very important aspect of her voting record.

Hillary Clinton is NOT progressive. As matter of fact, neither is Obama, but he is more progressive and less DLC than she!! In fact, Harold Ford, Jr. (my second cousin) who is the head of the DLC courted Obama when he entered the Senate, trying to convince him to join the DLC. He declined!!!

Nothing more than a marketing blurb that Equates "Support" instead of concrete actions.

In reality, this list is nothing more than marketing points that does little to alleviate the trouble our country is in.

Now, if you included the ongoing, Peter Paul vs Clinton trial in 2000 to 2008, or Rose Law Firm connections with ADFA, then maybe we wouldn't blow this off for the pile is BS it really is.

Hillary hires people who are advocating even more disastrous free trade agreements. And of course, she is also married to such a person.

If you support free trade, you do NOT support working men and women regardless of how much pander to unions. She's shaking their hands with one claw and stabbing them with the other.

How is she taking on the corporatist elements of the Democratic Party to fix how they are now beholden to corporate lobbyist dollars?




Answer:

She IS one of those corporatist elements! And that by itself more than any of that window dressing you quote makes her NOT progressive. Ultimately it is getting the power back to the people that needs to happen and REAL progressive politicians are needed for that, NOT the DLC!

Senator Clinton lied

Senator Clinton race-baited

Senator Clinton played the victim

Senator Clinton cynically used her gender as a political weapon

Senator Clinton praised the Republican candidate at the expense of her Democratic rival

Senator Clinton openly hinted at the death of her Democratic rival

Senator Clinton wasted tens of millions of dollars

Senator Clinton ran a terrible campaign


and most importantly

Senator Clinton LOST.

Wow, way out there!

Just joking!

Thanks for the list. I read it in it's entirety.
Just so you know, you have a lot of duplicate paragraphs.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

That's no asset - that's a liability.

... which is why I supported Edwards and others earlier on! But he's not clearly pro-DLC and corporate influence over our party like Hillary is!

Voting for her is losing right from the start...

With Obama, I at lest have "hope" that he might do things right later...

I'm encouraged that he gets a lot of his campaign money from small donors and not lobbyists, which gives him far more potential to work independently than Hillary is.

What got me really starting to think that beneath the covers he wants to do the right thing was his speech on NAFTA in Wisconsin. That and other speeches since then give me more clues that when pushed, he will do the right thing later.

And after Edwards obviously got muscled out earlier, I'm starting to think that within this current system we have, perhaps someone like Obama NEEDS to be nebulous now to get elected, and then once in office he can start taking on these special interests with them less able to fight back like they might be more able to now.

Now long term, I think candidates being nebulous about their positions still sucks, but perhaps once he gets in, we can drive other Democrats and him to change the system to put in place things like public campaign financing and instant runoff voting so that other candidates in the future can be far more honest to vocalize what they want to do for the people in campaigns without fearing destructive retribution that control campaign finances then. That's what I'd like to see later. With Obama, I think we have a shot at that happening!

let alone "racism." I'd like a link to the video of the Rooftop Address, please.

You've done exactly the same thing by describing women as a block of voters thus implying they "think exactly alike and vote exactly alike".

NGU.

NGU mean?

What does that mean?

Not Hillary because she was a woman. It is simply preposterous to lump everyone into a microscopic subset of offenders and blame gender as an issue. I have never seen Obama use race or gender as an issue. Could you please provide credible references to this?

You were asked a simple question, when did Obama use race to divide. You did not answer. Fast forward a few posts and you repeat the exact same thing without giving any examples.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I mean yes, the board has been very hateful and your posts aren't always the nicest either. I'm just sayin.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Funny.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Of course, Hillary's minion Geraldine said Obama only succeeded as much as he has because he was lucky to be born black. Not that the Hillary campaign has thrown the race card in. As far as I know.

"... worki... hardworking americans, white americans," Emphasis transcribed as heard.

they know Southern Strategy pandering when they see it.

You remind me of the cheating husband who says,

"Who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes"

had nothing to do with race. We all know that.

Sneering while dismissing Senator Obama as a Jesse Jackson rerun had nothing to do with race. We all know that.

And hanging around just in case the winner is assassinated has nothing to do with race. We all know that too.

Did anyone with a brain NOT see this coming? The Clintons have thrown one of their most reliable demographic groups under the bus to become the champions of those "hard working Americans, WHITE Americans." It has absolutely nothing to do with race. We all know that.

Twist the truth all you want, the Clintons and their surrogates have been despicable with their use of BOTH the race and gender card. You Hillary enablers can scream all you want. For all the talk about Obama not winning "hard-working WHITE" voters (who coincidentally did not vote for her husband, Gore or Kerry in the GE), the bottom line is that NO DEMOCRAT can win without the black vote. PERIOD!

Both of the Clintons have fought for civil rights for minorities including women and AA. Obama came along and used race to divide: "our time is now" "Clinton is a racist"

Obama divided in order to conquer.

I'd say, in typical Hillary Herd fashion, d) all of the above

you don't know?

our=Americans.

Obama identifies as an American.

know what's really going on because we don't agree with you and the person you support.

Hillary had the Black vote going in...she lost it...there is a reason whether you want to believe it or not.

Clinton has worked for civil rights and causes that affect AA her life. She is not racist. And I am appalled that it is ok with anyone that Obama used lies about "Racism!" to win.

It is worse than Willie Horton tactics.

And the "you" to whom I refer is all Obama supporters. Don't try to insinuate that I am a racist too.

But how embarrassing to be so easily orchestrated.

Nonetheless, let's congratulate the Obama team for brilliant manipulation. People actually believe their hands are clean in this. Bravo!

We have repeatedly heard Hillary refer to the "Boys' Club" picking on her during this campaign. Following her Iowa loss, she even cried to gain voter sympathy. With Hillary, it is all about "her", her aspirations, her ambition, her desire to become the first woman president. She voted with Republicans (on the Iraq War, on the Bankruptcy Bill, on continued Iraq War funding, etc.) when doing so seemed advantageous for her, not for American citizens.

Obama, on the other hand, has never pulled the "race card" and has been a class-act during the campaign, despite considerable provocation to do otherwise.

:sarcasm:

While Al might not be "Evergreen", he's a "gem' in the black community.

"State Sen. Bill Perkins, who represents Harlem, said constituents recently phoned him because they wanted to demonstrate outside Bill Clinton's Harlem office against comments by the former president."

Ms.Ferraro..

don't you get tired of it, Sound just like a Bush supporter

here is an article for you on the race baiter

"What was once coded is now explicit. Clinton openly talks about her appeal among “working, hard working, white voters.” The implication here is that blacks are lazy, shiftless and on the welfare dole and that perhaps only half of their votes should count. But shouldn’t someone remind her that her husband dismantled welfare? Perhaps her former mentor Marian Wright Edelman should make the call."

"Coming from a Wellesley grad who just loaned her own campaign nearly $12 million, Hillary’s attempts to peg Obama as an elitist requires a degree of chutzpah that might make Alan Dershowitz tingle with envy. But when the Clintons tag Obama as an elitist, they don’t mean primarily that he is rich (which he is) but that he’s an “uppity nigger.”

snip//

"For the dull-witted, Clinton’s surrogates are sent out spell it out in capital letters. Obama used cocaine (Bob Johnson). Obama’s middle name is “Hussein” (Bob Kerrey). Obama is a master of “shuck and jive” (Andrew Cuomo). Obama is another Jesse Jackson (Bill Clinton). Obama’s story is a fairy tale (ditto). And, most recently, Geraldine Ferraro told the Los Angeles Times that Obama is a “sexist” (most black men are, right?) and she won’t vote for him if he is the nominee."

"To sum up: Obama is a drug abuser, a huckster, a secret Muslim, a con artist and a misogynist. And that’s without dragging Jeremiah Wright into the scenario."

http://counterpunch.org/stclair05212008.html

I'm not sure which of the campaign spokespersons first used that one.

You allude to the elitist Wellesley College. I've posted elsewhere that Hillary, using that same magic which produces cork-screwing planes and sniper bullets, somehow mysteriously went directly from Girl Scouts to Wellesley. No mention of her elitist upbringing on Chicago's wealthy North Shore. No mention of her attendance at one of the most prestigious high schools in the country.

Unlike the working folk in Chicago, she is proud that she spent her summers vacationing on the famous Dunes of Indiana (Chicago Mayor Daley and others have homes there). But those were only the summer weeks when she wasn't vacationing at granddad's hand-did lodge in Pennsylvania.

In short, this girl had a silver spoon in her mouth from Day One. As an adult, she has spent the majority of her life living rent-free in government-owned mansions. All these "hard working Americans, WHITE Americans" really got sold a bill of goods.

Don't take the bait.

only bitter angry people couldn't see the manipulation here...

...being from another culture, missed entirely. She said in the black community, Hilly's longtime refrain of "Who would you hire?" was widely interpreted as playing off the (often subconscious) white fear of hiring a black person.

NGU.

Most of the callers and the hosts are VERY upset about the recent assassination comments. Many people call in regretting voting for Bill Clinton after all of this. Of course Obama is our senator and over the years he's done lots of interviews on that station as he has on the white talk radio station WGN. (Yeah in Chicago it still goes like that.)

Please lets not mention WLS. :puke:

I mean, Martin Luther King has a holiday named after him. That ain't so bad.

:sarcasm:

keep it up...I smell fire...."backfire" ,that is!

Her senate seat is history.

Not someone who will base their every decision on how it will effect future races. As recently as 3 months ago, I had a good amount of respect for Hillary. Not anymore. It disgusts me beyond belief how she'd glady reduce Obama's chances of winning Florida (and hence the whole GE) just so she can revel in support which was never really her's to begin with. She's a liar and a hypocrite and I want nothing to do with her.

heck, Arkansas? Illinois (nope that won't work).

Professor (Douglas) Brinkley said on Friday that she's done serious harm to her political career with the assassination comments. I concur...

NYer here, and I'll be looking to get rid of her.

I can see no way she will ever redeem herself in my eyes, or the eyes of many in NY.

This from NYer's. I live in Ca but would do the same if she were the choice out here. But hey she did win Ma maybe the weather is better out there for her. I can see the Vultures now.

As a New Yorker, I voted and campaigned for her opponent way back in 2005. It was apparent then she was a DINO then when she voted for the Iraq War.

that the assumption is made that if you are a Democrat (white, black or polka-dotted) in New York State you automatically think Senator Clinton has done a great job as Senator. And being a relic from the 1960's and an equal opportunity cynic --- I'm not so thrilled about Obama either.

I was born in 1970, and never really knew the Kennedys except for pieces of speeches and policy saved for posterity.

They look like three young brothers here, and I think about how much LIFE laid before these men. And two of these boys have never changed from that picture, they are eternally seen as their potential. How very sad for us as a people to have been denied the country and world we could have if we had let the progressive idealism really get a chance to create, or express it self.

Maybe that's one of the things that makes me scared to hear anything about RFK's demise at this juncture.
What's at stake is a paradigm shift that hangs in the balance. If we stay on target (no pun intended)with the same way of thinking - creating polarity in the classes, races, nations...we can never tackle the issues we face as a species.Obama may not be my first choice, but he HAS taken the high road, on Many occasions. That is the thinking that creates bridges acros these divides - not hate and cynicism.

And, I don't want to project hate at Hillary for her comments...just consider the source and stay focused on the real issue at hand.
And, I fear that the voice of the progressive is in danger of being muffled under a pillow...so we need to be vigilant.

Speak up, stay posiive and support those who know it isn't about THEM - but the People. If we know what happened to the Kennedys, and MLK, can we keep history from repeating itself? It takes being loud, and standing up and pointing out injustice to All types.

Lovely post. And, hey, we even chose the same avatar. Long lost twins? :pals:

and we should all try to keep that in mind.:toast:

as just a stepping stone to her presidential race.

She will of course give up her senate seat in order to run, and the Hillary Herd will marvel at her bravery

Probably not, so Hillary takes senate as a "Stepping Stone" and as a way to keep contact with her Corporate buds.

Don't forget, Hillary is DLC spawn, and that alone make her Taint index skyrocket

Bill chose Harlem for his office before he was even out of the White House and now he's racist?

I am so tired of the Obama surrogates' racist bullshit.

Over the course of this campaign Hillary and Bill have destroyed that relationship.

and regardless of the consequences. Their attitude was we can't have this white boy being close to African Americans. It screws up our entire strategy.

It's not Obama's fault that she downplayed the importance of MLK when boosting that of LBJ

we're not all idiots that buy that shit and can't see through it for the racist shit it is that Obama uses. How fucked up is that?

They let their previous popularity convince them that they could do no wrong by black voters. Over the course of this campaign that assumption has been proven wrong many times.

That's all part of Obama's Pity Strategy. The Clintons did nothing wrong.

You don't see angry white people in IL threatening his senate seat, do you? Obama gets along with whites and blacks.

ad nauseum

See what letting the hicks vote has done?

I'd have expected better of you.

in this country, spend a little time in the country. They don't call the Midwest "flyover country" for nothing. No doubt, rural citizens in West Virginia and Kentucky know the feeling.

Like I said. I'd have expected better from you.

Was it when he boasted of his support amongst the hard working non-whites? Was it when he expressed how important it was that he stay in the election lest Hillary get assassinated? Was it when he agreed to the terms regarding Michigan and Florida and then decided to 'change his mind'? Please tell me what these "Obama racists" did to fuck things up? And while you're at it, please tell me what Hillary would need to do in order for her to lose your support. I'm just curious to see if it's any more or less than eating a baby on live television.

I've heard Bill Clinton called "the first black president" more than once. Guess that's all over and done with now, huh?

second choice for his offices.

Remember, he tried to secure outrageously expensive digs in midtown Manhattan first.

and Charlie Rangel arranged the deal in Harlem. Bill decided that it was a great idea because it was.

*was*

It's a direct demonstration of the Clintons' committment to African Americans. WTF has Obama done? Not a damn thing except divide AA's for his own political gain and selfishness.

that sees everything the Clintons have done as generous and everything Obama has done as self-serving.

no point in discussing with you. :hi:

since there's no room for reason with you Obama surrogates.

you strike me as a reasonable person. :eyes:

creates the illusion she said something wrong and people follow blindly. It's the faux outrage, vapors and fainting that gives the spin away.

and there's nothing to discuss with us, then why bother?

we are all stupid, can't think for ourselves, are just swept up in Obamamania and it's clear you think very little of us.

so why talk to us at all? you think you're going to convince us while you basically call us stupid cultists?

i mean what the hell purpose are you serving by being here?

He has a right to be here. We have a right to prefer Clinton, along with about half the Democrats in this country. We also have a right to defend Clinton. It is one thing for Obama supporters to want to defeat her. But the number of them who want to destroy her is ridiculous. She is a good Democrat. She is a hard working Democrat who has done a good job in the Senate. Trying to take that away from her diminishes you, and diminishes our party. We need her in that seat.

I have never expressed any hate toward Obama. I do not feel any hate toward him. The destroy and annihilate message from the Obama supporters is nasty. The hate is coming from your side. Wake up, before we have nothing left.

She may be a good Democrat, but she ran a very shitty campaign. Not only that, but she's demonstrated that it's far more important in her mind to win in 2008 or 2012 than getting these fucking fascists out of office. She cares more for herself than for her party or country, that's a fact. We don't need her in her senate seat, we need a democrat in that seat. If a decent one runs against her and wins, I wouldn't be upset at all.

Please tell me. Just when is a good time for Hillary to bow out? Are there any terms or conditions she'd agree to?

Well, I'll be damned.

of course you have a right to be here and express your opinions.

i asked why you *want* to be here if you are constantly trying to convince people whom you don't respect enough to make a thoughtful decision to listen to you and come to agree with you.

i mean, what's the point?

and if all the Clinton supporters were doing was defending Clinton, I say, more power to you, it's the savaging of Barack Obama, mostly without basis, that is driving me crazy.

You're completely wrong about her being a good Dem, unless you think Dems should be undeniable liars.

I do not "HATE" Obama, but I do prefer the Clinton direct approach.

because I was here long before you knew about this place.

okay, whatever. i didn't know there was a huge difference in joining DU between 2001 and 2003.

The Gentrification of Harlem.
Pretty soon, most black people won't be able to afford to live there.

...as a Community Organizer in Chicago.

And now that I think about it, what did the Clintons ever do for the AA community?
*Welfare Reform
*Union Busting Free Trade
*Shipping millions of jobs overseas
*deregulating Banking & Lending (30%+ Interest rates now legal)

there's thousands of them around. What makes Obama different was he was taking money from Rezko at the same time making Obama a bought and paid for community organizer.

NT!

buahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Me too Gman, me too.

in Manhatten and took a raft of shit for the expense and exclusivity of that choice.

I'm so tired of Hilly surrogates thinking they can get away with shameful blatant lies.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990DE1DF1F31F930A25751C0A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

insert rolling eyes here

Crap, shit, bullshit, BS... Disgusting.

NGU.

i looked it up, and the only thing that they had was Nongonococcal Urethritis. (??)

I think I'm going to start telling people it means Nongonococcal Urethritis.

:rofl:

Seriously, NGU = Never Give Up, my personal motto since 11/03/04. Thanks for asking. :hi:

NGU.

I stumbled across DU after Kerry's 'loss' kicked me in the gut. The rallying cry of Never Give Up found in several posts at the time helped me rise above the feeling I had that this country had been completely taken over by these right-wing beasts. Every time I see ClassWarrior's posts and NGU it reminds me of that time and how relieved I was to find the people of Democratic Underground.

Thanks. That made my week.

:toast:

NGU, SaveAmerica... NGU!

Thank You! :hug:

Thanks Wendy. :hug:

NNNGU!

because only HER SUPPORT would defect and not back the Democratic party. Besides, Hillary only needs "non-educated hard working whites" to survive politically. All other Demographic groups don't count.

Maybe Hillary could represent West Virginia if New York doesn't work out for her.

Senator Byrd won't be around much longer

she can take her carpetbag and move

The cleric is a character class in Dungeons & Dragons and other fantasy role-playing games. The cleric is a priest, a healer, and a holy warrior, originally modelled on or inspired by the Military Orders. Clerics are usually members of religious orders, with the original intent being to portray soldiers of sacred orders who have magical abilities granted by the gods. Most clerics have powers to heal wounds, protect their allies and sometimes resurrect the dead, as well as summon, manipulate and banish undead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleric_%28character_class%29

:rofl:

usually refers to "muslim clerics" in the Middle East.

(I've never seen Hagee or Pat Robertson, for instance, referred to as "radical clerics" which would seem appropriate).

it's usually with a negative connotation. And my D&D reference was just for a bit of levity.

:rofl: :thumbsup:

Also I was in a testy mood. So TOUCHE!! And may you live long and prosper (I'm old LOL)

I have found some of the Clinton's methods in this campaign detestable. I've supported them, ride or die for years but this year they've let me down. I'm voting for Obama but I don't hate Hillary. I think she will reach out to the black community and there will be healing and forgiveness. But as for right now, she's a pariah to a lot of us.

It is all about how horribly you have all been so sexist and treated her badly.

Aren't you listening to their continuous rant?

Hillary and her 50+ women will stomp over to Senator McCain, in her mind the only candidate other than herself who is qualified to be President. Unless you all grovel and ask their forgiveness.

Everyone knows that Senator Obama somehow controls not only all the media, but is somehow able to tepepathically transmit words and phrases like "assassination" and "hard working WHITE Americans" into the mouth of Hillary.

Haven't you heard Obama screaming "RACIST" in all his speeches the same way thes 50+ women have?

Don't you see it is all his fault?

mindfuck, in a word.
congratulations, you've been completely bamboozled.

i can't believe how easily some progressives/lefties can be manipulated -
it's like they can be fed ANY ludicrous, poisonous crap - no matter how obvious the spin (and the intention behind it) is.



hello, people. Democrats. wake_the_fuck_up, stop acting like some f*cking lemmings.

stop obediently absorbing right-wing memes. stop treating the corporate media as your trusted friend - or even as a "neutral", independent entity. (and yes, that includes Keith Olbermann as well. - and it's hard for me to say it.)


it's a travesty and it's really painful to watch the Democratic party shoot itself in the foot (or in the FACE, rather).



it's REALLY a shame - especially since we STILL have free access to ALL THE INFORMATION (thank god for the internet. don't count on the boob tube though.) *IF* you are willing to think for yourself instead of *letting* yourself being brainwashed.



as for the Clintons... boy oh boy. Rove and Drudge and Novak got themselves some bad fucking karma for this vile and thoroughly EVIL attempt at character assassination, and highly successful effective sabotage of Hillary's campaign (or they WOULD have gotten bad karma for it in a FAIR world).

::::

and you know what dude? i KNOW i CAN count on Hillary for fighting as hard as she can (and as she has always been) for the civil rights, for the universal health coverage, for the right to be able to gracefully retire and have your SS benefits - even if one doesn't plan to retire in the next 5o years and isn't exactly hitting the jackpot right now.... etc, etc, etc.

can i count on Obama?? well, sorry i can NOT - since he's constantly using the right-wing framing and dissing the social programs, and... he simply is NOT running on a traditional democratic platform, period. and it's not about some mythical " " Unity " " - it's about PANDERING to the RIGHT WING and some pretty ***ruthless*** politics.

i don't want to have some sort of a f*cking hybrid/Frankenstein of a pres ('50% Dem, 50% Repug'... 'but mostly interested in attracting the "..."Independents""). sorry - i just don't think that our main problem is the so-called "liberals" being too feisty and "polarized" and "ruining" the GOP's "enlightened" agenda - i happen to think that our problem is that we do NOT have a party that is "polarized" ENOUGH to even be ABLE to CHALLENGE the GOP in the first place.


-

She's interjected race into the campaign to send subtle messages like "hard working whites won't vote for Obama" and most recently her abhorent remarks which suggest "Why should I drop out of the campaign? If Obama is assassinated, you'll sure be glad I stayed in then!" Maybe those statements aren't overtly racist, but they have no place in any democrat's mouth. She's used raced in order to garner more support and it's backfired on her. I, for one, am very glad that it did.

You just proved her wrong

is there some reason why they can not express their feelings on why they think the clintons have dissed them? or are they just mere children who should be seen not heard?

pretty disgusting when some think that they should not express their feelings and turn to action to regress their grievances...

race-baiters who knew a race-war would benefit Obama have pretended her comments and Bill Clinton's comments constituted racism, or "racially tinged" comments, which is another cutesy term they use.

So "hard working Americans, white Americans" or "Jesse Jackson won SC twice" or "next thing you hear is 'vote for me because I don't steal cars'" or Geraldine Ferraro ring ANY bell at ALL?

Many blacks feel that the Clintons have used the race card masterfully, both in subtle and overt terms. It is outrageous and insulting that white people are telling black people how to feel.

You are absolutely delusional.
A Race War would benefit ONLY the candidate of the "Hard Working White Americans".
Do you have even a glimmer of the population percentages of Whiter vs Black in America?
Didn't think so.

But the Hillary campaign does.
They know EXACTLY what they are doing.

Not unique, given how many others on this thread are bound and determined to hide behind(black people are racist). I don't see Democrat in the protection people who attempt to use race against their opponents. But whats a name, anyway?

Maybe we can find other Democratic supporters of Obama in Congress, and get them out too?

:sarcasm:

It'll be worth it, right? Just what the hell is REALLY going on here? It's nuts.

Besides, she might very well lose in the primary and another Dem might win the seat anyway.

The Obama campaign and it's surrogates are getting to look so much like the Bush regime's propaganda. Up is down, wrong is right.

African Americans in New York are very upset with Hillary's behavior and race baiting and intend to hold her accountable, and in your mind that means that Obama has caused a loss of Senate seats? WTF? Obama could drop out right now, but it wouldn't undo any of the damage that Hillary has done, both to herself and to her party. Hillary is the only one to blame for fucking up the future of her political career. And, as much as the thought detests Hillary supporters, eventually she's going to need to pay the political price for her shenanigans. The sooner the better.

Either that or you're white and feel terribly guilty toward AA's about something. If you really had a clue, you'd know it's all about who can win the spin contest.

Do you even realize she isn't even up for reelection for another 4 years? Jeez... Yeah, you're new.

and explain to them just how wrong they are, how racist and sexist they are.

As of yesterday's count, 20 current Senators have endorsed Senator Obama and 13 have endorsed Senator Clinton. Obviously the majority of sitting Senators have made a choice. Obviously they have each considered whose coat tails will ensure them re-election.

But obviously, in your view of the world, they are as wrong as the majority of Democratic voters.

Once you have "educated" those Senators, you need to start working on California, where recent polling has shown a 19 point shift from Clinton to Obama.

Lots of hard work ahead. Good luck.

what states are going to lose democratic senators because of barack....in case you did`t notice he has directly or indirectly helped 3-4 democrats overturn probably a collective 70 years of republican rule.

yes obama will be the ruination of the democratic party

we won't lose the seat. We'd just lose the Clinton.

and not in the last several days.

And a lot of her supporters failed into it not realizing.. so here we are bickering about a primary that's already over by the delegate count, which is how we pick a nominee.. no if or buts.

Its time to come together.

but was being Senator Clinton really what she wanted, or was it the beginning of her campaign?

"Leaders" wouldn't turn people against those who fight them.

Like biting the hand that feeds.

RFK Jr. can still run against her in the primes, he knows that right?

Please tell me I am wrong. I will donate as soon as he announces.

I doubt she'll even run again in 2012. Being a Senator obviously isn't enough for her. If her Presidential dreams die she'll fade into obscurity (hopefully IMO) and spend Bill's lecture money.