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Graham: CIA was 'loose with the facts' about interrogation briefings

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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 05:58 PM
Original message
Graham: CIA was 'loose with the facts' about interrogation briefings
Source: The Gainesville Sun

"We established that three out of four of these alleged briefings never took place," he said.

Read more: http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090515/ARTICLES/905159954/-1/NEWS05
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. recommend -- the CIA has been a loose cannon for a very long time.
reign them the fuck in -- hard.
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. cia records state that they briefed Congress truthfully
at the briefings which never occurred.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. CIA Admits That Info About Torture Briefings For Dems May Not Be Accurate
CIA Admits That Info About Torture Briefings For Dems May Not Be Accurate

As I noted below, newly released documents appear to show that according to the CIA, officials briefed Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats back in 2002 about the use of torture techniques on terror suspects.

But a letter that accompanied these documents, written by the head of the CIA, appears to clearly concede that the information in the docs about who was briefed and when may not be accurate or reliable.

Republicans are pointing to the documents — which were produced by the CIA and the Director of National Intelligence, and sent to select members of Congress — to charge that Pelosi and other Dems have been lying about what they knew about waterboarding and when.

But the docs were accompanied by a letter from CIA chief Leon Panetta that appears to suggest the CIA can’t promise that the info is right. The letter was sent along with the documents to GOP Rep Pete Hoekstra, a leading critic of Dems on torture, and Dem Rep Silvestre Reyes, the chairman of the intelligence committee.

I’ve obtained the letter, and a PDF is right here. This is the key part (click to enlarge):

<snip>


The CIA vs. Sen. Bob Graham: how to keep score at home
14 May 2009 07:49 pm

It's easy! If the CIA says one thing and former Sen. Graham says another, then the CIA is lying. Or, "in error," if you prefer.

<snip>

Part of the payoff of reaching age 72 and having spent 38 years in public office, as Graham has, is that people have had a chance to judge your reputation. Graham has a general reputation for honesty. In my eyes he has a specific reputation for very good judgment: he was one of a handful of Senators actually to read the full classified intelligence report about the "threats" posed by Saddam Hussein. On the basis of reading it, despite a career as a conservative/centrist Democrat, he voted against the war and fervently urged his colleagues to do the same. "Blood is going to be on your hands," he warned those who voted yes.

More relevant in this case, Graham also has a specific reputation for keeping detailed daily records of people he met and things they said. He's sometimes been mocked for this compulsive practice, but he's never been doubted about the completeness or accuracy of what he compiles. (In the fine print of those records would be an indication that I had interviewed him about Iraq war policy while he was in the Senate and recently spent time with him when he was on this side of the world.)

So if he says he never got the briefing, he didn't. And if the CIA or anyone acting on its behalf challenges him, they are stupid and incompetent as well as being untrustworthy. This doesn't prove that the accounts of briefing Pelosi are also inaccurate. But it shifts the burden of proof.

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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. its no longer of question of 'may not be accurate'
its now established that the records are wrong.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yes - Graham said on NPR that the CIA admitted their records are wrong
It was on All Things Considered today.
spanone posted about in another thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5663004&mesg_id=5663781

"They said, 'We will check and call back,'" Graham recalled. "When they finally did a few days later, they indicated that I was correct. Their information was in error. There was no briefing on the first three of four dates."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104196363

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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. but I'm sure that they did a thorough briefing with Congress
and no one in Congress raised any objections during those 3 fictitious meetings.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. And somehow the MSM is *still* attacking Pelosi for lying about them
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targetpractice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Graham's notetaking SKILLZ R SICK, yo!
I recall him showing one of his notebooks on TV... He immediately and compulsively notes everything he does all day.... You could ask him what he had for lunch on a day 10 years ago, and he could look it up.

I thought it was amazing when I heard the CIA was attempting to claim meetings took place with Graham that didn't (especially because it was Graham)!
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Analog Twitter.
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targetpractice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Hah! You're right...
Nice observation!
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. Of course the CIA would never use misinformation, disinformation, or any other type of propaganda.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. Our republic needs the President to appoint a special prosecutor
and let him or her pursue the evidence where it leads and, if the evidence warrants it, prosecute those that broke the law.
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. There would be heads rolling in the street if someone set me like they did Panetta. n/t
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. Did you see Rachel comment on Graham's journals.
They guy has written everything down for 30 Years, EVERYTHING, what he has for breakfast, everyone he meets. He has 1000 of Journals. Someone should add that clip to this thread.

So a few people wanted to say he met with CIA, when he didn't and the records from memory of someone in CIA, goes up against Graham and the journal of everything!

That is so awesome!
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. Nancy Pelosi has been vindicated. Take that stupid Turley.
You thought she was a liar and it comes out that the CIA was lying and she was right on the money all along!!! I adore NP and my faith in her didn't wane through this and I knew she'd come out on top.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Didn't Nancy herself say that she knew in 2003? DU thread link here
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
15. How do you deal with reality? Bob Graham's notes suddenly become VERY important
Finally, his well-deserved day has come.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. 30 years of what many called an odd habit.
Edited on Sat May-16-09 07:48 AM by RandomThoughts
And that odd habit, gets its day. Bob Graham seems interesting, of coarse I don't agree with all his positions on things, who ever does... interesting stories though. Seems like a good guy from what I have read so far.

Here is an organization he started, it is for civic education and public service education.
http://www.graham.centers.ufl.edu/

He also voted against the Iraq war.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63703-2003May1.html

Also
In Saint Petersburg, Florida, a bridge is named after him. He suggested the design of the bridge.
http://www.johnweeks.com/cablestay/pages/csb05.html

Bob Graham Sunshine Skyway Bridge
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. It's been more than two years, but Nancy has finally grown her claws
JUNGLE RED!!!



:evilgrin:
rocktivity
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
19. Regardless of what the CIA records say, Pelosi said she knew in 2003. And, no mattter what,
every American who owns a TV or radio or reads a paper knew of a possiblity that we might be torturing. We defintitely knew about "extraordinary rendition" because of the owners of the private planes. She never requested information, tried for an investigation, etc. And, as soon as she became Speaker, she took impeachment off the table.


No matter how you slice it, the very best you can say is that she did not fulfill her responsiblities as a member of the body that is supposed to have oversight over the Executive and to serve as a check and balance on the excesses of the Executive.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
22. EVERY conversation about Pelosi
...needs to be informed by this.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
23. K&R
:kick:
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livefreest Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
24. i have been thinking that these memos are so vague. i would have thought that an intelligence
agency makes clearer reports of any meeting, more accurate, much more precise. However it seems strangely that in the briefings memo, they used political terms made for public relations like Enhanced Interrogation Techniques.? this is highly suspect to me.
i think Bob Graham is correct in saying
"I think the Republican-led CIA of that era, among other things, was loose with the facts and loose with the record,"

this is the key. this is the x-factor. the incredible disregard, contempt for the law that the Bush/Cheney/Rove administration has shown. Every time we think "they can't go this far! they can't violate this department, that institution! they would never lie about such a vital issue for America!" every time we find out they were always lying through their teeth.

the big players in the Bush/Cheney administration are not strangers to crime. Like Keith Olbermann said on his January 19, 2009 show:


"(...)we compromised with Watergate and the junior members of the Ford Administration realized how little was ultimately at risk: and they grew up to be Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, and Dick Cheney(...)"



Later he adds
"(...)some day there will be another republican president or even a democrat(...)and he will look back to what you did about Mr Bush or what you did not do...and he will see precedent..or as Cheney saw, he will see HOW TO NOT GET CAUGHT NEXT TIME."


Bush, Cheney, Rove, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, Bybee, Yoo, Boehner, Cantor, McConnell, and many more republicans and conservatives are just trying to change the rules of the political game and cease hostage the power of the government, just like it had been tried during Nixon administration. Very powerful and wealthy interests are helping them: corporations, MSM, CEOs,... i don't understand why DUers want to help them
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thanks for the link - KICK n/t
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