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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 12:51 PM
Original message
Primate Fossil Could Be Key Link in Evolution
Source: ABC News

Primate Fossil Could Be Key Link in Evolution
Young Female Had Thumbs, Fingernails, May Have Walked
By NED POTTER
May 16, 2009 —

Scientists say a 47-million-year-old fossil found in Germany may be a key link to explain the evolution of modern human beings.

The fossil, of a young female that probably resembled a modern-day lemur, is described as "the most complete primate fossil ever found." It is small -- with a body about the size of a raccoon -- but it has characteristics that suggest a relationship both to primates and humans.

It has, among other things, opposable thumbs, similar to humans' and unlike those found on other modern mammals. It has fingernails instead of claws. And scientists say they believe there is evidence it was able to walk on its hind legs.

The find is being published next week in the online journal Public Library of Science - One (PLoS One for short). The cable channel History, which bought the North American documentary rights to the find, provided exclusive details to ABC News.

"She is a transitional species showing characteristics from both the non-human (prosimians and lemurs) and human (anthropoids, monkeys, apes and man) evolutionary lines," said the producers in a statement reviewed by the authors of the PLoS One paper.

It was discovered by amateur fossil hunters in 1983 in a mile-wide crater called the Messel Shale Pit, not far from Frankfurt. Scientists speculate that at one time the pit was a volcanic caldera, where animals got caught and their remains unusually were well preserved. The amateurs recognized that they had a very good fossil, but they did not recognize its potential importance.

The location, a UNESCO World Heritage Site, has been the source of many other fossils from the Eocene Period, about 50 million years ago.

The fossil was shown by collectors to Dr. Jorn Hurum of the University of Oslo, who brought in colleagues from Oslo and Norway's Senckenberg Research Institute to authenticate the find. They bought the specimen so that it would not disappear into private hands.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=7603618&page=1
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. cognitively
Edited on Sat May-16-09 01:01 PM by mix
opposable thumbs and fingernails might mean that this transitional mammal could outsmart its prey, and maybe used a rock or stick to kill
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Now that they have found Eve, can Adam be far behind?
And does that mean that God really looks like this:

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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. what a beautiful god, if that's the case
smart eyes, wily tail
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. God has a tail and is female
I could worship such a deity.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. I always thought that he might be a she (with a tail)
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. It's a cat! No wait, it's a monkey. Hey, that damn thing just stole my wallet!
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. god has no lips? n/t
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
59. Yes god does have lips...
GOD LIPS!!!
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #59
71. Lemurs have no lips. That's why they have to turn their heads upward when they eat fruit. n/t
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
77. Very distinguished! Remarkable little hands, too. n/t
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Multiple Choice...
Edited on Sat May-16-09 01:33 PM by SkyDaddy7
What will the Christian Creationist say?

A. This is a fabrication by godless scientist out to prove the Bible wrong.

B. It was placed here by god to test our faith.

C. It is a monkey that is only 4000-6000yrs old.

D. They will finally give in and accept reality.
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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. not D
I'm Christian left.

Not A however. Stick it with B & C.

That's not to say the earth isn't a million years old. that I can't say whether I believe that or not.


Far Right wing would be A.

Far Left wing would be D. Oh ask Neo what reality is. Are we actually sleeping :)
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Since when is not being a complete moron constrained to "the far left."? n/t
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. The earth is around 4.57 billion year old,
not "maybe" a million and certainly not 6,000. Science isn't out to fool anyone. Science relies on evidence. Just sayin'
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Stellabella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. There's also an E.
The devil put it there to turn us against God.

I grew up with fundies, and that's what they would say.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
57. YES YES YES!!
I forgot "E"...I have heard that one as well! I live 45min south of Atlanta and some of the stuff I here is simply comedy!!
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
29. B. *
* first of all Ned Potter (the writer) is about to receive a heapin' helpin' of hate

AND since it was in Germany I am sure they will work some vaguely disguise message about white supremacy
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
62. You forgot E. The devil himself put it there.
D. is not an option for them as they been successfully brainwashed.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. YES!
Someone else mentioned "E" and I could not believe I forgot it...I have heard them say that before.
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winter999 Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
78. I've already read Rush Libaugh using option A.
Creationists = Flat Earthers.
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jb5150 Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. Maybe it was someone's pet....
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BpDNdb-o2MU/SfYajYhVReI/AAAAAAAABRg/F-bRkwltSLA/s400/Picture+7.png

"You're a good boy; yes you are, yes you are" .............:hide:
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. So THAT's how Noah fit the dinosaurs on the ark!
He only took the BABIES!

Damn things STILL ate both unicorns.
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fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
50. That's a riot!
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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm so friggin sick of the arguement that their are gaps in the fossile record...
Obviously this won't help since they will simply ignore and dismiss this one too just like all the others.

What a pool of retards the creationists are.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. They will always look at the "gaps", not the evidence. Anyway, there
will never be enough evidence for them.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. The gaps that exist are part of the evidence.
Such gaps led Gould to prefer a punctuated equilibrium model to a gradualist one. The problem with the creationists is that the evidence is overwhelmingly against them.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. They have a lot riding on them being right. If they are wrong, their whole
world view would crumble. Anyway, looking for "scientific" evidence to support their religion shows a lack of faith on their part. The same goes for those who insist on putting the word of the law behind their belief system.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. "the word of the law"?
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #52
67. Force of the law. Oops.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. Juvenile creationists. nt
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
53. If you find a fossil to put into a "Gap", A fundie just says there are now 2 gaps.
It can never be won with them. Just remove them from positions of power and let them fester.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
66. Of course they'll dismiss this!
This find just created two more gaps!
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. Very cool. I love this stuff. nt
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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
11.  'It was discovered by amateur fossil hunters in 1983'
I don't understand why it was being kept secret.

'The researchers were able to keep their work secret until word leaked out in the last week.'

Unless there is a danger/containment issue with a discovery, why keep us in the dark? It makes me wonder how many other things are being kept from us.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. It stops private people trying to take more fossils from the same place
and gives the universities a chance to see if there are more finds in the same area.
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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. I had no idea that it took
more than 20 years to examine an area. Seems like they could have publicized the find without disclosing the location.

It is such a fascinating discovery. I love this kind of stuff.
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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
48. there was money involved
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. They didn't know what they had yet. n/t
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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. I don't think there's anything sinister involved
According to the article, professional paleontologists only started working on the fossil about 2 years ago. During that time, yes, they may have wanted to keep things under wraps so that when they did announce their findings, they would have the maximum impact (which they wouldn't if bits and pieces were leaking out as they worked). Scientists are not above craving a little media attention when they can get it.

As far as how many other things are being "kept from us" museums all over the world have artifacts and specimens that have been collected, but never looked at seriously for a long time, due to lack of time and funding, or simply neglect. Once in while, one of these things is re-discovered in a drawer or cabinet somewhere and recognized as being of much more importance than had been realized, but there are almost certainly no deep, dark secrets being hidden.
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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. I wasn't implying there was anything sinister
about it. I'm just curious. I love hearing about new discoveries. I wonder how many new ones are forthcoming. Each one adds a piece to the puzzle.

As for 'deep, dark secrets'? They may not be dark, but there certainly are some being hidden, as this discovery proves. Pretty fascinating, if you ask me.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
41. The amateurs may not have realized what they had or let anyone see it
And real experts may not have seen it until recently.

The next paragraph after the last quoted in the OP reads:

"Examination of the fossil went on for two years. They have called the specimen Darwinius masillae. The researchers were able to keep their work secret until word leaked out in the last week."

Two years sound reasonable for a very complete analysis of a fossil by one team.

Amateurs sometimes are more into the collecting than they are into identifying or analysis. My sister is very talented at locating fossils and rough identification, but she does not do very well at analyzing them and does not write scientific papers to be published to share what she finds. Since she has found some very unique fossils, paleontologists visit her to study what she has and they have written up one or two of her finds.

That is very typical for many amateurs - and some do not allow others to study their finds. Maybe they found them at places where they were not authorized to dig. Sometimes, the state or authorized paleontologists will claims the finds from amateurs who were on group digs on state or private lands, so amateurs often hide what they have found. I know my sister will not allow the paleontologists to remove her finds from her house since she has experienced this kind of 'taking'.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
42. As I'm sure you know, digs are often kept secret to avoid looters from absconding
with archaeological and/or fossil evidence and contaminating the site. Often times tributes are all that it takes to locate the site, even if the exact location is not identified in a particular published article. That doesn't appear to be the case here. This article is nebulous as to when the fossil actually made it into the hands of the scientists noted in the article. It may be that the amateur fossil hunters found the evidence in 1983 and sold it to collectors who passed it along to the respective scientists in the last few years. From the article:
"The amateurs recognized that they had a very good fossil, but they did not recognize its potential importance." and further "The fossil was shown by collectors to Dr. Jorn Hurum of the University of Oslo, who brought in colleagues from Oslo and Norway's Senckenberg Research Institute to authenticate the find. They bought the specimen so that it would not disappear into private hands."

This isn't a clandestine site, in fact it's a UNESCO World Heritage Site, but this appears to be a case of people not recognizing the importance of the this fossil evidence until recently.

I can't wait to learn more about this! Fascinating.
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. k/r
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. More info from Paleonews
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. K&R
Edited on Sat May-16-09 03:02 PM by Solly Mack
This kind of stuff thrills me.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R Very cool.
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Happyhippychick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
23. How can it be 47 million years old when the earth is only 6000 years old?
Obligatory :sarcasm: tag
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24601 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
38. DUH!!! Aliens brought it here
It had been in their fossile collection for millions of years and they left it behind, probably 3200 years ago.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
26. But...but...but, we don't have evidence of evolution on a macro level. Or so say the ID idiots. n/t
J
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Evolution is so clearly illustrated
in the fossil record that we can even trace dinosaur evolution. The same is true of human evolution and now we have genetic verification of the fossil record. IDiots and creationists should completely abandon their arguments but they are so uninformed and misinformed that they don't know how badly they are beaten. I mean, it is 97 to 12 in the fourth quarter and their only decent player just left the floor with a broken leg.
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nikto Donating Member (414 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
32. This can't be true, because my religion says...
...That the Earth was created by Elvis Presley out of giant jelly donut particles
a little over 167 years ago.

My bible says so, so it's got to be true!!




















(My bible also says you have to give me all of your money, now.):evilgrin:
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##



This week is our second quarter 2009 fund drive.
Donate and you'll be automatically entered into our daily contest.
New prizes daily!



No purchase or donation necessary. Void where prohibited. Click here for more information.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
61. How much money do you think...
How much money do you think the Discovery Institute would have paid for this fossil to keep it hidden?


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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
34. Gosh, that's an awfully early splitoff to be upright.
Did the other great apes just get bent afterward? Or are they now proposing we are barely on the same tree as the great apes?
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. good question! First they tell us that birds are reptiles, now this.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. 'able to walk on hind legs' needn't mean 'always walk on hind legs' or 'upright'
"She is a transitional species showing characteristics from both the non-human (prosimians and lemurs) and human (anthropoids, monkeys, apes and man) evolutionary lines," said the producers in a statement reviewed by the authors of the PLoS One paper.


Many apes and, I think, some monkeys are able to walk on their hind legs (forwards - I seem to remember even lemurs do sideways hops on their hind legs, but I guess that doesn't count), but it's awkward for them, and they can't do it for long. Maybe that's what they think this could have done.
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Fozzledick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #34
68. It shows a potential ability that later descendants could expand on or abandon as needed
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #34
70. They did not say it was bipedal.
It was 'capable' of walking upright, just as modern gorillas and chimps do sometimes.
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sutz12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #70
76. Hell, bears and dogs can "walk upright"
They don't do it all of the time, of course, but they can do it. I assume it's the same kind of thing.
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downindixie Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. Eve alution!
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
37. Wow
and God created monkey type creatures.....
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Miss_Underestimated Donating Member (239 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
40. hmmmmm - photos uncovered as well (sorry)
Edited on Sat May-16-09 06:26 PM by Miss_Underestimated


"She is a transitional species showing characteristics from both the non-human (prosimians and lemurs) and human (anthropoids, monkeys, apes and man) evolutionary lines," said the producers in a statement reviewed by the authors of the PLoS One paper.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
43. There Goes God Pranking Us Again
R.I.P. Bill Hicks.
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RetiredTrotskyite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
45. Majorly Cool...
that this primate has been found and thus is yet another piece in the puzzle of human evolution. Fundies will never accept reality but the rest of us can enjoy the miracle that is nature. Thanks for posting!
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
49. John McCain?
They found John McCain in Germany?
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JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
51. Some great anti-creationist folks post good solid stuff on You tube ...
This guy is the best I know of. He has lots of stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Thunderf00t

Here is a good one.........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY

Warning, he also thinks Ron Paul is a nut case over Swine Flu, and and few other inconsistencies in science.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SkepticSage

Another poster with lots of thoughts about Creationism, and religious bigotry.


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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. That's good stuff
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AverageJoe5 Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. What was the origin of the primate?
What was the origin of this primate which may supposedly be a key link in the evolution of humans? I always search, unsuccessfully, for an answer to that question whenever I read a story such as this one about the evolution of human beings. The lack of an answer to that critical question is a major flaw in (Darwin's) theory of evolution.

Obviously, the primate didn't create itself (that would violate a fundamental law of logic). Therefore, either: (a) The primate had (or has) self-dependent, eternal existence; or (b) The primate was created by some other Being that has eternal, self dependent existence (God?). So what's the answer, Mr. Darwin?
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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. The reason you search unsuccessfully
is that the question is so assinine that no one would even conceive of the need to answer it in such a story. You've created a false dichotomy through ignorance, so your question is flawed from the start.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. Average Joe...Are You Joe the Plumber?
Seems like a Joe the Plumber question?
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #56
63. some other B-being could be many ETs too...
you know, b-B_eings that fly in chariots of fire so fast, they had to be angels of ONE superior K-king that we all must FEAR (or something like that?)
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JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. Primates are one branch of mammals.....we have dogs, elephants, etc........
Edited on Sat May-16-09 09:59 PM by JayMusgrove
what is your problem? We have all sorts of mammals, did you ask THAT question, too?

What is the origin of mammals? We have fish and birds, and you have no problem with those, but ask about primates?

Here's a clue, the genes for the animals with eyes are 99.99% the same in all animals with eyes, fish, dogs, elephants, so what you need to be looking at is the transitions from four-legged mammals to two legged mammals, where the genes are even more similar to humans....

In other words, the more we learn about genetics, and genomes, the more logical it is that we are all closely related to whales, more than we are to birds. (Birds lay eggs, and humans and whales deliver offspring as living organisms, not as eggs.)

Just some thoughts for your evening.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #56
73. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #56
75. Early Primate Evolution: The First Primates
The first primates may have evolved during the last part of the Paleocene Epoch. These were members of the genus Altiatlasius. Their bones have been found in 60,000,000 year old geological deposits in Morocco, but they probably lived in other areas at this time as well. They looked different from the primates today. They were still somewhat squirrel-like in size and appearance, but apparently they had grasping hands and feet that were increasingly more efficient in manipulating objects and climbing trees. It is likely that they were developing effective stereoscopic vision.

The beginning of the Eocene Epoch coincides with the appearance of early forms of most of the placental mammal orders that are present today. Among them were primate species that somewhat resemble modern prosimians such as lemurs, lorises, and possibly tarsiers. This was the epoch of maximum prosimian adaptive radiation. There were at least 60 genera of them that were mostly in two families--the Adapidae (similar to lemurs and lorises) and the Omomyidae (possibly like galagos and tarsiers). This is nearly four times greater prosimian diversity than today. Eocene prosimians lived in North America, Europe, Africa, and Asia. It was during this epoch that they reached the island of Madagascar. The great diversity of Eocene prosimians was probably a consequence of the fact that they did not have competition from monkeys and apes since these latter more advanced primates had not yet evolved.

Major evolutionary changes were beginning in some of the Eocene prosimians that foreshadow species yet to come. Their brains and eyes were becoming larger, while their snouts were getting smaller. At the base of a skull, there is a hole through which the spinal cord passes. This opening is the foramen magnum (literally the "large hole or opening" in Latin). The position of the foramen magnum is a strong indicator of the angle of the spinal column to the head and subsequently whether the body is habitually horizontal (like a horse) or vertical (like a monkey). During the Eocene, the foramen magnum in some primate species was beginning to move from the back of the skull towards the center. This suggests that they were beginning to hold their bodies erect while hopping and sitting, like modern lemurs, galagos, and tarsiers.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/earlyprimates/first_primates.htm
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
55. recommend
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
69. Cool.
Always interesting to find another piece of the human puzzle.
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flying rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
72. Ahh the lemur.
now this video starts to make sense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0MaZ1rdwwU
sort of
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Vehl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
74. great news. also loved this PBS program that debunks creationism

"intelligent Design on Trial"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/

a must watch for everyone who loves science and dislikes religious fundi-theories.
the "Intelligent design"(creationists) proponents got demolished in the 2 hour documentary.

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winter999 Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
79. Here's a frightful thought - The discussion here and on LGF
are in 100% agreement! Say it isn't so that there may actually be some common ground?! After all, we had a common ancestor.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
80. Now that the extravaganza dust has settled of the "breaking news"
It seemed all to "Hollywood" that the normal routes were bypassed in order to get some sort of prime time surge in ratings for analready made for cable program



Origin of the Specious



Ida the fossil was hailed as the ‘missing link’ in our evolution. Don’t believe the hype



snip


The claims were marred only by Attenborough’s choice of an evocative phrase with a rather dodgy history. Last century the term “missing link” became tainted by its association with the “discovery” in 1912 of Piltdown Man. This fossil of an apparent early human fooled scientists for 40 years before tests revealed it as a hoax.

Ida appears not to be a hoax - but could she be hype?

Attenborough acted in good faith but he was just one element of the media circus turning Ida into humanity’s newest and best link with its ancient past.

Such finds are usually unveiled to the world through the sober pages of an academic journal but for Ida nothing less than a glittering press conference at the American Museum of Natural History in New York would do.


snip

The excitement spread fast. One newspaper said Ida could “revolutionise how we see human evolution”. Even geeky Google was impressed, adding an impression of the fossil to the front page of its website. Many scientists, however, were shocked. They revere understatement, knowing how easily allegations of hype can damage careers. What is more, in the research paper detailing the discovery, the scientists had painted a rather different picture. Ida, they said, “could represent a stem group from which later anthropoid primates (including humans) evolved but we are not advocating this here”.



snip

“First, the paper is shoddy scholarship because it avoids comparing Darwinius masillae with similar fossils to put it into a proper context. The roll-out was extraordinary and it is now clear that the scientists were under pressure to meet the showbusiness deadlines. The tail was wagging the dog– or maybe the lemur.”

Simons does not buy the spin either. “It’s absurd and dangerous,” he said. “This is all bad science and it plays into the hands of the creationists, who look for any excuse to discredit evolution.


snip


.........

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article6350095.ece



With all the sudden hype


I was expecting MacDonalds/Burger King to announce a new "Happy Meal" toy along with discount tix to an Indiana Jones/Jurassic Park double feature summer blockbuster



really








the search continues

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