Military attorney: Waterboarding is ‘tip of the iceberg’

Source: Raw Story

Military attorney: Waterboarding is ‘tip of the iceberg’

By David Edwards and Muriel Kane

Published: May 20, 2009
Updated 2 hours ago



A military attorney who represented a now-freed Guantanamo detainee told CNN on Wednesday that waterboarding is only “the tip of the iceberg”

Air Force Lieutenant Yvonne Bradley was the lawyer for Binyam Mohamed, an Ethiopian national who was arrested by the Pakistani government in April 2002 on suspicion of being a member of al Qaeda. He was then shuffled through a series of CIA “ghost prisons” before being imprisoned at Guantanamo for five years. Last winter, President Obama ordered him released to the United Kingdom, where he had been a legal resident.

Bradley told CNN that when she was first assigned to represent Mohamed, she did not question he was a hardened terrorist, because “my government was saying these were the worst of the worst.” However, she now says, “There’s no reliable evidence that Mr. Mohamed was going to do anything to the United States.”

According to Bradley, when Mohamed was first held at a CIA prison in Morocco, “They started this monthly treatment where they would come in with a scalpel or a razor type of instrument and they would slash his genitals, just with small cuts.”

Read more: http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/20/worse-than-waterboarding/

---

CNN VIDEO AVAILABLE:
from CNN’s American Morning, broadcast May 20, 2009.
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/20/worse-than-waterboarding/

In front of their fathers

The picture of the Chimp's success in Iraq-Nam

That hurts just thinking about that.

What a bunch of sick bastards.

Sick bastards is the nice way to say it.



A great # of the people we picked up in Afghanistan were innocent ..... we were paying
$10,000 a head for terrorists and the war lords / crime bosses in Afghanistan went out
and rounded up "terrorists."

These freaks should spend the rest of their lives in prison.

He didn't really care. To him, these weren't human beings with any right to dignity or humane treatment. In fact, no one outside of Cheney's inner circle is a human being to him - and that includes all of us.

We could all die horribly tomorrow and the only concern to Cheney would be how it affected him and his bank account.

Cheney doesn't think we're capable of handling the truth, that he's out there, doing what has to be done to keep us all safe, and that the rest of us are morons for dickering over a little "necessary" torture.

If Cheney were to be threatened with waterboarding, his heart would probably instantly seize up, way before the waterboarding was anywhere near to getting started.

Handling a gun and not ending up blowing a friend's face to bits.

Because he's PROUD of his crimes. "You can't handle the truth, if you will. You're damn right I ordered torture! And I'd do it again, as such."

All he cares about is increasing his own wealth and power (apparently there's no upper limit in either department), and all human beings on earth are simply a means to that end.

Cheney doesn't think we're capable of handling the truth, that he's out there, doing what has to be done to keep us all safe, and that the rest of us are morons for dickering over a little "necessary" torture.

No, that's what he wants us to BELIEVE he's doing. He wants us to think he's Dirty Harry, doing what needs to be done even if it means getting his hands a little bit dirty. And the stupid wingnuts really buy into that Dirty Harry mythos. They just eat it right up, because like to think of themselves the same way! I'm sure Cheney is well aware of that.

Fortunately, there aren't as many suckers around these days as there used to be.

In particular, this statement is very wrong:


We could all die horribly tomorrow and the only concern to Cheney would be how it affected him and his bank account.

In fact, Cheney cares very much about the suffering of others. This is because he cannot attain orgasm without it. Wanna bet he has a private collection of snuff vids created especially for him at Gitmo & Abu Ghraib by the CIA?

No convictions . . . and much torture --

they were torturing them to try to prove their lies.


Meanwhile, IMO, the "terraists" who did 9/11 were in the WH and

someday we might have the evidence to prove that.

the guy sure as hell likes to kill and torture

Bring the anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-morality, anti-law Republicon torture freaks to justice

gawd bless amurika.

to make their parents talk. Maybe true, maybe not; we need to find out.

evidently saw the information still being withheld from the public.

And, yes -- various kinds of abuse of children seemed to have been in play!

Imagine, children in these concentration camps!!!

And that's what they certainly are -- concentration camps!!!

And, Yoo and Gonzales and the other lawyers are still entitled to practice law!?

The physicians should also have their licenses lifted!

I read Bernard Weiner's "Shallow Throat" article last night which puts forth the case that Obama wants to get his health care bill through, and do some other domestic things, and doesn't want the distraction of holding criminals to account to cut into his legacy (I'm paraphrasing here). And the subtext, of course, is that he is corporately controlled

This is reminiscent of Nancy Pelosi's "First 100 Hours" list, which was so compelling and took up so much attention of the House that impeachment was just off the table. No time for it; can't multitask. Nancy was all consumed with the minimum wage, not the growing evidence of war crimes and the total shame of this country before the world.

Fuggettabout it! Change, that is!

We were the good guys, circa 1945. How fallen are the mighty!

After all, Obama has an entire DOJ that has to do something --
and still loaded with 51 Bushie AG's he invited to stay!

Agree Obama is corporately-controlled, though we seem to have spent more on Obama
than the corporations did . . . somewhere over $800 billion he picked up from
individuals - nonetheless, the corporations have the leverage, we don't.

I think they are sweating the health care because they know the public is onto
the scam of corporate involvement in health care for profit and don't want it.
And, I think we should all keep the heat on.

When they told us in school what the "discovers" had done to the native Americans . . .
I was on alert from that point on. And, especially when Reagan was telling us what
good guys were were post-WWII in not taking over everything, I was even more
suspicious.

Wasn't familiar with Bernie Weiner's "Shallow Throat" . . .

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/CrisisPapers

Latest post to Crisis Papers.

Hope to get to it tonight . . . thanks!

about what actions need be taken re: health care.

http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=74&jumival=385

to watch it --

I again "faved" your link to it and hope before long to get to them!

:)

Its so far beyond sick and disgusting there aren't even words for it.

what I was referring to was a supposed "viewing" of this material in Congress . .

I recall photos of the women coming out of the room where the photos were shown --

I also got the impression the video of the sodomizing of children was shown.

As I recall the female members of Congress were highly upset - seemed to have been

crying. I have no way of knowing if this is the same material -- just guessing.

At least one of them says they saw a 15-18 year old being raped. The women kept there were raped, children wouldn't surprise me. According to Sy Hersch, they were.

"Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror it’s going to come out."

http://www.appletreeblog.com/?p=1000



This is the testimony of one of the detainees, Kasim Mehaddi Hilas (in pdf, second page is relevant):

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/abughraib/151108.pdf

And here is the repository of some of the other detainee testimony:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/abughraib/swornstatements042104.html



But hey, it's all just a fraternity prank.

The sickness on the right is overwhelming. Imagine being "pro-torture" and justifying it because you are quaking with fear. How un-American can they possibly get?

mind.

“It is worth bearing in mind that all charges against Binyam have been dropped and that Binyam’s chief prosecutor resigned, citing the unfairness of the system. I profoundly hope that he is not being kept in Guantánamo to avoid information surrounding his rendition and torture coming out.”

If that picture is Binyam Mohamed now, how young was he seven years ago?


Prosecute, Mr. President, or you will make me and my descendants face the consequences of Bushco's vile acts. You will let them off the hook while we and our descendants pay. Does that seem at all right or fair to you, Mr. President?

Recommended.

From the Raw Story article: Air Force Lieutenant Yvonne Bradley was the lawyer for Binyam Mohamed, an Ethiopian national who was arrested by the Pakistani government in April 2002 on suspicion of being a member of al Qaeda. He was then shuffled through a series of CIA “ghost prisons” before being imprisoned at Guantanamo for five years. Last winter, President Obama ordered him released to the United Kingdom, where he had been a legal resident.

No reason anyone could come up with to keep holding him. There was no evidence he'd ever plotted anything against the United States.

Re I profoundly hope that he is not being kept in Guantánamo to avoid information surrounding his rendition and torture coming out.

That's why Congress is dragging its feet about closing Gitmo and why all the squawking heads are suddenly screaming about the dangers of bringing "terrists" to the U.S. Not because they are afraid of anything they might do...but because of what they can SAY about the land of the free and the home of the brave.

and this from a lifelong republican who is standing up for the country. Remember her name Lieutenant Yvonne Bradley. We will be hearing more from her. I salute her

I see a discharge in her not too distant future.

"unquestionably guilty," when referring to Gitmo detainees who have never been tried.

Just a suggestion.

:kick:

I think all this waterboarding talk has been a cover for the torture that is far worse. The Republicans like having the focus on waterboarding. I have read so many under the radar accounts on the internet of so much worse that it had to be only a matter of time before it started surfacing in a way that couln't be stuffed back down.

I wonder how long before the mainstream media picks up on what waterboarding talk is supposed to cover up? Hopefully it will. This is probably the reason that photos aren't being released, a lot would come flooding out and we would have to discuss it.

so, it's all safe and completely harmless, like a fraternity prank.

:sarcasm:

Shiro Ishii (chief medical officer of the Japanese Army) and his Unit 731. All civilized nations have respectable accomplices.

MAKE THE BASTARDS FACE CHARGES!!! None of this watered-down, grandstanding, immunity-granting weasely (sorry if I've insulted the Mustelidae family!) Congressional sh!t! INDICT and INCARCERATE!!!

:hi:

Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: 202-456-2461
TTY/TDD

Comments: 202-456-6213
Visitors Office: 202-456-2121

... looking the other way? Or is it forward? I don't know... it's hard to keep track of the euphemisms. But I seem to recall that anything that might offend the republican party is "out" now. :sarcasm:

behind them!!!

And, Obama wants us to look only forward --

don't look back on the devastation to government by 8 years of criminals in WH!

If we don't look back, hey. . . everything will run smoothly from here on out!

No chance that the criminals are still hanging around -- like 51 Bush AGs still in DOJ --

or that they might still have influence???

Nah -- !!!

see it's working already. If only Goering and the others had tried that at Nuremberg.

the RNC keeps Steele -- !!!

:)

Nancy Pelosi, Carrie Prejean, Nancy Pelosi, Carrie Prejean, Nancy Pelosi, Carrie Prejean,

Look .....a distraction>>>>>>>>>>>

sexual stuff -- slicing someone's genitals !!!??? -- was big on the

Rummy/Cheney/Bush/Yoo/Gonzalez hit parade of torture.

Rape . . . sodomy . . . of course these would be used for "humiliation" though

I think the humiliation is to the US and upon those who did these perverted acts!!!

The GOP corruption and criminality runs very deeply thru our government ---

a disease that has crippled and mutilated much of government and what we used to

call justice!!

Cheers to this lawyer who has stood up to try to tell us the truth --

and the courage of those prisoners who have been thru this and are still trying to

tell us truth!

who is merely trying to defend her client and will say anything to gain him release.

Check the OP again. I guess they ran out of excuses to keep holding him, considering that he'd never done or plotted anything against the U.S.

You know darned well that if the Cheney machine is admitting to waterboarding, there's much, much more they're not admitting. We've heard for YEARS from Seymour Hersch about children being sodomized at Abu Ghraib. When in hell is this going to hit the "mainstream" media where people will actually hear about it?

Hang these Nazis by their balls. The 'people' do not support this in the least.

citizens were charege $40.00 for an embroudered towel with a KBR monogram and we know that KBR means kickback to the top government heads or to their accounts holding funds to pay for their secret sub-government - we can assume that they made some kind of kickbacks from all the contractors involved in the torture - this includes heads of nations or heads of air port agencies or fuel companies and those damn insane psychologists and psychiatrists who helped torture those poor humans.

We have to prove through money, plus statements.

Who does the Congressonal GAO work for? Republicans and obedient Democrats?

Put a pocketbook around all this.

Imagine this - we pay twice, three times and more.

We pay to torture.
We pay to be lied to with the media crap, including seven major tb/cable/satellite corporations.
Then we pay for legal defense.

Unless the people of these nations whose citizens we tortured are as forgiving as the Vietnamese, we are going to pay with lives.

Bush's crusade failed and is still failing.

Embarssment, yet. To humanity.

Our bad.

to do this nazi-like crap.

'Cause I'd just hate to think they'd done something illegal.

Is there a respectable Republican who now knows about this stuff and will continue to block a vital investigation into US torture practices? I'm sick just thinking about it. The Dems have got to scream louder and daily. God help us.

Razors to the genitals? That's like barbaric, old-school European type torture. What's next, subjects being drawn and quartered?

But we have to pussyfoot around everything. The rest of the world would cheer their prosecution. They would judge us based on whether we cheer ourselves or idly shuffle our feet in an "aw shucks" manner.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6621486727392146155

Starting at 14:00 Abu Ghraib
16:00 Civilian Contractors
18:00 C.A.C.I.
20:30 Prisonor Account of his treatment in U.S. Custody (Urinated at him)
50:15 Water Problems
52:00 Statement regarding Dodging a bullet, but returning home with pathogens in the blood, with no knowledge that they are there.

It's pretty clear that the Bush Administration will try to blame the Corporations that provided the Interrogators, given that Corporations are virtually immune from liability

:kick:

protests in the streets? I know why. We have no money or cannot take the time from work-if we have a job- to do what should be done.

We should be out in the millions, protesting our government involvement in all of this horror.

President Obama is dropping the ball on us. There is NO reason that he cannot start real investigations into the horrors done in the name of the US. Plenty of capable people can do it while he does his own work.

Time for our demands for real investigations to begin.

BTW, I heard a few days ago that on-line petitions are not accepted by the White House. True?

They're fucking out of control.

"It's just like a frat house prank. Hazing, if you will."

Sooner or later, though, people will start remembering that people DIED while in our custody undergoing "enhanced interrogation." And no doubt Cheney will defend that, saying, "Well, it made the others quicker to talk." But it puts all involved on the hook for felony murder charges.

I am so fucking ashamed of what we did :cry:

I don't think it was the swine flu that got them. I've heard reports that we had 98 detainees die during captivity....either in Gitmo or in our other secret CIA prisons around the world. How do you suppose they might have died? Bad colds? Old age? Oh please!!

And how many did we send to other nations TO BE TORTURED????

How about TORTURED TO DEATH? Hmmmmm, now that has a possibility of making sense.

We are all f*cked in the head about "only three persons were waterboarded" (what? 500+ times???) Get serious!! Just how f*cking naive do we have to play??

This IS the tip of the iceberg.

But wait....let's just debate whether or not Nancy Pelosi is telling the truth about being informed????? We really are a f*cked nation of morons. What is THAT even a subject????? Because the neocon/fascist party wants it to be...and the f*cked MSM is giving them all the air time they demand.

We are F*CKED!! Yes...WE!!

AMY GOODMAN: Why do you say Nancy Pelosi knew about the torture?

JEREMY SCAHILL: Right. I mean, the fact is that Nancy Pelosi was fumbling in her press conference through a statement that someone else clearly wrote for her. This is not some secret that Nancy Pelosi was briefed on this. In fact, the Washington Post reported on this in 2007, that she had been briefed and that other Democrats that were senior figures in the Democratic leadership, particularly on the Intelligence Committee, had received briefings about the tactics that were being used at Guantanamo.

I think what’s going to be important is that we know that some of the members of Congress, Democrat and Republican, who were briefed actually pushed for stronger tactics to be used during these briefings. I think one of the reasons why the Democrats are—the Democratic leadership is not pushing for a special independent prosecutor in this case is because if you actually examine the record, you will find that the Democrats funded these programs, supported these programs, and refused to speak up when it actually mattered. That’s the pattern we saw through the eight years of the Bush administration. Now that the Democrats are in power, you see Obama—the right wing tries to say flip-flopping—you see Obama upholding the consistent one-party system in this country when it comes to foreign policy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=314265&mesg_id=314265

the linked articles do not mention this.

'Evil, pushy' people take over

Published: May 19. 2009 12:01AM

Many say Republicans should be punished because they used torture methods to obtain information from those suspected of being responsible for 9/11.

What on earth were we supposed to do to get information? I have heard of worse methods.

Because we needed to protect ourselves from terrorists, I think any method used should be acceptable. Those people still have plans to do violent acts. We would be stupid to let this happen without trying to get information to stop it.

At election time, some yahoos will say anything to get elected and stay in office. They are the dingbats and enemies of our country. Honest and upright people have gone home in disgust because they could not change "business as usual in Washington." Are we not destined to be led by these morons and leeches forever? Can't we get an honest and dedicated person in office anymore?

http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090519/OPINION02/305199993

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

are prosecuted?

The sooner Obama makes sure that those evil bastards pay for their crimes the better.

If Obama's great supporter Oprah (and the woman greatly responsible for Obama's election to office) was the president, she would NEVER let this shit slide.

So why is Obama? :wtf:

Germany. Because I am a German American I have never been able to get rid of the feeling of quilt that knowledge has left with me. I would get a feeling of horror every time I was subjected to the truth. This happened even though my family sent their young men to fight against Hitler in WWII.

Now when I read this and learn more about what my country is doing to people of other countries I am once again over whelmed with that feeling. How could anyone who represented this great country of ours (the one that used to be) act in such a shameful way? What in God's name were they thinking they were accomplishing? All they have done is make us sick to our stomachs. I hope somewhere, someday they will feel the shame that I do just reading this.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Not the rank and file, not their bosses.

Mark my words.

This story was reported on Democracy Now some years ago, along with dental torture, use of power drills, and all the other sadistic "democracy" the CIA loves to spread.

:mad:

Don't forget that we still have these official prisons in, say Bagram, where the prisoners still have no legal status. They may be not be doing it there, because of the Obama order. BUT, there are black site prisons all over the globe, where we made deals with other countries. You can bet your fucking life this shit is still going on somewhere right now, in our name. Don't look back...



("New Light Shed on CIA's 'Black Site' Prisons")
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022702214.html

The executive order Obama signed earlier this year included shutting down all black sites:



("CIA Black Sites No Longer Being Used, Panetta Says")
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/09/cia-black-sites-no-longer_n_185278.html

I hope that's true, and that there isn't some even more secret sites, but it IS the CIA.

reports.


http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/obama-administr.html (Obama maintains Bush position in extraordinary renditon lawsuit 2/2009)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/10/feingold-slams-obama-for_n_165706.html (Feingold "slams" Obama re: extraordinary renditon decision)


That case was a golden--nay, platinum-- opportunity to avoid legal precedent saying rendition by the United States for the purposes of having someone tortured in a foreign nation is an acceptable practice for the United States of America. INSTEAD, the Obama administration once again supported the Bush position, simply picking up where Bushco had left off. In deed, I don't know of a single case on appeal so far in which the Obama administration has taken a position any different from the position Bushco had taken in the lower court.

Obama says one thing--or SEEMS to say one thing. However, in court, where it matters, where you cannot weasel--you have to take one side or another, we have no difference from Bushco, except a different lawyer's name and signature on the brief filed with the court by The United States of America.

So, who ya gonna believe, Leon Panetta, a retread from BOTH Nixon and Clinton (some feat), and now head of a CIA full of agents who are scared brainless of being hung out to dry over torture, or your own lying eyes?

this is talking about whether lawsuits can proceed, Obama says no because of State Secrets like Bush did. We really have no way of knowing whether that's true, unfortunately. It's bullshit they won't be compensated. From what I understand Canada compensated ten million to people who were taken while in Canada. Is there a way to do open trials while keeping actual sensitive info out? I don't know, I'd need to look at both the ACLU and the White House's side. However, it's not talking about 'extraordinary rendition' going forward.

Also, those articles are from Feb and the one I referenced is from April. So hopefully, unless there are sites blacker than black out there somewhere, the prisons have closed.

Now we're debating whether or not to let them off scot-free. :eyes: Only in America.

"Land of the free, and the home of the brave"? Please. Don't make me laugh. We are a nation of fools.

This country is fascist. If nothing is done about this we will remain fascist. Essentially a fascist government will have to be overthrown to achieve the change most of us want. It ain't happening.

This phony modern day Bush definition of torture is a pathetic attempt to make it ok to commit crimes and somehow get away with it.