Spain's PM-elect backs EU constitution after poll win

Another international change of policy from the election.

http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/040315123156.v9m7x1ik

Spanish prime minister-elect Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said Monday after his Socialist party's upset election victory that he wants to see an "accelerated" adoption of an EU constitution to "define a new Europe."
...
Under Nice, Spain and Poland would enjoy disproportionately large influence within the bloc with the same voting rights as EU heavyweights such as Germany, whose population is twice as large.

Aznar's conservative Popular Party (PP) resolutely insisted it would not give ground in the belief that countries such as France and Germany wanted to concentrate too much decision-making power among themselves.

With Sunday's election win, Zapatero, 43, said Spanish policy on the constitution would rotate 180 degrees.

Right there. Al Queda my ars. This is exactly what was behind all the carnage. I knew it was gonna come out. The bombing may have been perpetrated by people of brown color skin, but that is NOT who is behind these cold blooded murders. It is the usual suspects.

What was that about?

I have excepted the premise that Al Queda is CIA and has operatives high up in the organization. I believe they use events to manipulate desired political outcomes. I will go to the archives and search out some interesting reading from a few months back, and edit to add links.

I mean,...wouldn't the CIA prefer the exact opposite outcome?

n/t

They do not want any potential rivalries on this planet. They are against the EU adopting a constitution that provides for a mutual defense.

attitude towards business and politics.

The Republicans want a US economy that delivers all its wealth straight to the top. As we know from the Great Depression, that is incredibly inefficient.

Had it not been for FDR doing the right thing (shifiting wealth down) and WWII ravaging America's industrial competition, thus ensuring there was no competition for the US, the US would have become a banana republic under the exact same economic policies from the 20s which the Republicans are trying to revive under Bush.

The last thing Bush wants is a competitive Europe which would foce the US to stop shifting wealth straight to the top (and this is also why Bush wants to have wars too -- it's to destabilize the rest of the world as WWII did 60 years ago).

The article points out that the Spanish Government will reverse course on a hot issue for the EU (the drafting of a Constitution)

I have no idea what Al Q'aida, the CIA or “operatives high up in the organization” have to do with the issue here - do you perhaps suggest that Al Q'aida and/or the CIA has operatives in Zapatero's (and my) PSOE?

Please explain, because I don't understand where you're coming from and where you're going here.

I am just foiling out loud. I always question the official story. Don't fret too much, noone really takes me seriously, I am a crackpot, loon, and a conspiracy nut. My theory goes back to "Who Has the Most to Gain."

focus...

stuff about this. I have read some threads where people have suspected fishy things going on. This is news to me.

However, I for one would believe it. It's no secret that the CIA has declared war against the administration for the Plame incident. I know they have an axe to grind.

Nothing surprises me anymore.

Would you care to share?

Myth Of Al Qaeda


When George W Bush spoke before Congress after 9-11, and officially blamed a shadowy, nebulous terrorist organization called Al Qaeda for 9-11 - he was using information that was basically concocted by Western intel agencies all in on the game of setting up a fake terror threat that we could all rally behind. "Al Qaeda" is actually a division of the Western intel agencies that perpetrates their terrorist bombings in co-ordination with the New World Order operatives in the Black Ops world. "Al Qaeda" is a political convenience for the Fascist fiends now consolidating power in every major political party in the West, save an enlightened few (The US Greens, the Canadian NDP). Every overt act that this Black Ops spin off perpetrates benefits the Fascist war mongers. Indeed, if Al Qaeda didn't exist, the Fascists would have to invent it. Which, of course, they did.

How to destroy Al Qaeda? Open up the records of the Western Intel agencies, not just the crap they spew out to manipulate an ever more cowed and terrified citizenry, but all of their historic dealings dating back to when the CIA and others first founded and financed the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan. Make it known to the people who live in Islamic countries that Osama bin Laden is nothing more than an incredibly valuable CIA asset, which many Muslims already suspect (remember the anti-Osama bin Laden rallies in 2001? They held up a picture of bin Laden paired with the Sesame Street puppet Bert - the message? These people knew that bin Laden is/was an American puppet).

Y'all have to wake up. This so called "War On Terror" is nothing more than an Orwellian ploy to gradually condition citizens in the West to accept a police state and complete authoritarian control.
It is so obvious, its painful. But the neo-con Fascists know their demographics well. They know that years of anti-Muslim propaganda has taken root in the psyches of the average Westerner, and the fact that these Muslims are brown skinned, dress differently and have an unfamiliar belief system makes it easy for the neo-cons to use racism and bigotry as tools to sow the myth deeply into the culture of the West.

Yes, there are legitimate Muslim-led terrorist groups out there. But they are spread far and wide, are nationalistic, and are easily infiltrated by the agents provocateurs of "Al Qaeda" to lead them down the path of destruction and mayhem. These local groups are used and then discarded after the deed, and the terrorists the authorities then round up are usually clueless, brainwashed, local criminals who are effectively cut off from the true leadership of "Al Qaeda".

The truth is out there. It can be found. And the truth of the Myth Of Al Qaeda MUST be disseminated before its too late. With the anti-Americanism that Bushco has worked so hard to promote in the middle east, it won't be long before we have a conflagration in that region of the world. Which is exactly what the Fascists want - they can then move in and secure the oil interests while claiming their just fighting the "War On Terror". They can also help set up civil wars between warring Islamic factions (e.g. Sunnis vs. Shiites in Iraq) and then sell weapons to both sides. This is the Hegelian Dialectic. The oldest trick in the book.

When you think Al Qaeda, you should also think CIA and MI5.
Then you'll start to get it. Think about all those convenient terrorist attacks that continued to bolster the neo-con plans for world domination. Exactly when will you finally realize that nothing happens by accident in politics. There are no coincidences.

For the Love of our Western Democratic values, please research the following sites thoroughly.

http://www.geocities.com/revolution4u2000/noalqaeda.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0523/p11s02-coop.html
http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/00000006DFED.htm
http://161.58.193.170/pubs/view/chw_004_035_001.htm
http://www.livejournal.com/users/amp23/476950.html
http://theunjustmedia.com/Al-Qaeda/Homepage%20of%20Al-Qaeda.htm
http://www.fourwinds10.com/news/05-government/H-war/03-terrorism-war/2...
http://globalresearch.ca /
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO301B.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/archives/ARC308.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI303A.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI211A.html

,...whether the CIA or aQ, wouldn't you say their plot failed because it ended in a more level-headed (rather than war-mongering) goverment willing to work with the international community to resolve an international problem?

But I think just maybe expanding and fortifying the European Union could be one of them.

I suppose anything is possible but, for some reason, I am having trouble imagining the CIA/aQ working to fortify the EU rather than the US.

And I do not. They work for the Elite of the Elite.

from working for the "Elite of the Elite"? I'm not one who wants to believe in this theory because the ends doesn't justify the means. What would the "ends" be? However, it would make a great movie!

I guess I try to see the glass as "half full," and even with all our intel quirks, I would like to think they are on our side:)

millions of dollars because of anti-comeptitive behavior? Remember the GE-Marconi merger the EU nixed on the grounds it was a monopoly?

The US loves a monopoly. The EU, for now, loves competition.

.
.
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OH, I do I DO !!

Bin Laden is supposed to be the leader of this Al Qaeda . .

ONLY bin Ladens left the USA right after 911 when the rest of the country was in "lock-down"

that didn't get by my wee Canuk brain . . .

and the "switch and bait" ?

using Americans anger to fuel the BFEE's personal agenda on Saddam,

that didn't' get by me either

or a whole lot of other Canadians that have regular access to REAL news reporting !

Here is the proposed constitution, just so you lot know what all the fuss and pallaver is about.

http://europa.eu.int/futurum/constitution/index_en.htm

hello.........anyone out there?

Anyone fancy debateing the proposed EU constitution rather than tinfoil hat gibberish?

And I'm grateful for you dragging the topic back from the hijack.

As this Independent article points out at the end, it was convenient for Blair that the constitution had disappeared from the headlines:
The Spanish election might also improve the prospects of a breakthrough on the stalled EU constitution, which saw Spain and Poland pitted against France and Germany in a row over voting rights. Mr Blair would rather the issue remained in the long grass until after the general election.

As far as I can see, he's happy with the proposed constitution, but he doesn't want a debate about a referendum, when there is a significant part of Britain that would like to vote against the EU constitution, just on general anti-Europe principles.

The major change that I think it implements is the voting system - and I think the new double majority proposal is a good one. If Spain does agree to it (maybe they'll hold out for some concession on another matter?), I think Poland would be hard pressed to stand against it (the opposition to it was always said to be Spain and Poland - did any small countries have objections too?). This euobserver article says Poland's position is not 'Nice or die'.

I'd vote for the constitution; and if it did come to a British referendum, I think a majority could vote for it, if the government, and Lib Dems (do you know the SNP position?) did a concerted campaign to oppose the Conservative fear-mongering. But I'm sure Blair doesn't want that on top of everything else now.

Over all the 25 countries, approving the constitution should be possible, but will probably be difficult.
Support levels for the idea of a European Constitution vary between countries. The highest levels of support are found in Italy, Hungary, and Spain. In eleven countries more than 2/3 of the population back the idea of a European Constitution. In six countries, support is lower than 50%. However, in each of the 25 countries support for a Constitution is higher than opposition.
(From an EU poll - follow the External Link from Daily Telegraph story - the link has '|' characters, so doesn't work from DU. The Telegraph story is, of course, rabidly anti-EU).

I think from what I can vaguely remember the SNP are about the only people out there who do admit to wanting a federal Europe, something which just about anyone with any apprehension about the EU palls about and which is raised time and again by the Euro-sceptics at any opportunity to scare people off just about any EU-related scheme. So yes, I think the SNP are likely to be in favour.

As to Spain's position, I dunno what's going on too much there but I found this interesting in the Telegraph article

Seven countries are almost certainly holding a vote: Denmark, Ireland, Holland, Luxembourg, Portugal, Spain and the Czech Republic.

Now the question here is, will Spain still be holding a referendum on the matter?

Here in Britain of course the debate is on whther or not to hold a referendum. The Euro-sceptics want one, Euro-philes do not, and the reason for this is mainly that the Euro-sceptics would romp home easily in such a vote in the UK. Personally I think that if there are to be referendums on the matter then we should just go the whole hog and have an EU-wide referendum on the matter of the proposed EU constitution.

The issue is when - most likely during / after the next general elections (slated for 2008)

I think its a very important debate - particularly because I am not so certain that this constitution is a good thing. The EU as it stands is already one of the least democratic decision making bodies anywhere - witness the incredibly low turnouts to things like European elections in Britain. Most people here couldn't name one MEP, let alone tell you anything about how the system works. This isn't helped by a buerocratic procedure with very few democratic checks and balances in it. The constitution, from what I have seen of it, does little to adress legitimate concerns of many (both on the left and the right) about this issue. If anything, it is likely to increase apathy and disenfranchisment in many countries, where people will feel that decisions are being made for them, but not in their name.

This is not to say that European unity is a bad thing - I am all for it, which is one of the reasons why I am not actively opposing this constitution. But I think one has to be clear at the tradeoff - more unity at the price of democratic decision making. The problem is exascerbated by the fact that within the EU, there is no real way for these structures to be democratized, and again, this is something the constitution does not address.

V