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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 04:30 AM
Original message
STOCK MARKET WATCH, Wednesday April 21
Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Wednesday April 21, 2010

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON April 20, 2010

Dow... 11,117.06 +25.01 (+0.23%)
Nasdaq... 2,500.31 +20.20 (+0.81%)
S&P 500... 1,207.17 +9.65 (+0.81%)
Gold future... 1,145 +5.50 (+0.48%)
10-Yr Bond... 3.80 0.00 (-0.05%)
30-Year Bond 4.67 -0.02 (-0.49%)



Market Conditions During Trading Hours


Euro, Yen, Loonie, Silver and Gold






Handy Links - Market Data and News:
Economic Calendar    Marketwatch Data    Bloomberg Economic News    Yahoo! Finance    Google Finance    Bank Tracker    
Credit Union Tracker    Daily Job Cuts

Handy Links - Economic Blogs:

The Big Picture    Financial Sense    Calculated Risk    Naked Capitalism    Credit Writedowns
Brad DeLong      Bonddad    Atrios    goldmansachs666    The Stand-Up Economist

Handy Links - Government Issues:

LegitGov    Open Government    Earmark Database    USA spending.gov

Bush Administration Officials Convicted = 2
Names: David Safavian, James Fondren

Bush Administration Officials Charged = 1
Name(s): Richard Lopez Razo

Financial Sector Officials Convicted since 1/20/09 =
11









This thread contains opinions and observations. Individuals may post their experiences, inferences and opinions on this thread. However, it should not be construed as advice. It is unethical (and probably illegal) for financial recommendations to be given here.

Read more: du
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 04:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Today's Report
10:30 Crude Inventories 04/17
Briefing.com NA
Consensus NA
Prior -2.20M

http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
51. Oil settles below $84 as supplies increase
NEW YORK – Oil prices slid Wednesday, holding below $84 a barrel after the government said U.S. oil and gas supplies grew more than expected last week.

Benchmark crude for June delivery gave up 17 cents to settle at $83.68 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. In London, Brent crude added 90 cents to settle at $85.70 a barrel on the ICE futures exchange.

Prices plunged shortly after the Energy Information Administration report. Analysts said it provided more evidence that oil prices have outpaced energy demand.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oil above $84 as stocks rally, airports open
BANGKOK – Oil prices surged above $84 a barrel Wednesday in Asia as stock markets rallied on strong corporate earnings and more airports opened in Volcanic ash stricken Europe, easing fears of dampened demand for crude. ...

Also boosting sentiment in oil markets were gains in Asian stocks after Goldman Sach's first-quarter corporate profit numbers overshadowed ongoing concern about fraud charges against the investment bank. Apple Inc., meanwhile, shattered expectations with a 90 percent leap in net profit for the most recent quarter, boosting technology shares.

In other Nymex trading in May contracts, heating oil rose 1.8 cents to $2.199 a gallon and gasoline gained 0.9 cents to $2.29 a gallon. Natural gas fell 1 cent to $3.965 per 1,000 cubic feet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Big Oil Wants Its $4/gallon Summer Transfusion
but they can't even get it up to $3
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
31. Somewhere I read that it was now 'expected' to have $4/gal
after the run up in the summer of 2008. Like $140/barrel or $4/gal or $5/gal would be the new norm as the oil producers got used to that level and planned around it.

That will keep the recovery down as long as this is held over our heads.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. Asian markets rise on earnings, Europe mixed
BANGKOK – Asian stocks markets mostly shot higher Wednesday as robust U.S. earnings offered further evidence of recovery in the world's biggest economy. European shares were mixed.

Some of the region's major benchmarks were up 1.5 percent or more while oil jumped above $84 a barrel. The dollar rose against the euro and largely held gains against the yen.

Investors in Asia were buoyed by gains Tuesday on Wall Street after Goldman Sach's first-quarter corporate profit numbers overshadowed ongoing concern about fraud charges against the investment bank. Apple Inc., meanwhile, shattered expectations with a 90 percent leap in net income for the most recent quarter, boosting Asian technology shares. ...

European stocks were mixed as trading got underway. Britain's FTSE 100 was off 0.2 percent, Germany's DAX rose 0.1 percent and France's CAC-40 was down fractionally. Futures pointed to a flat open Wednesday on Wall Street. S&P futures were up 1 point, or 0.1 percent, at 1,206.40 while Dow futures were little changed.

Earlier in Asia, Japan's Nikkei 225 stock average climbed 189.37 points, or 1.7 percent, to 11,090.05 with a weaker yen giving an additional lift to exporters like auto and electronics makers.

South Korea's Kospi rose 1.7 percent to 1,747.58 while Hong Kong's Hang Seng retreated 0.5 percent to 21,510.93. Australia's benchmark gained 0.6 percent and China's Shanghai stock guage added 1.8 percent.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100421/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. SEC chief pledges better oversight of banks
WASHINGTON – The chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission on Tuesday pledged better oversight of the nation's largest banks after criticism that the agency failed to spot accounting tricks at investment bank Lehman Brothers before it collapsed.

Chairman Mary Schapiro told a congressional panel that the agency has sent letters to 19 banks seeking information about whether they are using accounting tricks that a bankruptcy examiner said masked the bank's precarious financial condition. Lehman failed in September 2008 in the largest corporate bankruptcy in U.S. history.

Schapiro, who was not with the SEC at the time, said the agency is scrutinizing Lehman's use of the accounting move, known as Repo 105, that allowed it to mask its weakness.

Her testimony follows widespread criticism that the SEC failed to properly monitor Wall Street ahead of the Great Recession, and after the agency filed civil fraud charges Friday against Goldman Sachs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100420/ap_on_bi_ge/us_sec_meltdown_wall_street
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hamerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. "Better oversight...Sent letters"
Well, I guess it's a start. Just not much of one.
hamerfan
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Consider what was normal during the Bush years.
This is a sea change. It is a start. Consider the great sweep of events following the 1929 crash. Fortunes went south among those who ruled the financial world. These events usually began with "a letter".
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. Goldman plays down SEC worries
Goldman Sachs, under mounting scrutiny and facing civil charges from the top US securities regulator, sought to reassure investors that the public rebukes have done little harm to its businesses or its relationships with clients.

Quarterly net income and revenue surged, Goldman said yesterday, driven by a "diversified business model" that showed few weak spots during the period.

Even the bank's defence of the actions that triggered the US Securities and Exchange Commission's fraud charges appeared to underline the point that inside Goldman it had been business as usual. ....

Some investors may not share the executives' confidence. The bank's shares fell more than 2 per cent in New York trading yesterday even after Goldman reported quarterly profits that exceeded analysts' expectations.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4b37db64-4cdd-11df-9977-00144feab49a.html
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Their Relationships With Clients Were Already In the Toilet
not surprising.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. Technology Stocks Gain on Apple Profit
The gain in Nasdaq-100 futures indicated the gauge may extend yesterday’s 0.5 percent rally. Futures on the S&P 500 Index rose 0.1 percent after the benchmark measure for U.S. equities yesterday surged 0.8 percent.

Apple said after the close of trading yesterday that earnings almost doubled last quarter on demand for its iPhone and Macintosh personal computer. Sales this quarter will be as high as $13.4 billion, topping the $13 billion anticipated by analysts, the company said. Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs promised “extraordinary” new products that analysts say may include an overhauled Apple TV.

Another 34 S&P 500 companies are due to report earnings today, including Altria Group, Inc., United Technologies Corp., AT&T Inc., Boeing Co. and Morgan Stanley.

Technology, Airlines

The MSCI World Index of 23 developed nations’ stocks rose 0.2 percent while the Stoxx Europe 600 Index gained 0.1 percent. Infineon Technologies AG, Europe’s second-biggest maker of semiconductors, surged 3.9 percent in Frankfurt. Ryanair Holdings Plc, the region’s largest budget airline, climbed 2.6 percent in Dublin. PSA Peugeot Citroen, Europe’s second-biggest automaker, rose 2.6 percent in Paris after forecasting “significant” operating income in the first half.

http://preview.bloomberg.com/news/2010-04-21/technology-stocks-advance-after-apple-profit-oil-rises-as-flights-resume.html
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
9. Two-Year Treasuries Fall a Third Day as Stock Gains Sap Demand for Safety
U.S. two-year Treasury notes fell for a third successive day as earnings reports that beat analyst estimates spurred a global rally in stocks and damped demand for the relative safety of government debt.

The yield on the two-year security, more sensitive to changes in the Federal Reserve’s monetary policy, rose after Goldman Sachs Group Inc. reported first-quarter earnings that almost doubled, boosting demand for higher-yielding assets. Canada’s central bank said yesterday faster-than-expected economic growth and inflation will spur rate increases. The MSCI World Index advanced 0.2 percent, extending yesterday’s 0.9 percent gain. ....

The two-year note yield climbed 2 basis points to 1.03 percent as of 10:16 a.m. in London, according to BGCantor Market Data. The benchmark 10-year note yield rose 1 basis point to 3.81 percent. The 3.625 percent security due February 2020 fell 3/32, or 94 cents per $1,000 face amount, to 98 16/32. ....

The Mortgage Bankers Association will release its mortgage application index for the week ended April 16 later today. The Washington-based group reported last week that the index decreased 9.6 percent in the week ended April 9.

Treasury 10-year yields may jump to 4.5 percent if they break through so-called resistance at 4 percent, according to Daiwa SB Investments Ltd., citing trading patterns. ....

The U.S. government will next week sell $42 billion in two- year notes, $41 billion in five-year securities, $32 billion in debt maturing in seven years and $10 billion in five-year Treasury Inflation Protected Securities, according to Ward McCarthy, chief financial economist at Jefferies & Co. Inc. in New York. The firm is one of the 18 primary dealers that are required to bid at Treasury auctions.

http://preview.bloomberg.com/news/2010-04-21/treasuries-heading-for-first-weekly-loss-in-april-as-global-stocks-advance.html



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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. Goldman, Banks Step Up Donations, Lobbying Over New Financial Regulations
The nation’s largest banks are pumping more money into the battle over the rewriting of the rules of finance as legislation heads to a vote in the Senate as early as this week.

Six of the top 10 U.S. banks by assets, including Goldman Sachs Group Inc., JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Morgan Stanley, ramped up donations to lawmakers from their political action committees in the last month, according to reports filed for yesterday’s Federal Election Commission deadline.

Goldman, Bank of America Corp. and U.S. Bancorp were among seven banks that increased the amount spent on lobbying during the first three months of the year, compared with the same period in 2009, separate reports filed with Congress showed. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce doubled its lobbying spending in the first quarter. ....

Lawmakers are considering legislation that would set up a mechanism to unwind firms whose failure would threaten the financial system, create a consumer-protection bureau, and bolster oversight of derivatives. The Senate may take up its bill as early as this week and would have to meld it with a House-passed version. ....

Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, Morgan Stanley and Citigroup Inc., all based in New York, San Francisco-based Wells Fargo & Co. and Pittsburgh-based PNC Financial Services Group Inc. each donated more to federal candidates in March than in the previous two months combined.

http://preview.bloomberg.com/news/2010-04-21/goldman-banks-step-up-donations-lobbying-over-new-financial-regulations.html
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Farrell: Wall Street’s 8 Lobbying Goals
Edited on Wed Apr-21-10 05:11 AM by ozymandius
Posted at The Big Picture:

.....
He writes that this “signals a resurgence of unregulated free market Reaganomics capitalism, the conservative ideology that killed Glass-Steagall in 1999 creating too-big-to-fail banks, setting the stage for the 2008 meltdown.”

But its much worse than that. What Wall Street wants is to water down reform so it can, according to Farrell, pursue these 8 goals:
(1) evade securities laws
(2) avoid taxes
(3) minimize capital requirements
(4) increase leverage
(5) hide speculative risks
(6) maximize short-term profits
(7) avoid stockholder disclosures, and
(8) manipulate regulators.
More at link...
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. We Don't Always Get What We Want
and if we are lucky, they get what they deserve...
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
45. These people must have burn marks resembling burners on a hot stove on both hands
both feet, and many other body parts. At some point a brain circuit should kick in that says, "Ow, that hurts! I won't do that again." Somebody get these people an MRI, stat.
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
46. Forgot #9: Collect multi-million $ bonuses, even after #1-#8 cause global catastrophe.
Regarding the hot stove analogy . . . people with the rare condition congenital analgesia (they can't feel pain) have difficulty learning not to lean on a hot stove. Wall Street executives have the financial version of this disorder. We should help them by making sure they feel the pain!
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Terrorists Who Destroyed Our Economy Will Pay $0 in Taxes, Get $33B in Refunds
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25253.htm



You and I are working our asses off, paying 30% of our limited income in taxes. Not the banks that triggered the financial crisis.

By David DeGraw
Journalist David DeGraw has put together a devastating report detailing how Wall Street continues to pillage the economy with the government's help. "The staggering level of theft continues unabated," writes DeGraw. "Our future is going up in flames and our government isn’t even making the slightest effort to put out the fire. In fact, they are purposely pouring gasoline all over it." DeGraw's investigation is a follow up to his previous report The Economic Elite Vs. The People of the United States of America

April 19, 2010 "Amped Status" -- The first thing people need to understand is that the economic crash wasn’t a crash for the people who caused it. In fact, these financial terrorists are now doing better than ever. In a recent report, titled “Social Inequality in America: Widening Income Disparities,” more evidence of the unprecedented transfer of wealth was revealed:

“As of late 2009, the number of billionaires soared from 793 to 1,011, and their total fortunes from $2.4 trillion to $3.6 trillion…. Despite the crisis, the list of billionaires has grown by 218 people and their aggregate capital has expanded by 50%. This may seem paradoxical, but only at first glance. This result was predictable, if we recall how governments all over the world have dealt with the economic crisis.”

The inequality of wealth in the United States between the economic top 0.5% and the remaining 99.5% of the population is now at an all-time high. The economic top 1% of the population now controls a record 70% of all financial assets. The point here is that while the economic crisis has been devastating for 99% of America, the Wall Street elite are awash in record breaking profits. The most profitable firm in Wall Street history, Goldman Sachs, just had their most profitable quarter in their 140-year history and Wall Street firms issued an all-time record breaking amount in bonuses.

All of this is occurring after giving these firms $14 TRILLION in taxpayer support - that works out to be $46,662 of your hard-earned money. That’s $46,662 for every man, woman and child in this country. If you have a family of four, sorry, your future just got robbed and you and your children just lost $186,648!

So what are all these firms doing with these record-breaking profits? Are they returning them into the tax system in which they came from, the tax system that was looted just to keep their scam running?

No!

Let’s start with Wells Fargo. After being bailed out with our money in 2008, their top five executives DOUBLED their compensation and each one of them made over $11 million in 2009. Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf made off with a cool $21.3 million last year.

And now comes news that Bank of America and Wells Fargo will pay zero, yes ZERO in federal taxes for 2009. Bank of America will net a $3.6 BILLION benefit from the federal government in 2009. Wells Fargo, after $8 BILLION in earnings for 2009, will net $4 BILLION from the federal government.

So you and I are working our asses off just to make ends meet, paying 30% of our limited income in taxes, and gizillionaire John Stumpf’s company is paying ZERO in taxes so that he can personally swipe another $21.3 million of tax payer funds.

Al Capone is a dime store thief compared to this guy!

Well, to be fair, Mr. Stumpf is just a small-timer himself in this all-time greatest heist.

JP Morgan Chase made $12 BILLION in profit in 2009, as a direct result of our tax money - yes, I need to keep repeating this fact. These are profits that would not exist if it weren’t for our tax dollars.

It’s also important to point out that this is just the level of theft that has already occurred. However, as I also can’t stress enough, the theft still continues without any let-up.

Now comes news that JP Morgan is on the verge of getting a $1.4 BILLION tax refund! Yes, you heard me right, a $1.4 BILLION TAX REFUND. But JP is not alone in this latest theft. In total, the financial terrorists are due to receive $33 BILLION IN TAX REFUNDS!

Do you comprehend how depraved it is to give these people another $33 billion in tax refunds? I assume that they’re thinking that after stealing $14 TRILLION, another $33 billion really isn’t all that much. After all, last year, Goldman Sachs, the most profitable firm Wall Street history, only paid 1% in taxes, so what’s another $33 billion kickback among friends?

Let’s be clear about this latest $33 billion of which the US tax system is being robbed. What could we do with $33 billion?

For one, we could put over one million unemployed people back to work and pay them the average national median wage for the next year. Add the record-breaking $150 billion in bonuses (our tax money) that Wall Street handed out this past year to the $33 billion and guess what? We can now put over six million people back to work making the average annual wage! Do you think that would stimulate the economy? Green shots galore.

But why do that? Jamie Dimon needs another new 40,000 square foot mansion and Goldman Sachs needs to upgrade their fleet of luxury jets filled with the finest wine, champagne, cigars and hot tubs.

Maybe we could use that $33 billion to save some of the hundreds of schools that are being forced to close this year due to devastating State budget deficits. Or maybe pay the thousands of teachers who just found out that their jobs have been cut. How about using that money to feed the 50% of US children who need to use food stamps during their childhood to eat? How about using it to give a raise to the 15 million US workers who work 40 hours or more a week and still fall below the poverty line.

Wait, I know, how about helping the millions of Americans who have been foreclosed upon due to JP Morgan’s predatory lending schemes and illegal subprime “liar’s loans.”

And don’t even get me started again on how we can better use the $14 TRILLION that Wall Street made off with.

People of the United States to Obama: Hello! This is happening on your watch!

Change We Can Believe In!

Oh, but wait… it gets even better. This just in from the Roosevelt Institute:

De facto bailout for Freddie and Frannie

Did the Fed and the Treasury orchestrate a de facto bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — at public expense and sans Congressional approval? John Hussman thinks so. He provides a detailed account of just how 1.5 trillion dollars got diverted to Freddie and Fannie — money that we can all kiss goodbye. American taxpayers, it seems, have gotten the middle finger once again.

And then in comes this little known, highly underreported news item: U.S. Taxpayers on Hook for $5 Trillion of Fannie, Freddie Debt

“After years of winks and nods, there’s no doubt that Fannie and Freddie now enjoy an explicit guarantee, according to most observers. The U.S. government placed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in conservatorship in September 2008: ‘This means that the U.S. Taxpayer now stands behind $5 trillion of GSE debt,’ according to the Congressional Research Service.”

Hank “Pentagon-Sachs” Paulson’s right-hand man Tim Geithner, now Obama’s hand-picked Treasury Secretary and point man for the continued looting, recently assured his friends on the Financial Services Committee: “We will do everything necessary to ensure these institutions have the capital they need to meet their commitments.” Geithner then acknowledged that US taxpayers will take “very substantial” losses on this bailout.

Yep, Obama’s Chief-of-Theft, Rahm “Freddie Mac Daddy” Emanuel’s former company now has unlimited ability to rob taxpayer money and is making off with $5 TRILLION. And I thought Cheney’s Halliburton was as bad as it could get.

Yes We Can… Get Robbed Even More!

But don’t worry, if you thought the past two years were bad, the history books will recall them as a walk in the park compared to what is coming our way. You don’t have trillions looted from the economy and continue to just keep going about your life business as usual. I wish I was wrong, and I wish this was just my opinion, but facts are facts and every societal and economic indicator says things are going to get worse, MUCH WORSE.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Goldman Sachs: Too Big To Obey The Law
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25256.htm

By Simon Johnson, co-author of 13 Bankers.

April 19, 2010 " Baseline Scenario" -- On a short-term tactical basis, Goldman Sachs clearly has little to fear. It has relatively deep pockets and will fight the securities “Fab” allegations tooth and nail; resolving that case, through all the appeals stages, will take many years. Friday’s announcement had a significant negative impact on the market perception of Goldman’s franchise value – partly because what they are accused of doing to unsuspecting customers is so disgusting. But, as a Bank of America analyst (Guy Mozkowski) points out this morning, the dollar amount of this specific allegation is small relative to Goldman’s overall business and – frankly – Goldman’s market position is so strong that most customers feel a lack of plausible alternatives.

The main action, obviously, is in the potential widening of the investigation (good articles in the WSJ today, but behind their paywall). This is likely to include more Goldman deals as well as other major banks, most of which are generally presumed to have engaged in at least roughly parallel activities – although the precise degree of nondisclosure for adverse material information presumably varied. Two congressmen have reasonably already drawn the link to the AIG bailout (how much of that was made necessary by fundamentally fraudulent transactions?), Gordon Brown is piling on (a regulatory sheep trying to squeeze into wolf’s clothing for election day on May 6), and the German government would dearly love to blame the governance problems in its own banks (e.g., IKB) on someone else.

But as the White House surveys the battlefield this morning and considers how best to press home the advantage, one major fact dominates. Any pursuit of Goldman and others through our legal system increases uncertainty and could even cause a political run on the bank – through politicians and class action lawsuits piling on.

And, as no doubt Jamie Dimon (the articulate and very well connected head of JP Morgan Chase) already told Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner over the weekend, if we “demonize” our big banks in this fashion, it will undermine our economic recovery and could weaken financial stability around the world.

Dimon’s points are valid, given our financial structure – this is exactly what makes him so very dangerous. Our biggest banks, in effect, have become too big to be held accountable before the law.

On a more positive note, the administration continues to wake from its deep slumber on banking matters, at least at some level. As Michael Barr said recently to the New York Times,

“The intensity, ferocity and the ugliness of the lobbying in the financial sector — it’s gotten worse. It’s more intense.”

This is exactly in line with what we say in 13 Bankers – just take a look at the introduction (free), and you’ll see why our concerns about “The Wall Street Takeover and the Next Financial Meltdown” have grabbed attention in Mr. Barr’s part of official Washington.

But at the very top of the White House there is still a remaining illusion – or there was in the middle of last week – that big banks are not overly powerful politically. “Savvy businessmen” is President Obama’s most unfortunate recent phrase – he was talking about Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein (head of Goldman). After all, some reason, auto dealers are at least as powerful as auto makers – so if we break up our largest banks, the resulting financial lobby could be even stronger.

But this misses the key point, which Senator Kaufman will no doubt be hammering home this week: There is fraud at the heart of Wall Street.

And we can only hold firms accountable, in both political and legal terms, if they are not too big.

It is much harder to sue a big bank and win; ask your favorite lawyer about this. Big banks can more easily hold onto their customers despite so obviously treating them as cannon fodder (take this up with the people who manage your retirement funds). Big banks spend crazy amounts on political lobbying – even right after being saved by the government (chapter and verse on this in 13 Bankers.)

When you really do want to take on megabanks through the courts – and have found the right legal theory and compelling lines of enquiry – they will threaten to collapse or just contract credit.


No auto dealer has this power. No Savings and Loan could ultimately stand against the force of law – roughly 2,000 S&Ls went out of business and around 1,000 people ended up in jail after the rampant financial fraud of the 1980s.

We should not exaggerate the extent to which we really have equality before the law in the United States. Still, the behavior and de facto immunity of the biggest banks is out of control.

These huge banks will behave better only when and if their executives face credible criminal penalties. This simply cannot happen while these banks are anywhere near their current size.

Fortunately there is precisely zero evidence that we need banks anywhere near their current size – we document this at length in 13 Bankers (in fact, this was a major motivation for writing the book).

Break up the big banks before they do even more damage.


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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. I guess all those big "banks" are too big to pay taxes too. n/t
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. Is Goldman’s Hardball Stance a Big Mistake?
Goldman pointed avoided discussing its pending SEC lawsuit directly on its conference call earlier today, but other reports suggest it is taking an even more pugnacious stance than its initial press released indicated. From Politico:

Goldman’s crisis strategy…is already clear: An attempt to discredit the Securities and Exchange Commission by painting the case as tainted by politics because it was announced just as President Barack Obama was ramping up his push for financial regulatory reform, including a planned trip to New York on Thursday.

“The charges were brought in a manner calculated to achieve maximum impact at point of penetration,” a Goldman executive said.
Yves here. It’s important to keep in mind that this is not the only line of defense the firm is taking (for instance, predictably, it is laying the groundwork to distance itself from Fabrice Tourre, the Goldman employee singled out in the complaint). Nevertheless, the problem with this line of thinking is twofold. First, even if the Obama Administration ramped this case into the foreground at a politically expedient time, it does not disprove the idea that the underlying charges may have merit. The fact that the UK’s FSA has launched a probe into Goldman conduct, and SIGTARP is looking into Goldman’s Abacus trades with AIG. ....

When in doubt, the best policy to adopt when you have crossed a regulator is to show your belly. As reader MindtheGAAP noted:
Goldman, in its arrogance, is making things much more difficult for itself in the way it’s handling the issue.

Rule #1: NEVER get into a pissing match with your regulator. EVER!! The banks managed to co-opt and neuter the regulators (at least until now, perhaps), but those are very different things than just pissing them off.

Rule #2: NEVER get into a pissing match with your regulator when you know you’ve done–at a bare minimum–a lot of very bordeerline shady things for over a decade, and your entire business model is based on continuing to do those shady things for the indefinite future

Rule #3: NEVER get into a pissing match with your regulator when the public hates your guts.
More at Naked Capitalism
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Love It! Yves Smith is Woman of the Year!
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
23.  Goldman's Travails: Don't get your hopes up By Mike Whitney
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25252.htm

Schadenfreude. The pleasure derived from watching someone else suffer. It's human nature and it's what's what's driving the Goldman pile-on. SEC Enforcement director Robert Khuzami had barely uttered his statement on Friday, before the the yelps of joy arose from every corner of the country. "Fraud!" What a happy noise. Revenge is sweet. Suddenly the prospect of subpoenas, indictments, and long prison sentences didn't seem so remote. But don't get your hopes up. Goldman was picked for a reason, and that reason has nothing to do with its shady business transactions. It's politics.

Don't get me wrong; Goldman is guilty as hell. They slapped together a Kamikaze CDO that was designed to blow up, and then they schluffed it off on their clients without filling them in on the details. It's called "withholding material information", and its no-no. It's like wrapping smelly fish in yesterday's paper and pawning it off as fresh-caught Blackmouth. You can't do that. According to former regulator William Black, "Goldman did not just withhold information, they told people, 'Hey, the investment decisions are being made by experts who would only choose good quality stuff', when in fact, the stuff that was put in was chosen because it was considered the most likely to suffer near-term downgrades."

So Goldman was minting its own roadside bombs and getting input from notorious hedge fund short-seller, John Paulson, who planned to bet against the same CDO. But what's most shocking, is that Goldman was caught schtuping its own clients just to make a buck. That's going to haunt them for a very long time. Trust is important, even on Wall Street. Goldman's reputation is shot.

Here's a statement from Goldman: "Although Goldman Sachs held various positions in residential mortgage-related products in 2007, our short positions were not a 'bet against our clients.'"

Yikes. This worse than I thought. Are they really going to use the "I didn't know the gun was loaded" defense?

Here's a clip from an article by Gretchen Morgenson and Louise Story in the New York Times which explains what Goldman was up to:

"Goldman and other firms eventually used the C.D.O.’s to place unusually large negative bets that were not mainly for hedging purposes, and investors and industry experts say that put the firms at odds with their own clients’ interests.

“The simultaneous selling of securities to customers and shorting them because they believed they were going to default is the most cynical use of credit information that I have ever seen,” said Sylvain R. Raynes, an expert in structured finance at R & R Consulting in New York. “When you buy protection against an event that you have a hand in causing, you are buying fire insurance on someone else’s house and then committing arson".....

In early 2005, a group of prominent traders met at Deutsche Bank’s office in New York and drew up a new system, called Pay as You Go. This meant the insurance for those betting against mortgages would pay out more quickly....Other changes also increased the likelihood that investors would suffer losses if the mortgage market tanked.

Banks also set up ever more complex deals that favored those betting against C.D.O.’s.....At Goldman, Mr. Egol structured some Abacus deals in a way that enabled those betting on a mortgage-market collapse to multiply the value of their bets, to as much as six or seven times the face value of those C.D.O.’s. When the mortgage market tumbled, this meant bigger profits for Goldman and other short sellers — and bigger losses for other investors." ("Banks Bundled Bad Debt, Bet Against It and Won", Gretchen Morgenson and Louise Story, New York Times)

That sums it up, doesn't it? Goldman is a serial arsonist. Here's a passage from the Goldman Sales Primer:

Rule #1--Burn the client

Rule#2--Laugh all the way to the bank

Rule#3--Deny everything.

Of course, when the SEC lowered the boom on Friday, everyone at CNBC (the business channel) went into mourning. The moaning and groaning persisted all day. All the cliches about "intrusive government" and the "chilling" effect this would have on the markets, were dusted off and reiterated with religious solemnity. Jim Cramer, "Mad Money's" blabbering fuckhead , defended Goldman saying the victims should have known what was going on. "Caveat emptor", proclaimed Cramer. Buyer beware! If you get reamed, it's your fault. Fortunately, the SEC doesn't see it that way. Goldman's defrauded its clients and now Goldman must pay. Expect a mile-long oil-slick of well-dressed lawyers winding-away from Goldman's downtown offices on Monday.

Fabrice Tourre, is the Goldman vice president who is at the center of the controversy. He describes himself as the "fabulous Fab", and appears to be a likable goofball who performed his duties like he was playing a video game. He was main engineer of the Frankenstein CDO that did all the damage. Unfortunately, for fabulous Fab, he left behind a damning paper-trail of what he was up to. Here's the e mail that grabbed the attention of the SEC:

"More and more leverage in the system, The whole building is about to collapse anytime now...Only potential survivor, the fabulous Fab...standing in the middle of all these complex, highly leveraged, exotic trades he created without necessarily understanding all of the implications of those monstrosities!!!"


Right. So it's all fun-and-games for V.P. Numskull. At least this leaves open the "insanity defense". Keep in mind, these are supposed to be "the smartest guys in the room". Small room. Here's a clip from the Wall Street Journal:

"Early in the year, Mr. Tourre—began structuring Abacus, a new structured product to be made up of a collection of risky home loans.....

Dozens of deals like Abacus were packaged over the course of several years, said people familiar with the matter. Structured products had become so successful, in fact, that in 2008, Mr. Tourre moved to the firm's London office to help launch the same business in Europe." ("Trader Seized on Mortgage-Security Boom" Wall Street Journal)

Sure, screwing people is a "growth industry". And a big organization like Goldman has a reservoir full of snakeoil, so it doesn't have to worry about running-low on reserves. Just stitch-together a bunch of junk securities, dress them up in sequins and gold-lame', dump them off on investors, and rake in big profits when the ship sinks. Wash, rinse, repeat. Tourre knew his job and did it well. The fault doesn't lie with him. This goes all the way to the top, CEO Lloyd Blankfein, the man in the wheelhouse directing traffic. That's where the buck stops.

But don't count your chickens too soon. This whole matter smacks of politics bigtime. Obama probably just wants to push his financial reform bill across the finish line and is beating up on Goldman to get the public fired up. In fact, that's probably what it is; just a bit of political step-dancing to build support for his agenda. Might as well put away those orange jumpsuits for now. It's all theater.
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
47. This could be smart for Obama. Will the Republicans and Teabaggers rise to defend Goldman?
You know they want to. But how can you stand next to Jack the Ripper and say, "I'm on his side."???
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 08:01 AM
Original message
A Finance Overhaul Fight Draws a Swarm of Lobbyists
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25271.htm

Assessing the battle to overhaul the nation's financial regulations recently, Jamie Dimon, the chief executive of JPMorgan Chase, left no doubt about the consequences if Congress cracked down on his bank's immense business in derivatives.

"It will be negative," he said. "Depending on the real detail, it could be $700 million or a couple billion dollars."

With so much money at stake, it is not surprising that more than 1,500 lobbyists, executives, bankers and others have made their way to the Senate committee that on Wednesday will take up legislation to rein in derivatives, the complex securities at the heart of the financial crisis, the billion-dollar bank bailouts and the fraud case filed last week against Goldman Sachs.

The forum for all this attention is not the usual banking and financial services committees, but rather the Senate Agriculture Committee, a group more accustomed to dealing with farm subsidies and national forest boundaries than with the more obscure corners of Wall Street.

A main weapon being wielded to fight the battle, of course, is money. Agriculture Committee members have received $22.8 million in this election cycle from people and organizations affiliated with financial, insurance and real estate companies - two and a half times what they received from agricultural donors, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

Much of that lobbying has centered on Senator Blanche Lincoln, the Arkansas Democrat who is the committee's chairwoman and who last week introduced the bill that would prevent banks from trading derivatives directly.

The daughter of a sixth-generation rice farmer, she has found herself navigating a dangerous channel between Wall Street firms, which raised $60,000 at two fund-raisers for her re-election campaign so far this year, and her constituents, many of whom want a crackdown on the speculation that led to the financial crisis.

Other committee members, on both sides of the aisle, also have reaped donations from people and companies in the derivatives business, including Senator Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, who is the committee's ranking Republican member; Kent Conrad, the North Dakota Democrat; and Charles E. Grassley, the Iowa Republican.

The committee will be the main arena for the derivatives fight for reasons dating to an era when farming was more important to the nation's economy than finance. In their simplest form, derivatives can provide financial protection on the value of an investment or commodity. For example, by putting up a relatively small amount of money, a farmer could buy a derivative known as a forward or futures contract that would guarantee a set price for crops and thereby guard against ruinous price swings between planting and harvest.

But the most esoteric derivatives - which also are the most profitable for banks to create and trade - have little economic purpose other than to let investors place financial bets, critics say.

A more complex type of derivative helped to inflate the housing bubble in recent years, as Wall Street repackaged high-risk mortgages into securities that speculators could use to bet on the direction of the housing market. Financial institutions earned millions of dollars in fees for creating the securities. But many of the derivatives became worthless when foreclosures skyrocketed, leading to billions of dollars of losses - and taxpayer bailouts - at the banks and insurance companies that owned them.

Now, these obscure and largely unregulated securities - more than $600 trillion of which are tucked into investors' portfolios, according to the Treasury Department - are at the center of the fight over financial reform led by the Obama administration.

"The best that we can do for the American people is to put in place rules that will prevent firms from taking this risk again, make sure we protect the taxpayer, bring derivatives out of the dark - that's what we can do, " said Timothy F. Geithner, the Treasury secretary.

The lobbying is not just coming from Wall Street. Manufacturers, airlines and other industries, which use derivatives to control their business and foreign currency costs, worry that an important means of protecting their assets could be curtailed by Mrs. Lincoln's bill.

"I think a lot of members of Congress are just getting up to speed on how these markets work," said Paul Cicio, who is president of the Industrial Energy Consumers of America, which represents an array of industries like fertilizers and chemicals. He said he worried that the lobbying prowess and financial resources of Wall Street firms, even when operating in the unusual environs of the agriculture committee, had the potential to outmuscle their opponents, which want greater regulation.

"Of course I'm going to be concerned, because they are big-money companies," and derivatives make up substantial portions of their profit margins, he said. "But this is incredibly important, and it's important to get it right."

On Friday, Mrs. Lincoln introduced a derivatives bill that seemed intended to show that she could be hard-nosed with Wall Street yet accommodating to Arkansas constituents, ranging from Wal-Mart to small community banks, which have a big interest in the derivative fight.

Small-town bankers in Arkansas and elsewhere want to regulate derivative speculation because they believe widespread betting on home mortgages led to bank failures and pushed up the cost of federal deposit insurance for all banks.

The derivatives bill, which is expected to be folded into the sweeping overhaul of the nation's banking system, would also require most derivatives trades to be routed through a third party, known as a clearing agent. That would provide each of the parties a guarantee that they would be paid if the other party defaulted or went out of business. The bill would also require most derivatives to be traded on an open exchange.

Currently, the only way to trade many derivatives is to call up various dealers and ask for the price at which they are willing to buy or sell. The securities dealer profits from the difference between the prices at which it buys from one party and sells to another. Investors rarely, if ever, see details on the other side of the trade. Wall Street has signaled that it can live with a clearinghouse approach, but it is strongly opposed to exchange trading of derivatives, which would introduce price competition and lower the profits.

Wall Street bankers were stunned by the most aggressive portion of Ms. Lincoln's bill, one that is opposed even by the Obama administration. That proposal would essentially ban banks from being dealers in swaps or other derivatives by taking away their access to federal deposit insurance and their ability to borrow from the Federal Reserve if they kept those businesses.

Mrs. Lincoln, who is facing a tough primary challenge in May to get to the general election in November, said in an interview that she was not sure why the administration did not fully agree with her derivatives approach.

"The people of Arkansas never again want to have to foot the bill for what happens on Wall Street," she said. "If banks want to be in that kind of risky business, they should have to separate it off in a way that lowers the systemic risk."
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
14. Morning, Ozy
I now have a newer car. The Younger Kid drove it back from DC yesterday. Now I can get on a highway again.

It's rather terrifying, when you suddenly have something you'd hate to lose....and haven't had for a long time.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Congratulations on the new ride!
Edited on Wed Apr-21-10 05:15 AM by ozymandius
:woohoo: I felt the same when I got my new used car about three years ago. I know that your old Saturn was having fits but remarkably fit enough to get going during the blistering cold you experience in your area.

And good morning. :donut: :donut: :donut:
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. The Saturn Runs Better in the Cold
The engine runs hot, and the cooling doesn't cool unless the vehicle is actually moving at a reasonable rate of speed so that air is flowing over the engine--the fan is undersized and only comes on when the heat pegs out. So in the winter, Mother Nature keeps the engine within operating range...

I'm keeping the Saturn for the paper route and emergencies...belt and suspenders, when I can manage it.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. Morning, Demeter -- and Ozy and UIA and DRDU and ALL!
I know the feeling -- you've done without for so long and become accustomed to it, and then suddenly there it is, and it becomes almost precious, and you beomce protective and defensive. It's unsettling. Happy trails to you and your new wheels!


Update on Miss Mattie -- She's doing even better this morning, moving around a little more sprightly and the swelling continues to go down on her nose and lower jaw. She's getting her little pointy nose back! And she ate a crunchy "cookie" this morning, so that must mean she's not in so much pain that she can't chew hard things. Another good sign. We're hoping to reintroduce her to the rest of the "pack" later today, if they aren't too rowdy with her and/or make her too rowdy with them! She's a bit of a friendly bully at times, breaking up their play and keeping them in line, so I don't want to put her in the position of having to/wanting to be 100% of her old self when she's not quite up to it. So we'll see how it goes.

And now the day job calls. The software conversion from hell struck again yesterday with a scheduling snafu that assigned me more work than I'm supposed to have. I may or may not finish it.

And, on top of everything else, I found out late last night that the agency I work through (but not for) may in fact be in violation of the employee/indy contractor rules. Maybe they are, and maybe they aren't, but at least one government department is looking into it. So we'll see. Personally, I like my status just the way it is, though it would be nice if they'd pay us better. . . . .

Oh yes, and don't forget to boycott Arizona!


Tansy Gold

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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Does that mean we can't talk to people in Arizona too?
Give Miss Mattie a belly rub for me.

:hi:
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. LOL
Yeah, you can talk to us, if you talk nice! :hi:

Miss Mattie is getting plenty of belly rubs, and I'll be sure to name one or more after you, Doc!


TG
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Happy to hear about Miss Mattie's ongoing recovery! n/t
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burf Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. Good morning to Tansy and all
Good to hear Ms Mattie is doing well. May she have a swift and complete recovery. Please give her a hug for me and Mr Max. He was a almost 10 year old Lab mix who crossed the Rainbow Bridge yesterday afternoon. A tumor was found and it was doubtful a good outcome could be achieved, he was put to sleep.

Today is the first day here on the farm that I got up, went down to start the coffee pot and was not greeted by a dog at the bottom of the stairs. Its gonna take some time to get used to that.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Oh, burf, many many many hugs to you!
And a big hug to Miss Mattie from Mr. Max. She wishes him safe passage.


When we lost our beloved Gibson in August '04, it was the first day in over 35 years that my husband and I didn't have a dog. I know how you feel. And when it became obvious that my husband didn't have long either, I brought him home to be with Mattie and Chiquita. I will never forget that his last coherent words were, "SHUT UP, MATTIE!" (She barks. A lot.)


:cry: and :hug: -- and go get another dog. There's one (or more!) that needs you.



Tansy
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. May You Find Healing and a New Best Friend Soon
Hardest thing I've ever done.

Never had to deal with snake bite, either, and I'll leave that to the Intrepid Tansy Gold, next President of whatever is left of these here formerly United States.

Can you run for President if your state is boycotted?
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. She has to prove she wasn't born in Kenya, now.
Arizona done been workin' on anti-Obama laws. You gotta show your birth certificate to get on the ballot. What's funny is John McCain really wasn't born in the USA. His parents were in the Navy and stationed in Panama.

And as to dogs, you guys are making me tear up here. Our dog, Linzy (we simplified the spelling because dogs can't spell very well), passed away about eight years ago now. He got so old he couldn't walk anymore. I still miss him whenever we have pizza. I get to the crust and don't know what to do with it. I used to just toss it up in the air and it would vanish.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Them are pizza bones, TC
Like I told burf, there's a dog out there just waitin' for you, TC. Don't make him/her wait any longer.



Miss Mattie tried to chase a bird in the yard this morning. When she's feelin' herself, she bounds after 'em, like a cheetah or somethin'. She only made a couple bounds this morning, but she's gettin' there. Thing is, we have no idea how old she is. probably at least 8, maybe 12? Who knows? She's not tellin', neither.


TG
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. ah, I'm so sorry, burf
:grouphug:
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
48. I am so sorry

Losing one of our pets, is like losing a family member. It is sad. I know how you are feeling.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. Burf, you have my heartfelt sympathies.
I encourage you, as others here have, to remember that a new friend is waiting to meet you when you are ready.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
52. It's amazing how intertwined they get with your life.
But, cheer up. The Fudd and Stoli were there to greet him.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. Why are we boycotting Arizona?
And doesn't that put you on the horns of a dilemma?
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. We are boycotting Arizona because its legislature is about to pass
an anti-dark-skinned-people law. Anyone can be forced at any time to produce documents showing that they have a legal right to be where they are. This is not of course directed at furriners from north of the border because after all they're presumed to be white and wealthy enough to spend part of the year here and spend some of their money here. This law is a racist ploy to target, harrass, arrest, and basically make miserable anyone who looks like they might be "illegal" from south of the border.

NO PERSON IS ILLEGAL.



Tansy Gold, who lives here and is boycotting anyway.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. Ah. That's Dumb. Okay--no Arizona for Me
Sorry Tansy, will have to reschedule...
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. It's like the Cherokee say--we've had a bad immigration problem here . . . since 1492.
Didn't we win Arizona from Mexico in a poker game in 1847? The Mexicans lived in Apache Junction before the Murricans. There might have been others before that, but I can't remember who.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
53. The saddest part is........
They found a legislature dumber than Florida's. And that's dumb.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:27 AM
Response to Original message
19. Debt: 04/19/2010 12,863,049,415,216.38 (DOWN 14,664,890,582.46) (Mon)
(Down a good bit. Good morning.)

(Debt under Obama seems to jump up big then drop slowly maybe up a little and down a little for days--repeat.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 8,370,106,355,832.40 + 4,492,943,059,383.98
DOWN 17,215,897,730.16 + UP 2,551,007,147.70

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 309-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.24 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.71, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 13 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 309,101,531 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 04/09/2010 15:49 -> 309,034,742
Currently, each of these Americans owe $41,614.32.
A family of three owes $124,842.95. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 22 reports in the last 30 to 31 days.
The average for the last 22 reports is 9,182,258,532.26.
The average for the last 30 days would be 6,733,656,256.99.
The average for the last 31 days would be 6,516,441,539.02.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 137 reports in 201 days of FY2010 averaging 6.96B$ per report, 4.74B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 1,007 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 14.2 and 19.4T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
04/19/2010 12,863,049,415,216.38 BHO (UP 2,236,172,366,303.30 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +0,953,220,411,704.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
Endof10 +1,730,972,389,413.83 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Linear Projection

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
03/30/2010 +000,146,146,107.03 ------------********
03/31/2010 +089,964,337,654.53 ------------**********
04/01/2010 +004,832,827,050.45 ------------*********
04/02/2010 -000,783,098,135.53 ---
04/05/2010 +021,628,544,775.26 ------------********** Mon
04/06/2010 +000,246,106,716.91 ------------********
04/07/2010 +000,926,408,143.83 ------------********
04/08/2010 +030,863,719,709.59 ------------**********
04/09/2010 -000,215,194,285.06 ---
04/12/2010 -000,193,173,374.30 --- Mon
04/13/2010 -000,086,542,536.22 ----
04/14/2010 +000,857,281,039.39 ------------********
04/15/2010 +039,328,943,525.65 ------------**********
04/16/2010 -000,121,400,113.90 ---
04/19/2010 -017,215,897,730.16 - Mon

170,179,008,547.47 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
DUer primer on National debt

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4350173&mesg_id=4350197
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
50. Debt: 04/20/2010 12,871,255,665,556.84 (UP 8,206,250,340.46) (Tue)
(Up a little. Good day.)

(Debt under Obama seems to jump up big then drop slowly maybe up a little and down a little for days--repeat.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 8,370,455,550,588.61 + 4,500,800,114,968.23
UP 349,194,756.21 + UP 7,857,055,584.25

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 309-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.24 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.71, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 13 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 309,108,177 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 04/09/2010 15:49 -> 309,034,742
Currently, each of these Americans owe $41,639.97.
A family of three owes $124,919.91. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 23 reports in the last 30 to 32 days.
The average for the last 23 reports is 9,139,823,393.49.
The average for the last 30 days would be 7,007,197,935.01.
The average for the last 32 days would be 6,569,248,064.07.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 138 reports in 202 days of FY2010 averaging 6.97B$ per report, 4.76B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 1,006 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 14.3 and 19.5T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
04/20/2010 12,871,255,665,556.84 BHO (UP 2,244,378,616,643.76 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +0,961,426,662,045.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
Endof10 +1,737,231,344,784.47 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Linear Projection

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
03/31/2010 +089,964,337,654.53 ------------**********
04/01/2010 +004,832,827,050.45 ------------*********
04/02/2010 -000,783,098,135.53 ---
04/05/2010 +021,628,544,775.26 ------------********** Mon
04/06/2010 +000,246,106,716.91 ------------********
04/07/2010 +000,926,408,143.83 ------------********
04/08/2010 +030,863,719,709.59 ------------**********
04/09/2010 -000,215,194,285.06 ---
04/12/2010 -000,193,173,374.30 --- Mon
04/13/2010 -000,086,542,536.22 ----
04/14/2010 +000,857,281,039.39 ------------********
04/15/2010 +039,328,943,525.65 ------------**********
04/16/2010 -000,121,400,113.90 ---
04/19/2010 -017,215,897,730.16 - Mon
04/20/2010 +000,349,194,756.21 ------------********

170,382,057,196.65 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
DUer primer on National debt

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4351455&mesg_id=4351504
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
24. Alas. It is time for me to leave.
Have an easy day, all. I will check back when the day is done.

Heartfelt continued healing wishes for Tansy's dog as she recovers from the rattlesnake bite.

:hi:
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
25. dollar watch


http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?acs=NYBOT_DX&v=i

81.314 +0.265 (+0.34%)

Understanding Foreign Exchange Rollover

http://www.dailyfx.com/forex/fundamental/article/special_report/2010-04-20-1704-Understanding_Foreign_Exchange_Rollover.html

Foreign exchange rolls are often misunderstood despite their importance for every currency trader. Indeed, the interest rate differential between two currencies is not the only factor that affects overnight rolls. In fact, just like with currencies, foreign exchange rolls are affected by market conditions, supply and demand forces and many other factors.

Foreign exchange rollover, what is it?

Rollover is the interest paid or earned for holding a currency spot position overnight. Each currency has an overnight interbank interest rate associated with it, and because forex is traded in pairs, every trade involves not only 2 different currencies but also two different interest rates. However, unlike what many traders think, foreign exchange rolls are not only based on central bank rates. First of all, forex rolls are constructed using forward points which are mostly based on overnight interest rates at which banks borrow unsecured funds from other banks. After all, the foreign exchange market works over-the-counter. Market and spot trades need to be settled and rolled forward every day. If the interest rate on the currency you bought is higher than the interest rate of the currency you sold, you will earn a positive roll. If the interest rate on the currency you bought is lower than the interest rate on the currency you sold, then you will pay rollover. In addition, foreign exchange rolls also account for market conditions, supply and demand for specific currency rolls and many other factors. For instance, Japanese retail and institutional investors are famously big carry traders, and often their demand for yield is so strong, that is not unusual to see fluctuations on foreign exchange rolls between Tokyo, London and New York market sessions. Moreover, the same roll calculation rules do not necessarily apply for all currencies in the same way because some countries follow different monetary policies and exchanges rate mechanisms. For example, finding the correct roll for the Singapore dollar can be difficult as the free-floating currency's value is tied to a basket of undisclosed currencies from the country's largest trading partners.



...more...


Crude Oil, Gold May Decline as Risk Appetite Fades Ahead of US Open

http://www.dailyfx.com/forex/fundamental/daily_briefing/daily_pieces/commodities/2010-04-21-1002-Crude_Oil__Gold_May_Decline.html

Crude oil, gold and silver may decline with European shares drifting lower while US stock index futures have erased Asian session gains.

Commodities - Energy

Oil Prices May Decline as Risk Appetite Fades Ahead of US Open

Crude Oil (WTI)       $84.45       +$0.60        +0.72%

Prices have rebounded to support-turned-resistance at the lower boundary of a Rising Wedge formation set from early February. Risk trends remain an important driver of directional momentum, with the 20-day percent change correlation between crude and the MSCI World Stock Index now at 0.7. This hints that bearish momentum may be set to resume with European shares drifting lower while US stock index futures have erased Asian session gains. The landscape could look markedly different however amid another busy day of earnings releases, with top financial names including Morgan Stanley and Wells Fargo set to report first-quarter results. DOE crude inventory figures headline the economic calendar. Initial support lines up at $83.19.



Commodities - Metals

Gold, Silver Recover but Risk Trends May Favor Sellers

Gold       $1144.50       +$3.75        +0.33%

Prices have rebounded from support at $1128.71, the swing top form mid-March, recovering to re-test the outer layer of the $1144.98 – 1151.85 congestion region. The 20-day correlation with the MSCI World Stock Index remains potent at 0.87, hinting that - as with oil - the earnings calendar remains the dominant catalyst for near-term directional momentum.

Silver       $17.95       +$0.11       +0.60%

Prices are edging higher from support at the bottom of a rising channel set from the swing low in early February. Initial support lines up at $18.25. As with gold, risk trends and the earnings calendar are holding the spotlight at present.



...more...
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
28. "Punishingly High" Interest Rates Coming in Second Wave of Financial Crisis, Bianco Says

click link for video

4/21/10 "Punishingly High" Interest Rates Coming in Second Wave of Financial Crisis, Bianco Says
Posted Apr 21, 2010 07:30am EDT by Peter Gorenstein

As this week's earnings show, banks are once again printing money, lots of it; and most economists believe the recession is a thing of the past, even if jobs are still hard to come by.

Unfortunately, Jim Bianco President of Bianco Research in Chicago thinks this might be the eye of the storm rather than the dawn of a new day. "My fear is, history shows, we might have a second leg to the financial crisis in a sovereign debt crisis."

The crisis is of course already visible in Greece where yields on their 10-year government bonds just hit a record high as Europe works out a bailout package for the heavily indebted nation. Meanwhile, in Portugal - another one of Europe's so-called PIIGS - bond yields are also spiking, fueling suspicion the debt crisis may spread.

With huge federal deficits, this something the U.S. also needs to worry about. "I'm not suggesting the U.S. is on the verge of defaulting," Bianco says, but the market is already signaling it's hesitation to lend to the government. Two-year notes sold by Berkshire Hathaway Inc. in February yielded less than U.S. Treasuries of similar maturity; the same is true of paper issued by Procter & Gamble, Johnson & Johnson and Lowe's, Blooomberg reports.

As growing budget crises in states and municipalities from California to New York come to a head, Bianco fears it will be too much for the Treasury to bear. "If one of these municipalities has to borrow from they're all going to have to borrow from them, pretty much on the same day," he speculates.

If that happens, Bianco is confident you can bet on "very high, punishingly high interest rates for the economy." And that storm may cause even more damage than the first.

click link for video
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/%22punishingly-high%22-interest-rates-coming-in-second-wave-of-financial-crisis-bianco-says-471254.html?tickers=xlf,^dji,^gspc,tlt,tbt,BRK-B,PG


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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
35. GM pays back government loans from US, Canada
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100421/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gm_loans

General Motors Co. has repaid the $8.1 billion in loans it got from the U.S. and Canadian governments, a move its CEO says is a sign automaker is on the road to recovery.

GM CEO Whitacre will formally announce the loan paybacks Wednesday at the company's Fairfax Assembly Plant in Kansas City, Kansas, where he will also announce that GM is investing $257 million in that factory and the Detroit-Hamtramck plant, both of which will build the next generation of the midsize Chevrolet Malibu.

GM got a total of $52 billion from the U.S. government and $9.5 billion from the Canadian and Ontario governments as it went through bankruptcy protection last year. The U.S. considered as a loan $6.7 billion of the aid, while the Canadian governments held $1.4 billion in loans.

The U.S. government payments, made Tuesday, came five years ahead of schedule, and Whitacre said they are a sign that the automaker is on its way toward reducing government ownership of the company. The payments on the Canadian loans were also made Tuesday.

GM hopes to repay the remaining $45.3 billion to the U.S. government and $8.1 billion to Canada, money it received in exchange for large stakes in the company. The U.S. government now owns 61 percent of the company and Canada owns roughly 12 percent. GM plans to repay both with a public stock offering, perhaps later this year.

"Nobody was happy that GM needed government loans — not the governments, not the taxpayers and, quite frankly, not the company," Whitacre wrote in an op-ed article that appeared on The Wall Street Journal's Web site Tuesday night. "We believe we can best thank the citizens of the U.S. and Canada by making sure that their investments are hard at work every day, building high quality, fuel-efficient vehicles."

The factory investments in Kansas and Michigan will not create any new jobs, but will preserve jobs at both plants. The Kansas plant, which employs 3,869 workers, also builds the midsize Buick LaCrosse luxury sedan. The Detroit-Hamtramck plant, which has 1,048 employees, now builds the Cadillac DTS and Buick Lucerne large sedans and is gearing up to make the Chevrolet Volt rechargeable electric car.

During the financial crisis that led to GM filing for bankruptcy protection last year, the automaker closed 14 factories and shed more than 65,000 blue-collar jobs in the U.S. through buyouts, early retirement offers and layoffs. The company now employs about 40,000 hourly workers in the U.S.

Preserving jobs at the two GM plants won't help the nation's unemployment picture, but it won't make it worse.

Employers nationwide in March added 162,000 jobs, the most in three years. But the pace of the economic recovery and job creation won't be robust enough to quickly drive down the unemployment rate. It's been stuck at 9.7 percent for three months, close to its highest levels since the 1980s.

GM had made about $2 billion in loan payments to the U.S. government and $384 million to Canada in December and March, and had promised to repay the full loans by June. But company officials have said its cash flow, mainly from the sales of newer models, has been better than expected, allowing it to make the remaining $5.8 billion in payments early.

Repaying the loans has been a top priority for Whitacre.

GM officials say the company's public stock offering will take place when the markets and the company are ready. They will not predict how much of the remaining government debt will be repaid from the stock offering, but said it likely will take years for the governments to divest themselves fully.

The stock offering hinges on GM posting a profit, which Whitacre has said could come this year. GM lost $3.4 billion in the fourth quarter of 2009 on revenues of $32.3 billion.

After the event at the Kansas City plant on Wednesday, Whitacre is scheduled to fly to Washington, where he will meet with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other lawmakers.


$54 BILLION TO GO....ACTUALLY, GONE, WHICH WE WILL NEVER SEE AGAIN
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. GM heading toward health again is good news
at least for all the robot employees. Pretty sure they vastly outnumber the human workers by now.

Meanwhile, Motors Liquidation Company (MTLQQ.PK), the "old" GM, is up almost 15% today. People, people, I keep telling you, the bankruptcy court invented Motors Liquidation to "own" the assets abandoned by GM--Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer, etc. It is not GM, and the stock has no value.

Actually, when the "new" GM issues its IPO, I'll be interested to see what happens. Will investors inflate the price because the new GM is leaner and looking profitable? Or will they remember how badly GM and the government (and Wall Street) burned them previously? A lot of retirement accounts went *pop* when GM went into bankruptcy.
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