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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 12:19 PM
Original message
Greek parliament votes in favour of austerity measures
Source: BBC News

Greece's parliament has voted in favour of the hefty cuts and reforms proposed by the government to address the country's financial crisis.

With 172 of 300 votes in favour, one report said a second vote would have to be passed for the bill to become law.

The vote comes a day after three bank workers died in a petrol bomb attack as demonstrations over the planned austerity measures turned violent.

The finance minister said the measures were the only way to avoid bankruptcy.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8664161.stm



More riots to follow.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Protest erupts as Greece approves austerity bill
ATHENS, Greece — Tens of thousands of protesters marched through Greece's capital Thursday after lawmakers approved drastic austerity cuts needed to secure international rescue loans worth euro110 billion ($140 billion).

Demonstrators, banging drums and shouting anti-government slogans through loudspeakers, unfurled a giant black banner outside parliament. More than 30,000 demonstrators filled downtown streets, chanting "They declared war. Now fight back."

The protest followed violent street protests on Wednesday that left three people dead after a bank was firebombed.

In parliament, lawmakers voted 172-121 to approve the cuts that will slash pensions and civil servants' pay and further hike consumer taxes.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iXUJvBknZVGqsBenIusBgBvWj5WQD9FHFL2G0
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Consumer taxes, civil servant pay cuts, stolen pensions...
All regressive. Are the wealthy to go unscathed? Where's the part about punishment for those responsible for this mess?
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. shhhhh...
musn't upset the apple cart.

Seriously - if their was ever a demonstration of the Shock Doctrine in action - this is it! I think the rich will be fine, the unions will have to give in, the workers will be beset with frozen wages, lack of promised pensions and the lot for years to come. Greece will also be beholden to the IMF for years to come.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. The people go along with this and they sacrifice for years to repay banksters
Or

Greece doesn't go along with this and goes bankrupt, the people sacrifice for years to rebuild their country.

Now which one sounds like the better choice.
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Defaulting
Will cut them off from any loans needed to meet their obligations.

If the people don't get paid and they topple the government, they'll get a lifelong taste of the true meaning of austerity.

At least with the loans, they buy time for critical reforms.

It's going to be painful for the tax cheats and for the bureaucrats.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. These loans only go to repay the current bondholders(banksters)

Greece is left with no capital and have no control over their money or interest rates. Everything they save by reforming will then go to repay these loans.

By defaulting, anything they save by reforming can go to recapitalizing their country.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. And by starting over there's less chance of perpetuating the system that got them in this mess.
Think: US Savings & Loan Crisis, then US Subprime Mortgage Crisis, then whatever the next one will be.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. No - they go to cover the excess of spending over revenue
Observers like Charles Wyplosz, who point out that the adjustment being demanded of Greece is extraordinary and hard to see happening, are right. And yet .. one thing I haven’t seen pointed out sufficiently is that a debt restructuring, or even a complete cessation of debt service, wouldn’t do all that much to ease the burden.

Consider what Greece would get if it simply stopped paying any interest or principal on its debt. All it would have to do then is run a zero primary deficit — taking in as much in taxes as it spends on things other than interest on its debt. But here’s the thing: Greece is currently running a huge primary deficit — 8.5 percent of GDP in 2009. So even a complete debt default wouldn’t save Greece from the necessity of savage fiscal austerity.

It follows, then, that a debt restructuring wouldn’t help all that much — not unless you believe that getting forgiveness on much of Greece’s existing debt would make it possible to take on substantial new debt, which doesn’t seem very likely.

The point is that the only way to seriously reduce Greek pain would be to find a way to limit the costs of fiscal austerity to the Greek economy. And debt restructuring wouldn’t do that.

...

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/default-devaluation-or-what/
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Krugman is right that austerity measures will make things worse for Greece..
but he isn't telling the whole story.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. If they defaulted, they'd still have to make massive cuts
They were spending much more than they were generating, to the point where a 100% tax rate wouldn't be enough to cover current obligations.

Here's how far it went:
A clerk could work for the government, and get 14 months (not a typo) of salary a year. When he retired in his 40's-50's(!?), he would continue to be paid for 14 months of work a year. When he died, if he had any unmarried daughters, they would continue to be paid for 14 months of work a year.

So, effectively, they were paying up to 80 years of salary for 20 years of work.

Simply not tenable, bank loans or not... blaming "banksters" doesn't fix the problem where their GDP cannot cover existing obligations.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. They don't need those loans if they break with the EMU.
No bailout can save them now. They must get out from under the neo-libs reign of terror, ASAP.

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=9533
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. on to spain! goldman sachs clear cutting through europe....
spain is next to fall.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Or maybe Portugal.
But why not both? Or all? There's money to be made! Just think, we could have one or two more brand new hedge fund billionaires, and all we have to sacrifice is the unwashed masses in 2 or 3 countries.
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Time to call Soros in.
He's very good at profiting handsomely from countries in economic misery.
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. The average worker will be the ones who suffer.
The Greek government was willfully or stupidly negligant. Long before this they should have reduced spending, tighten up their tax laws and enforcement, increased taxes/revenues, and gone after evaders. Now, it's too late.

I use the analogy that the government was like a teenager going wild with a credit card. Now the bill is due and dad (EU) is making tough budget rules if he is going to pay it.

There is no easy solution here, but the blame goes to those who were responsible for the spending and revenue.


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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. Really sad.
Greece will need to tell the IMF to get lost soon or they risk a decade or more of pure economic devastation.
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