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Military Sex Assault Likened to 'Friendly Fire'

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NNN0LHI

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Wed Mar-31-04 03:42 PM
Original message

Military Sex Assault Likened to 'Friendly Fire'

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040331/us_nm/military_rights_sex_dc&cid=1896&ncid=1480

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Sexual assaults by U.S. military men against their female comrades-in-arms amount to a different kind of "friendly fire" in the Iraqi-Afghan theater, victims' advocates told members of Congress on Wednesday.

"While these friendly fire attacks leave no trail of blood, they leave many damaged souls in their wake," Scott Berkowitz, president of the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network, told a panel of women lawmakers. "They rob our country of the services of many we have trained and nurtured to protect us."

There have been 129 cases of sexual assault reported to the independent Miles Foundation in the current theater of operations -- Iraq (news - web sites), Kuwait, Afghanistan (news - web sites) and Bahrain -- but only 27 were reported to military officials, according to foundation chief Christine Hansen.

One reason victims are reluctant to tell their commanding officers is the lack of confidentiality and a blame-the-victim mentality within the military, Hansen told the Congressional Caucus for Women's Issues.

more

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arcane1

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Wed Mar-31-04 03:51 PM
Response to Original message

1. "FRIENDLY FIRE"??????

:wtf:

kind of an odd way to put it, no? Isn't so-called 'friendly fire' when you are accidentally shot by your own? Getting shot on purpose is fragging, and THAT is what these assaults should be compared to, IMHO

saying 'friendly fire' makes it sound like we just need to be more careful...

strange..

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havocmom

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Wed Mar-31-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #1

2. Absolutely what arcane1 said

Friendly fire is a mistake, poor communication, equipment failure...

Rape is deliberate. And I wish media in this nation would stop calling it assault too. That is just one more way to try and minimize the heinous thing that it is.

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DarkPhenyx

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Wed Mar-31-04 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #2

6. THey are likening the results of rape...

...to Friendly Fire. Oh, let's please not overreact to the statement.

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salin

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Wed Mar-31-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #6

8. do you think it is more like friendly fire than fragging?

one is an accident, one is intentional. Accidental rape... who knew?

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DarkPhenyx

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Wed Mar-31-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #8

9. Yes, prehaps fraggin would have been a better choice.

However all three result in destroyed lives. Jesus-fucking-christ! I can't believe that when someone is actually trying to help we feel the need to get all offended and pissy simply becasue we don't like their choice of verbage?

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salin

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Wed Mar-31-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #9

13. separate points

very good attention is being brought to the issue.

Not to detract from that point, however, is the choice of language often used to surround rape that has served for generations to lessen the reality of the assualt. Makes it easier to keep discounting it - which helps perpetuate its prevelance AND the sizeable proportion of rapes that continue to go unreported in this country - due both to shame and fear that noone will believe (or will indeed blame the victim.)

Those of us who have lived through it - or have helped others heal through the aftermath - still note the language used that continues to diminish rape... language often softer in valence than is used for physical assault. Only way to change it - is at least to call intellectual attention to the word choice so folks are more aware and thus less likely to, when discussing (or covering for news etc.), continue the language of rape as a lesser offense.

That point is not mutually exclusive from being supportive of efforts intended to help rape victims and prevent future victims.

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DarkPhenyx

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Wed Mar-31-04 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #13

14. Let me try this tact then.

As a soldier myself I can tell you that one of the few terms that gets your attention is "Friendly Fire". You understand your buddy getting killed by enemy fire. You can even accept his getting killed in a truck accident. Shit happens ya know? Friendly fire is something completely different. We have enough to worry about with everything else that can kill us w/o having to worry about your own people. Friendly fire is a violation. So is rape.

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salin

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Wed Mar-31-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #14

15. That analogy helps.

thanks. To strengthen it I would add a word or two ... doesn't change the meaning at all... but for those like I who aren't seeing it - helps hit the impact of the intended meaning...

"Friendly fire is something completely different. We have enough to worry about with everything else that can kill us w/o having to worry about {getting killed by} your own people...

Thanks for the explanation. Now understanding the context of how the phrase is used... it gets the point across quite strongly rather than diminishing.

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DarkPhenyx

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Wed Mar-31-04 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #15

16. Excellent.

I'm glad I helped. Damn, I don't get that response often.

I think I owe myself a cookie now.

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nothingshocksmeanymore

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Wed Mar-31-04 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #16

21. Having come full circle in my relationship with you to understand where

Edited on Wed Mar-31-04 06:46 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo

you are coming from...I think you simply used too few words in your first post above and were misunderstood in your intentions as a result.

here's your cookie:

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DarkPhenyx

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Wed Mar-31-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #21

22. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, cookie.

Cookie, cookie, cookie starts with "C"

*munch, munch, munch*

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Bandit

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Wed Mar-31-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #14

26. Friendly Fire is an accident ~ Rape is not

Unless you believe that Friendly Fire is not accidental then it is indeed a violation. There is bound to be many accidents when everyone carries large amounts of armament around with them all the time. Even in America there are many gun related accidents (Friendly Fire) but Rape is no Accident.

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yardwork

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Wed Mar-31-04 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #14

36. I understand what you are saying now that you have clarified.

My initial reaction to the article was the same as those above and below. Most civilians have no way of knowing that "friendly fire" is not perceived to be accidental. If the military is trying to reassure people that they are taking the problem of rape seriously, they need to know that their message is not getting across.

By abusing us for our stupidity in not understanding the jargon, you are shooting the messengers! We are here as civilians to give feedback to the writers of that article. They should be grateful, imo, to learn that their message is being misunderstood. This gives them an opportunity to correct the problem by explaining the jargon and being more detailed in their explanations.

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cally

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Wed Mar-31-04 04:08 PM
Response to Original message

3. With friends like this, who needs enemies

Fuck them. That's insane and makes rape by servicemembers seem like an accident. It's not!

If it is like 'friendly fire' (I hate that phrase) than we all need to think much more about 'friendly fire.' Are bullies and those full of themselves attacking our troops to prove their power and build their self esteem? I hate our armed services for the way they are handling the rape and sexual assault issues. I think it leads to troops attacking civilians and being too brutal in war.

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DarkPhenyx

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Wed Mar-31-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #3

11. They are the enemy?

Because they were trying to highlight the damage done by soldiers raping soldiers?

FUCK! Let's remember they weren't talking to you this time. They were talking to soldiers. This just might be something that gets through to them better. Maybe, just maybe it'll actually help. Who cares if you think they chose the same language you would have.

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cally

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Wed Mar-31-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #11

23. No, but the men who raped fellow soldiers are the enemy

of women soldiers. No question about that. Men who rape are enemies and the men and women who enable it are also. Forget the dynamics of previous discussions of rape. How do you get a unified unit of men and women where men rape women? It seems that much of the military response is to tell the women to be quiet but do you really think that any person in that unit does not know the rumors? All military personnel need to know they are respected, valued, and part of the team. Allowing rape and assault undermines the entire unit.

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DarkPhenyx

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Wed Mar-31-04 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #23

24. Which is why they are comparing it to Friendly Fire.

Please see my post above where, apparently, I did a good job of explaining it.

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cally

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Wed Mar-31-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #24

27. Ok enough

I appreciate you defending your fellow soldiers and your understanding that rape is awful.

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DarkPhenyx

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Wed Mar-31-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #27

28. And yet you still make it sound like a bad thing.

My defending my fellow soldiers and trying to explain things to people who may not understand. damn.

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cally

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Wed Mar-31-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #28

29. You misunderstood my post

I don't think defending your fellow soldiers or explaining is a bad thing. I sometimes am not sure you understand what the female soldiers think or feel but I fully admit that I don't either. My post was not intended to be insulting or anything but hoping for more understanding where we can discuss these things with respect. Sorry.

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DarkPhenyx

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Wed Mar-31-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #29

30. Sorry.

There are certain topics where I have a bit quicker trigger finger on certain topics. According to my female friends I am beter at the female part of that than any other man they know. I'm pretty comfortable about talking about the soldier part as well.

You are correct that we need more understanding and respect when it comes to these kinds of discussions. Unfortunately far too many people are willing to blame the military first and assume that anything they do is evil and intended to cover up and obscure. It grates.

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cally

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Wed Mar-31-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #30

31. Thanks

I look forward to discussing these issues with more understanding of each other. I don't automatically blame the soldiers or the military but it may seem that I do. I'm hoping for better discussions and understanding on both our parts.

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DarkPhenyx

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Wed Mar-31-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #31

32. Deal n/t

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bobbieinok

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Wed Mar-31-04 05:02 PM
Response to Original message

4. always thought soldiers depended on each other to defend against enemy

It seems that some male soldiers do not view female soldiers as part of the group to defend and be defended by.

Rape 'defense' is often 'she asked for it; she wanted it.'

Do these rapists think women become soldiers because they want to be raped or that because they are soldiers women 'ask for' (= deserve to be raped)?

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DarkPhenyx

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Wed Mar-31-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #4

12. How about none of the above?

Show me one case where a soldier says a fellow soldier asked for it and I'll conceed the point.

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RhodaGrits

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Wed Mar-31-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message

5. What??? I thought friendly fire was when your own troops were

fired on in error instead of the actual enemy target. Does that mean that if some Iraqi woman was raped it would be okay?? Sexual attack is a weapon by our forces? I am quite disturbed that this kind of message is coming for the victims' advocates - I would have expected it from the accused.

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Bandit

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Wed Mar-31-04 05:41 PM
Response to Original message

7. Friendly Fire is a term for accidental shooting ~ Rape is not accidental

We should not ever let them get away with diminishing the effects and intent of Rape. Any time there are a lot of guns around there will be accidents. Even in America where everyone is a gun expert accidents happen. We should start referring to every gun related accident in America as "Friendly Fire". Maybe every rape in America should also be called Friendly Fire. :crazy:

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ConcernedCanuk

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Wed Mar-31-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message

10. I say - girls - "Kick em in da Balls as hard as you can!"

.
.
.

Rape is a major violation in my books, to some, worse than murder: - they end up living in an emotional hell -

Rapists are right up there with Child Molesters in my book.

Send them to Jail, General Population

Let the cards fall where they may . . .

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Posinegativeman

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Wed Mar-31-04 06:23 PM
Response to Original message

17. This is not unique to the military

Same is true with police forces, 4H clubs and anywhere two or more people hang together. I don't under the subtle tone that this is a military issue alone. Maybe someone has a bone with the services or was discharged wrongly and is out to discredit the military.

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SoCalDem

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Wed Mar-31-04 06:35 PM
Response to Original message

18. Assault is assault is assault

whether it comes from a co-worker, a fellow soldier, a teacher, a priest, a parent..

It is a crime..a felony..

These crimes need to be prosecuted no matter what the "venue"..

Of course the "good ole boy" network who would rather that the "wimmin stayed in their place....in front of a stove or sink" will spin this as just another reason that they should not be in combat....but in the meantime, these cases need to be turned over to the DA in whatever place the unit is stationed, and tried as the crimes they are.

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Jacobin

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Wed Mar-31-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message

19. Oh. I see now. They were "accidental" rapes.

That explains it.

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DarkPhenyx

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Wed Mar-31-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #19

25. And you are having the same blind response to verbage...

...that others have. Please read my post above for the soldiers view.

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boobooday

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Wed Mar-31-04 06:41 PM
Response to Original message

20. Oh brother

Let's talk about the military. I was assaulted on a military base. At first the MPs were really nice, then they found out my attacker was a Jordanian citizen (I didn't know) here learning to use the weapons we were selling his country. All of a sudden, the whole thing was a hot potato.

So I was hauled back in and interrogated again, accused of being a prostitute (at the time, I was wearing a very sexy Kermit the Frog sweatshirt), and harangued until I was a quivering pile of goo (it didn't help that I was only 19 at the time).

They never had any intention of doing anything about it. I would be surprised if anything has changed. I would imagine the problem is probably twice as bad, at least, as they are letting on.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

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yardwork

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Wed Mar-31-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #20

35. I'm sorry about what happened to you

while you were in the service of our country. You were assaulted twice - once by the rapist, and again by the people who should have been there to protect you and ensure justice.

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Barkley

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Wed Mar-31-04 09:49 PM
Response to Original message

33. Are there any cases of gay sexual assault?

I bet if there were 129 cases of male-male sexual assault it wouldn't be likened to 'friendly fire'.

Our society just doesn't take female sexuality serious enough; its sort of a play thing.

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BiggJawn

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Wed Mar-31-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message

34. I dunno. I'm pretty insensitve, as clods go, and I did a double-take, too.

"Friendly Fire"? I understand how it can feel like a violation because it's NOT supposed to happen, but I think they chose their words a little carelessly.

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Voltaire99

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Thu Apr-01-04 01:27 AM
Response to Original message

37. This is what a martial culture produces. Ceaseless violence.

We should pull back from the brink of madness: quit Iraq, halve our military, close most of our international bases, lock up our mad generals--and castrate these sexual predators who hide behind uniforms.

And that's just for starters.

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