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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-03 07:36 PM
Original message
Speculation, fact hard to separate in story of Iraq's 'nuclear' tubes
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&ncid=716&e=22&u=/usatoday/20030801/ts_usatoday/11471248

President Bush has been under heavy criticism for 16 disputed words in his State of the Union address about Iraq (news - web sites)'s attempts to buy uranium in Africa. Far less attention has been paid to the next 20 words he said that night the administration's other prime piece of evidence alleging that Saddam Hussein was trying to build a nuclear bomb.

"Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production," Bush told the nation.

Bush's assertion sounded straightforward. In fact, though, it glossed over serious internal disagreements about what the tubes were for and may have been as shaky as the uranium-from-Africa charge. Interviews with administration officials, weapons experts, critics of the administration and members of Congress reveal deep doubts about the claims and emphasize the ambiguity of even the best intelligence information.

Behind the scenes, U.S. intelligence professionals disagreed strongly about why Iraq wanted the tubes. It's not unusual for intelligence experts to argue about complicated topics. But in the case of Iraq, where the evidence was ambiguous and experts were divided, the White House consistently downplayed the uncertainty and backed the interpretation most likely to support the case for war. And at crucial moments, such as the president's nationally televised speech to Congress on Jan. 28, the White House presented hotly disputed assertions as if they were indisputable fact. snip

On March 8 11 days before the war in Iraq started Mohamed ElBaradei, director of the International Atomic Energy Agency, told the Security Council that investigators had found no evidence that Iraq intended to use the tubes for any project other than rockets.

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connors Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-03 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Too many lies to keep track of!
Hey, Mr. Nowhere man please let me speak to you!
At first glance, isn't it great he admitted that he is responsible for what he said? When did he confess, and was it a heart rendering scene of contrition, or a political ploy for votes? Why did he wait until after three people in his administration alternately took the fall? What does it say about the "honor and dignity" of 43?
Rove picked the perfect timing to reduce the coverage of his dunce protege's treachery. On July 30th, as he prepares to head to his ranch in Texas for a month starting on Saturday, Rove told the boy that he had to act like a grownup and admit that he lied in his most important address to the US , and the world, his State of the Union speech. Anyway, there were no more patsies to serve up as the fall guy.
Bush rejected criticism that he had exaggerated the urgency of going to war with Iraq and also took responsibility for the first time for an assertion in his State of the Union address about Iraq's nuclear weapons program that turned out to be based on questionable intelligence.
"I take personal responsibility for everything I say, of course," Bush said. "I also take responsibility for making decisions on war and peace. And I analyzed a thorough body of intelligence, good, solid, sound intelligence that led me to come to the conclusion that it was necessary to remove Saddam Hussein from power."
Notice that even in that contrived spin he backs away from Hussein being an imminent threat, the perfidy that no one in the world community, except for Tony Blair, would agree to.
Remember another huge lie that 43's team spun about how Iraqis would be rejoicing our victory over Hussein and would call us liberators? On August 1, 2003 in Thuluya Iraq a father and brother were forced to execute an unwitting pawn of 43's purposeless blood lust, Sabah Kerbul, for the act of squealing to the US occupiers.
His father, Salem received a warning from village residents earlier this month. He insisted his son was not an informer, but he said his protests meant little to a village seething with anger. He recalled their threat was clear: Either he kill his son, or villagers would resort to tribal justice and kill the rest of his family in retaliation for Kerbul's role in a US military operation in the village in June, in which four people were killed.
Who doesn't realize that Bush's "16 words", which were based on crudely forged documents, were just the tip of the iceberg?
All of these other strands in the web of deceit have also been proven false:
1 high-strength aluminum tubes to use in processing uranium,
2 Bush presenting the discovery of two trailers in Iraq as proof that Iraq possessed banned weapons,
3 Powell embellishing upon an intercepted conversation about weapons inspections between Iraqi officials to make it sound more incriminating,
4 Powell relying on the disclosure of Iraq's pre-war unconventional weapons programs by defector Hussein Kamel, without noting that Kamel had also said that all those weapons had been destroyed,
5 43's citing of United Nations International Atomic Energy report alleging that Iraq was "six months away" from developing a nuclear weapon,
6 The dunce's lie about Iraq maintaining a growing fleet of unmanned aircraft that could be used, in Bush's words, "for missions targeting the United States",
7 The straight shooter saying that he invaded Iraq only after Saddam Hussein "wouldn't allow UN inspectors into the country".
This is a short list of mistruths, and as far as Rove is concerned, our proud Nowhere man, red state voters the Ma and Pa Kettles of the US, won't be overly disgusted with them. Pa Kettle may mumble something about that 43's team was protecting its "sources and methods".
How would they react to knowledge that "sources and methods" certainly could be exposed when 43 had a fit of pique. Two senior Bush administration officials blew the cover of a US intelligence officer, Joseph Wilson's wife, working covertly in a field of vital importance to national security. Wilson is the man
Cheney sent out to check out the phony allegations that Saddam Hussein had tried to purchase uranium for a nuclear weapons program from Niger. Wilson had to be honest when he discredited this hypocrisy. 43 had only one choice to persecute his wife, and her networks--a euphemism for people's lives.
Mr. Nowhere man, how your guy plays around with sources and methods. Recently there was a Congressional 9-11 report. To cover-up his connection with Saudi Arabia Bush said that "declassification of that part of a 900-page document would reveal sources and methods that would make it harder for us to win the war on terror". He had the nerve to say this even though the Congress is preparing to start a process that permits the declassification of information if the Senate voted to release it — even over the objections of the administration.
He won’t let us see this even though Saudi officials sought the release of the still-classified section of the report, which was denounced by the Saudi foreign minister, Prince Saud al-Faisal, as an "outrage" that "wrongly and morbidly" accused Saudi Arabia of complicity in the attacks.
I’d hate to be anyone in the U.S. who had any relations with Saudi Arabians. Guess who has such a relationship, not only with peripheral Saudis but with one who is bin laden’s brother in law, as well as bagman, Khalid bin Mahfouz -- perhaps better known as "Osama bin Laden's bagman" or even "Osama bin Laden's brother-in-law. Hey, did you know that when Bush's maladroit business skills were about to sink one of his companies, Harken Energy, the firm was saved by a $25 million investment from a Swiss bank -- a subsidiary of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, partly owned by the beneficent Mahfouz.
Dear Mr. Nowhere who does have a connection here? No one other Thomas Kean. Who is he other than Kissinger's 9-11 Investigation replacement! 43’s motives are always disreputable, so how can we trust this Iraq 2 to be anything other than a money making bonanza for 43 and his soul-mates. 43 rewards flunkies who have passed him money through, an impossible to estimate, number of money laundering schemes.
Would Ma and Pa Kettle be proud that more than 50 times, Rumsfeld was approached with mission plans likely to leave at least 30 innocent people vaporized and mutilated by unstoppable high-tech weaponry crashing down on them without warning, without the slightest chance of escape. More than 50 times, Rumsfeld signed his name to these multiple death-warrants.
What about the Greek Lawyers suing Blair over war. Top lawyers from Greece are filing a lawsuit with the International Criminal Court (ICC) in the Hague on August 4th against senior UK officials for allegedly breaching international law by attacking Iraq. The Greek lawyers say they have compiled a dossier against the officials, including more than 20 alleged war crimes including the killing of Iraqi civilians, depriving the population of drinking water in cities such as Basra, the destruction of food supplies and the bombardment of residential areas, breach the statute of the International Criminal Court.
Why not a similar case against US President George W Bush? 43’s isolationist approach toward the world proved lucky this one time. The United States had not ratified the treaty setting up the International Criminal Court and is therefore outside its jurisdiction.
I can hear Pa Kettle saying at least that fine boy brought to victory in Afghanistan! He’ll do the same in Iraq. In an Afghan News article, “US-led forces kill up to 24 people who attacked a coalition convoy”, of July 21, 2003 this quote, “Some 19 months after the fall of the hardline Taliban regime, an 11,500 strong US-led coalition is pursuing members of the militia and its al-Qaeda allies who continue to launch attacks, mainly in the southeastern border region”, belies 43’s assertion that he won in Afghanistan. He calls anything he wants a victory, even though any objective analysis disagrees with him.
So, by wasting our resources and money in Iraq he is letting the Afghanistan Taliban regime run wild again. al-Qaeda is regaining its foothold there detract from his “everlasting war on terrorism”.
Ma and Pa Kettle never read the Washington Post or the NY or LA Times as they are commie, pinko rags. They get their news from FOX, where no US soldier dies, and where “collateral damage” is unheard of.
Besides most of our Ma and Pa Kettles are not even paying any attention at all to this, and even if they were they'd think that the country’s leaders always have to play their cards close to its chest.
43 said he was making us more secure from terrorist threats. "The administration wasn't matching its deeds to its words in the war on terrorism," Rand Beers, a former special assistant to the president, told the Washington Post in an interview published June 16th 2003. After working at the National Security Council for 35 years, under presidents Ronald Reagan, George Bush and Bill Clinton, Beers, 60, had been the main counter-terrorism advisor until his resignation in March of 2003.
Mr. Nowhere man this is a deck of cards, a tangled web of deceit. Can’t you remember the choreographed scene? 41‘s boy , who did the Commander-in-Chief routine, dressing up in a Top Gun outfit for an unnecessary jet flight to an aircraft carrier, USS Abraham Lincoln, on May 1 to declare victory over Iraq? The USS Abraham Lincoln emblazoned the sign "Mission Accomplished" for this photo opportunity so that he could make it clear to everyone that he was responsible for everything about the Iraq war.
He can't do the Commander-in-Chief routine--showing off for votes, without admitting he alone is responsible for his lies, about Iraq and Afghanistan! Does he not necessarily have to be where the buck stops, and that is a horrible place.
The sad thing is that we have our young men and women, as well as Iraqi defenseless citizens, collateral damage, dying daily in the terrible Iraqi occupation. This sequel to "Shock and Awe" , for all that is good and decent in the world, doesn't look like a victory. The fool's swore that they had to protect "sources and methods", but when they became enraged at Wilson for being honest, they ignored that and blew the cover of a US intelligence officer working covertly. The Congressional report Sept. 11 had 28 redacted pages about Saudi Arabia's link to bin Laden's terrorists. 43's team doesn't want this information released even though both parties want the public to have access to it. WHY? He is too tightly involved with Saudi Arabian's, including Osama bin Laden's brother-in-law. His team has control of the 9-11 Investigation, with 43's business partner Thomas Kean being named as its head.
Mr. Nowhere Man, Ma and Pa Kettle, please listen. Rove is counting on your ignorance, your votes. The world knows that 43 is a liar, a criminal, a multiple duplicitous charlatan, and the Greek lawyers would include him with Blair, if they only could!
b. connors
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indictrichardperle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-03 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. thats sugar coating it considerably
The aluminum tubes fraud was debunked immediately. IIRC....aluminum tubes needed for Nuclear weapons have to be extremely fine(physicist/machinist-specially made) or they wont work properly. These tubes were immediately identified as run of the mill crude tubes for conventional weapons.

LIES, LIES, LIES.
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-03 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Headline"Rove speaks directly to two scurrilous reporters!!
Make the aluminum tube stuff appear MURKY!!"

How many times do we have to go over this?? NO ONE who actually examined the tubes says they were for producing nuclear weapons!!

NO DOUBTS, JUST FACTS.
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