Calculating the Politics Of Catastrophe | NYT

Calculating the Politics Of Catastrophe
By DAVID E. SANGER

Published: May 2, 2004

WASHINGTON — It is the nightmarish, unpredictable event that both the Bush and Kerry campaigns obsess about in private, yet rarely discuss in public. How would another terror attack before the presidential election, even one that proves a pale shadow of Sept. 11, affect the way voters view the president or his challenger?

It is an unanswerable question, of course, which naturally makes it ripe for endless Washington dinner-party talk. It is probably too speculative for serious polling. Yet that does not mean the planning has not started. Mr. Bush has begun to talk about the possibility in public, perhaps to brace the country for the worst, perhaps to begin the political inoculation if domestic defenses fail.

Asked at a newspaper editors' convention here 10 days ago about surveys showing that two-thirds of Americans believe terror will strike the United States in the near future, he said: ''Well, I can understand why they think they're going to get hit again. They saw what happened in Madrid.'' And on Thursday, emerging from his interview with the 9/11 commission, he was asked whether he could now assure Americans that no Al Qaeda members were plotting in the United States.

More at the New York Times

...they're damn sure gonna hit us now.

After seeing those torture photos, I don't even know if it's accurate to call Islamic attacks againt the US "terrorism" any more.

I don't even know if it's accurate to call Islamic attacks againt the US "terrorism" any more.

Nobody is supporting those torture photos and at least some of those responsible are going to go to prison - but this may be the most offensive comment I have ever read on this forum and I have read many offensive comments.

You're saying that humiliated Iraqi prisoners justify the murder of 3000 American civilians? Your comments offend human dignity.

You're saying that humiliated Iraqi prisoners justify the murder of 3000 American civilians? Your comments offend human dignity.

Does the torture of Iraqi prisoners (as well as the U.S.'s continued human rights abuses in Guantanamo Bay) "justify" the 9/11 attacks? No. But in light of U.S. abuses of human rights, we don't exactly have the moral authority to speak of "human dignity" anymore. Thats the problem.

We may not have the right to speak of moral dignity, but targeting civilians is always terrorism.

And 1. How can this activity by Lynndie England and her fellow criminals not be called terrorism by the Arab World ?

And 2. While you're at it, explain how 3000 people dead have anything to do with IRAQ-NAM ?

When did I ever excuse the torture of Iraqi prisoners? The poster I replied to said that this legitimizes Islamist terrorism. I think THAT sentiment is profoundly offensive, not the very legitimate expressions of horror over what was done at Abu Ghraib.

are completely unrelated to the torture, rape and murder of Iraqi prisoners. Future attacks will, however, be fueled by hatred of the US over many aspects of the invasion of Iraq.

Q: Is Iraq linked with Al-Qaeda?
Bush: "We have no evidence of that."

The only Americans who justified the attacks were Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. "Gods revenge on immoral New Yorkers".

So I find it completely unbelievable when posters justify Islamist terrorism with US behavior in Iraq.

w/r/t your other point, I agree, those photos are going to add to the hatred of the US. of course.

another LIHOP or MIHOP that they already have in the works. If it does happen there's no way I'm not going to believe that Bush was behind it.

I would hope the press would be much more on top of such a scenario in the near future given what the 9/11 Commission has uncovered (and a lot more info not addressed by the commission but widely known in some circles).

Michael Ignatieff writes:

"Once the zones of devastation were cordoned off, we might find ourselves, in short order, living in a national-security state on continuous alert, with sealed borders, constant identity checks and permanent detention camps for dissidents and aliens. Our constitutional rights might disappear from our courts while torture might reappear in our interrogation cells".

He is saying that one more attack will bring the 228- year history of the American republic to an end, replaced by a military dictatorship.

,...perhaps straight from the roots of the grapevine, yes?

Personally, there are the little moments when I wonder if we deserve it. But I guess there were those in nazi germany who wondered the same thing.

was on with Christopher Hitchens supporting Bush's policies. I don't think I could read what he said after seeing him on that panel. It was on C-Span last weekend. I don't know that he is as bad as Hitchens but he was pretty close.

Is he preparing us for Nazi Germany here with these comments?

Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:


EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.

http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon6.html

Is there infrastructure that could actually handle all of this?

Surly none of the participants, then who would have them to release?
Someone who wanted to provoke more violence, perhaps on US soil?

The driving force in Bush's foreign policy over the past few months has been to provoke the Arab world to its outer limit. Despite what the article implies there was a US poll after the Spanish election that showed a substantial majority of Americans would be more likely to vote for Chimp if there were another attack on US soil. I'll look for a link later when I have some time. But it is sort of like the old joke, "beat me because it feels so good when you stop."

There is hardly a person here who doesn't doubt there will be another LIHOP before the election. What is so frustrating is that there is absolutely nothing any of us can do to prevent it.

....is it known?

Where did they get the photos? When did they get the photos? Why did they chose to air them? They are highly imflammatory, degrading and enraging. Turn to tables. If our soldiers were being held prisoner and someone released these photos this country would be going ballistic.

why THEY think they're going to get hit again....
Not US? I thought it was US and THEM. Or is it HIM against US?
Where the hell is HE going to be, when we, the THEM, get hit again??

btw .. I'm totally sure this would all move along smoothly without any hitches, right? /sarcasm

Chaos. How is he going to finance his WWIII when the taxpayer's country is in a state of CHAOS?

This is either BULLSHIT propaganda or a hint of things to come.

Either way, it proves the neo-cons are Clinically Insane, once again.