Army Unit's Hometown Appalled by Photos

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/prisoner_abuse_hometown

CUMBERLAND, Md. - The rumors started in January, two months after the Army Reserve's 372nd Military Police Company was put in charge of Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

The Army unit, a source of pride for the western Maryland city of Cumberland, had been honored with rallies before it left for Iraq (news - web sites), and photos of its members were posted at Wal-Mart and inside a local courthouse.

But family members who feared an erosion of support for the unit kept mum, even after news that Iraqi prisoners had been abused by their Army captors started trickling in from their loved ones overseas.

"I had gotten a telephone call from my son stating that there was something going down," said Aleta Fogle of Cresaptown. Her son, Spc. Robert Weaver, assured her he was not involved, she said.

...in the head first. This is not a community that created monsters. The monsters were in charge, but they did get others to do their dirty work for them. The faces in those photos reveal plenty.

The Units replacing it will be honored by the Grateful Liberated Citizens of IRAQ-NAM by having PRG's shot at them

These are your sons and daughters.

Interesting that you all decided to keep your mouths shut. I think I see where the self-centered cowardice originates.

the reason why I say this is... we are all capable of this horror...

Think about it.

Now it is our turn though to do what in some ways they could not or would not... bear witness and demand action.

Here is something else for you to chew on... those in charge knew that the first troops to be turned into monsters should come from small towns. This is a pattern that Jay Lifton found for WW II, and the SS. Small towns usually equal a level of innoncence, naivete and lack of world kknowledge that helps...

Oh and before you say it... I am not justifying it. Just telling you where this is coming from

The fact that 99.999% or better don't practice this type of behavior is the reason it such a big deal. I feel ashamed the place I live has to be drawn through the mud with this type of shame. I have a person whom I can blame but never absolve my self from the fact that it happened and may be still happening somewhere.

You are sure to go to freeperville to find some that approve there. Its no doubt that the CIA took advantage of the situation a little, but unless you are willing to take responsibility and blame for this why do you defend. Considering it is the country you preside in (I assume) then you are in the same boat with the rest of US. So is your plead also ignorance?

We all need to stand up, because this cannot go on my Friend.

,...it's an awful thing to imagine.

I would be crushed.

Just like some feel the need to deal out collective punishment, we can feel the need to gather ourselves and take collective responsibility. I can not blame anybodies parents anymore than myself not being able do all I could possibly to not go contribute to any of it.

Some of the biggest pricks I ever met were the Drill Sergent's in the military, and I thank them for that. Learning responsibility can become like a religion. I have also met plenty of dedicated military people and other wise that seem not to have a clue. They have been conditioned and trained like Pavlov's dogs.

Responsibility means nothing if you don't know why you are doing it. This why I say we all need to stand up, if we don't others will stand between us and take what does not belong to them, and it all starts with our dignity.

,...in Gulf I,...and individual responsibility was so important, as well as honor and honesty and loyality to their community. If I am going to condemn anyone,...it is those who fail to demonstrate the kind of honor and honesty and loyalty that they demand of others in order to fulfill an evil agenda.

Your points have merit and are well-taken.

And,...tell us of the aftermath.

Was it easy?

I don't follow.

YOUR point is *very* well-taken.

Touché.

I never intended to do it either, but it happened none the less.(that's if your definition going beyond your duty, to do what correct, moral and legal) I don't fault them either. I fault myself for not being ready for the onslaught and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It all can get to be a real problem when you find everybody is against you for one reason or another. I think what we have going on in Iraq is like a real bad scene multiplied many thousands of times, and no one is standing up and taking charge of the situation.

The people will need to protect the soldiers like the soldiers were sworn to do for us. Some of these folks that have their ass out in the wind for what is going on can be quite vicious. Jack did a fair to good job portraying one of them in "A few good men". By and large it's a mindset that you must go around, you will never win butting heads with them.

In small communities (not necessarily villages, but enclaves in larger cities which are socially/culturally isolated, by chance or design), people tend to worry more about what others think of them, and anyone who doesn't "close ranks" when there's a problem can be ostracized. Especially if they are perceived as confiding their doubts to outsiders.

You can bet that the soldiers and family members who talked about this are not going to be universally cheered in their hometown.

People know some really bad stuff is happening....

..in fact, probably alot of people know it.

But they keep silent. A conspiracy of silence.

Well, isnt THAT special !

I do not believe that statement.

...take a look at Crawford.

This is America's problem. Cumberland is no different than thousands of small cities in America.

excusing the soldiers' actions?

When people go into the military they musn't put their sense of right and wrong away; fortunately someone stood up.

I feel very sad for the moms and dads.

At least this will highlight the responsibility of (overpaid) mercenaries in this profoundly ugly war that is degrading all of us.

Of course going into the military requires a person to put his/her sense of right and wrong away. You go there TO KILL PEOPLE. Killing is wrong, and 99.9% of people will agree with that under normal conditions. However, when you go into the military you are taught that killing people is now your duty, because the enemy is evil, inhuman, and for these reasons deserves to die. The only way most people will kill is if the moral prohibition against it is overridden. It's no surprise that people act like these soldiers did, they have been thoroughly trained to that mindset.

I was a pacifist,....until my son was born.

The problem, in my humble view, is that,...those who have basically signed the dotted line (for whatever reason) which sacrifices their souls to a leadership that is supposed to do the RIGHT THING,...are being so used and abused, with little choice other than serve time in prison (by opposing the leadership) or hold unto the "hope" that their participation is still somehow noble and good or buy into a human evil which will justify their inhumane actions.

If anyone "pretends" such things are somehow easy, cut-n-dry decisions,...they are selling out every bit as bad, if not worse, on their capacity for compassion and understanding and freedom and democracy and hope and value of humanity.

From the article: As weeks went by, the talk grew shocking. But the families said nothing until last week, when CBS broadcast evidence of prisoner abuse on "60 Minutes II."

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So isn't that something close to a conspiracy (in legal sense)? Suggests to me that some families knew what was going on, but did nothing about it. There may not be an applicable law, but certainly a moral issue in remaining quiet.

Not were they in any position to act on it in the first place.

If the chatter was like that, and 'my' 20-something child was remotely involved, I'd be making phone calls. Lawyer at least, Generals, Congress-people and media at best.

Of course, I'm not in their shoes, by far (and vice versa).

Edit: Oops! I missed the "actionable intelligence" pun. Left the room, pop'd a beer, and it hit me.

Just a big secret, huh? Fucking hypocrites.

LOVERRRLY!

The Forth Reich will need much more dress-right-dress from their Corporate pimp

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dragged this old bag of lies out again? You are way behind the times. good grief. Should have him tombstoned just for being stupid.

,...and way, way too much testosterone and emotion pumping which has obviously SHUT DOWN any capacity to be something "above" any animal let alone actually exercise a thinking brain.

You totally gross me out.

of his anger at how these kids had been so poorly led. This was on Lehrer NewsHour tonight. He did not diminish their personal responsibility but he also lay blame on those who are now wringing their hands at the few bad apples and etc. e.g. Kapinsky and Meyer. He was angry and effective.The discussion with Ray Suarez and two others was excellent. The Arab jounalist made it clear that this is now an hitherto unimaginable nadir in American/ Arab - Muslim relations.

To Continue this Facade will be even more humiliating for him

Call a press Con, Apologize to Iraq and the rest of the World, then promise help if asked by the Iraqi Govt, then resign , lock , stock, and secretary.

For Americas Sake and His Sake, he must take this easy way out. He can look good going out like a MAN.